First of all you are all amazing and I love this forum! It's really been a great help in planning my transition. Right now, I really want to get my FFS lined up for early spring. I'm pretty sure I need:
1. Scalp advancement, hairline
2. Hair transplant
3. Brow
4. Jaw
5. Tracheal shave
6. Nose revision
7. Cheeks
8. Eyelids
9. Fat transfer
What is this Type III forehead thing and would I need it? I'm now 38, but want to look younger, too.
I really don't know where to start, but I have consultations with Dr. Harrison Lee, Facial Team, Dr. Toby Mayer, Dr. Zukowski, maybe Deschamps Braly. Of these, who would be the best, or is there someone else I don't know about who would be good for my face? I hope to have insurance cover it but mine isn't so good (Blue Shield HSA PPO in CA).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd196%2Frohnin%2FF82C0083-0585-4139-AA8C-44258367B05D_zpseyywkm7k.jpg&hash=ad334ac70cece9682da8c0176b33c2ac0535ed0a) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/rohnin/media/F82C0083-0585-4139-AA8C-44258367B05D_zpseyywkm7k.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd196%2Frohnin%2FA4EACF32-D0C7-4BE4-BDAB-1D3D53A154C9_zpssc7rujlh.jpg&hash=57c2b3c2550fc11ec7a11abd6b124684b0d6e550) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/rohnin/media/A4EACF32-D0C7-4BE4-BDAB-1D3D53A154C9_zpssc7rujlh.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd196%2Frohnin%2F6DDFFC07-6669-4063-B2DC-01431112232A_zpsim0ditll.jpg&hash=524184213d34e39f221a64eda45b4d2b010f388e) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/rohnin/media/6DDFFC07-6669-4063-B2DC-01431112232A_zpsim0ditll.jpg.html)
Example dressed up
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd196%2Frohnin%2FPrincess_zpsrymvnped.jpg&hash=201407ba6e5208d6cc3d31e7cad372f5283be9fd) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/rohnin/media/Princess_zpsrymvnped.jpg.html)
Someone once said I resembled her (Park Bom), I wonder if I could look like this!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd196%2Frohnin%2Fbom_zpsfmbvzgha.jpg&hash=78c294c1cfed3312f5c6b5e1cac4e4cb2e3472ca) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/rohnin/media/bom_zpsfmbvzgha.jpg.html)
As you aren't on HRT or haven't been for very long, I would delay the FFS. Your after picture looks pretty good and I am not sure you would need at worst one or two things out of the list if that. I would like to see you on HRT for a year or two before you alter your face as I think that HRT may make a noticeable difference.
Quote from: Dena on December 16, 2015, 04:07:27 PM
As you aren't on HRT or haven't been for very long, I would delay the FFS. Your after picture looks pretty good and I am not sure you would need at worst one or two things out of the list if that. I would like to see you on HRT for a year or two before you alter your face as I think that HRT may make a noticeable difference.
Thanks, I've debated this long and hard but am determined to do FFS ASAP since HRT won't change bone structure or my nose/Adam's apple. So as long as it's not too drastic I think it will be okay
Its perfectly fine to have FFS before even starting hormones. It makes no difference because bone structure wont change... but some procedures like fat transfer to cheeks or lips should be avoided, because hormones can have some effects on that, and its better to not do that until after 2-3 years on hormones.
You can read about different forehead techniques here: http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/Forehead.html
Whole site is very informative and very well written.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 18, 2015, 09:44:21 AM
Its perfectly fine to have FFS before even starting hormones. It makes no difference because bone structure wont change... but some procedures like fat transfer to cheeks or lips should be avoided, because hormones can have some effects on that, and its better to not do that until after 2-3 years on hormones.
You can read about different forehead techniques here: http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/Forehead.html
Whole site is very informative and very well written.
Do you think a little fat transfer would hurt? I mean it wouldn't stop the natural redistribution, right? Or would it just appear uneven?
Thanks so much for that link, it was very helpful!
Its hard to predict the soft tissue changes, it depends on age, genetics, and mainly how your body reacts to hormones, etc... Your cheeks will become fuller after enough time on hormones, but we dont know how much fuller and how soon.
Transfered fat is more likely to accumulate better when you inject it into tissue with enough fat already present, and it is less likely to get reabsorbed and less likely to cause unevenness, which may or may not require additional fat transfer to smooth the uneven areas. More fat already present means more predictable result.. but having small fix later isnt really a big deal, because smaller fat transfer can be done in office environment under local anesthesia and sedation, which means its also not that expensive.
Your hair should be long enough for clipin extensions already.
You might try some exensions, I'd prefer real hair... then you might do what the people in your pictures do... they cover their brows with bangs. This can already make for a huge effect.
I personally would simply give it a bit more time... or try one process like a rhinoplasty.
HRT can make a huge difference in appearance and in aura in some people...
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 19, 2015, 12:20:26 PM
... or try something simple like a rhinoplasty.
Facial surgery is far more serious deal than some might think. Botox injection might count as "something simple", rhinoplasty definitely isnt, and noone should have rhinoplasty or any surgical procedure just to try it. Every facial surgery, but especially FFS, needs to be well assessed, planned to every and last detail by both surgeon and a patient, otherwise its a disaster waiting to happen, and same things need to be surgically altered twice or more. Almost all patients who had rhinoplasty done before, need to have it done again when they have FFS which includes forehead work.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 19, 2015, 12:46:46 PM
Facial surgery is far more serious deal than some might think. Botox injection might count as "something simple", rhinoplasty definitely isnt, and noone should have rhinoplasty or any surgical procedure just to try it. Every facial surgery, but especially FFS, needs to be well assessed, planned to every and last detail by both surgeon and a patient, otherwise its a disaster waiting to happen, and same things need to be surgically altered twice or more. Almost all patients who had rhinoplasty done before, need to have it done again when they have FFS which includes forehead work.
