What does it mean to be your gender?
It is tempting to not define gender, because most definitions I've read rely on stereotypes, but it definitely seems like we are striving for something that is incongruous with our birth sex. To show you what I mean, many of my preferences such as empathy over competition, beauty over strength, the emotional world over the physical world, harmony over prominence, ect..., could be seen as female, but I think most individuals would argue that a feminine male could have the same valuations. Thus, my theory is that the only distinguishing preference between genders, that makes has meaning in the western world, is an individual's preferred body. The fact I wish my body was female, makes me female.
This theory is still in it's nascent stage, so I would love to hear how all of you would answer this question. It helps me to think about these types of things, because viewing being transgender as a inseparable part of myself, rather than something that can be removed, was what finally dissipated the vestiges of my transphobia. I can now see we are already born who we are, and life is just a realization of ourselves.
Gender is like art or porn. I can't define it really, but I know it when I see it. We all have different opinions, but there are some general themes too. Gender is in large part an act I think. Why else call it a role?
I just stopped being fake. The "act" got to be too much of an effort.
It's qualia, like trying to explain what the color red is. I can make allusions to red things or scientific descriptions of what red is, but I cannot convey the experience. Your red may be vastly different than mine, but without the ability to directly convey experiences, we cannot know. Likewise, I cannot say if my experience of my gender identity is in any way similar to anyone else's. I just have to trust my assessment of my own experiences, and live my life accordingly.
I think being your gender is just being yourself. Kinda like how Jill put it. And once you do that, you are also being your gender. That's how I see it.
To be the gender I was born as is to be inhibited, to feel ashamed of some aspects of my body and psyche, to be treated in a way that doesn't match my natural inclinations, to be revolted by my own body shapes, to reject the roles given, reject biological imperatives and have a closer relationship with one's death-drive than zest for life, etc. and none of it all that consciously. It's been happening since I was 6 years old and incapable of adopting or understanding roles.
It's to be one type of animal lumped together with the wrong type in the wrong cage. Just leads to problems of the mind and body in the one who is being mis-treated.
Wishing is one thing, if you are capable of living life almost entirely in an hermetically-sealed world of your brain and are immune to being taunted or attacked or treated in a way that makes you feel bad, then congrats. You probably reached the pinnacle of mental mastery and want for nothing. Personally I am quite detached from my body so I'm not that far off living in such a world, but even so, I still inhabit the everyday world, mirrors still exist which I have to look into and have them bother me, and people still treat me in a way that really kinda pisses me off. I don't choose to have it piss me off, it just does. Identity and motivation are very important to humans on the whole, so these do tend to remain big problems when you can't shut the rest of the world out.
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on December 14, 2015, 08:55:13 PM
To be the gender I was born as is to be inhibited, to feel ashamed of some aspects of my body and psyche, to be treated in a way that doesn't match my natural inclinations, to be revolted by my own body shapes, to reject the roles given, reject biological imperatives and have a closer relationship with one's death-drive than zest for life, etc. and none of it all that consciously. It's been happening since I was 6 years old and incapable of adopting or understanding roles.
It's to be one type of animal lumped together with the wrong type in the wrong cage. Naturally it leads to problems of the mind and body.
This is reality, man. This is what it
really means to be your gender. To be yourself. This is some down-to-earth talk right here. The truth, man. I can't even say anything in addition to what you said here. This is tragic to me but at the same time, you bein' real and I respect that, a whole lot.
Quote from: Tamika Olivia on December 14, 2015, 05:54:43 PM
It's qualia, like trying to explain what the color red is. I can make allusions to red things or scientific descriptions of what red is, but I cannot convey the experience. Your red may be vastly different than mine, but without the ability to directly convey experiences, we cannot know. Likewise, I cannot say if my experience of my gender identity is in any way similar to anyone else's. I just have to trust my assessment of my own experiences, and live my life accordingly.
Thanks for describing it in this way! I used to absolutely love the literature on qualia and consciousness in general (my interests have since changed a bit). But I think you're absolutely right to offer this line of explanation of why it's so hard to get at the qualitative "what it's like" of being a certain gender.
