Hi girls,
I had my surgery with Dr. Kim this morning. It seems to have gone well, Although I had an additional procdure, simultaneously, to correct some scarring- possibly caused by some voice abuse.
I was meant to have my operation tomorrow, but Jessi asked me if I didn't mind having it a day earlier, and I agreed.
I woke up this morning with a sore thoat-like pain, was offered some ice cream a bit later and then four hours after that I had some beef soup. I am now lying down in my hotel room feeling extremely relieved as I'm absolutely terrified of needles and blood!!
I would like to ask those who had vfs surgery, what helped you with avoiding to caugh due to flem? And what foods did you have post surgery?
Thanks
Rita
I would lean forward and breath out fast to clear the accumulation. It's not as good as a cough but it's better than nothing. The other trick was to keep ice water with a straw in it. every few minutes, I would take a sip, warm it in my mouth for a few seconds and then swallow it. Done correctly you will find yourself running to the bathroom often.
You should have been given cough medicine. If so and you need it, uses it according to instructions. The first week is critical but if you make a small mistake, don't worry about it. The biggest thing you want to avoid is a coughing fit because that is hard on the surgical site.
Dairy, chocolate and spicy food are best avoided. Because of the way my mouth was beat up on the inside, I tended to go for soft food or soup when possible. Tea, soup or warm liquids may also feel good at first. You don't need to eat a bland diet but stay away from the exciting food for now.
Thanks for the advice, Dena, but I was told to avoid tea for two.mobths at all costs as it contains cafeine. I was given some antibiotics but no anti-inflamatories. I have bought some ibuprofan with me, anyway.
Rita
When I went to yeson, I drank a lot of bottled water. That helped me avoid coughing. I also opened my mouth wide and gently went "hhhhhhhh" to clear out the phlegm.
Seems to have worked as I didn't cough and I have a pretty good result now.
That's great Kate! I heard your results, and they are awsome!!!
Rita
Funny thing is the night of my surgery, they served me regular tea. You have the option of herbal and flavored teas that don't contain caffeine. Even something like hot water with a tiny amount of lemon or lime might work as well. Just go easy on the acid because that could burn.
Great
Thank you Dena,
I didn't know herbal tea didn't was caffeine-free.
Ikate, did you have lots of ice cream and some iboprofun?
Rita
Sorry to the repeated posts but why is chocolate bad for you post vfs?
There are many caffein free teas available, I drink a lot of camomille tea which is 100% caffein free.
Chocolate tends to be high in fat which stick on the way down making you need to cough more to clear it. The week before I went for surgery, I spent the entire week learning how to avoid coughing and as much as I like chocolate, I found it to be a problem.
You are right, I have just done a google search and it seems there are a few caffeine- free drinks.
Chocolate doesn't necessarily make me caugh but i think it can only be a good idea to avoid it. I love nuts too but THEY DO make me caugh so.I'm.avoiding them despite the fact Dr Kim didn't advise me to.
Rita
Quote from: Ritana on January 07, 2016, 11:39:26 AM
Great
Thank you Dena,
I didn't know herbal tea didn't was caffeine-free.
Ikate, did you have lots of ice cream and some iboprofun?
Rita
Just ice cream once. Mostly i drank water.
I did not take ibuprofen. I got packs of pills to take for a week or so. The ibuprofen seems to be a haben thing.
Also the caffeine restriction is about dehydration. Jessie saw my mom picking up some ginseng tea and said I shouldn't drink it because it will dehydrate me. She loved omija cha though which is fine for me too.
Quote from: Ritana on January 07, 2016, 11:16:01 AM
That's great Kate! I heard your results, and they are awsome!!!
Rita
Thanks
Congrats on your surgery and good luck with recovery :)
You can have exciting food like this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fl8PWc6w.jpg%3F1&hash=28e2eb88e1c33819a9d0621b21b196773b9c5ee6) (but avoid the sauce if it is spicy)
Here are some places to eat near Phil House:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQWLZJRy.jpg%3F1&hash=08213cc1915250812e729082f1684b88222d5e31)
My favourite food on the first days:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTyealdo.jpg%3F1&hash=d4a0d5c07367cd4a8d40c475e14590c37f82dc7c)
;)
In the last two days, there has been a big panic over what North Korea did the day before yesterday i.e. The hydrogen bomb test. The hotel receptionist said a war could break out at any time. This is freaking me out now! Imagine this happens and I cannot even talk. I will have to leave S. Korea without my final consultation or botox !!