Excuse the language. It was not meant a s try but to say its not as intricate as other processes.
And this one correction might already have a huge influence.
Often people are shown results from a software making an estmate of a correction.
hugs
Rhinoplasty is always done to allign nose with other facial features, primarily forehead. When you change forehead you need to reallign nose again to "fit" with the new forehead. Having nose done once is a good idea. Doing it right for the second or third time is a lot more tricky (because of scar tissue, cartilage issues, etc..). If one even only considers having FFS, they should never have rhinoplasty done first. Always wait.. because its always forehead first, and nose last. Multiple revision are generally a bad idea, even if its only rhinoplasty.
Dr Bart van de ven in Belgium has operated on Asian faces and has had excellent results. He's my number one choice for ffs! :)
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Thank you for the suggestions, and I think hair extensions is a great idea I have to look into that. Is Dr. Bart van de Ven expensive? I did hear about him recently, too.
I had a consult with Facial Team, I really liked it the doc was super nice and detailed. I also like their approach, but he did say they don't do too many Asians. Should that be a concern?
I also just saw Dr. Toby Mayer in Beverly Hills. He said he never needs to remove the brow bone or use any hardware, just shaving. He also said I didn't need jaw contouring because it might make the face unbalanced (top larger than bottom) but I would benefit from a chin implant. He also does voice modification through an external cut. He also advances the scalp via a front hairline incision vs. mid scalp like Facial Team.
Should I try to see Dr. Deschamps Braly, too? It would be a trip though
Quote from: shoko on December 24, 2015, 01:33:46 PM
Thank you for the suggestions, and I think hair extensions is a great idea I have to look into that. Is Dr. Bart van de Ven expensive? I did hear about him recently, too.
I had a consult with Facial Team, I really liked it the doc was super nice and detailed. I also like their approach, but he did say they don't do too many Asians. Should that be a concern?
I also just saw Dr. Toby Mayer in Beverly Hills. He said he never needs to remove the brow bone or use any hardware, just shaving. He also said I didn't need jaw contouring because it might make the face unbalanced (top larger than bottom) but I would benefit from a chin implant. He also does voice modification through an external cut. He also advances the scalp via a front hairline incision vs. mid scalp like Facial Team.
Should I try to see Dr. Deschamps Braly, too? It would be a trip though
dr. Bart van de Ven is one of least expensive FFS surgeons. And EUR-USD exchange rate is quite favourable for US citizens having surgery in EU. If you have that option, I would suggest you focus on everything else before price and cost of travel.
I personally dont believe that you should be concerned about their or anyone else's experience, or lack of it, with Asian patients. It doesnt really matter that much, because FFS is primarily about bone structure. Approach of every surgery is very individual, and ALL facial characteristics are different and individual, regardless of which racial background a patient is.
dr. Mayer said he never needed to use any technique other than shaving, because he doesnt have necessary training and skills to perform forehead reconstruction. What he told you is pure patient manipulation. If you look at his online gallery, you can clearly see that many (most) of his patients actually NEEDED forehead reconstruction not just shaving, and that their results in upper face area should be much better.
Your lower face isnt too bad. You definitely dont need aggressive chin or jaw reduction. But some lateral reduction for little more V-shape might be good idea. Your chin is little receding... not a lot. It doesnt look problematic. I dont think you need an implant.
He uses CTA voice modification technique.. there is generally better technique in use today with more predictable results, called glottoplasty, and it can be done endoscopically.. so there is no neck incision> and no scar.
Facial team incision isnt benefitial for scalp advance. mid-scalp (coronal) incision actually moves hairline further back (3-5mm). That means that for any hairline advance or improvement in corners hairtransplant must be additionally used. They offer immediate hair transplant option, but its generally better to do it at least 6 months after surgery. And you can find a lot more affordable price for hair transplant compared to what they offer.
Dr. Deschamps Braly and his elderly assistant dr. Ousterhout are the most expensive FFS option out there. Maybe Dr. Deschamps Braly also does skype consultations ?
Quote from: Lagertha on December 24, 2015, 02:13:41 PM
dr. Bart van de Ven is one of least expensive FFS surgeons. And EUR-USD exchange rate is quite favourable for US citizens having surgery in EU. If you have that option, I would suggest you focus on everything else before price and cost of travel.
I personally dont believe that you should be concerned about their or anyone else's experience, or lack of it, with Asian patients. It doesnt really matter that much, because FFS is primarily about bone structure. Approach of every surgery is very individual, and ALL facial characteristics are different and individual, regardless of which racial background a patient is.
dr. Mayer said he never needed to use any technique other than shaving, because he doesnt have necessary training and skills to perform forehead reconstruction. What he told you is pure patient manipulation. If you look at his online gallery, you can clearly see that many (most) of his patients actually NEEDED forehead reconstruction not just shaving, and that their results in upper face area should be much better.
Your lower face isnt too bad. You definitely dont need aggressive chin or jaw reduction. But some lateral reduction for little more V-shape might be good idea. Your chin is little receding... not a lot. It doesnt look problematic. I dont think you need an implant.
He uses CTA voice modification technique.. there is generally better technique in use today with more predictable results, called glottoplasty, and it can be done endoscopically.. so there is no neck incision> and no scar.
