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Hi!
Welcome to Susan's :) Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.
You have a legitimate grievance and while I cannot speak for your spouse I can only presume their silence on the matter prior to now was due to fear of rejection and shame and/or guilt. If you are not interested in being married to a woman that is your choice and your spouse will need to understand that if she wishes to fully transition to female. It is good though that you are talking about therapy as it will give you an opportunity to process your anger, grief and feelings of betrayal. As for "letting you have it" we don't allow that at Susan's so if anyone is abusive to you please report it to the moderators.
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Cheers
Grace
Quote from: BlindCourage on January 25, 2016, 04:05:24 PM
I have reiterated that I'm more than okay with him crossdressing, I'm okay if he was to take low levels of HRT to help him level out his mood swings, I'm okay with him presenting in public as a woman on occasion. I'm not okay with GRS. Will I stand in his way if he decides he has to have that in order to be happy? No, I won't. He has taken to wearing women's lingerie at night and I'm fine with that. In fact, I ordered him some items to add to his collection.
Where are we going from here? Well, the first step is therapy because one of us has several decades of baggage to sort out and I've offered to participate in that when needed. Beyond that, I have no idea what my future holds. That has me anxious and depressed, but whatever.
Okay, let me have it.
This is more than has been offered to many of us here. Besides, having SRS is an option, a personal choice - it not a mandatory obligation. So, if things are not set in stone yet... maybe there is still that chance to save Your relationship? There are many who start out at full speed only to realise a bit later that they want to slow down - maybe they have found their level of comfort, maybe low-dosage of HRTwould be sufficient... one can never know for sure until they have embarked on that journey and having someone by their side certainly helps :).
I'm a true believer in your rights. If you would of had the book open before you married that one thing, to have it open 10 years in is a totally different thing. You have a right to start from square one.
Quote from: BlindCourage on January 25, 2016, 04:05:24 PM
Now, let me caveat this with saying I've read enough posts here (including his intro post) to know most folks are not going to be 'team CIS wife.' Don't crucify me just yet. I have no problem with him wanting to crossdress. I don't have an issue with him occasionally presenting as a woman in public. I have a real issue with the lies considering how open minded I am and that many of my close friends are either gay, CD, or trans. Everyone has a right to live their life as they choose.
Hi there! I am also going through a similar situation with my SO. Fortunately he does not want to transition right now so I have not yet had to deal with as much as you and I commend you for trying to keep your cool.
As far as the "lying" goes though I would suggest trying to rethink your opinion on this. As far as I know this is a very hard thing for people to come to terms with and accept for themselves, never mind to try and explain to other people. At first when my SO told me about what was going on with him I almost wanted to scream. "I knew it! I knew something was going on! Why didn't you tell me!" It took him about 3 years to tell me. But again as time went on I realized how hard it must be to overcome the overwhelming anxiety and fear and actually come out and tell someone you love so very dearly and possibly jeopardize the relationship you have with this person. So I wouldn't go as far as saying he lied to you because I doubt that was the case but also I don't know the whole story or the person themselves. I would feel very honored and respected by the fact that he put himself out there and loves you and cares for you enough to tell you the truth [emoji4] if you'd ever like to talk I can most definitely relate, send me a message. Hope all works out. [emoji1280]
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First off I need to say that I've never been married so a grain of salt. I've dealt with this since I was 4 so I know the hell. It would be great if you can find a place together, but I'm always concerned that you do have your own rights that need to be understood and accepted as does he.
HI There,
I have just read your post and I feel you...but also for you both. I have learnt that, the other party does not mean to lie, or hide things. They do this purely out of shame and partially I think from a fear of rejection. I am also a very open woman...but my ex partner also did a good job hiding all of this from me.
Please note, we are still best friends and infact still share a house right now. I am in full support of her transition to a female or anywhere in between. Even if I stayed her partner..I would of flipped sides for her.
But back onto your situation, I suggest you try to talk to him about things. I know how hard this can be. A gender therapist could certainly help him and both of you together as well, to sort things out in your mind/s. That feeling of anxious and depressed will pass....big hugs and talk together calmly. This is a very unsettling time in both of your lifes and your life together. Take it one step at a time:) But do remember to look after you!
Thinking of you....
Marie x
Lol sounds like a good time to start a diet resolution:)
Good on you, the cup is still half fill:)
As I say.... Only you know what you will tolerate and put up with.... It sounds like you're very clear on that! :) look after yourself to during this time:)
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Significant other
Heterosexual woman
My wife's BIG Hot-Button issue is betrayal. She feels everyone in her life has betrayed her. She waited Decades and eventually I did.
Well.... Yes & No. She knew of my 'Experiments' with transitioning, On/Off HRT, even the settling on "Just a Cross-Dresser".