Calm down now - I do not believe that this is going to happen. You can think about it if it really is going further, but I think for now, this is mostly people being scared. They will not have any sort of bomb ready in the near future and attacking S Korea would be as foolish as it was the past years as they have most of the world standing behind them. In a week you are on your way home safely :)
It's just typical bluster - don't worry about it. Aside from China not wanting North Korea to do such a thing, South Korea also has support of the USA. These sort of actions are done to manipulate the local populace and for some sort of influence with other Powers. :)
Not long to go and you'll be on your way home.
Thanks, I can't wait to be back home!
I have four days left so fingers crossed. Not sure whether it's the anaesthesia or just the fact that I am alone unable to speak in the farthest country I have been to in my whole life that is making me so anxious.
On a different note, I caughed a couple of times while asleep last night. I woke up really worried but it appeared there was no blood in the phlegm I spat out. I hope I haven't done any damage to the surgical site! I have been very strict with no speaking, been avoiding coffee, chocolate, nuts, spicy and oily food and I have been drinking tons of water to the point where I spend my day and night going back and forth to the toilet.
Its fine. a few coughs or words seem to have escaped everyone who has been there. Just try your very very best to avoid it. The suture can take a few beatings, but doing too much bad things could probably slow the healing or if done really abusive it could probably produce some other healing issues...
4 days only - wow, you are almost home then :)
Yeah I coughed like twice very gently during that 7 days and I'm fine.
Quote from: iKate on January 10, 2016, 08:32:14 PM
Yeah I coughed like twice very gently during that 7 days and I'm fine.
Ikate,
I remember you saying in one of your posts that pitch is not that important in passability, that other aspects of the voice such as timber, fluctuation and psorody as even more important than pitch. You mentioned the example of some post-vfs girls on here who could reach 250 hrz but still fail to pass on the phone.
I have been thinking about that, and I think you are actually right! I tried once (for a whole day) using my comfortable pitch on the phone (170 hrz). Bear in mind my former speech therapist told me my speech pattern is very feminine. I managed to pass just fine even though it is still below the lowest minimum female pitch (180 hrz). I, nonetheless, got a couple of questions from customers enquiring whether I was a man or a woman. That freaked the hell out of me and got me to go back straining. Needless to say, I have almost never rested my voice since then until i had my recent vfs with Yeson.
Hopefully when I heal, I will never have to strain again.
Rita
Quote from: Ritana on January 10, 2016, 11:32:58 PM
Ikate,
I remember you saying in one of your posts that pitch is not that important in passability, that other aspects of the voice such as timber, fluctuation and psorody as even more important than pitch. You mentioned the example of some post-vfs girls on here who could reach 250 hrz but still fail to pass on the phone.
I have been thinking about that, and I think you are actually right! I tried once (for a whole day) using my comfortable pitch on the phone (170 hrz). Bear in mind my former speech therapist told me my speech pattern is very feminine. I managed to pass just fine even though it is still below the lowest minimum female pitch (180 hrz). I, nonetheless, got a couple of questions from customers enquiring whether I was a man or a woman. That freaked the hell out of me and got me to go back straining. Needless to say, I have almost never rested my voice since then until i had my recent vfs with Yeson.
Hopefully when I heal, I will never have to strain again.
Rita
Pitch is one of several factors. There is a lot of emphasis on pitch when some girls need to work on prosody and resonance. That's not to say high pitch isn't good but it doesn't necessarily imply "pass."
Like passing in general it's one component of an overall picture.
In my own experience with transition I believe I have found my zen with passing. I'm not drop dead gorgeous but I'm not unpassable. My mannerisms and voice go a very long way. I don't dress like a teenager, I dress like someone my age +/- 5-10 years. I have nature's lottery on my side for a few things like not being overly big (small to medium size 4 to 6 clothing fits me well).
That said, I'm not saying you need to dress any particular way. Find your style. I'm still exploring and finding mine but I find a lot of things I'm comfortable with.
But overall, confidence and owning my presentation is what helps me. I step into the world unafraid and certain.