Facial team incision isnt benefitial for scalp advance. mid-scalp (coronal) incision actually moves hairline further back (3-5mm). That means that for any hairline advance or improvement in corners hairtransplant must be additionally used. They offer immediate hair transplant option, but its generally better to do it at least 6 months after surgery. And you can find a lot more affordable price for hair transplant compared to what they offer.
Dr. Deschamps Braly and his elderly assistant dr. Ousterhout are the most expensive FFS option out there. Maybe Dr. Deschamps Braly also does skype consultations ?
I did get the feeling Dr. Mayer was a bit out of date.
If Deschamps Braly is that expensive, I think I'll pass. I'm not sure paying more will guarantee the best result, and the staff said he had only 2 years experience in FFS?! In any case he does require a $250 fee and in person is best if I'm going to pay that and need x-rays (by phone is an option, too).
So I guess it's between Facial Team and Dr. Bart van de Ven. I looked on his website and consultations seem to only be in person and in select cities only? I can't find an email link. It would seem there is a long wait for him? Are his prices comparable to Facial Team?
None of FFS surgeons have a long wait list... most wanted is dr. Di Maggio and he is usually booked around 5-6 months in advance. And there is always an option for earlier date when somebody postpones/cancels their surgery...
More money doesnt guarantee better result. Better skills and better more appropriate training (craniofacial especially) and experience usually does. Dr. Deschamps Braly really hasnt worked in FFS field for long, but he is a craniofacial surgeon and at least as of now works together with pioneer of facial feminization, with 1000+ FFS surgeries, and 40+ years of experience.
Facial team is more expensive than dr. Bart... about 1/3 more expensive. If you think about europe... dare I suggest you look into services of dr. Norman van der Dussen, a lot more experienced surgeon and craniofacial surgeon.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 24, 2015, 02:52:14 PM
None of FFS surgeons have a long wait list... most wanted is dr. Di Maggio and he is usually booked around 5-6 months in advance. And there is always an option for earlier date when somebody postpones/cancels their surgery...
More money doesnt guarantee better result. Better skills and better more appropriate training (craniofacial especially) and experience usually does. Dr. Deschamps Braly really hasnt worked in FFS field for long, but he is a craniofacial surgeon and at least as of now works together with pioneer of facial feminization, with 1000+ FFS surgeries, and 40+ years of experience.
Facial team is more expensive than dr. Bart... about 1/3 more expensive. If you think about europe... dare I suggest you look into services of dr. Norman van der Dussen, a lot more experienced surgeon and craniofacial surgeon.
I see, I'll look into him also. Thanks a lot for the insights!
Quote from: Lagertha on December 24, 2015, 02:52:14 PM
. . . .
Facial team is more expensive than dr. Bart... about 1/3 more expensive. If you think about europe... dare I suggest you look into services of dr. Norman van der Dussen, a lot more experienced surgeon and craniofacial surgeon.
I don't think I understand the Facial Team approach (ok, ... "business model " ? "Operating paradigm ? " - - maybe this is better in a new thread ?)
Why get 4 for 5 surgeons to do what one properly trained surgeon can do in the same surgery? The amount of "coordination" in terms of communicating the details of the patient's wishes and contraindications, allergies, and medical history is multiplied by 400 or 500 % and the risk of a screw-up / mis-communication is multiplied. There is a lot of wasted overlap in the time of the different surgeons all having to attempt to get on the same page.
Let's face it - - the most common request around the message boards is for the surgeon to have an
artistic / aesthetic appreciation of what the patient needs in order to make them look like the female behind the male face.
But the Mona Lisa was painted by ONE artist- - Leonardo. Not a team of painters. The Moon Light Sonata was written by ONE composer, not a team of musicians.
Can you imagine what the Mona Lisa painting might look like if it were painted by five different artists ?
Maybe there is some technical merit and economic efficiency in that practice model - - but I doubt the rational for that is obvious to most outside observers.
i see what you mean. working in the OR, i know other surgeons often walk in and finish what the other started, or begin working on another part (for example, breast augmentations with each side done by a different doctor). is this bad? i don't know, it depends on the results. patients of course will never know.
i thought facial team was just two doctors, maybe 3? they seem to have good results and reviews, are experienced, and have an organized system from preop to postop. that is what attracts me to them. they are also not too old like some others, who may be more stuck in their ways and less flexible. i don't know. i wish they were cheaper in any case.
i had one rhinoplasty done in 2012 in south korea. i had done my research, he had great reviews, i thought i had settled on the best for me. i hate my nose. and only one doctor did it. this stuff is so subjective which is why it's so frustrating!
Well having one surgeon doing my forehead and nose certainly did not work out for me ... >:(
My surgery lasted nearly 10 hours and maybe he was exhausted because the day before he operated on another Brit friend of mine for a similar time.
I prefer having one or two craniofacial surgeons and a soft tissue/rhinoplasty surgeon working on me.
Less stress for them and also more heads are better than one in my opinion.
None of facial team surgeons is craniofacial surgeon. Lets be honest here, dr. Capitan and dr. Simon have dental surgery background and specialization in oral & maxillofacial surgery
So what, I don't care after seeing many of their results in the flesh.
Simon Eccles at London's Chelsea & Westminster hospital is a world renowned craniofacial surgeon but he did not carry out my surgery satisfactorily with his ideas of forehead revisions for transgendered patients and the fact that my left frontal sinus is still prominent. Additionally, I still get constant nosebleeds from the left nostril as well as pain from the left forehead area. But to his credit he admitted that the inappropriate PEEK implants he inserted were not a success and when touched are painful, so they have to be removed. As a result the NHS are paying Facial Team for my complex forehead reconstruction, as it is functional.
