I've been posting a few topics on this forum. It seems whenever my brain starts malfunctioning and misbehaving, I start a new depressing topic. So here we go again, because I am apparently stubborn and a slow learner.
I am finding it impossible to accept myself as trans. Yet just this last week I've had two dreams, that I can recall, where I was presenting as a woman and when I woke up I just wanted to go back to sleep and re enter the dream. I try to convince myself that is not who I'm supposed to be, that I am a man and that just depresses me.
And then I try to go the other way and tell myself that I am actually trans and that depresses me because if I am truly trans then the last 43 years of my life were a lie and wasted. Which then leads me to think that if I knew I was trans at a young age I never would have met my beautiful wife, but now that we have been married for 14 years I feel like some kind of fraud or liar for not telling her sooner. But I didn't know until a few months ago. See how twisted and confusing my thinking ends up? I get to a point where I can simply no longer process the information and my brain computer spits out an error code, or if you are familiar with older versions of Microsoft Windows, my brain generates the blue screen of death!
I'm stuck in this state of limbo because I can no longer process my thoughts in a manner that makes any sense.
It has been several weeks since I've seen my therapist, and my next appointment is next week. If I go any more than 2 weeks without a therapy session, my brain malfunctions and I end up undoing any progress I made the previous session. Has this happened to anyone else?
Right now I just feel like I'm defective and should have been scrapped before coming off the production line.
J
PS: Sorry for yet another depressing rant.
Sorry to hear what you're going through.
What you're describing is what many of us go through at some stage or another in our lives. I persobally went through it in childhood. I Remember lying down in my bed in my bedroom and crying. I used to ask God "why did you create me a weirdo".
Over the years, the internal conflict has been resolved. I am now a post-op woman living a stealth lifestyle. Transitioning has been the best thing I've ever done!
I would advise you to see a specialised gender therapist to explore who you are and help you are. I would also advise you to seek the support of a local trans group (although this might be difficult in your situation as you are married).
Hugs
Rita
Here are a few resources that could help:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,188309.msg1674885.html#msg1674885
You could try a few things that make you happy...
remembering them might give you joy and energy...
this all is a step by step process, you simply might take the next step...
and if you take it step by step it might not look as big... just the next step...
hugs
That is a huge question to ask...the only answer that worked for me was brutal honesty, forget everyone else just for 5 minutes, think only of yourself and your future...can you just forget about it and get on with your life...No? Can you make it as you are and in a way that it impacts your life less, without causing you further internal hurt, now or in the future? Do you want to live the rest of your life socially as a woman?
Maybe some brutally honest answers for yourself...no one else...I don't expect you to answer them in this public arena because they are for you and the answers are only for you. Maybe the kind of questions you may want to ask yourself without worrying about anyone or anything...once you have answered for yourself those kinds of questions you may in fact have a better idea how you need to proceed... your therapist should be able to help you with the self acceptance thing.
Mine suggested I use personal affirmations to help me gain self acceptance which I hung all over the place in my line of site so I could not approach my computer without reading one
I hope things start to gain some clarity for you
Elizabeth K
Whatever the future holds, the past is not a waste unless you wasted it. Did you waste your past? Or did you make a life? That question really should be pretty easy to answer to yourself. Don't get all hung up on what ifs either. Everybody has what ifs. Even people that aren't trans have what ifs. But did you waste the life you had? No? Then be happy with what you had because it's completely independent of whatever is in the future. If yes, you did really waste it then oh well. You can't change it now so there is no point fretting over it. That is wasted emotion. It's a sunk cost so move on past it. See how easy that is.
Another thing. The past is you too even if it turns out that a lot of it was lived in an elaborately constructed avatar. It's not like some remake of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers where an alien entity lived that life in your body. It was always you all along. Now that you know more, if you want you can begin to deconstruct that avatar. It's still you though.
Just don't get caught in another trap that appears to ensnare some and deconstruct the past avatar only to begin constructing another along some new preconceived notions of how things should be. Just find yourself and be real though that's maybe the hardest part of all if the real has been buried under layer upon layer for a long time. The Greeks wrote it over 2000 years ago, "Know Thyself."
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Quote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 03:11:43 AM
And then I try to go the other way and tell myself that I am actually trans and that depresses me because if I am truly trans then the last 43 years of my life were a lie and wasted. Which then leads me to think that if I knew I was trans at a young age I never would have met my beautiful wife, but now that we have been married for 14 years I feel like some kind of fraud or liar for not telling her sooner.
You cannot change the past. You can dwell on it all you like and run "might-have-been"s round and round your head until you are dizzy but it will change nothing.
"Now" is happening to you at this moment and by the time "now" has happened it is too late to change it.
That leaves you "The Future". You can alter that.
What you need to be thinking about is not the past, but how you want to live the
rest of your life. Forget the past. Start discussing the future and how you will live it and how you will be better than you are now and how you will make other people's lives better. There will be downs as well as ups and your responsibility is to try and have more ups than downs. It might not work but I guarantee you that
if you do not try then it definitely will not workQuote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 03:11:43 AMRight now I just feel like I'm defective and should have been scrapped before coming off the production line.
I understand how you feel because I have been there. However, defective things can be fixed so why not start the process of becoming less defective? You know what solutions exist and you simply have to move forward because standing still is clearly not working for you.
We're just unlucky in some ways.
Doesn't mean you can't be lucky in other ways. There's lots of reasons I feel like I wasted my best years, trans may be one of them, but then there's anxiety and lack of confidence, lack of knowledge and being socially stunted until I finally learned how to socialize with the best of them. Is there any point dwelling on that and blaming something for it? Dwelling on the fact I didn't have the perfect family, perfect start in life or perfect brain or body? Nothing is perfect, but that's no reason not to live life to the full now.
I feel for you. I know from personal experience how truly debilitating this self-doubt and being unsure of yourself can be.