This is why I tackled my voice first and foremost. A voice can make or break you. It is the swing vote in people's minds when they are making a decision about figuring out your gender.
The person with 250+ Hz did have a lot of resonance and prosody issues. She did find herself well on her way to fixing them which is good, but this underscores why we shouldn't get too hung up on playing "Hertz wars."
What tipped it for me was a grocery store clerk who immediately switched to "Sir" after calling me "ma'am" after I responded to her. It was under her breath as if she felt deceived or something. I went home and cried and decided then and there that I was getting surgery. I actually had an initial session with a speech therapist and canceled it.
I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice, instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!
May I ask how many hertz exactly you have gained post op?
Quote from: Ritana on January 11, 2016, 08:11:27 AM
I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice, instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!
May I ask how many hertz exactly you have gained post op?
I am kind of unsure how many exactly because my voice varies all over the place. Generally though I get 220Hz - 230Hz average pitch and I started out at 130Hz. So I would say around 80-100Hz.
Waooo, incredible!!! That's why your voice sound so feminine hun!! Well done!
Quote from: Ritana on January 11, 2016, 10:23:31 AM
Waooo, incredible!!! That's why your voice sound so feminine hun!! Well done!
Thanks but as I said, the timbre made more of a difference. The fact that the lower male tones are gone, basically.
You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?
Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.
Quote from: Ritana on January 11, 2016, 11:33:54 AM
You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?
Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.
Timbre is a factor in prosody. However when most MTFs refer to prosody they really mean feminine speech patterns such as varying pitch and cadence.
Quote from: iKate on January 11, 2016, 07:58:03 AM
In my own experience with transition I believe I have found my zen with passing. I'm not drop dead gorgeous but I'm not unpassable. My mannerisms and voice go a very long way. I don't dress like a teenager, I dress like someone my age +/- 5-10 years. ......
That said, I'm not saying you need to dress any particular way. Find your style. I'm still exploring and finding mine but I find a lot of things I'm comfortable with.
But overall, confidence and owning my presentation is what helps me. I step into the world unafraid and certain. This is why I tackled my voice first and foremost.
I totally agree. I think what boosted my "passing" after voice surgery was only part because of actually speaking in a female voice, but the confidence that my voice is female all the time. Before, people would stare occasionally. Even if I did not say a word. That was because I was uncertain, afraid - and people picked up on that. Knowing that if I speak, my voice would rather swing peoples perception to the right side gave me confidence, which I radiate now and I don't get stares anymore.
This goes so far as to change my patterns of presentation. I started actually wearing feminine clothing and shoes and all sorts of things I did not really have the confidence to do for years.
Quote from: Ritana on January 11, 2016, 08:11:27 AM
I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice, instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!
Yes - thats really an issue. Working with a voice that has to be forced for years is not good for the voice. At a high enough starting pitch, some techniques can be learned that make the voice totall female without surgery, but if pitch is too low, those have a hard time. I started at something like 120 Hz and managed to keep 160 Hz most of the time but even that put a strain on my voice. When I was younger, I probably did 180 Hz most of the time, but after years of abuse, the pitch dropped.
Quote from: Ritana on January 11, 2016, 11:33:54 AM
You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?
Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.
Yes, the lower parts of the spectrum are gone. If you look at al the frequencies that swing in a voice, there is always low and high ones and then in the middle the main one, which is what people perceive as your pitch. And with the surgery, the lower ones are less and the higher ones are more, thus changing the timbre of the voice, even at lower pitches.
It totally is ok to be at 170 Hz - thats still a female pitch. My voice is female even if I go down to 160 or even 150 Hz, although it sounds like I am having some issue with my voice then. My speech therapist said, she herself has a pitch variety of down to 130 Hz if she uses her full spectrum when reading a theatre piece - but her average pitch is at the 190 Hz...
So I think as long as pitch is always >130 Hz and almost always >150 Hz and the other parameters are good, its perceived the right way.
Hey girls,
Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!
I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds.
Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!
Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?
Rita
Quote from: Ritana on January 16, 2016, 01:38:16 AM
Hey girls,
Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!
I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds.
Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!
Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?
Rita
Congrats on your safe trip and VFS.
