I am a pre-T FtM transsexual in my late 30s and I am very serious about going on T in the near future. As I am collecting all types of info about the process, I became somewhat concerned about medical effects and risks of testosterone, especially in a long term usage. I am not talking about acne, but some potentially life-threatening conditions, such as high blood pressure, heart and liver mis-functioning.
On the web, the info seems to be very mixed. Some say that testosterone is completely safe (or better, that the risks are really minimal). At the same time, there is still some association between hormones and all types of medical problems. On the web, most info about FTM transitioning comes from young guys in their 20s and those who transitioned just a few years ago. But what about the longer term users and/or folks who begin T in their 30s and 40s?
Those of you using testosterone for more than a decade (or know about others who have been on T for a while), what do you think about the T medical risks? Have you actually experienced any potentially life threatening health conditions that were linked to the T use?
First welcome to Susan's.
Second, I'm over 50 and started mid forties. The closet thing I had to a problem was increased red blood cell count. Easily controlled. While the risks are real, I have heard very little when it comes to anyone actually having a problem with it.
Third, Here is some links to site rules and some answers to often asked question. I'm glad you found us and hope you feel free to explore.
- Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
- Standard Terms and Definitions (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
- Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
- Reputation rules (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)
- News posting & quoting guidelines (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)
- Photo, avatars, and signature images policy (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)
I'm going the other way, and what do you know, but there's risks to taking estrogen. As far as I can tell all that happens is there's different risks and it all works out even in the in the end, except women live a bit longer than men.
Being trans and not doing something about it is a far greater risk than any HRT. I've had medical problems caused by massive stress, and it shows up in blood tests. Long term it's not survivable.
Quote from: AnonyMsBeing trans and not doing something about it is a far greater risk than any HRT.
This.
Most health risks from T are the same as those faced by cis males, who are at increased risk (compared to women) for things like high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease. This is one reason why it's important to work with a doctor who is educated about HRT and conscientious about monitoring your overall health, not just your T levels.
I started T a couple of years ago, at 60-ish, and my doctor does a physical exam and checks my liver function, cholesterol, thyroid, blood sugar, hemoglobin level, etc., two or three times a year.
There are advantages to going on T as you age, too: for one thing, you're much less at risk for osteoporosis than a post-menopausal woman who's not on HRT. I'll gladly accept male risk levels for things like heart disease if that's the price of being comfortable in my body and happy in the world, but it's a personal decision.
Thanks everyone for your input and, LordKAT, thanks for your welcome note!
I plan to set up an appointment with an endocrinologist in the next couple of months. I hope it works well.
I started T at age 40, five years ago... Since then I have had some less than ideal effects from it, such as higher cholesterol, hypertension, and increased red blood cell count. So, maybe these things may have happened without adding more Testosterone to my body, maybe not. I will never know. I am fit, otherwise healthy, and accept my increased risk for cardiovascular disease... It generally goes along with being male, so not much I can do about that. I take a pill for the blood pressure, donate blood 3-4 times per year for the cell count, and gave up cheese :-\ for the cholesterol profile. My doc monitors my chemistry regularly, so things can be caught early if something goes seriously awry.
I've only been on for a year, and I'm in my late 20s. But my medical stats have actually all improved on T. I'm not sure how much it has to do with the T or the fact that I'm making a more conscious effort to get healthy for bottom surgery.
I see no one has mentioned cancer risks which is a huge debbie downer. Anytime you administer hormone replacement the risk of cancer is always increased no matter what hormone your replacing. There is much more medical research on hormone replacement therapy for middle aged people receiving replacement hormones due to not producing enough to maintain muscle/bone mass (esp in post-menopausal females) That's where I've done most of my clinical research reading. I'm not sure if more risk added when you're administering hormones to a level that aren't a "replacement" (i.e. for ppl like us who are have normal levels and receiving hormones for transitioning) For example when bio males take extra testosterone run huge cancer risk *cough* lance armstrong *cough* lol sorry had to throw that in their. Again sorry for the debbie downer. I hope to do my own clinical research in this area myself one day.