Though I've learned that deep down, you always know who you truly are and what you really want from life. If you are dreaming about being a woman, and you truly feel that deep down you are, then I think you have you're answer. Of course I can never tell you for certain. Only you can. But please just forget all the pressure that society puts on you, and you put on yourself, and ask yourself truly: "How do I feel? Do I feel that I am a man or a woman? Or neither? And therein lies your answer. Just follow that. And only then will you learn to be happy with yourself :)
Deborah you put it so well it resonated with me I am at a point near jaynes while I have accepted that I am not a man I am unsure where I am a woman or somewhere inbetween
clairity comes slowly and a little at a time but I just gotta be me I failed miserably at being someone else
bobbisue
Jayne,
I'm totally in the same boat, as I've said before. I've always liked women's panties, and worn them, and shaved my body, and a million other feminine things, but I refused to accept that I was trans. I denied and denied it, even when my wife would accuse me of wanting to be a woman. I'd deny it to her, and to myself.
We've been married about 19 years, have 3 amazing children, and this year, as I turned 41, I've felt this stress, like time is slipping away fast. She kept pointing out how unhappy I seem, and as I thought about it, while I love my life, I don't love myself. I don't like this masculine me. So I finally accepted being trans.
The problem is, now, do I transition, or not? If I do, I know I'll lose her, and maybe the kids. I'm currently in the weighing costs vs. benefits phase. Plus I have my responsibilities to the family I can't just shirk...
So I do things that make me feel better, more feminine. Been wearing feminine bracelets, bras, and breast forms, and growing my nails. But then, sometimes I look at myself, and I see this 41 yr old bald guy with boobs and I feel stupid. I get disgusted with myself, and feel like, who am I fooling? Me or the world?
Then I tend to get down on myself, and try to convince myself I can just get "over" being trans, although I've not been able to for 41 years. So, know you're not alone in this. It's a horrible cycle to get stuck in.
Thank you all for your replies. I can't imagine living as a woman. I have no point of reference. I've never been a woman so I have no idea how to be one. I'm also clearly not much of a man, so that just leaves me as being nothing.
And to top off my down mood, I just overhead some people at work talking about lesbians in a derogatory manor which then led to talking about gay men and then referring to transsexuals as something sick worthy of throwing up. It's not unexpected because I work in a 99.999% male dominated engineering industry, but hearing them speak that way did not make me feel good. I wanted to say something but I'm afraid I might out myself, so I just kept my mouth shut and left the room. It all just reconfirmed that the majority of the human race is nothing more than a disease on this planet. The good people of the world are definitely a minority, that is my personal experience anyway. I can't even change jobs. My field is too specialised and there is nowhere else I could work.
So right now, life just sucks and I would very much like a hole to open up beneath me and suck me up. I could never live as a transsexual because no one would accept me in my current place unless I give up the only job I am qualified to do. I have not 1 single friend outside of my work, and my work friends are more like acquaintances anyway.
Life just sucks! I should have killed myself when I was young the first time I ever considered suicide. The world is over populated anyway, so that would have been me doing my bit to reduce the population. I don't have anything to offer anybody. I cause hurt to my wife when she sees me upset, but I have no idea how to be happy.
Why does it have to be such a huge effort just to exist? It shouldn't have to be that way.
Sorry, I'm just feeling really down. I didn't need to overhear that conversation at work. It has upset me a lot.
J
Sorry about my last post. I just needed to vent. I feel a little better now. Being trans s a curse. There is nothing good about it. I just need to find some way to make the best out of a crappy condition. I need to keep reminding myself that it's like having cancer or a brain tumour. I don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.
J
Well, you could always think of transition as a fresh start in life. And you don't have to be shackled to one job for life. I've left tons of jobs because they weren't right for me (and I have more than one degree... guess I just didn't want to be tied down to one path in life, and why should you be?) - I have simple needs and few ties so I can do that, but you could also do that too if you gave yourself the chance. You don't sound happy there... ask yourself why you can't do the things you want. Why you really can't do them...? What's stopping you?
I know a lot of people who sat back and lived in a situation they were not happy with because it was just easier to go with the flow. And then they became old and died, and I always felt crap thinking of the life they must have lived because it was just easier in the eyes of other people for them to do so. I never understood that, maybe because my life was always difficult and awkward and uncomfortable from the get-go... I don't even know what sitting back and going with the flow is. But still, who says you have to fulfil this prophecy of being there forever? Only one person decides: you.
I actually love my job. I like the work. Some of the people say things that would only be said around other guys. I usually just ignore them, but occasionally they say something and I can't speak against them due fear of outing myself. That upsets me. And I don't want the reason I would change jobs to be due to others making me uncomfortable even though I love the actual work.
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 02:37:50 PM
Being trans s a curse. There is nothing good about it. I just need to find some way to make the best out of a crappy condition. I need to keep reminding myself that it's like having cancer or a brain tumour. I don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.
Several years ago I would have agreed. Not anymore. I understand you feel rather crap about this but a lot of it is about how you approach it. Is it a curse, or an opportunity? I believe the latter. You can indeed make the best out of it, unfortunately other people will try to make it hell (therein lies the true difficulty in being trans, cis social attitudes). You're right, you can't do much about the fact that you are trans - denial just makes you feel worse. What you can do though is try to work out how you deal with it in a way that benefits you and gives you some sense of peace and happiness. That doesn't mean you have to transition - there will be ways you can work with yourself through your therapist that may resolve your dysphoria and depression. :)
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 06:58:42 PM
I actually love my job. I like the work. Some of the people say things that would only be said around other guys. I usually just ignore them, but occasionally they say something and I can't speak against them due fear of outing myself.
That stuff bothers me a lot too and I used to also remain quiet out of fear. Then one day I couldn't stay quiet any longer. So I started speaking up, sometimes lightheartedly and sometimes seriously. I don't get hostile or disrespectful though. My fear of being outed was misplaced unless they have it figured out but don't say anything. Mostly they just call me a liberal which even that I wear openly now with a smile on my face. Really it hasn't had any negative effect at all on my work relationships. It has even maybe made a little difference. One guy was complaining about special rights for LGBT so I calmly explained the right to not be fired, and the right to not be refused a place to live, and the right not to be denied medical care. He actually agreed with those things after he knew what they were.