North Korea? We have heard that kind of threat nearly every week during the past 60 years. The problem is now few S. Koreans pay attention to it. Their nuke threat is not real one, but political one aiming at the inner N. Korean people, the U.S., Japan and the world, not to S. Korea where they can anyway attack with traditional weapons such as artillery.
barbie~~
Quote from: Ritana on January 16, 2016, 01:38:16 AM
Hey girls,
Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!
I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds.
Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!
Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?
Rita
We've all done it. Nothing to worry about.
No worries about the few words, just try to avoid it. When I was at Phil house, the toilet was flowing over for the third time in 2 days and I was angry about it and gestured something to my friend and she asked me if that stupid toilet was overflowing again, that this is impossible and I said "Yeeeessss"! - which was really stupid and I shut up immediately. Jessie wrote me back as a reply to my concerned message though that it is not so bad as long as I dont have any sharp pain, and after the initial 7 days its even allowed to say 3 words a day, in emergencies.
Oh my God, you had a toilet flood at Phil House? It must have been vile!
It is interesting, Dr. Haben allowed me to start speaking after one week. Dr. Kim is requesting one month of voice rest. I know both surgeries are a little bit different.
Dr. Haben only said the less I speak until end of week the four the faster healing will be. But there is no more permanent damage possible. Four weeks voice rest would be impossible for me as working mom.
Quote from: Lara1969 on January 16, 2016, 05:01:16 PMFour weeks voice rest would be impossible for me as working mom.
I also am a working mom but I don't really have a problem staying silent as I work behind a computer most of the day.
Lara, I listened your one month post-op recording, and I'm qfraid if I were you, I would rest my voice for another 2 weeks in order to avoid any damage. I know it's hard but put it this way: You paid a lot of money for the surgery in order to achieve the voice you desire. You don't wanna waste all this money just another short peroiod of rest.
Thats what i thought too - I invested a lot of money plus i only have one voice, so I really wanted the best result I can get and not risk it. I know that many of the bad results one hears in Germany are not just because the surgeons are not doing the best work possible, but also because the patients are allowed to speak normally after a week, and then they also smoke soon after the surgery. This is especially a problem, I believe , if the sutures are made with the less strong dissolving threads and the suture is done with laser (which in my opinion takes longer to really fuse back together). Its not that this would not work, but I would rather be even more cauteous. After all, two patients of Dr Haben reported that they had their suture damaged in the first 8 weeks... which is about the time period Dr Kim recommends a total voice rest and later a strong limitation on voice use.
You are absolutely right! I am going to try a 2-month rest with. The second month, I will only speak in emergency situations and see how the cookie crumbles.
I cannot rest my voice for four weeks, that is just impossible due to my job and my two kids. I cannot be quiet the whole not speaking alone with my twins at home. I am currently quite sure to have a great result in the end. I am not worried as I can speak the day and still have a voice in the evening, that was when the recording was made. When I do not speak for a longer time my voice gets weaker. It gets better than making the voice excersises which I got from my speech therapist.
Maybe I had choosen Dr. Kim as surgeon when I would be in a different situation.
Who knows - maybe only Dr Kims patients have to rest their voices so long and Dr Habens technique allows for a faster voice use just as all the german surgeons usually only recommend a one week voice rest. Maybe Dr kim is just overly cauteous - who knows. My intuition would be to really rest as much as possible and then be careful and slective in what to speak and how often for a while. At least in the first 6-8 weeks which Dr Haben and Dr Kim give as the timeframe for the initial healing phase in which the suture grows together.
From what Dr. Kim explained to me, when you start talking, if your voice sounds too croaky and horse, then you definitely need to give it more rest as internal healing is still taking place and,by talking, you will be doing lots of damage, which in turn will affect final results. Just take this into account, please!
Today is my 14th day post op. I tried to say my very first wird, but no luck as there was no voice whatsoever, alas! It was just a breath of air, no sound came out.
Is this normal? I know it's very easy to start worrying, but I just wanted to know about your experiences with your first wotd, girls.
Rita
I was with Dr Haben and for the first couple of weeks, I had that as well. You have a fair amount of welling and until the swelling goes down, that will be the best you can do. Any noise you can make for the next two weeks will not make you happy so I suggest you return to full voice rest until the end of the voice rest period. Your voice will get better but you may be a supper sweller and take longer than normal to get your voice back.
Thanks Dena, you are right. I will give it another two week rest. It's not a very happy experience when you try to speak and nothing comes out.