For Me Gender expression makes all the difference to the way I feel about Myself .Before I started Transition I had a profound hatred for Mirrors I would avoid them like the plague .the only time I ever looked in a mirror by choice was whenever I was cross dressed .I suddenly felt at peace and was able to relax and enjoy life .I had always hated being around People because I was always having to think about everything I said (was this an appropriate view for a Bloke URRR) I always dressed to try to be invisible hid away in corners at family gatherings always afraid to be Myself .But now I am just ME and happy to express Myself as I want to .Mirrors are now My best friends as I love how I look now and they help Me look the way I want to look instead of showing that totally alien being I saw for 59 Years .I for one could never go back to being that horrible unhappy creature that I used to be .I know the caterpillar to butterfly is overused but that is precisely how I feel about my life suddenly I can fly ,have friends,I now can talk to people without feeling afraid . For Me Gender is everything being Feminine is Me its who I am
Interesting discussion. Yes, the whole idea of gender squeezes thoughts into binary thinking: male or female, masculine or feminine. And the real world isn't binary.
For me, being my gender would mean being free from the binary restrictions imposed by society. My dysphoria is mostly associated with those restrictions, especially around clothing. I'd like to wear a skirt. That's not allowed. I'd like to wear bright colours and flowery patterns. That's not allowed. Instead, I am required to wear the drab crap that passes for men's clothing. It's not only clothing, of course. I cry at movies. That's not allowed.
Being my own gender would mean throwing off all those restrictions, without acquiring new ones. It I were to transition, I wouldn't want anyone saying "That's not allowed. " if I wanted to fix my car or split a stack of firewood.
Thank you everyone for responding! :)
It seems the consensus is that being your gender is the way you are naturally inclined to act, in relation to society's definition of gender. I think that is very good answer. I was wondering though, what makes us transgender? How similar can someone be to you, before they cross that threshold?
As far gender being qualia, I agree, but we are forced to define what we are experiencing in relation to environment, in order to know how we should act upon it.
Quote from: autumn08 on December 15, 2015, 11:54:04 AM
I was wondering though, what makes us transgender? How similar can someone be to you, before they cross that threshold?
I'm not sure anyone has a factual answer to this. I think the question you are asking here is opinion-based, imo. What's true to me may not be true to you and vice versa.
I believe what makes us transgender is simply that we don't "follow the rules," so to speak, that has been laid out for us to obey according to our biological makeup. Its not cause we necessarily choose to. Its cause this is how we are. Its natural for us to live in a way that goes up against the roles set to appease our chromosomal selves yet they really do not, but instead appease our internal selves or gender, the very thing people cannot see.
I mean, the majority of people who disagree with us being this way, often quote random stuff from the Bible to support their claims. But one thing they never talk about is how in the Bible it says we can't just go by everything we see. Seeing is
not believing....
Quote from: King Phoenix on December 16, 2015, 09:59:39 AM
I'm not sure anyone has a factual answer to this. I think the question you are asking here is opinion-based, imo. What's true to me may not be true to you and vice versa.
I believe what makes us transgender is simply that we don't "follow the rules," so to speak, that has been laid out for us to obey according to our biological makeup. Its not cause we necessarily choose to. Its cause this is how we they really do not, but instead appease our internal selves or gender, the very thing people cannot see.
are. Its natural for us to live in a way that goes up against the roles set to appease our chromosomal selves yet
Well stated. I think Gender speaks to many things, from societal to our own understanding of ourselves. Since it is not rigid and varies even within our own culture (by location, sub-culture etc.), we are often the ones stretching or breaking those rules.
Often of course, people try to wrongly over-simplify gender. Associating it with sexual preference is a good example.
Quote from: RobynD on December 16, 2015, 11:00:56 AM
Well stated. I think Gender speaks to many things, from societal to our own understanding of ourselves. Since it is not rigid and varies even within our own culture (by location, sub-culture etc.), we are often the ones stretching or breaking those rules.
Often of course, people try to wrongly over-simplify gender. Associating it with sexual preference is a good example.
Yeah. I totally think so too. Culture plays a tremendous role in shaping what gender means for a certain group of people. Sadly, culture often times do not take "exceptions" like us into consideration. Not to insult nobody, but I think most culture is quite exclusive, wouldn't you say? If it weren't, then the lgbt status would never be as frowned upon as it is today.
And I confess that I am very guilty of continuously associating sexual preference/orientation with gender. I guess when its been hammered down into my skull from social conditioning/peer pressure and other forms of societal influences, kinda hard for me to permanently separate the two. I am guilty of bringing up the very fact that I am romantically and sexually only attracted to women even though I may only want to discuss my gender identity and expression.Yeah, its a bad (and ignorant) habit of mine. But I think like any other bad habit, it can be dropped like a sack of hammers. Just'll take lots of time and effort on my part. :)
Quote from: King Phoenix on December 16, 2015, 09:59:39 AM
I'm not sure anyone has a factual answer to this. I think the question you are asking here is opinion-based, imo. What's true to me may not be true to you and vice versa.