My workplace too is very conservative with probably 80% or more being Christian conservative Republicans (mostly Army and retired Army). Maybe the Army part makes a difference as there is a bond and shared experience there that transcends politics and even religion.
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Thanks Grace and Deborah.
Grace, what you say makes a lot of sense. Treating this as an opportunity rather than a curse would definitely make life better. But to start treating this as the opportunity that it may well be would first mean that I have to accept myself as being trans. REALLY accepting myself. That is where I have hit a brick wall. I go through phases of telling myself that, yes I am trans, but I'm not sure I actually believe myself. I might just be paying myself lip service!
Deborah, you may be right. My fear of being outed might be a fear based on an imagined reality in my head. It might not be as bad as imagine it to be. It's the aircraft engineer in me that always considers the worst case scenario when making decisions at work. That mindset makes its way into my personal life and can sometimes hold me back. Also, as I mentioned above, I think I first need to get over the hurdle if truly accepting myself. I can hardly expect others to accept me if I don't even accept myself :)
J (Jayne?? I guess I kind of feel a little Jayneish :) )
I would advice you to read Katie Byron's book "Loving Shat Is" it is a wonderful book that helps you challenge your stressful thoughts, which are usually unfounded, and ghereford see clearer and be at peace with yourself.
Best of luck
Rita
Thank Rita. I'll check it out.
One of the first rules of problem solving is "If what you are doing does not work then try something else". It does not matter what you try because what you are doing right now does not work so stop doing it. Trying to "man up" or deny yourself seems to be failing you so it is time to try a different strategy. The obvious next thing to try is starting a transition.
Let us get one thing clear - transition is SLOW. Very slow. Like 3 to 5 years slow. There is plenty of time to think things through or change your mind or stop. I took three years from my name change to surgery and I spent a year living as female before I started HRT because I wanted to be sure that I could do it. I thought that HRT would be irreversible quite quickly when in reality I was on them about 8 months before things were noticeably different. For me, just starting to live as female helped relieve the dysphoria very quickly although it did introduce me to another kind of stress :)
If transition does not work then you can stop it and look for other strategies, but I guarantee that if you do not try it then you will never know if it is the answer to your problem. Remember Mark Twain's dictum "You are more likely to regret the things left untried than to regret the things you did"
Quote from: pyhxbp on December 30, 2015, 03:34:38 AM
One of the first rules of problem solving is "If what you are doing does not work then try something else". It does not matter what you try because what you are doing right now does not work so stop doing it. Trying to "man up" or deny yourself seems to be failing you so it is time to try a different strategy. The obvious next thing to try is starting a transition.
Let us get one thing clear - transition is SLOW. Very slow. Like 3 to 5 years slow. There is plenty of time to think things through or change your mind or stop. I took three years from my name change to surgery and I spent a year living as female before I started HRT because I wanted to be sure that I could do it. I thought that HRT would be irreversible quite quickly when in reality I was on them about 8 months before things were noticeably different. For me, just starting to live as female helped relieve the dysphoria very quickly although it did introduce me to another kind of stress :)
If transition does not work then you can stop it and look for other strategies, but I guarantee that if you do not try it then you will never know if it is the answer to your problem. Remember Mark Twain's dictum "You are more likely to regret the things left untried than to regret the things you did"
Sorry, I made a typing mistake. The book is called "Loving What Is". Also, Katie Byron has videos on youtube about decision making a'd how to deal with stress, anxiety and depression. She's been on Opera and some other major tv programmes.
Rita
Quote from: ElizabethK on December 29, 2015, 04:12:25 AM
That is a huge question to ask...the only answer that worked for me was brutal honesty, forget everyone else just for 5 minutes, think only of yourself and your future...can you just forget about it and get on with your life...No? Can you make it as you are and in a way that it impacts your life less, without causing you further internal hurt, now or in the future? Do you want to live the rest of your life socially as a woman?
Maybe some brutally honest answers for yourself...no one else...I don't expect you to answer them in this public arena because they are for you and the answers are only for you. Maybe the kind of questions you may want to ask yourself without worrying about anyone or anything...once you have answered for yourself those kinds of questions you may in fact have a better idea how you need to proceed... your therapist should be able to help you with the self acceptance thing.
Mine suggested I use personal affirmations to help me gain self acceptance which I hung all over the place in my line of site so I could not approach my computer without reading one
I hope things start to gain some clarity for you
Elizabeth K
Ahhhh Brutal Honesty. But how honest is 'Honest'? If you aren't asking or thinking of the hardest questions to ask yourself, answers come easy. Perhaps this why seeing the therapist helps. You are asked things you'd rather not ask yourself. When you try to voice an answer suddenly you begin thinking/processing it differently.
I spent a good couple of years after the initial epiphany on tackling the trans-beast before I fully accepted that I am, to actually OWN it, when a bolt of lightning hit me for the umpteenth time I said "I know I am transgender". Prior to that it was a lot of self-help books, angels in support group, plenty of sleepless nights, and my Reality Therapist, aka wife to get me to that point
It seems to me that if I was to truly accept myself it would be accepting something that I absolutely DO NOT want! I do not want to be trans. Not even a little tiny bit. I want to be a normal guy. So in order to be happy, I have to give up trying for what I want and just accept what I don't want. How could that make me happy? I'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy. Have I missed something here? Am I getting this all wrong?
J
I never thought of it like that. In my mind it has always been "I am what I am." So I skipped over all the hating myself and acceptance part and just devised ways to cope until I was ready and able to do more. But that doesn't help you at all.
I may be wrong but it seems to me that you are viewing it as a disease, something malignant that must be excised. But since it isn't that at all this viewpoint is only going to lead to increased frustration that will just continue to build steam.