Her initial reaction to me dropping the T-Bomb was much the same as yours. The big differences in circumstances are I did it face to face and it was not a damn the torpedoes, I'm starting HRT. It was simply I've been going to a TG support group and..... I dunno.
Dropping of the T-Bomb often follows the Kubler-Ross model in "Of Death of Dying" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model) with anger usually topping the list. My wife, six years later, still harbors some anger. Justifiably so I feel. I did kick over the table, so to speak.
What has kept us together has been the oft times difficult and usually painful open and honest talks. A talent I Needed to rapidly develop. Also a lot of empathy since this was all (mostly) new to us both.
I like to remind others that us with GD spent the better part of a lifetime barely able to get a handle on it. Our SO's have had mere seconds in comparison. I cannot understand what it must be like to be Cis just as it is usually impossible for others to understand what it is like to be trans.
Communication, and a few gallons of tears is often needed to begin the process of understanding.
Quote from: BlindCourage on January 25, 2016, 06:29:45 PM
We have talked extensively about this. He's well aware of how I feel and at what station I will exit this train. It's now for him to decide what he wants to do. His first therapist appointment is tomorrow.
I must keep reminding myself to breathe deeply and that beyond if/when I exit, there is nothing else in my control. It's all up to him. Beyond letting him know where I stand, there's not much else for me to do. My limit is not negotiable under any circumstances.
And so I wait... At least the part where I'm repulsed by food is helping me stick to my New Year's diet resolution. Always look on the bright side, right?
Hi. Also not married but from my experience comming out to people I can honestly say I was never actively lying to those around me only to myself and those are not the same things at all.
Even after crossdressing for many years if someone asked me if I were going to transition I could 100% honestly say no at the time. But time has a funny way of changing all that.
No doubt you feel lied to but was s/he actually being deceptive or are you now interpreting it as such?
I felt horible guilt and in a funny way hiding the truth can be seen as a sign of how much the other person cares.. If I may be so bold as to twist it the other way around.
Debs.
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I would like to say something on behalf of those of us with this situation. I've dealt with this for 64 years and it was only 2,5 years ago I was able to admit to someone I had this thing going on. It was out of fer and humiliation I could never tell anyone. I've been through an awful lot of therapy in my life and it was only recently that I could talk about it to a therapist. It was my hidden secret for 60 years. I only confronted because it was a choice between living or dying. That said it is perfectly understandable to set limits to what you can live with because your life is just ss valid as his/hers.
Quote from: stephaniec on January 26, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
I would like to say something on behalf of those of us with this situation. I've dealt with this for 64 years and it was only 2,5 years ago I was able to admit to someone I had this thing going on. It was out of fer and humiliation I could never tell anyone. I've been through an awful lot of therapy in my life and it was only recently that I could talk about it to a therapist. It was my hidden secret for 60 years. I only confronted because it was a choice between living or dying. That said it is perfectly understandable to set limits to what you can live with because your life is just ss valid as his/hers.
Hi
Very well said for both sides[emoji3][emoji3]
Marie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Significant other
Heterosexual woman
I understand the feeling of being deceived and lied to and it's awful. I know it's hard for trans people to tell others, and they don't lie on purpose, but it does hurt when you're their partner who is supposed to know them so well and they're keeping a massive thing from you.
My partner did tell me near the start that he cross dressed, but only later would admit to himself and me that he is trans. But there was major deception, since I found out that he was going on trans dating sites. I was of course devastated, though he explained that he never intended to meet anyone, just went on the sites as a way of dealing with the dysphoria. I actually thought that makes sense and I do believe him that he wasn't cheating. Though said I'm not ok with those websites at all, he can go on support forums though. What hurt most was that he would admit to these strangers that he's trans and talk to them about it, but not to me. I felt like strangers knew him better than I did...
So I can kinda relate to the feelings of deception and you must be going through such a hard time, with the worry that he might transition, and not knowing if your relationship will definitely work out. It's very hard for partners too I think and I totally sympathise.
People seem to be focusing on saying that he didn't mean to lie to you, and I'm sure they want to make you feel better by saying it...but of course you feel betrayed, it's natural and you have a right to feel like that. He did lie, and it was because it was too hard for him to tell you the truth, but it still hurts you.
Similarly to you, I have several trans friends, several cross dressers, etc. and am an open minded person. I try to stand up for trans rights and be accepting. I actually went out with a trans guy before, but that's another story... I actually wonder if this is why my partner wanted to go out with me in the first place, like he thought I'd be ok with him being trans. Well I am ok with it, but I think I only am interested in guys romantically, same as you...
I wish you luck and hope that things work out well. You're dealing with it amazingly well, and doing everything you can to make it work, and being supportive. :)
Where do we go from here? That seems to always be the big question in these situations. The only thing common to anyone's journey who has come out to their spouse.