I believe what makes us transgender is simply that we don't "follow the rules," so to speak, that has been laid out for us to obey according to our biological makeup. Its not cause we necessarily choose to. Its cause this is how we are. Its natural for us to live in a way that goes up against the roles set to appease our chromosomal selves yet they really do not, but instead appease our internal selves or gender, the very thing people cannot see.
I mean, the majority of people who disagree with us being this way, often quote random stuff from the Bible to support their claims. But one thing they never talk about is how in the Bible it says we can't just go by everything we see. Seeing is not believing....
I agree with Robyn; this was very well stated. Also, I agree Robyn, all definitions of gender require us to look at gender through the perspective of culture, but I wondering if there was a way to define gender outside of culture's view of gender, or define being transgender, as Phoenix did, as being in opposition to culture's view of gender.
I think the common thread outside of culture, would be that we would want to be the opposite sex, as different sexes would exist regardless of the culture and would provide a basis for our opposition.
Quote from: autumn08 on December 16, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
I agree with Robyn; this was very well stated. Also, I agree Robyn, all definitions of gender require us to look at gender through the perspective of culture, but I wondering if there was a way to define gender outside of culture's view of gender, or define being transgender, as Phoenix did, as being in opposition to culture's view of gender.
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but are you perhaps suggesting that our definition of gender should be its own stand-alone term separate from society's version of it? If so, this makes lots of sense to me. I say that, cause, let's be real ya'll, society lines up gender and chromosomal biological sex as one entity. We know that this is straight bs, right? On the contrary, in society's view, even under the influence of HRT and advancements of SRS/GRS, we won't ever be cisgender or biologically-born (insert gender here). So, if that's the case, I feel as though we simply cannot follow society's guidelines as to "what it means to be your gender." I think you are so right. I believe we must define this for ourselves. To try and go by society's view of it would be to drive oneself mad. How can we go about defining this, I think is simply up to our own selves to decide. What gender means to you may mean something completely different to another trans person on the other side of the equator from you and I. This is something we learn along the way. I don't think there is a "how" to define gender for ourselves. Its an innate sense we get for ourselves. I think gender is too individualistic for us to know as a collective on just
how to define it. I am sure some examples can be given, however, everyone is so vastly different that no example alone could apply to us all. You know? For example, I was able to define gender by being honest about myself no matter what society says is right and wrong for the gender roles I
should follow according to my external self, based only on the fragility of unsupported morality and religion, for the most part. But, as I said previously, this is only an example. You have to decide for yourself just how exactly you must define gender.
Quote from: autumn08 on December 16, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
I think the common thread outside of culture, would be that we would want to be the opposite sex, as different sexes would exist regardless of the culture and would provide a basis for our opposition.
I believe you are right here also, Autumn. I hate to be the bearer of bad news and you may already have come to this conclusion from within your deep contemplation on a serious subject such as this, but I honestly see culture as a means for the higher ups to take control of people's lives where ever
they see an opportunity to do so. Am I saying culture in and of itself is a bad thing? No, I'm not. However, people have the power to take whatever it is they want and use it to their advantage which could be another's disadvantage or vice versa. People have a power to capitalize on other people with domination and control through things like gender roles. Its sad but true.
Peace.
That is how I could best describe it. No more constant battling myself. Just pure unadulterated peace.
I don't feel like I have a gender. When I'm not with other people, I'm just me and gender doesn't matter.
That doesn't mean I don't do stuff that people assign a gender to, or act in ways that get assigned one gender or the other. And in real life, I sometimes have to restrict what I do or present to avoid other people getting confused about what gender to pigeonhole me as and getting unpleasantly weird.
I would say that the past ten years have been, for me, a process of letting that "being me" out, piece by piece, and verifying for each piece that nothing awful happens when I do. Since I'm (mostly) gendered male, the stuff I have had to hide and am now letting out is mostly stuff that gets tagged "female" or "feminine" by the crazy world I live in.
So maybe "being my gender" really means just not hiding huge chunks of myself.
^ I get that. I also do not require a gender on the most fundamental mental level, kind of like how we don't need to refer to ourselves by name in our own head because it is already completely understood by the brain that we are we and everything that is not us is other and on the outside. It needs no words or pigeon holes.