So maybe you just need to accept that the condition is an inherent part of who you are, neither good nor bad and possessing no moral quality of its own. It just is.
That doesn't mean that you have to transition or think of yourself as a woman or anything else. It just means you can start by not hating yourself.
Then, since you know how you want to live figure out the minimum you need to do to relieve the dysphoria when it pops up. What coping strategy will work? That doesn't even necessarily mean cross dressing or things of that nature. Just things that keep your mind and body focused elsewhere. I expect this is probably an individual thing but extreme physical fitness has worked for me in the past for pretty long periods of time.
But the first thing you need to do is just stop hating yourself for something you did not do nor cause and which in and of itself is a moral neutral.
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I am viewing this as a disease or illness or something like that. I keep comparing it to cancer or an inoperable brain tumour. It seems to be the only way I can accept it. But it doesn't help in accepting that it is happening to ME! I was brought up in a sheltered home. I was even afraid to make friends at school because they might be "bad" people. I'm sure that has totally screwed with the way I am. I've never had any friends. I have never even met anyone that is gay or trans. Those people have something "wrong" with them. That's not what I believe, but that's the message I got growing up. So that is probably why I'm viewing this as an illness or disease. Sometimes I just wish I never existed. I don't see the point of life. People are so full of hate!
J
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 05:29:20 PM
I am viewing this as a disease or illness or something like that. I keep comparing it to cancer or an inoperable brain tumour. It seems to be the only way I can accept it. But it doesn't help in accepting that it is happening to ME! I was brought up in a sheltered home. I was even afraid to make friends at school because they might be "bad" people. I'm sure that has totally screwed with the way I am. I've never had any friends. I have never even met anyone that is gay or trans. Those people have something "wrong" with them. That's not what I believe, but that's the message I got growing up. So that is probably why I'm viewing this as an illness or disease. Sometimes I just wish I never existed. I don't see the point of life. People are so full of hate!
J
It seems to me that you asked question ( how to accept muself?) here to kind of perpetuate the fruitless internal debate you're having, not to take feedback on board and try to.move on.
In fact. Saying you view trans as being comparable to having cancer or a tumour, after all the helpful replies you've had from trans people here can be offensive to.many us here.
Only a gender speciiste can help you see clearer. Asking a question to just assert your internal insecurities seems to be counter-productive to me. Going in circles and reaffirming unfounded statements despite all the helpful perspectives you've had makes me think your aim is to perpetuate and rationalise your own worries, not to try and move on!
Rita
I realise that comparing trans to cancer and tumours is offensive. And I never intended to offend anyone, I was only referring to how my stupid head operates. The way I was brought up, telling me I am trans is the same as telling me the sky is not blue. I cannot process that. Hence my huge struggle at acceptance of myself. There must be some other explanation to me being the way I am.
I wasn't really offended and knew what you meant. But really, the gateway to feeling better is simply accepting what is. After that you can rationally plan what you want and need to do about it remembering that there is no single solution or path set in stone.
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Thanks Deborah. The last thing I want to do is offend anyone.
When you say simply accepting what is, do you mean just flick a switch in my head and suddenly I accept? Accepting would have to come before planning any kind of action, right?
Is it really as simple as flicking a switch to accept yourself, I mean REALLY accept?
J
I think Jayne was replying to my comment. Not yours. It was me who said comparing being trans to having cancer can be offensive to.many of us on here.
Rita
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:17:46 PM
When you say simply accepting what is, do you mean just flick a switch in my head and suddenly I accept? Accepting would have to come before planning any kind of action, right?
Is it really as simple as flicking a switch to accept yourself, I mean REALLY accept?
No one has asked you to switch a button to accept yourself. From the helpful replies I can see on here, you've bern offered lots of helpful tips/ advice from people Shrarng their own experiences on how they managed to accept themselves to consulting with a gender therapist/seeking support from a trans group to suggesting some helpful literature.
If after all this you still compare trans to having cancer(even though you don't mean to offend), and state that it's not about flicking a switch button to accept yourself then I really see the point of asking the question and having this debate. sweetie!
Best of luck!
Rita
J
Yes I was replying to your post Rita. If I have offended you or anyone else I apologise. That was not my intention.
J
If only it were as easy as flicking a switch. I expect though, that you, being an engineer, look at it through a mechanistic lens, comparing how things are to how they are supposed to be when operating properly.
So, from a purely naturalistic perspective things are not working as the blueprint intends. That is true. However, if you break down the system you might see it differently.
Your body is working as intended. And your mind actually is too. There isn't a thing wrong with either of them when examined in isolation. The problem is a perfectly normal mind in a perfectly normal, but wrong, body. That is the source of the dysphoria.
We even know pretty much why this happens and it happens prenatally.
So, since your body is normal and your mind is normal there is nothing to fix. Changing the mind into what it is not is impossible and would probably be unethical since you, as you, would cease to exist.
You have two perfectly normal parts and they are mismatched. That is what is. So, accept your normalcy for what it is and then you can figure out what to do about the mismatch.
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Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Yes I was replying to your post Rita. If I have offended you or anyone else I apologise. That was not my intention.
Whether you meant to offend or not, it is still offensive especially after all the tips you've bren given.
My point is, what's the.point of asking for advice when in fact you prefer to dwell on your own perspective and reaffirm your own initial perspective?
Rita
J
Sorry Rita. We are clearly not understanding each other here. I am trying to find some answers that work for me. Everybody is different and what works for one does not necessarily work for another. Maybe acceptance came easy for you. Maybe it didn't. I don't know. All I know is that is not coming easy to me.
I will leave this conversation now so that I no longer say anything wrong. Once again please accept my apology for offending you.
J
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:50:08 PM
Sorry Rita. We are clearly not understanding each other here. I am trying to find some answers that work for me. Everybody is different and what works for one does not necessarily work for another. Maybe acceptance came easy for you. Maybe it didn't. I don't know. All I know is that is not coming easy to me.