Yes, I read about cancer risks as well. And I also agree that there is some confusion/conflation between the two groups: people taking hormones as a replacement and those in transition. I've been reading all types of materials about FTM/MTF groups (including some clinical materials), and my overall sense is that the cardiovascular risks are more visible. Cancer risks seem to be more speculative and are based on very little evidence.
Quote from: space.cowboy261 on January 01, 2016, 12:04:30 PM
I see no one has mentioned cancer risks which is a huge debbie downer. Anytime you administer hormone replacement the risk of cancer is always increased no matter what hormone your replacing. There is much more medical research on hormone replacement therapy for middle aged people receiving replacement hormones due to not producing enough to maintain muscle/bone mass (esp in post-menopausal females) That's where I've done most of my clinical research reading. I'm not sure if more risk added when you're administering hormones to a level that aren't a "replacement" (i.e. for ppl like us who are have normal levels and receiving hormones for transitioning) For example when bio males take extra testosterone run huge cancer risk *cough* lance armstrong *cough* lol sorry had to throw that in their. Again sorry for the debbie downer. I hope to do my own clinical research in this area myself one day.
Pretty much any substance that exists people can say will cause cancer. When it comes down to hormones, you can be miserable in the ones given at the first puberty to supposedly reduce a risk of cancer and end up getting cancer anyway. On the other hand you can get hormones to have a second puberty and be happy and supposedly get an increased risk of cancer. Either way you may or may not get cancer in the end. It is the state of mind and body up until the end that matters.
The latest version of the WPATH standards of care has a table summarizing the health risks of hormone therapy for MTFs and FTMs. The table references just four types of cancer (breast cancer for MTFs, and breast, cervical, ovarian, and uterine cancer for FTMs. It states that there is "[n]o increased risk or inconclusive [results]" for all of these. Compared to the risks that have come with hating myself for my entire pre-transition life, that doesn't worry me in the least.
I found this well-researched, comprehensive list of medical changes on T here (http://t-saurus-rex.tumblr.com/post/131027137069/more-changes-on-testosterone-hrt-for-ftm) (http://(http://t-saurus-rex.tumblr.com/post/131027137069/more-changes-on-testosterone-hrt-for-ftm))
Great. Thanks for the link!
http://t-saurus-rex.tumblr.com/post/131027137069/more-changes-on-testosterone-hrt-for-ftm
I definitely wouldn't say cancer is not 'speculative' for those taking hormones. The evidence is overwhelmingly risky for hormone replacement therapy. Since I'm at university I have access to more data bases than most people do. Sadly I don't have permission to post them online as I do not own the articles. Again there is less research on mtf and ftm replacement therapy especially over a long term study like 20 years, I do realize that, but the way it works is the same.
You should read some pub med articles on hormone replacement therapy, they are FREE and a wealth of information. It wouldn't be wise to say the risk isn't substantial. I read a lot of research and I know quite a bit about how hormones work inside cells inside the body and what happens when extra things are added in. AGAIN I am not saying hormone replacement therapy is bad and ppl shouldn't do it. I am just saying realize the true risk and fight for a healthier way. Or get into research and help me find a better way!
If you still don't believe me I can draw some pictures about how hormone replacement therapy can cause havoc on a cell at a molecular level.
QuoteYou should read some pub med articles on hormone replacement therapy, they are FREE and a wealth of information.
Links?
There are tons if you just type into google " pub med hormone replacement therapy " or go to pubmed.com
I found this one in a jiffy. Here's one on men with Low T doing replacement http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26204632 That one says it certainly stimulates the growth of prostate cancer but there are no studies saying it causes it yet. This is why more studies need to be done. More government money needs to be dedicated to medical and health research. Also it's difficult to find enough people for one cohort to do these studies in a long term setting.
