Curious if older guys' bodies react less quickly to testosterone.
What do you think?
If the female system is already shut down that is one less battle to deal with. I would say second puberty is about the same time frame no matter your age based on the experiences I've read.
Just wondered if extra years or decades of AFAB hormones would accumulate somehow, or if older bodies are less quick to change.
The only endocrinologist I ever asked said she didn't know the answer, that it was possible but she didn't offhand know of any data.
This is my question too ! For FTMs older than 25 years old , is it possible for example to grow an Adam's apple when they go on T ?
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I've wondered this myself and the go to answer is annoyingly it always comes to genetics and maybe luck. I've only had roughly 8 years of estrogen damage before starting T at 21. It'll be interesting to know how masculine I'll look in a year or 10 years. Of course if you started T before 21 you'll be a few inches taller, but I don't see why you won't look exactly as masculine if you had started T at the same age as I had.
I suppose you'll have a slight rise in T and a slight decrease in estrogen if you're genetically a woman at 40+ but I doubt if it would give you any advantage from the results of then taking T.
I think it's very possible that if you are younger your body will react much better to T. I started my transition at 29 and I've been on T for two years. I have seen some of the younger guys who start at an earlier age get so much more masculine looking than me in such a short amount of time. Their bodies are much more lean and defined. I have been working out and eating quite healthy for a while now and my body still looks feminine to me even after my top surgery. I probably just need to continue working out and work a bit harder at it. I'm just the type that gets extremely discouraged so I do my best to avoid looking at other trans guys now lol. So in general, yes, I feel if you are older your body will respond much slower to HRT.
Funny, before I started T I did a search on transitioning late in life, and was happy to find a thread on that subject.
Then I got much less happy as I read along and some of the comments said things like "I have a friend who started T really late, like in his 20s".
LOL! I'm closer to 50 than 40, so not keen on hearing young pups saying that 20s is "late in life".
For fat redistribution in particular I won't be surprised if older people are less responsive than younger ones.
Quote from: EddieX on February 14, 2016, 08:40:08 AM
This is my question too ! For FTMs older than 25 years old , is it possible for example to grow an Adam's apple when they go on T ?
Yes, pretty sure that as the vocal cords lengthen the Adam's apple will form regardless of age. So if your voice is changing, and mine is, quite dramatically, and I'm way older than 25, an Adam's apple will form.
I started T at 30. I do have an Adam's apple (though it's not super apparent with my head in normal position).
Unfortunately, it is definitely individual. I was by no means very old when I started T but I was definitely past any first puberty changes.
I passed probably 75% of the time pre-t. I never had a very delicate or feminine body shape. My voice was usually what gave me away. At about 6 months on T, my slowly lowering voice took a huge drop and I have not been misgendered by someone who didn't know me before since (either on the phone or in person). My body changes happened fast and I've had a lot of body fat redistribution. I have met people since then (especially in the last 6 months) who said they would never have guessed I hadn't been born male bodied.
With that being said, that's not everyone's experience. Things like substantial height changes and things of that nature wouldn't change once your bones are fused in your late teens or very early twenties. But depending on your genetics, just about everything else is up for grabs. It's one of those things that's really really difficult to say for certain.
Quote from: RaptorChops on February 14, 2016, 10:48:52 AM
I think it's very possible that if you are younger your body will react much better to T. I started my transition at 29 and I've been on T for two years. I have seen some of the younger guys who start at an earlier age get so much more masculine looking than me in such a short amount of time. Their bodies are much more lean and defined. I have been working out and eating quite healthy for a while now and my body still looks feminine to me even after my top surgery. I probably just need to continue working out and work a bit harder at it. I'm just the type that gets extremely discouraged so I do my best to avoid looking at other trans guys now lol. So in general, yes, I feel if you are older your body will respond much slower to HRT.
I actually have a theory on this. It seems to me that younger men changing quicker may actually be a matter of our perspective. While it may SEEM that someone still in their teens and very early twenties acquires changes faster, I think what really happens is that they "catch up" to their age groups faster and are able to pass for their age more quickly. If you are at an age where having a "baby beard" or a round, childlike face or a very lean "young man" body is highly unlikely, then you will probably have to be on T longer before you pass completely, making it seem that your changes are happening more slowly when, in reality, you just require more changes to pass as well.
As for things like young people being leaner, that's just a perk of youth. Metabolism in both makes and females slows down with age.
I have seen some young people who change rapidly as well some who it takes a long time, and I have seen the same for older people. There are a few older people on T who don't pass quite as well as the younger ones, but again I think it's because effeminate features are more common on younger men. From what I understand your results on T are 99% genetic predestination and maybe 1% when you got on T. So have hope!
Quote from: FtMitch on February 20, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
I actually have a theory on this. It seems to me that younger men changing quicker may actually be a matter of our perspective. While it may SEEM that someone still in their teens and very early twenties acquires changes faster, I think what really happens is that they "catch up" to their age groups faster and are able to pass for their age more quickly. If you are at an age where having a "baby beard" or a round, childlike face or a very lean "young man" body is highly unlikely, then you will probably have to be on T longer before you pass completely, making it seem that your changes are happening more slowly when, in reality, you just require more changes to pass as well.
As for things like young people being leaner, that's just a perk of youth. Metabolism in both makes and females slows down with age.