I will leave this conversation now so that I no longer say anything wrong. Once again please accept my apology for offending you.
J
Come on J don't be like that, we genuinely want to help and I am sure it is not meant in that way.
The first thing I did to help myself gain acceptance was to stop bull->-bleeped-<-ting myself...stop talking to myself in riddles and only in the stuff I new to be true. I knew I didn't ask to be this way, I knew I was born this way, I knew that all the stuff I tried in the past never worked to "cure" me, I knew my own tricks like...as long as I didn't admit the truth then it couldn't be true. Brutal unrelenting honesty with myself until I broke it down to a point where I realised that to be happy and comfortable in my own skin meant I had to accept that I didn't want to pretend to be a guy anymore...i
Questions you might ask yourself, what don't I accept about myself, what do I accept about myself, if I consider no other person living apart from myself...what do I want?, Do I want to live in society as a woman? Do I have a choice considering how distraught and stressed I am at the moment, Do I want to transition....but maybe start with the few of the easier questions. It sounds to me you are having difficulty accepting because part of it is you really don't or haven't articulated what it is YOU want to do.
I hope that helps in some small way...you are a worthwhile person and being trans is only one part of you!
Elizabeth K
Thanks Elizabeth. But right now I feel like a worthless piece of ->-bleeped-<- and would very much like to cease existing. I am so confused that nothing in my head is making sense. Maybe I just need to take a time out and let my mind settle down because at the moment my mind is not responding to any kind of reasoning.
I feel hurt by comments that were intended to help me. I'm just not in a good place right now. There is obviously something wrong with me.
J
:police:
Jayne is having a hard time.
We all have hard times and finding ourselves is often the hardest step to take.
I would like everyone to pull back and be respectful.
If you cannot contribute positively well don't.
Jayne needs support not "Oh wake up and accept it' advice.
I hope you can all realise that.
Cindy
No need to be sorry about it. We all have to sometimes. It's important that we express what we are going through hand especially what we are feeling. I know it may seem like a curse now but you may find that it isn't such a curse in the future. I hope that is the case for you. For me the friendships I have made since transitioning are fare more meaningful and genuine than any I had coming into it. Anyway please hang in there. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 02:37:50 PM
Sorry about my last post. I just needed to vent. I feel a little better now. Being trans s a curse. There is nothing good about it. I just need to find some way to make the best out of a crappy condition. I need to keep reminding myself that it's like having cancer or a brain tumour. I don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.
J
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 04:07:19 PM
It seems to me that if I was to truly accept myself it would be accepting something that I absolutely DO NOT want! I do not want to be trans. Not even a little tiny bit. I want to be a normal guy. So in order to be happy, I have to give up trying for what I want and just accept what I don't want. How could that make me happy? I'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy. Have I missed something here? Am I getting this all wrong?
J
Aww honey, you can't get your own life wrong :( Or you can, you could be a nasty person or something but you don't come across that way. And the work thing? Eeew >:( Come and work with us girls who sit at computers all day - you'll lose money, status and power but we are really nice ;)
Actually that is something to think about - being female isn't as easy for a whole load of reasons; mostly man related. The horrid sounding ones at your work get cursed with living out their lives that way but they do get to run the world as compensation - or that's how I see it ;)
A lot of people so far have been talking about logic, which I've never liked!! You, personally, aren't a problem - you are a wonderful living thing of almost unknowable complexity. I think it's maybe time to turn inwards. After all, and I'm so sorry to say it, but you come across as maybe depressed.
Now in my case I'm far happier than ever but only because, when I was living through sad times, the depression was caused by not transitioning. If, like me, that's true for you then it might go away.
If you are feeling like that for a different reason then transition might not have any effect. It's a funny one in that, I've found, transition does offer the opportunity to create a new life for yourself but you have to work SO hard to do it. It also has to be the life you want... I mean, do you truly want to be female or are there changes you could make to have a happy guy life. The second one is no doubt easier in practice but possibly more difficult in principle. Transition is the closest any of us can come to a new start: new name, new looks, new personality and stuff like that.
Really, for me, you need to know enough about yourself to find out what causes the unhappiness. Is it really that you're not living as a woman; or is it that guy life hasn't worked out yet but could with some changes? I don't know, but then I don't know much lol ;) You haven't mentioned anything else about wanting a girl's life either - but maybe that's something more private to you?
Thank you all for being so kind.
It's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with. That is part of the reason I am having such a hard time accepting myself. I don't want to change my life, but I can't have a different body with the same life. Society doesn't allow that. So I have no idea what to do.
*
Jayne:
Cindy is correct. There is nothing 'wrong' with you.
You were ingrained by people who indoctrinated you with foul ideas. As you posted, you are now working hard to overcome their damage they did to your self-worth. You are uniquely good unto your self, however you are.
Yes. Take a step back from those bad messages and open your self to the good messages. Take time to explore your self and acknowledge your self-worth as a human being. I care for you as I am certain all others here care for you in each their own way.
Huggss from Sharon.
*
Thank you. :)
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 02:25:56 AM
Thank you all for being so kind.
It's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with. That is part of the reason I am having such a hard time accepting myself. I don't want to change my life,
OK... let me try and put this in some sort of context. What you say (up there ^^^^) is correct. I fully understand why you are saying it because I felt the same way. I do not want to be trans. I know of nobody who wanted it. I know of nobody who enjoyed it. Even now, post-surgery and living fulltime as a woman 24/7/365 I do not revel in my "trans-ness". I would have been much happier if it had never occurred to me and if I could have carried on being a blokey-bloke.
I was never given the choice.
I went through lakes of tears. I yelled "
Why me?" until I was hoarse. I suppressed it and denied and tortured myself until I finally realised that the only choice I had was the second-best one. I eventually reached the point were being trans was the least bad option. It was never a good option. There was a huge dose of fear as well. This would be a complete leap into the unknown, I could lose everything, face years of ridicule and wind up in some sort of half-way position neither one thing nor the other.