This one brings into question earlier research and sort of refutes the last article I gave you. This could be good news for us. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17113983 It's always good to read both sides and get into their materials and methods and question everything.
That pretty much illustrates my point about "inconclusive results." It also shows why we should be careful when generalizing results. It's possible that testosterone replacement therapy carries an increased risk of prostate cancer; there is, however, zero risk of prostate cancer in trans men, which makes those studies irrelevant to this discussion.
No one is disputing the proposition that some hormones increase the risk or affect the growth of particular types of cancer; there's a clear link between estrogen and certain types of breast cancer, for instance. But the question here is whether that's the case for testosterone therapy for trans men. As I said earlier, there's no good evidence that it is, and there's excellent evidence that the risk to life from untreated gender dysphoria is very high.
For someone at high risk for suicide due to gender dysphoria right now, if the price of treating the dysphoria is an unknown risk of cancer 20 years down the road, that's still a very good trade-off.
You've misconstrued my point.
In no way am I saying people shouldn't have the option to do hormone therapy.
But it is not nice to say that those articles are irrelevant when you do not understand the science behind why they are very much so related. It would have been nice if maybe you asked me why. I am very sensitive, I know :(
It would take a long time to explain exactly why they are related and I hate summing up tons of lectures into a couple sentences, but I will give you an idea of why I am pointing toward other hormone therapy experiments.
Yes, even though, as you pointed out, they are working on different organs. They key is how the molecular structure of hormones. It works even the same for estrogen and not only estrogen, but other sterols and 6 carbon ring structures. I'm skipping a lot my profs would kill me but the quick and dirty is basically a sterol it can pass through phospholipid membranes due to its structure and can directly affect the protein transcription.
I hope that helps. And Idk if you've had cancer or had to deal with a family member who suffered horrendous chemotherapy treatments that leave open bloody infected wounds inside and outside the body, but it's not just being nauseated like ppl think. maybe there's better stem cell and genetic options 10 years away and maybe some people would wait a little longer if they understood the risk. I know that's too long for some people. I know some people need hormone replacement therapy right now.
I just want people to say oh, hey, it is risky and then people will begin to demand a better way. Or better yet, maybe I will recruit more scientists!! I didn't mean to upset you, I think you might have thought I didn't want ppl doing hormone therapy at all.
If I were to get cancer and die next year I would consider that a good trade for HRT releasing me from the mental purgatory I was in even if that release was only for a short time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm at high risk for breast and ovarian cancer as things are, so it could be that I will further increase that risk with T. However, the studies are inconclusive, having read what little there is that actually exists covering transmen in particular. Furthermore, in the end, I'm going to have my, heh, excess organs removed. Which will lower the risk. Plus, there's the net benefit of not being absolutely miserable for the rest of life, however long that may be.
Quote from: ...when you do not understand the science behind why they are very much so related.
And you make this assumption why? I'm fairly well qualified to read and evaluate scientific research, as it happens. I used to be on the faculty of a medical school and did research in biomedical science for a good many years, and I currently work as a pre-submission editor of scientific articles.
Shorn of big words like "sterols" and "phospholipid membranes," your point adds up to "hormones affect cellular function and sometimes that's a bad thing." That's trivially true, but it's irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion, which is specifically about the risks which come with testosterone therapy for trans men.
It's the consensus of the experts in the field that for most of us, the benefits far outweigh the potential risks. The WPATH standards go into some detail on this: there are contraindications for HRT, but cancer risk isn't one of them.
You can get cancer from just about anything these days.
Tysilio
I'm sorry that you don't understand the connection. My sentences were written hastily and fast. Saying what I said is "trivially true" is completely incorrect and un-ethical as a scientist for you to say.
I am doing my ethical duty to my beloved fellow humans by thoroughly explaining the risks, which I am disappointed in you as a fellow scientist not doing so thoroughly.