I don't know. That's what I...no WE need to find out.
But I only recently admitted this all to myself and accepted it. I have no idea what tomorrow holds let alone the rest of my life.
The only thing I am absolutely certain of is that I want her beside me through this journey...whether it be around the living room or around the world.
Anyway, this is a place for SOs to support SOs... none of us on *this* side of the fence can even remotely understand what they are going through.
I know you're going through a tough time and I'm sorry about that.
Please don't take potshots at our members, though. This is a support forum and manners count. Here are some links including the Terms of Service for the site.
Hugs, Devlyn
Things that you should read
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Please stay, this area is for you.
We expect the forums to be a place where everyone is civil to each other. Agree to disagree and all that. :)
If you feel someone has made an inappropriate post, please use the "Report to moderator" button and the post will be dealt with by the Staff.
Hugs, Devlyn
BlindCourage : Welcome! Unfortunately, it is true that there's a relatively small set of SOs who post here, and I apologize for being slow to post, as well. (In part because there are so few of us here, I'm afraid I do tend to spend more time in other support groups these days.) I had also been married just about 9 years when my wife dropped this bomb on me; the difference is that she did NOT figure it out until just before she told me. Feeling betrayed and lied to is absolutely normal and even typical when your spouse hides something of this magnitude from you. So is being angry, afraid, anxious, stressed out, and generally feeling like your life is turned upside down... it can get easier, but right now it's completely to be expected that you're on a roller coaster of emotions (including and sometimes especially rage or grief). One piece of advice I always give SOs right away is that they *do* need space to feel what they feel, and that letting it be all about the trans person is detrimental to the relationship.
In your case, unlike mine, you're very clear on what your dealbreakers are. That's good, in that it lets him make decisions for himself in full knowledge of the costs (and rewards), and it's also good for you because it means you have a strong sense of yourself and your own limits. In fact, and I much more rarely say this, I will caution you against getting too entangled in supporting his transition just yet. There's no way of knowing where his train will take him, and even less of knowing whether or not you can believe what he tells you about that (because he's already lied and concealed things once, and regardless of how valid and powerful his reasons were, that means you can't trust him on this subject). If GRS alone is the breaking point, well, many trans people do not choose to do that. If presenting full-time as a woman is also a dealbreaker, and for a straight woman who is as certain as you are I think it might be, you may want to brace yourself for the possibility that that is what he ultimately will want.
Fundamentally, he can no more ask you to change your orientation than you can expect him not to be trans. (Some straight people do turn out to be more flexible than they or their partner realized, but that's not something anyone else can ASK for.) It's one of the tragedies of transition that sometimes relationships founder on precisely that fact. Good luck, and remember to take time to focus on yourself.
Hi,
My wife said what you have said. We are still married. It has been an adjustment. I have not had the surgery. I still dance with my wife as her husband. I work and live as Jennifer 95% of the time and Jennifer is my legal name. At times, my wife misses her big strong guy. At times, even though it hurts me a little, he is there for her. That's part of love. There is room for compromise.
Yes, your spouse lied. He lied to you, he lied to everyone around him and he lied to himself. I don't see where you did anything wrong. But this is one nasty condition and in no way is it a preference. He doesn't want to be a woman. She is a person on the gender spectrum that is far more female that what her gonads would suggest. Your spouse needs help dealing with that. You need help dealing with that. But it is a spectrum and no one knows where your spouse is on it. Not yet, too soon. This is a nasty journey. Many or even most find the grass over here isn't even green. Just share and care one day at a time. But your spouse needs to own what they have done and what they are.
You are carrying a lot of pain and anger. I saw that in my wife. She was justified in her anger and the pain was real. It is that pain which caused me to up my accidental life insurance policy. I still can't believe that someone pulled out in front of a car that was traveling 140 and still accelerating. It was either kill them and me or abandon my quest for death. They lived. A part of me did not. Its a dangerous time with a lot of emotion. Take a break sometimes.
When my wife and I started this journey, we fought a lot. She had a lot to say and I listened and only occasionally countered. I shared what I was going through and what I had done and the fights would start again. Three times she left and three times she came back. With each progression, I allowed her time to adjust. I only moved forward when things got ugly and I would loose the love of life. Eventually, she understood the pain I was in and while she didn't understand the drive to be a woman, she understood that it was real.
When I look in the mirror now I see me. I am comfortable in my own skin. Our relationship is in many ways stronger. We worked out something less than my ideal and less than her ideal that actually is better than we ever thought it ever could be. I do so love dancing with her. We cuddle now and we never did. We understand each other now. We rarely fight. It is a glance and I know what she is thinking. It is a touch of tenderness that has understanding in it. Love making, although a little different and less frequent is far deeper emotionally.