When the pain, hurt and bewilderment of denial outweighed the fear of transition then I was ready to begin.
What you are going through is no different. It may vary in the details but many of us here recognise the painful path you are on. But there is something of an upside too. I still dislike being trans and I doubt that will ever change but my internal war has stopped. My family and friends saw the change in me as the slow descent into moody, self-destructive hell slowed, stopped and then reversed.
My body will always have vestiges of maleness about it because no one can live for 5 decades with testosterone sloshing through their veins and then lose all the effects of that by swapping to oestrogen. I have a huge fear of surgery so Facial surgery is not going to happen and GRS nearly did not happen. My hair will always be thin and weedy. Put next to a natal female I wonder how anyone can ever mistake me for a woman and yet they do. People who have found out have been utterly shocked and one just refused to believe me. They must all be blind .... or maybe like most trans folk, I judge myself too harshly.
In spite of all that, in spite of all those downsides, I am happier and more content that I have ever been in my life. There is no way back to maleness for me now, detransition is inconceivable to me. I am where I am and I have a chance to have a
different outlook on life, but it is still my life.
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 02:25:56 AM
but I can't have a different body with the same life. Society doesn't allow that. So I have no idea what to do.
What you have written up there ^^^^ is wrong. Plain and simply wrong. Unless you are in some backward society where women are used as incubators and beaten and uneducated and regarded as barely human then you get to choose your life. Outside the constraints of physical strength, women can do anything men can do, should they choose to do so.
I mostly do the same things I did before. Some of them I have
chosen not to continue with and I also have
chosen to do some things I never did before. I am just as smart as I ever was and I am a LOT more empathetic and patient.
Any transition depends a lot on attitude and if you are determined that transition is a dead end cul-de-sac then that is what it will turn out to be, but if you are determined for it to be a success then it will be a success.
I hope you can pick something out of that lot to help you. Good luck with whatever you decide andI hope that 2016 works out better for you.
pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything? Or whether there is something else I can do to tame the dysphoria/depression. I can't even distinguish between dysphoria and depression anymore. I don't know if one is causing the other or what!
If the dysphoria hits me and I don't get depressed, then I think I have some chance at beating it, but then other times it is like my whole world is collapsing on me.
I do know that going more than about 2 weeks without seeing my therapist, I end up going nuts(like I am now). Unfortunately with The holiday season it has been unavoidable. I have been trying to stay strong but today I just broke down. Luckily I only need to hold out till Tuesday when I see her again. She will have her work cut out for her!
J
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 05:11:57 AM
pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything?
In my opinion, there would be something wrong with you if you where not scared of transitioning. It is a HUGE upheaval and you WILL lose some people. We all do. I lost very few and even one of those seems to be coming round but some have it much worse and lose lots. Nonetheless if you can be positive and decide to make any transition a success then you will make new friends and probably more than you will lose.
Whatever you decide it will still be your life and you will have choices. For me the turning point was when I decided that I no longer cared what strangers thought of me - since they were strangers I would likely never see again then why concern myself with their opinion of me? That realisation boosted my self-confidence and ever since that day my transition has been largely trouble free. Self belief is somehow visible to others, we radiate it outwards (ask your therapist) and it attracts others. It somehow becomes charisma.
Hopefully your therapist will help on Tuesday. I suspect that you have a lot to talk about :)
I know a lot of MtF trans people who fought hard to be accepted as a guy, who did not want to change their lives and wanted to avoid transition at all costs. My girlfriend and myself are in this group as well. I spent 10 years processing all the things before I made a move to start the changes and I'm moving slow but moving forward.
I was terrified of what might happen and I am still terrified of some things to come but I move forward a little every day and the world did not collapse yet. If you try to predict the future in this state of mind you will end up conjuring up the worst possible scenarios all the time which brings you down further.
As I am an engineer as well I analyzed the situation from every possible angle, tried to rationalize everything I did or wanted to do and in the end I ended up throwing almost all the rational thoughts aside to allow my feelings to guide me because I found that I can rationalize anything, even very destructive things.
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 05:11:57 AM
pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything? Or whether there is something else I can do to tame the dysphoria/depression. I can't even distinguish between dysphoria and depression anymore. I don't know if one is causing the other or what!
Questions I sure wrestle with. I have adapted the I am thankful I do not
NEED to transition. For now my 'Management' techniques are working (mostly). Accepting that I am trans. Doing the hard work to shed (some or most) the shame and guilt. I admit HRT and an AA also has a lot to do with it. I also have a body I am basically happy to live in. Even living as a male. Though I do have bad days too. Is it the GD? Plain ole depression due to other life issues? One aggravating the other? Does it matter? Do you know anyone who doesn't have a 'Bad Day'?
QuoteIf the dysphoria hits me and I don't get depressed, then I think I have some chance at beating it, but then other times it is like my whole world is collapsing on me.
Same here falling back on old thinking that through the shear force of will AND knowing what I do now I can really really beat it this time. Other times it's "Where did I put that application for the 'Transition or Die' club. I want the pain to end.
To which I remind myself "I know what does not work" After 40 plus years even thick headed obstinate me figured it out. I also know cutting and running is not going to stop ALL that is burdening me. I still have a wife, our shared hopes and dreams, financial obligations, moral obligations, and adding to all that the risk of eventually loosing so much that a full transition can bring. As I said so far I mostly do not need to transition fully. I may need to further tweak how I manage my GD like part-time living, ahead of schedule.
My wife says there are at least 5 possible solutions to a problem. I usually am good for 2, always having a Plan B. Often times a Plan C.
Jayne certainly needs support. However, my point is if you're asking for support then at least try to explore, take advantage of the ideas/options offered to you. If they don't work for you then fine! At least you tried. I mean, what's the point of asking for support and then not try to try some ideas and keep saying "it's not like a switch button i can press to suddenly accept myself".