However I am paying for the cosmetic revision rhinoplasty and cosmetic secondary upper lip lift which were not touched by him.
PS. I can assure you that the NHS, after the failed attempt by Simon Eccles in October 2014, would not be spending any more public money if they had not researched Facial Team's abilities thoroughly.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 25, 2015, 01:42:36 PM
None of facial team surgeons is craniofacial surgeon. Lets be honest here, dr. Capitan and dr. Simon have dental surgery background and specialization in oral & maxillofacial surgery
I sincerely hope and wish they will be up to the task, and finally for the last time resolve your forehead issue. It is beyond my understanding what your previous surgeon tried to achieve with his revision attempt. I certainly wish you all the luck and satisfying result.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 19, 2015, 01:17:58 PM
Rhinoplasty is always done to allign nose with other facial features, primarily forehead. When you change forehead you need to reallign nose again to "fit" with the new forehead. Having nose done once is a good idea. Doing it right for the second or third time is a lot more tricky (because of scar tissue, cartilage issues, etc..). If one even only considers having FFS, they should never have rhinoplasty done first. Always wait.. because its always forehead first, and nose last. Multiple revision are generally a bad idea, even if its only rhinoplasty.
Thanks god , Shoko brought up this topic again. I was asking about asian FFS earlier as well, was mostly concerned about nose, because I tend to have it done separately in Korea where they are expert in natural asian rhinoplasty ( we mostly have problem with big flat nose, I love those Korean pop stars perfect noseS). I live in Europe, so is it possible to have everything done by one European surgeon, and leave the nose for a trip to Korea after?
@Shoko, i think you jaw line looks fine, your forehead may just need hair transplant to re-define a more feminine hairline. I don't think a scalp advancement is necessary, because I saw it leaves so obvious scar and some even suffer forehead numb for years. My plan is to come to Turkey for hair and eyebrow transplant ( they are very good at that and price is amongst most reasonable one in Europe ) , then FFS ( haven't decided with whom yet), then nose in Korea.
Paula1 I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you, that would really make me upset! I hope everything gets sorted out this spring!
As for having a nose done in S. Korea, well that's where I had mine done and I think it was a disaster although I did do a lot of research beforehand. Maybe it was because I was still presenting male and they only care about women patients or something I don't know. Please do tell me about hair transplants in Turkey, though. I certainly will need it and hope to save some money. Thanks for the input!
Thanks honeybun ... :)
I do have every confidence in them after many hours of consultation both here in the UK and Spain.
Also they have performed many procedures on us women and I have really liked their results.
They said that all my problems begun in 2004 but 2014 has not helped, so it's a complex reconstruction.
Simon Eccles is a lovely man ( we got on very well ) but his expertise in FFS is clearly lacking.
My friends think that he was experimenting/learning on me, bit like the original surgeon in Chicago ( I was one of his early and I believe first UK patient )
Merry Christmas and take care
Paula
Quote from: Lagertha on December 25, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
I sincerely hope and wish they will be up to the task, and finally for the last time resolve your forehead issue. It is beyond my understanding what your previous surgeon tried to achieve with his revision attempt. I certainly wish you all the luck and satisfying result.
Many thanks my dear .. :)
Have a lovely festive season.
Paula
Quote from: shoko on December 26, 2015, 01:05:10 AM
Paula1 I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you, that would really make me upset! I hope everything gets sorted out this spring!
Quote from: asianfever203 on December 25, 2015, 11:36:20 PM
Thanks god , Shoko brought up this topic again. I was asking about asian FFS earlier as well, was mostly concerned about nose, because I tend to have it done separately in Korea where they are expert in natural asian rhinoplasty ( we mostly have problem with big flat nose, I love those Korean pop stars perfect noseS). I live in Europe, so is it possible to have everything done by one European surgeon, and leave the nose for a trip to Korea after?
Hiya, I'm Asian too. I remember seeing your first post when I searched the boards! Good to see you're still here! :)
From what I've read and seen, for European faces, it's important to do nose with forehead, as their high nasal bridge and radix would need to be aligned with the flattened forehead. I think it's no problem for Asian MTFs, as our nasal bone (and radix) is usually very low anyway and by removing the masculine brow ridge of the forehead, the two features will align together. If you do your nose separately, I don't think any of the subsequent feminizing changes that Asian MTFs usually want would affect that alignment. Even if you're thinking about raising the nasal bridge slightly, I still think it is no problem since Asian females do that without changing their forehead in most cases.
Quote from: shoko on December 26, 2015, 01:05:10 AM
SNIP
Please do tell me about hair transplants in Turkey, though. I certainly will need it and hope to save some money. Thanks for the input!
I don't know about Turkey, but I had hair implants while I was in Buenos Aires. They were very reasonable. , especially when compared to US / Canadian prices. Even with airfare, a week apt rental, the cost is less than US.
Quote from: maquillage on December 26, 2015, 04:33:34 AM
Hiya, I'm Asian too. I remember seeing your first post when I searched the boards! Good to see you're still here! :)
From what I've read and seen, for European faces, it's important to do nose with forehead, as their high nasal bridge and radix would need to be aligned with the flattened forehead. I think it's no problem for Asian MTFs, as our nasal bone (and radix) is usually very low anyway and by removing the masculine brow ridge of the forehead, the two features will align together. If you do your nose separately, I don't think any of the subsequent feminizing changes that Asian MTFs usually want would affect that alignment. Even if you're thinking about raising the nasal bridge slightly, I still think it is no problem since Asian females do that without changing their forehead in most cases.