However when it comes to the body there is also an unspoken understanding about what is incorrect or "wrong about it". I don't really need to identify male specifically to say that I want no breasts, or want a penis, etc. Those could simply be things that 'fit' what my brain is wired for, and 'maleness' need not necessarily enter the mental reality. Outside of my brain though, I need words to communicate this problem, and "maleness" - though a crude appraisal - is a term closest to what the brain is comfortable with. It's a huge generalization but we're forced to make them when dealing with the clunkiness of today's medical systems and therapy. . .
Thank you Phoenix, Kate, Asche and T.K.G.W. for your excellent responses. I agree with what all four of you were saying, that gender is subjective, and before accepting myself, I shared Asche's and T.K.G.W.'s feeling of not having a gender.
The reason I designate my gender as female now, is because it is where I fit in my cross-cultural definition of gender. As Phoenix said, "To try and go by society's view of it would be to drive oneself mad," so defining gender in the inclusive form I conceived, is what finally made where I belong manifest. If you want a male body, you are male. If you want a female body, you are female. If you want neither sex's body, you are neither gender.
It's a strange one for me, really, but it's sort of hard to explain. ???
Like, over time, behaviours and expressions and emotions have been generally categorised as masculine and feminine. Unfortunately part of this split comes from the patriarchy wishing to re-assert its position of dominance over women with each generation. Much as I don't like masculine categorised things, some of them are quite useful!! :P
The bad thing comes from the fact that men have a tendency to keep the good stuff and apply an inferior status to anything seen as feminine; for example a nail technician is as valid as a science technician but tends to be given a lower status.
And, as has happened in my life, biological sex doesn't necessarily matter when it comes to how these gendered behaviours are acted out and seen. :( Feminine men are generally treated like dirt. But different dirt to the girls? If I'm a ball of fluff then they're mud on the carpet!!!! However, feminine as may be, they still have elements of male privilege - still masters of their own destinies. Should they decide to give it all up and buy lumberjack shirts they'd be welcomed back into the bro's club, maybe?!?
But whatever, I see gender as a complete social construct, most of which favours the masculine. Which is different to sex, the physical aspects. I want to change those because some aren't right - which is why, I suppose, I'd be a transsexual. I'm not that interested in gender and would be much happier if we forgot about it entirely and did what we wanted - boys and girls free to be builders or hairdressers or whatever they wanted to be. Equal status for sex and gendered activities ;)
As for me - it just won't feel right until I look right, which isn't much to do with behaviour really xx
Quote from: autumn08 on December 16, 2015, 07:51:09 PM
If you want a male body, you are male. If you want a female body, you are female. If you want neither sex's body, you are neither gender.
Indeed. That is so. :)
Just one question though (and forgive me if I sound ignorant asking this); if someone wants a female and male body, that would designate them as bigender, correct?
I haven't ran into anyone on here like that yet. So sometimes I honestly forget such a status does exist. Its not because I don't care (but I do care) or am indifferent. But I guess because I don't see this get discussed much, if at all here. I wonder how those type of transgender people navigate such a controlling dynamic of classification as gender. ???
Quote from: Missy D on December 17, 2015, 01:30:29 AM
I'm not that interested in gender and would be much happier if we forgot about it entirely and did what we wanted - boys and girls free to be builders or hairdressers or whatever they wanted to be. Equal status for sex and gendered activities ;)
I hope I live to see this day...I can't wait for that to come to fruition and become reality for us all. :) That's a true vision of peace and fulfillment.
Quote from: King Phoenix on December 17, 2015, 04:29:10 PM
Just one question though (and forgive me if I sound ignorant asking this); if someone wants a female and male body, that would designate them as bigender, correct?=
Is that state not usually classed under non-binary?
I mean mixing the binary stops it being binary... it makes it... a swirl...? lol
Quote from: King Phoenix on December 17, 2015, 04:29:10 PM
Just one question though (and forgive me if I sound ignorant asking this); if someone wants a female and male body, that would designate them as bigender, correct?
I haven't ran into anyone on here like that yet. So sometimes I honestly forget such a status does exist. Its not because I don't care (but I do care) or am indifferent. But I guess because I don't see this get discussed much, if at all here. I wonder how those type of transgender people navigate such a controlling dynamic of classification as gender. ???
That is a very interesting topic. I think they feel cis gender at times, and transgender at other times, but I'm not sure. If there any bigender individuals here, I would also love to know how you navigate acting upon your gender.