None of the helpful replies given above suggest pressing a switch button; on the contrary, many helpful tips have bern offered!
Have you thought about consulting with a gendrer therapist ?
Have you thought about joining an lgbt group?
Have you tried reading the support literature above?
No one said it's easy, Cindy. It certainly wasn't for me. I went through hell. In fact, I tried to commit suicide twice in my life, and glad i'm still alive.
My point is, if you are genuinely asking gor advice/ feedback on how to accept yourself then at least try to explore the answers and try to apply some of what has bddn suggested. Going in circles znd dwelling on thibgs after asking for ideas is never helpful.
I hope you can find peace within yourself one day, and will leave it at that.
Rita
I am seeing a gender therapist for a few months now. It has been several weeks since my last session due to the holiday season, but thankfully my next session is next Tuesday. There are no lgbt groups near me that I can get to. It takes me 1.5 hours just to get to see my therapist and another 1.5 hours to get home. I am doing what I can while still trying to carry on with day to day commitments.
Many of the helpful tips you mention basically suggest I start transitioning or wearing feminine things. That doesn't help me accept myself. Those things are ways to deal with the problem AFTER you have accepted yourself. I am not even close to accepting myself.
We are either in complete disagreement or there has been a huge misunderstanding. Either way, I thank you for trying to offer help and support.
J
You might think about online therapists:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,187135.0.html
hugs
Thanks Laura. I don't mind the travel time to see my therapist. She is very good and I much prefer face to face than on a computer.
Jayne
Check out my thread "Well that just happened", while I don't talk about the battles in my head as you do, I find reading your posts that you struggle with many of the same things I had done before finding peace with who I am. I hope that you can find some peace knowing there are others just like you and that life gets a lot better when you find your own truth
Remember there is no rush, dont put too much pressure on yourself. you are at the beginning of a long journey and as such must take baby steps. Self acceptance regardless if you decide to transition or not is the key. I personally found self acceptance and receive comments from everyone of how much more alive and full of laughter I am. I have not begun transition nor will I until after my last baby is born. But I have finally found peace in accepting me and my choices. I know there is a possibility I won't in the end go through with it if I cannot pass and be someone my wife is proud to call hers. But that's okay to as long as I try for the best me, because for me its about finding the best place for my happiness, the sweetspot I guess we can call regardless if that is all the way or somewhere in between as long as I am being truthful to myself with the f8nal choice of my path.
so what I am saying is you can't ever have all the answers, explore and find out where your happiness is and then be truthful to yourself.
Hi Mavis. Thanks. I just read through your thread. Quite a story. I'm sorry you had to go through so many hardships but I'm glad you finally found your peace.
J
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 12:17:49 PM
.... That doesn't help me accept myself. Those things are ways to deal with the problem AFTER you have accepted yourself. I am not even close to accepting myself.
So how to 'Accept' the Unknown? How well, if at all, do you really know yourself? Is it something you want to accept?
I certainly did not want to accept myself, the 'self' I had become over the years. Reflecting back upon who I was I saw I was a thing I did not want to be. Any wonder I was depressed and angry, unfeeling, and numb? Just a machine that woke each day to do 'What was expected'.
That was when my transition started. A transition from a person I did not want to be to something better. Be it male or female. The me I saw was not the me I felt in my heart I really am. I had no good feel for who that was, just not for me. A ton of self help books and getting in touch with my own spirituality started knocking down the reinforced concrete castle walls I built around me to lock Joanne away but also myself.
I wish I could say it took a good 2 years of hard work to 'Accept' myself. TBH I still do not. Shedding the shame, the guilt, the internalized transphobia has helped. I can actually feel good about the amazing things I have accomplished and been involved with. There are still plenty of things I don't like. Aspects that I haven't a clue on how they can ever be changed so they don't cause the harm they still do today.
Along the journey from where I was several years ago to where I am today I came to accept that I am trans. I came to accept that I
Need to do certain things to manage the GD. To control it rather then it totally controlling me. I refuse to accept that this is as good as it will get for me.
I really understand your reasonings, your fears and your thougts. Let me offer you my humble view.
When I imagine acceptance I can't think of "finding" acceptance. To me acceptance is not located in any place, in any reasoning, in any argument; acceptance is what comes after you searched all through every existing place and you found nothing more than what you had to begin with. For me that's acceptance, it is humble, its not challenging anymore, there's nothing left to challenge when it comes.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as just switching a button, I agree completely with you.
QuoteI don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.
In this words there's a glance of acceptance.
QuoteI'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy.
Is "normal guy" a state that can be changed or archieved? Is within the definition of "normal guy" fighting gender dysphoria feelings? Can be a person considered a "normal guy" (within your concept of it) if this individual suffered gender dysphoria at any time?
QuoteThe way I was brought up, telling me I am trans is the same as telling me the sky is not blue. I cannot process that. Hence my huge struggle at acceptance of myself. There must be some other explanation to me being the way I am.
Do you know about anybody who had discovered any other explanation about the way you are? Since it looks reasonable assuming your inner conflicts with gender idendity don't come out of the blue for no reason... Is there any other feasible answer excluding gender dysphoria in science? Had your therapist told you about any other possibility?
What sounds more simple to you: the way you was brought up causes your refusal of scientific proven evidence and theories about transsexualism vs. the way you was brought up is right without needing any supporting evidence and there must be another explanation for what you're feeling right now?
QuoteIt's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with.
Body and brain unmatching is what transsexualism is. It is ultimately about making those two entities match. Its not about changing your job, your sexual orientation, your social circles, meeting some sort of social standards, your hobbies or your personality. Its not about changing who you are, its about being who you're completely, at all levels. Its about changing your body (or your brain if that was feasible).
QuoteIt's the aircraft engineer in me that always considers the worst case scenario when making decisions at work. That mindset makes its way into my personal life and can sometimes hold me back.