Yup! true for me too, I'm not sure about other Asian with high nose bridge... but in my case, I have no sign of nose bridge at all haha. It's good to take into consideration, but most asian girls in town have nose jobs without worrying about their forehead.
Shoko, you can google list of the world best hair transplant surgeons, these are many options you choose from, I pick Turkey, cuz its close to me and have reasonable price.
Quote from: Paula1 on December 25, 2015, 02:18:19 PM
So what, I don't care after seeing many of their results in the flesh.
As a result the NHS are paying Facial Team for my complex forehead reconstruction, as it is functional.
However I am paying for the cosmetic revision rhinoplasty and cosmetic secondary upper lip lift which were not touched by him.
If you do not mind, how much are you paying for the revision rhinoplasty ? Any idea how long that portion of the surgery might take ?
Hiya,
I'll send you a private message.
Hugs
Paula
Quote from: myfairlady49 on December 27, 2015, 01:18:11 AM
If you do not mind, how much are you paying for the revision rhinoplasty ? Any idea how long that portion of the surgery might take ?
:police:
While I appreciate that the FFS section is needed and welcomed I am sick of people Doctor or team bashing.
I will also remind people that if they are employed or have an association with a FFS team that it HAS to be declared.
Otherwise your opinion is dishonest and a disservice to vulnerable people.
I will not allow that.
I will suspend accounts until such a time that the person responds with proof of their relationship to FFS teams. I give people 24 hours to respond.
Cindy
Forum Admin
Does anyone know how Dr. Noorman van der Dussen compares price wise to Facial Team?
Quote from: shoko on December 29, 2015, 09:37:57 AM
Does anyone know how Dr. Noorman van der Dussen compares price wise to Facial Team?
You could have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,138066.msg1143163.html#msg1143163
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,200480.msg1782877.html#msg1782877
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=190455.0
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 29, 2015, 12:54:54 PM
You could have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,138066.msg1143163.html#msg1143163
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,200480.msg1782877.html#msg1782877
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=190455.0
hugs
As usual, you rock :)
I hope I can get an early spring with FT
Confirmed for March with Facial Team!
Quote from: shoko on January 28, 2016, 01:25:28 AM
Confirmed for March with Facial Team!
Congrats!!! I'm so excited and happy for you. Glad you could get an early date! :D
Quote from: Lagertha on December 25, 2015, 01:42:36 PM
None of facial team surgeons is craniofacial surgeon. Lets be honest here, dr. Capitan and dr. Simon have dental surgery background and specialization in oral & maxillofacial surgery
That's true. None of them are craniofacial.
Optionally to face Asian standard, I would choose Suporn or Chettawutt in Thailand.
Here we go again.
More negativity on Facial Team
I suggest that anyone considering FFS should look at Facial Team's results:
http://facialteam.eu/facial-feminization-surgery-before-after/
and check out their credentials.
http://facialteam.eu/facial-feminization-surgery/dr-luis-miguel-capitan-canadas/
http://facialteam.eu/facial-feminization-surgery/dr-daniel-simon/
http://facialteam.eu/raul-jimenez-bellinga-md-feboms/
http://facialteam.eu/new-research-and-development-department/
Judging from the FT patients who come on here with their results, they look pretty darn good to me.
I am trusting them with my face in April after one of the world's top craniofacial surgeons could not get my forehead completely right and those who have seen all my threads will know about that.
Quote from: jhulyglow on January 28, 2016, 01:06:22 PM
That's true. None of them are craniofacial.
question: so about 10 days after surgery do you think it would be okay to go on a little vacation somewhere for a week? my girlfriend has a week off then and i'd hate to just go straight home.. i don't want to do anything that would impair healing though. was thinking about staying somewhere in marbella or going to casablanca, etc..
haven't heard back yet from Jenny's Nest, is there an alternative in case that's not available?
It is ideal if you can stay a week or two longer somewhere not too distant. If anything happens like minor complication, or if you are just affraid of something not healing as you expected, just can call them arrange additional check-up just to make shure. Its a lot better idea to stay around like 20 days post-surgery, and do some seightseeing and tourism (with care!) than having long and exhausting flight back home 8 or 10 days after surgery. Although ask clinic staff what activities you can safely do, and what to avoid.
Good advice mmmmm
Nice to see you on here .... ;)
Hiya,
If Jenny is not available, she will know who else to recommend as she has said the same to me.
And Facial Team can help you out too in this matter.
Hugs
Paula
Quote from: shoko on February 01, 2016, 02:20:46 PM
question: so about 10 days after surgery do you think it would be okay to go on a little vacation somewhere for a week? my girlfriend has a week off then and i'd hate to just go straight home.. i don't want to do anything that would impair healing though. was thinking about staying somewhere in marbella or going to casablanca, etc..
haven't heard back yet from Jenny's Nest, is there an alternative in case that's not available?
Hello girls,
Well, I'm day 4 post-op... from Facial Team in Marbella :) I can't express just how happy I chose Facial Team! Although I'm still very swollen, bruised and in pain, I have a feeling it's going to turn out alright. After a two-night stay at High Care Hospital (a very new, clean and beautiful facility, btw), I'm hanging out in my room at Hotel San Cristobal right in old town by the beach. Perfect location - I have a room with a bath and gentle hand shower, gentle blow dryer, beautiful views and tons of space. I can walk to the local supermarket for food and get my laundry done for 10 euros about 3 minutes away.