I have seen some young people who change rapidly as well some who it takes a long time, and I have seen the same for older people. There are a few older people on T who don't pass quite as well as the younger ones, but again I think it's because effeminate features are more common on younger men. From what I understand your results on T are 99% genetic predestination and maybe 1% when you got on T. So have hope!
I agree with this observation. I don't think it's a matter of T being less effective for older folks, it just influences passability because you're grouped by age with men who have 40, 50+ years of T in their system. Testosterone is the harsher hormone, but it still takes time for its effects to help you move from the 12 year old phase to the young man phase which is much more difficult when you are not actually a young man.
I think on a comparative scale changes-wise, age doesn't matter. On a 5 or 10 year timeline, we'll all probably have the same amount of masculinization.
What Mitch and Max said, pretty much.
My doc told me up front that she couldn't really give me a timeline, because there's almost no data on how this works for older guys. I started T at age 61, and I'm just coming up on two years.
I do think most changes are happening a bit more slowly, probably just because as we age, our whole physiology slows down. My voice changed "right on time," and I've been very happy with that. Hairiness is slow, but it's happening -- every week there's a bit more.
Muscle development is one area that I think is very much affected by age, which makes sense because everyone loses muscle as they get older, so gaining muscle is already an uphill battle for any older guy, whether cis or trans. But it does seem possible with consistent workouts, and there's no question that I'm much stronger than I've ever been.
Max's point about facial hair is a good one. Adolescent scruff is NOT a good look for an older gentleman. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ftongue.gif&hash=635dd8fbd198d13e75e7b21e12e5f405e686d654) My beard is coming in, but I have a long way to go before I'll be able to grow a decent one; on the other hand, this is something that can take several years for cis guys, so as long as I see progress from month to month, I can live with that.
QuoteI think what really happens is that they "catch up" to their age groups faster and are able to pass for their age more quickly. If you are at an age where having a "baby beard" or a round, childlike face or a very lean "young man" body is highly unlikely, then you will probably have to be on T longer before you pass completely, making it seem that your changes are happening more slowly when, in reality, you just require more changes to pass as well.
That makes sense. Strangers guessing my age have estimated ~20 years younger than I really am, because most cis guys my age are much hairier, balder, and rougher-skinned than I am.
I do think older bodies might be more sluggish in responding to hormones too, though.
I started T five years ago, at age 40, which could be considered old... I have had all of the changes one would expect, and within reasonable time, however, I still do not look like any other 45 year old man. Guys who start younger get the benefits of T, but they are also still growing and maturing so the changes seem more distinctly age appropriate, even though some of the change that is attributed to T could be just due to maturity. One will never know. Would I appear the same as I do now if I had started T at age 20? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter now.
I too started T later, at 38. And I freely admit to envy when I look at all the guys starting medical transition in their early 20s. They seem to lean down and bulk up effortlessly, while I'm literally eating 1200-1300 calories a day (yup, I count, obsessively) and just getting...puffy. That's the only thing T has done quickly for me--make me fat.
Quote from: Clever on March 15, 2016, 10:17:14 AM
I too started T later, at 38. And I freely admit to envy when I look at all the guys starting medical transition in their early 20s. They seem to lean down and bulk up effortlessly, while I'm literally eating 1200-1300 calories a day (yup, I count, obsessively) and just getting...puffy. That's the only thing T has done quickly for me--make me fat.
That sounds like a body type issue to me as I know plenty of guys in their early twenties who have this same problem (they gained a lot of fat on T) but I, who started T at 30, have to eat over 2700 calories a day to gain a TINY amount of weight. In fact I probably need to up it again because I am plateauing again after gaining about three pounds in a couple months. Some people are just thinner and have a harder time gaining weight--age does slow down the metabolism but I have seen TONS of young trans men who have gotten really puffy on T eating way less than I do while I am practically downing whole milk 24/7 so I can gain muscle. Of course I also ride horses 5 times a week, at least two horses each day, and go to the gym twice a week. In truth there is no such thing as "effortlessly bulking up" and many of those YouTube guys actually spend a ton of time following the very specific routines and diets required to bulk. It just seems effortless because you don't see all the exercise, high protein foods, and careful macro monitoring. Overall it is really hard to a lot any reactions to T to just one thing like age when really it has to do with genetics, body type, metabolism, lifestyle, and age--variables right and left!
Quote from: Clever on March 15, 2016, 10:17:14 AM
I too started T later, at 38. And I freely admit to envy when I look at all the guys starting medical transition in their early 20s. They seem to lean down and bulk up effortlessly, while I'm literally eating 1200-1300 calories a day (yup, I count, obsessively) and just getting...puffy. That's the only thing T has done quickly for me--make me fat.
Try not to get bent out of shape about the 'puffy' thing :) It happened to me as well, and I welcomed it because it gave me a more masculine appearance...but it goes away in time. I kept eating according to hunger and fullness, and all the puffiness disappeared around 2 years on T. I am now my normal skinny guy self. It is important to satisfy your body's hunger with enough wholesome food so you CAN lean down and bulk up.
Quote from: EddieX on February 14, 2016, 08:40:08 AM
This is my question too ! For FTMs older than 25 years old , is it possible for example to grow an Adam's apple when they go on T ?
I was 28 when I started for the first time and I grew a noticeable one. I have some puffiness from just restarting T, so it's not as sharp as usual, but it still shows up pretty clearly in photos:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQIvG0BV.jpg&hash=79422668f0b495c36018a3a6ec5222a8fa2cb12a)