Isn't holding back a de facto decision? Could holding back as a de facto decision lead someone to the worst case scenario or to any other bad situation? Is it even possible to exactly predict yourself (since you're part of this system, you can't draw you from it)?
QuoteThat is where I have hit a brick wall. I go through phases of telling myself that, yes I am trans, but I'm not sure I actually believe myself. I might just be paying myself lip service!
How can you be paying lip service to yourself admitting you're trans when you do not want to be trans?
QuoteI can't speak against them due fear of outing myself. That upsets me.
Is an existence driven and dominated by fear feelings worth?
Jyane you are doing Ok, you asr asking all the hard questions...they need to be asked. Sometime the answers they provide us are not what we want...I agree with you...I don't want to be trans either...but I am. I can't change that...I am who I am....you are a worthwhile person, you have a right to a happy life.
I really like Wednesday's comments regarding "Finding acceptance" they ring a real note with me.
"When I imagine acceptance I can't think of "finding" acceptance. To me acceptance is not located in any place, in any reasoning, in any argument; acceptance is what comes after you searched all through every existing place and you found nothing more than what you had to begin with. For me that's acceptance, it is humble, its not challenging anymore, there's nothing left to challenge when it comes."
I knew I had reached acceptance when the war in my head began to abate and slowly Elizabeth asserted herself and the war is not a war any longer more like an occasional skirmish.
I really hope you can find some peace and happiness...
Elizabeth K
Joanne and Wednesday, thank you for your in depth replies. You have both given me a lot to think about.
Quote from: Wednesday on December 31, 2015, 04:09:01 PM
Do you know about anybody who had discovered any other explanation about the way you are? Since it looks reasonable assuming your inner conflicts with gender idendity don't come out of the blue for no reason... Is there any other feasible answer excluding gender dysphoria in science? Had your therapist told you about any other possibility?
What sounds more simple to you: the way you was brought up causes your refusal of scientific proven evidence and theories about transsexualism vs. the way you was brought up is right without needing any supporting evidence and there must be another explanation for what you're feeling right now?
Wednesday, I understand that medical research has identified links in brain structure and biology to transsexualism. However, as far as I know, there is no scientific test currently available to confirm whether someone is transgender or not. If there is such a test I would very much like to take it to give me the proof I need. As it stands now I only have my internal feelings to tell me what I am. And over the years I have demonstrated to myself time and time again that I often misinterpret my own gut feelings and basically just get it wrong. What I'm trying to say is that I don't trust myself to know what I'm feeling because I so often get it wrong and only realise after I have made some decision based on those feelings. So for something as big and life changing as this.......well, I just don't trust myself.
J
I had doubts for a long time too for some of the same reasons. Also, a lot of my doubts were caused by too much reading of conflicting information on the Internet. It does take a lot of self examination to resolve those doubts. Maybe you can think of a moment or instance where you felt absolute clarity. What were you feeling then? What were the circumstances? Why were you sure at that point? Examine it from every angle.
I had one such moment of absolute clarity so whenever uncertainty creeps in I reference back to that as my baseline. That usually puts things in perspective.
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My doubts were maybe of a different flavor than yours as I desperately wanted the transsexual diagnosis to be true. The reason was because I had no doubt at all about how I felt and any other cause for those feelings was in my mind a whole lot worse. (Like being stark raving mad!!!!)
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Quote from: Tommi on December 29, 2015, 09:44:31 AM
Then I tend to get down on myself, and try to convince myself I can just get "over" being trans, although I've not been able to for 41 years. So, know you're not alone in this. It's a horrible cycle to get stuck in.
Same boat as you. Married for almost 20 years, have one baby, possibly another on the way, in my forties, not sure what I should do. Wife is trying to be understanding. There are boundaries (no breast form in bed, skirts make her queasy, etc...) but she is doing the best she can while I try to figure this out. Can't ask for more than that if I want the marrIage to survive.
Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
Joanne and Wednesday, thank you for your in depth replies. You have both given me a lot to think about.
You're very welcome J.
Sadly I can't offer any definitve answer, but I'll be glad to give you as many questions and thoughts as you need. Besides I really enjoy receiving deep questions and reflecting on them. You look like a very smart and sensitive person, don't hesitate to ask me whatever you want.
And even at the risk of sounding like a meddler myself... I want to say that whether you're trans or not, whether you decide to transition or not... it's really a pity you're letting your fears and isecurities prevent yourself from having friends, meeting new social circles or being more asertive with the people surrounding you. I think the world is missing a truly deep, intelligent, sensitive and wonderful person. Trust me boy, I got one hell of an intuition :P
Quote from: ElizabethK on December 31, 2015, 08:21:03 PM
I really like Wednesday's comments regarding "Finding acceptance" they ring a real note with me.
Thank you girl! Some days I'm somewhat inspired :D
Thank you Wednesday. I don't know for what exact reason I don't have friends. I have never been a very social person and it's kind of got to the point where I simply don't know how to have friends. But that is something for another time. Thanks for your nice words.
J
Jayne,
Thank you for your sweet pvt msg.
I honestly had the impression you have a tendency to dwell on things as a strategy to cope for fear of going in any direction. What I meant to say in short was the "yeah but..." approch can be counter-proctive. Sometimes, you have to grab the bull by its horns and deal with it. That, of course, doesn't necessarily mean you have to transition! Acceptance is a process that has to take place before transitioning. We cannot achieve acceptance through the "yeah but" approach. Plus, sometimes we can achieve acceptance and not transition for some family/ socio-professional.considerations.
I think Ms Grace's experience is a good example of how delaying/ denying can catch up with you sooner or later in life.
Honestly. This is what I meant to say in the first place.I am sorry if I came across as harsh or inconsiderate. That wasn't my intention.
I am glad you bought the book I recommended. It honestly helped me a lot through my dark moments, and I really hope it will do the same for you hun.
Hugs,
Rita
A happy post-op woman
Thanks for your input Rita. Sometimes when I'm feeling really down, I can take things the wrong way.
J