Anyway, I was lucky to get a surgery date of March 15 in short notice so I flew to Malaga via London and spent one day doing all the sightseeing and preop tests/consultations on the 14th. On the day of surgery I was reassured by the doctors and wheeled into a large operating suite. My procedures lasted from about 9am to 11pm: brow/forehead reconstruction, revision rhinoplasty, lip lift, jaw/chin, tracheal shave and hair transplants. OMG I don't recommend hair transplants right after as I vomited and could not hold still due to back pain, but we got through it. The nurses really took care of me afterwards and all my lines were removed the next day (thank goodness!). I could eat, get cleaned up, had a lymphatic treatment and walked around until it was time to go on the 17th.
It's really hard to sleep now because my coronal incision is right behind my head, they give you ibuprofen and paracetamol for pain though I wish I had Vicodin with me. Today they checked up on me by phone (a cell phone is provided) and in a few days they will take me back to remove stitches and have a final consultation. Only thing is I didn't see the other doctors after the operation, just Dr. Bellinga who checked up on me. But everything was explained in a booklet beforehand.
The best part is that they really listen and give suggestions for the most natural result, which is what I was after. Being only on HRT for about 3 months, it was important to me to give that time as well.
So here I am, a little bored but if anyone else is here or has questions let me know!!
Congratulations :)
How is the weather and what did you have to eat today ?
:)
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on March 19, 2016, 12:57:01 PM
Congratulations :)
How is the weather and what did you have to eat today ?
:)
*hugs*
Thank you!
The weather is perfect, sunny and cool (I only go out in the evenings).
Today I bought some more groceries, kind of overdid it with a piece of dark chocolate which was very difficult to chew :( But I made soup, a half sandwich, and spinach for dinner. At lunch it was a protein shake and yogurt. Just trying to keep well hydrated all day :) Hopefully I can sleep better tonight on my back without turning on my side again.
Quote from: shoko on March 19, 2016, 05:02:50 PM
Thank you!
The weather is perfect, sunny and cool (I only go out in the evenings).
Today I bought some more groceries, kind of overdid it with a piece of dark chocolate which was very difficult to chew :( But I made soup, a half sandwich, and spinach for dinner. At lunch it was a protein shake and yogurt. Just trying to keep well hydrated all day :) Hopefully I can sleep better tonight on my back without turning on my side again.
I imagine that being perfect .. a slight mediterranean breeze ...
but dark chocolate shoud melt .. given some time ;)
Did you try some typical specialties ... like olives ?
And do they have some fruits of the season ?
Or is it imported oranges ? :)
*hugs*
Hiya honeybun,
I was out driving around this evening.
I find driving my car so relaxing and went over to Heathrow (London) Airport and around.
Seeing planes land and take off, I thought of you and my flight to Malaga from Gatwick (London) in 11 days time.
And here you are having had surgery and happy so far that you chose Facial Team ... 8)
I am glad that you are staying at Hotel San Cristobal, I liked it very much.
Jenny Bowman of 'Jenny's Nest' suggested that I stay there last May when I flew down to see Drs Capitan, Dr Simon & Dr Bellinga.
Isn't Dr Bellinga a sweetie as are Dr C & Dr S?
Do pm me if you wish with any pre & post op fotos but will understand if you don't wish to ... :)
Also try the restaurant that Jenny and I went to last May, but only if you are up to it.
It's really good and only a few minutes walk from the hotel and around the corner from the old 'Jenny's Nest'
See: https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g187439-d2214190-Reviews-El_Tanguito-Marbella_Costa_del_Sol_Province_of_Malaga_Andalucia.html
I had a kind of shepherds pie which was lovely.
Anyway happy healing and look forward to your next report.
Hugs
Paula xx
PS. By the way it's bloomin cold and cloudy here in South West London with a bitter east to north east wind. Cannot wait to arrive at my apartment in Marbella , see some nice sunshine for a change and use the pool and other facilities there for a few days before surgery.
Quote from: shoko on March 19, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
Hello girls,
Well, I'm day 4 post-op... from Facial Team in Marbella :) I can't express just how happy I chose Facial Team! Although I'm still very swollen, bruised and in pain, I have a feeling it's going to turn out alright. After a two-night stay at High Care Hospital (a very new, clean and beautiful facility, btw), I'm hanging out in my room at Hotel San Cristobal right in old town by the beach. Perfect location - I have a room with a bath and gentle hand shower, gentle blow dryer, beautiful views and tons of space. I can walk to the local supermarket for food and get my laundry done for 10 euros about 3 minutes away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi again Shoko,
Trust that you had a good night's sleep.
You were saying that you had a revision rhinoplasty with Dr Bellinga.
My major concern ( which, of course, is quite normal ) is my revision rhinoplasty.
He is taking cartilage from both my ears to improve the appearance of my nose from it's rather USA barbie doll appearance to a more classical European look, as it used to be.
I have never liked my nose but I used to defend it avidly on the Yahoo group FFS Support when I had it done as many of their members criticised it for being too short and piggy like. They were right, of course, as it's presently too small for my face. I compare it to the UK's retired Olympic gymnast Beth Tweddle's nose.
Just out of interest what was wrong with your nose and what did Dr B do to it?
Wow that was a long time to be in the operating theatre!!
Have a nice day.
Hugs
Paula
Quote from: shoko on March 19, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
My procedures lasted from about 9am to 11pm: brow/forehead reconstruction, revision rhinoplasty, lip lift, jaw/chin, tracheal shave and hair transplants.
So here I am, a little bored but if anyone else is here or has questions let me know!!
Thanks for your pm's Shoko ... :)
Just going to check them out.
Sleep well tonight.
Hugs
Paula
I'm back at home now about 2.5 weeks post-op.