It was hard to get here. It was work to get here. It took forgiveness from both of us to get here. It took four years to get here. It was worth the effort. My wife, on one knee, gave me the diamond ring I wear. I think she agrees.
I'll PM a couple of wifes of FTMs on here and see if they can help.
Hugs,
Jen
Quote from: SophieSakura on January 27, 2016, 03:48:12 AM
I understand the feeling of being deceived and lied to and it's awful. I know it's hard for trans people to tell others, and they don't lie on purpose, but it does hurt when you're their partner who is supposed to know them so well and they're keeping a massive thing from you.
My partner did tell me near the start that he cross dressed, but only later would admit to himself and me that he is trans. But there was major deception, since I found out that he was going on trans dating sites. I was of course devastated, though he explained that he never intended to meet anyone, just went on the sites as a way of dealing with the dysphoria. I actually thought that makes sense and I do believe him that he wasn't cheating. Though said I'm not ok with those websites at all, he can go on support forums though. What hurt most was that he would admit to these strangers that he's trans and talk to them about it, but not to me. I felt like strangers knew him better than I did...
So I can kinda relate to the feelings of deception and you must be going through such a hard time, with the worry that he might transition, and not knowing if your relationship will definitely work out. It's very hard for partners too I think and I totally sympathise.
People seem to be focusing on saying that he didn't mean to lie to you, and I'm sure they want to make you feel better by saying it...but of course you feel betrayed, it's natural and you have a right to feel like that. He did lie, and it was because it was too hard for him to tell you the truth, but it still hurts you.
Similarly to you, I have several trans friends, several cross dressers, etc. and am an open minded person. I try to stand up for trans rights and be accepting. I actually went out with a trans guy before, but that's another story... I actually wonder if this is why my partner wanted to go out with me in the first place, like he thought I'd be ok with him being trans. Well I am ok with it, but I think I only am interested in guys romantically, same as you...
I wish you luck and hope that things work out well. You're dealing with it amazingly well, and doing everything you can to make it work, and being supportive. :)
Extremely well said !! [emoji122]
Hi. so I'm the wife of a MTF transgender husband and what you are dealing with IS one of those moments life throws a curve ball at you.
So... you have spelled out what you will accept and what you won't. good for you, your partner also needs to do this and then you two need to decide whether you are still compatible or not. From here honest, caring discussion is important to make the marriage work. And quite frankly that is always necessary for any relationship to work.
I think you two can make it work but mileage may vary. understand that there is a way forward just be sure both of you are getting what you both need. It is important that you are both healthy and happy.
I can tell you your partner can be a woman and you can be a woman and not be lesbians. It can work. Sex and good sex is possible too but you have to be able to grow and adapt some too. believe me I didn't see my husband coming out and it took and still is taking work to adapt and change. Yet I can tell you I love her(was him) and we will spend our lives together, woman and woman.
my 2 cents, good luck to the two of you.
Sure you could do that, probably better you leave it, IMO showing the full spectrum of partners reactions is the right decision. With you and your mate/partner, you need to both keep it real with what you want. Marriage and relationships are work and play both. part of communication is also having communication that is honest and safe. people lie or hide when they are not safe and this leads to more misery for everyone. And I say this last point because conversations need to happen between you both in an environment that allows the conversations to happen.
Unfortunately your SO lied, maybe not outright, but at least by omission. In my experience, when someone handed me a letter it was because they could not open their mouth because of shame or embarrassment. In the end it does not matter why, because it happened. I received a diary and could not finish reading the damn thing.
If you are not sexually compatible then you need to find a lover, stay married then divorce later or just get it over with and divorce. Don't string it along and make it worse for the both of you.
Hell, I was in a relationship involving group sex, toys, and other perversions. My SO was clearly bisexual and it still did not work. My SO decided to become a lesbian and felt that I would never be pretty enough. We were suppose to transition together, I belive that my SO decided not to transition.
Instantly incompatibility and now that I look back I could never have sex with a ftm. I just could not. It's best that we went our separate ways.
While I am not a cis woman I understand your situation.
Hello from our house,
Hello from M , (she has told me that I can call her Mary)
I am Bob
(Read my introduction )
I'm taking dictation from Mary right now:
Just got done reading this thread to her, and she feels exactly what you are feeling, only worse!
She's not at ALL understanding.
She is a read head, but also taller and heavier than you are.
We (the 3 of us ) are in a poly relationship right now , Mary and I more of the Bdsm side, J is more vanilla as far as that goes.
Mary says that he is vanilla in every f##&ing thing in his life except for the poly and trans thing.
She has been married for almost 25 years and J knew that he was trans his college days.
J and I get along well together.
Anyway if you woul like to chat or email with Mary directly , let me know. .
Im new to the group so i m not sure how that works. ...
Bob