I tried to use the least amount of scientific words possible to get my point across, honestly. You just refuted me so I backed up what I said with facts. I don't want to sound rude, but if you don't know much about phospholipid membranes, how are you doing biomedical research?
These are words we use everyday. Since you are scientist I do not know why you are not understanding me? Maybe you do not have a background in physiology or chemistry background at all? Even my gf who is a nuclear engineer had to take physiology courses and organic chem to do biomedical research. She understands the risks involved with hrt because she had such great organic chemistry and physiology courses.
That's not the only scientific reason for risk evaluation. There are other reasons why that hormone replacement therapy or taking any medication long term is risky. We talked about these risks in my Organic Chemistry course, which I would think you have taken if you are doing biomedical research? We also discussed other possible ways for cancer to happen via fat soluble hormones in my physiology course.
The risk of medicines due to their variance in molecular shape between molecules that look very much the same but are not even though they have the same molecular formula. (I won't say what they are called at risk of using any more big words) These different molecules will all be in one dose of the medicine, but only one of the molecular shapes is needed by the body even though maybe half the bottle is made up of that same formula in a different shape molecule. There is usually many different unneeded versions of the molecule in the medicine. (It's hard to extract completely pure medicine believe me we did this a lot in lab it is tough)
Now we go back to my previous posts where I talked about the ability of hormones to pass through membranes because they are fat soluble. The hormones have to go into the nucleus to print new proteins or other wise taking testosterone would have zero effect so it has to enter the nucleus where your dna is. This is where cancer can happen. Think about what a tumor is. a mass of tons of cells that were "printed" randomly and badly because somewhere the DNA got messed up.
Now you have all these different molecules entering the nucleus because no medicine is pure (even good quality medicine it's just too expensive) effecting your dna and your body has to try to deal with all of it. You do have natural ways of taking care of unwanted molecules. We as humans naturally fight pathogens and cancer, but one body can only take so much. It has to get rid of the molecules it doesn't need or which takes up a lot of your bodies natural defenses and leaves your immune system vulnerable. Those extra molecules don't just disappear, they must be dealt with and they are most certainly not all friendly. you also run the risk of one of the odd shapes running into a receptor that maybe only you have (just like allergies) and turning on or off a gene that doesn't need to be messed with and bam, cancer.
And for the millionth time, I didn't say ppl shouldn't do hormone therapy at all. Everyone should have the option. I just want people to realize the risk and look for a better way, we could be so close to finding a permanent solution. I've watched so many people suffer horrendously from cancer. It's literally a living hell, and it's also a living hell watching loved ones suffer until the end. It made me change my lifestyle. Again I know this doesn't matter to some people. I'm just trying to help people just like me.
Mod Edit- taking offense and attacking a user is against TOS 15.
@Raptorchops
It doesn't have to be that way man. More than 90% of the time it's the environment (and i don't just mean pollution I mean diet and exercise smoking etc) Literally. Check the MDAnderson cancer website for my statistics.
:police:
Okay Folks. Lets please be respectful of each other and don't attack others when we are posting. Thanks
Mariah
Quote15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand. Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.
I think the point that everyone who is against you is trying to make is we are not scientists and don't really give a crap exactly what happens on the molecular level. Everyone knows the risks of T and the benefits before they are allowed to take it.
We can not take T and be miserable or take T and be happy. Cancer is an afterthought that isn't even guaranteed to happen.
I was told by my doctors that the cancer risk with T is only significantly risen with female cancers, such as ovarian, cervical etc, which I wasn't too worried about as due to that I plan to get them removed. And that all other increased risk of cancers just come with the increased risk that males have for some cancers. Is this true?
Quote from: Moneyless on February 16, 2016, 04:07:44 AM
I was told by my doctors that the cancer risk with T is only significantly risen with female cancers, such as ovarian, cervical etc, which I wasn't too worried about as due to that I plan to get them removed. And that all other increased risk of cancers just come with the increased risk that males have for some cancers. Is this true?
Yes.