The only thing that is bothering me aesthetically is my nose. This was my second rhinoplasty and I really wanted a smaller nose but my tip is still too tall. They say it's due to swelling and I have to wait a year but I don't think reduced swelling can make it _that_ much shorter (reduced swelling after my first rhinoplasty didn't make that much difference, either).
I'm a bit frustrated :( I'm pretty happy with everything else so far but why can't I ever get the nose right?! What can I do?
I just need to vent. I am very unhappy with my rhinoplasty and lip lift. It's like he paid no attention to what I requested or the photos I showed. I thought going through this would make me happy, instead now I'm depressed, not to mention out a lot of money and having to recover for nothing
Quote from: shoko on April 06, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
I just need to vent. I am very unhappy with my rhinoplasty and lip lift. It's like he paid no attention to what I requested or the photos I showed. I thought going through this would make me happy, instead now I'm depressed, not to mention out a lot of money and having to recover for nothing
*hugs*
But you say you had brow/forehead reconstruction, revision rhinoplasty, lip lift, jaw/chin, tracheal shave and hair transplants ...
surely there are things you are happy with ?
Have you considered if light makeup would make a difference, or a change in complexion ... like a little tan ?
Maybe they would do another revision in case ... with reduced fees ?
According to others nose revisions are not easy ...
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 06, 2016, 03:33:25 PM
*hugs*
But you say you had brow/forehead reconstruction, revision rhinoplasty, lip lift, jaw/chin, tracheal shave and hair transplants ...
surely there are things you are happy with ?
Have you considered if light makeup would make a difference, or a change in complexion ... like a little tan ?
Maybe they would do another revision in case ... with reduced fees ?
According to others nose revisions are not easy ...
*hugs*
I'm only unhappy with the rhinoplasty and lip lift (so far, the rest I think will turn out well). But those are probably the most prominent and important features. I already had a rhinoplasty before and I don't want to go through this again. I mean it's like he was so careless I can't believe it. And they turned around and blamed me, saying I didn't want the tip of my nose touched, something I definitely never said!
Now I'll probably need to delay my GCS because of this, it ruins everything I'm so angry
Quote from: shoko on April 06, 2016, 04:47:22 PM
I'm only unhappy with the rhinoplasty and lip lift (so far, the rest I think will turn out well). But those are probably the most prominent and important features. I already had a rhinoplasty before and I don't want to go through this again. I mean it's like he was so careless I can't believe it. And they turned around and blamed me, saying I didn't want the tip of my nose touched, something I definitely never said!
Now I'll probably need to delay my GCS because of this, it ruins everything I'm so angry
*hugs*
Try to make the best of it.
Have you tried some makeup ? And there should be parts which have improved.
I'd try to calm down and really have a look at it. Probably there are large areas where there is an improvement.
I'd talk to them politely then, and talk about a possible revision.
I'd not get upset simply be insistent they share a part of the fees.
You can say you are active on boards, its possible they want to keep up a good reputation.
Nose revisions may be difficult, I'd assume they know this.
So some kind of agreement satisfying both sides might be found.
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 06, 2016, 05:02:41 PM
*hugs*
Try to make the best of it.
Have you tried some makeup ? And there should be parts which have improved.
I'd try to calm down and really have a look at it. Probably there are large areas where there is an improvement.
I'd talk to them politely then, and talk about a possible revision.
I'd not get upset simply be insistent they share a part of the fees.
You can say you are active on boards, its possible they want to keep up a good reputation.
Nose revisions may be difficult, I'd assume they know this.
So some kind of agreement satisfying both sides might be found.
*hugs*
I understand, I've been totally civil about this via email. All they're saying is wait until 3 months for the next Skype follow up. But they don't understand, makeup cannot hide a disproportionately large nose, and everyone notices it. It's embarrassing to go out. The problem is, I'm not sure I trust him to fix the problem if he won't even admit to it.
I went in as a patient. I didn't disclose that I'm a doctor who works frequently at plastic surgery centers here in Beverly Hills. I know what I'm talking about and surgeons here are surprised as well. It's unacceptable!
So what happened in your opinion ? Was it a misunderstanding ?
Do you have something in writing, or a preview photo where you specified what you want ?
Well is it possible they do not admit in general, and come around later ?
Sorry you feel that way ... but I'd say most people don't notice ...
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 06, 2016, 05:15:33 PM
So what happened in your opinion ? Was it a misunderstanding ?
Do you have something in writing, or a preview photo where you specified what you want ?
Well is it possible they do not admit in general, and come around later ?
Sorry you feel that way ... but I'd say most people don't notice ...
*hugs*
Oh I was very clear, I even gave them plenty of sample photos too. But for him to say I didn't want my tip touched when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever I would ever say such a thing? That's wrong
Where I work, if the patient is upset the patient is right! I've done plenty of revisions that are done free of charge and there is no argument!
The problem is, it will cost me to take time off again and fly there even if it was free
Yes of course.
Could it have been an internal mixup, like wrong notes ?
Do you have an idea how they usually handle requests for revisions ?
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 06, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
Yes of course.
Could it have been an internal mixup, like wrong notes ?
Do you have an idea how they usually handle requests for revisions ?
*hugs*
I have no idea :( I expected at least an offer but was not given one
But it's not possible to be mixed up when I spoke with the surgeon the day before and the morning of surgery. Absolutely not
Hm well you could talk to them ...
making a few points clear ...
what your expectations were and that a waiting time does not change size ...
and that you would expect an offer ...
you might tell them you would keep it confidential ... but that you clearly stated what you expected...
*hugs* and hope they come around
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 06, 2016, 06:21:51 PM
Hm well you could talk to them ...
making a few points clear ...
what your expectations were and that a waiting time does not change size ...
and that you would expect an offer ...
you might tell them you would keep it confidential ... but that you clearly stated what you expected...
*hugs* and hope they come around
Thanks. They stopped emailing after saying wait 3 months. I have to live with this face in the meantime
Quote from: shoko on April 06, 2016, 04:47:22 PM
I'm only unhappy with the rhinoplasty and lip lift (so far, the rest I think will turn out well).
I do not like rhinoplasty Facial . I've read many complaints it on Facebook groups. Brazilian colleagues needed redoing . I believe it is because of justification of naturalness
Quote from: jhulyglow on April 08, 2016, 03:09:28 PM
I do not like rhinoplasty Facial . I've read many complaints it on Facebook groups. Brazilian colleagues needed redoing . I believe it is because of justification of naturalness
Can you link me to these Facebook groups?
Quote from: shoko on April 08, 2016, 03:28:53 PM
Can you link me to these Facebook groups?
Yes. I can. Facebook group that talks about FFS is in Portuguese language. But there are participants who talks English ...https://www.facebook.com/groups/ffs.transex.brasil/?ref=bookmarks (https://www.facebook.com/groups/ffs.transex.brasil/?ref=bookmarks)
This is your friend:
https://translate.google.co.nz/
*hugs*
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 08, 2016, 06:06:18 PM
This is your friend:
https://translate.google.co.nz/
*hugs*
It's right now? I am learning. thanks
Quote from: jhulyglow on April 08, 2016, 10:41:32 PM
It's right now? I am learning. thanks
You can have texts and complete websites translated there.
Just enter in the left field a text or a link to a website.
On the right you can choose output language.
wish you much fun
*hugs*
Just want to update at 3 months post-op:
The endotines are still palpable and causing some pain, in addition to the expected shooting pains along my scalp. It's still overall numb but should get better. The bothersome part is having an itch and not being able to scratch it out because it's numb.
My jaw and chin are settled much better, but the chin feels very tight and I hope that loosens up.
The tracheal shave scar is still very visible but less raised.
I have applied rose musk oil and dermatix silicone gel religiously to all scars (neck and lip lift).
My nose bothers me a lot. There is a piece of cartilage protruding from right to left inside the nose which constantly irritates me. When I shift my face the nose clicks back and forth as though it is not aligned internally. My nostrils are not symmetrical, and there is a bump on the left side of my nose. Again, the tip is taller than I had wanted. I have sent pictures to FT already about this and it's unnecessary for me to post them again here.
The lip lift scar, despite religious care, is still highly visible and not hidden at all. A proper lip lift has the scar hidden inside the nostrils. This was not done, and in fact is not even symmetrical. There is an adhesion on the left side of the scar, which is difficult to cover properly with make up as it is raised.
I have seen multiple consultations with surgeons here in Los Angeles / Beverly Hills and they all agree a lot has to be done to fix the nose and excise the lip lift scar. But I'm afraid that will dramatically shorten my philtrum. I am also not able to revise the nose until next year obviously. And there is no procedure I can do to fix the internal protrusion of cartilage that is driving me crazy.
Hair is starting to grow at the transplant sites but not evenly and not so well at the corners (yet).
I was promised a Skype consultation at 3 months but so far have not been contacted to schedule one. They are very aware how unhappy I am, and this should have been a priority for them knowing a patient is unhappy.
I honestly don't know if I would have been treated better if I had disclosed that I am a physician and work with many plastic surgeons here in Los Angeles. Honestly I don't care that much that Drs. Simon and Capitan never saw or spoke to me again after surgery (which is unusual in any case), but Dr. Bellinga needed to address my concerns which he has not. At this point I am going to be out another $20k USD to fix his incompetence. I don't care how much he sweet talks he is NOT a competent surgeon at all and don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. If he had the courtesy to at least address my issues I probably would give him a chance but at this point there is nothing he can do short of refunding my money.
If I could do it all over again I would either have gone to Dr. Harrison Lee or just had the procedures done without rhinoplasty and lip lift.
Hi Shoko,
As I said before I am sorry to hear of your woes.
With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps it would have been better not to post your dissatisfaction on an open forum which might ( and I say might ) have not exactly improved your relationship with Facial Team.
But it is your right to do so, of course.
Unfortunately they are unable to respond to your complaints on an open forum so we only hear your side of the story.
By saying this, I am not saying that what you tell us is untrue but I would like to know their side of events before making any judgement.
Every surgeon has a bad day and that is all of our concerns before going into the operating theatre.
I have never heard of a lip lift being done inside the nostrils but I might be wrong.
Dr Zukowski did mine under the nose and nostrils in 2004 and the scarring was minimal and same again this time with Dr Bellinga.
Everybody heals differently and I sincerely hope that you are not a poor healer and scar badly because that would be terrible.
I sincerely hope that your concerns are addressed one way or another to your satisfaction in the future.
Take care
Paula
Shoko, sorry to hear about how things turned out. I have a good friend in real life who had FFS with Facial Team, and she is very happy with the results.
I also have 2 other good friends in real life who had FFS with Dr. Zukowski, and they're also very happy with how things turned out. Personally, I too had FFS with Dr. Zukowski (just a rhinoplasty) just 5 months ago, and I love how I look now.
I'm Asian (Korean). And one of my friends who had FFS (which included rhinoplasty) with Dr. Zukowski is also Asian (Chinese). So if you're considering any nose revisions, you may want to consider consulting with Dr. Zukowski. I think he's really good at doing Asian noses.
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