I have been told a few times now that me coming out as transgender is wrong and that I'm going to be sent to hell and I'm just confused and that the devil is making me transgender so I should just go back into the closet and never come back out. It hurts to hear others tell me that I'm just having a crisis of faith, or I'm confused, or you are just on the wrong path and god is testing you when it's clear the person saying these things aren't listing to me. I'm not a religious person and I never will be. I was raised without religion of any kind and now not only am I being pressured into having it but also into denying what I am. I really hate being told I don't know any better and I don't think they realize the more they tell me I'm wrong the angrier I get. They say "we are doing this because we love you and want you to be happy." and my response is. "No your not." and them I stop talking to them ever again. I'm losing a lot of people I thought were my friends this way....the Ironic thing is my husband and my sister are the only one's who is happy for me and support me in this and it makes me think....are those the only people who actually care?
I didn't make the wrong choice to come out. I'm not confused but I am afraid. I'm frightened by other people and what they might do to me because I'm different. There have been horrible atrocities done to those who are different...
Big hug! The devil doesn't make you transgender......the Devyl does! >:-) You can't force people to accept you, but you can ignore them. You're not doing this for anyone but yourself, don't let people get under your skin. It's not their issue to deal with.
Hugs, Devlyn
I have no time for people who try to run me down and tell me that I had been born a man (almost typed in woman!) and God doesn't make mistakes. They are not what I would call true Christians. In fact, I had this very discussion with someone on Saturday. They can say what they like, but I became this way for a reason and no matter if I am a man or a woman, in my Christian religion I was told, and believe, that my God made me this way and I am loved by Him and by Jesus. Jesus didn't pick and choose whom He loved, He even loved the tax collectors! That's all that matters to me.
You just be yourself and don't worry about those who think they are better than you. Doesn't it say in the Bible, he who is without sin may cast the first stone? Those people are not perfect and they don't know anything more about the future or what plans are in store for you than the next person.
Love,
Clare
I feel so so so sorry and sad for you and it is so horrible that you have to go through that. What people are saying about you seriously annoys me because they are not preaching, or telling you any religion. The word of God is kindness, respect, and faith and honestly kindness is not denying your friendship over being transgender! Good luck to you, and I am truly sorry for all that you have to go through.
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Quote from: Sora on February 16, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
I have been told a few times now that me coming out as transgender is wrong and that I'm going to be sent to hell and I'm just confused and that the devil is making me transgender so I should just go back into the closet and never come back out.
This is RUDE. Telling someone they disapprove of any aspect of their life without their opinion being sought is anti-social and inconsiderate (to say the least).
Feel free to tell them "you're being rude, I didn't ask your opinion."
Hugs, Sora. You don't deserve this. I hope you can hold your head high and realize you're a nicer person than they'll ever be.
Just think of them as having the mentality of a small child, which they do. Take their opinion as you would take one from a six year old and then dismiss them as such.
Sapere Aude
Hello and welcome :)
Try to relax.
This might help you :
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,204280.msg1816209.html#msg1816209
There are studies showing being transgdender has biological connections.
Its literally a womens brain in a mans body.
Understanding of people is like with seizures.
A time ago people thought seizures are possessions.
But its a biological thing, and there are remedies.
The same is true for transgender people.
Birth conditions happen and its nobodys fault.
And religion has nothing to do with it.
People are called to help each other in love.
The recognized remedy is to transition, as the transgender person feels is necessary.
There is a spectrum of severity and thus not only one way to transition.
You might look for other transgender people, there might be support groups or events at lgbt centers.
There might be also meetups.
And there is a chat on susans.
hugs
Hi
I had the same bigots throwing religion in front of me at multiple times in my life. I was told that the devil made me trans and I tried to make a deal with the devil at one stage that I can just wake up as a girl the next morning to rid me of the pain.
As a teen they tried to drive deamons out of me because you they made me want to be a girl to go against Gods work. His plan and I am still trans too this day and busy transitioning.
It is a biological thing hun. I had a lady that I know a couple of months back telling me I must lay it at Gods feet and that will cure me and accept my body as it is.
We are just trans there is no demons and funy stuff. Some people just can't wrap their head around it or understand it their scope of understanding does not allow it. They are the sheep people and everything that seems unusual to them is the from the devil.
They are just trying to scare you I have been there. Don't let people like that get to you just because they are uncomfortable with themselves.
I think that the only "sin" (if we want to use such term) is to miss to blossom in what we are\as we are.
I find something very Divine in my transgender feelings.
A flower blossoms because it's in its own intrinsical nature, not because it is following some moral invented by someone else, it just does it without asking any permission.
We, as human beings, have the chance to discover our own true nature, and the right to do wathever is good for us to live according to what we see as True. And to fulfill ourselves according with this truthfulness we have consciously found.
This, to me, is Divine.
:)
Aly
I am currently dealing with this as we speak. I have been active in church all my life. My parents are pastors. I was drilled into my head growing up that trans person were sick and perverted.
Tonight, I go before my church board (the same one I was a part of until I was asked to step down from) and tell them my story. My pastor and asst pastor don't agree with me, but "want to walk along side me" and even say that they "pray I change my mind".
At the end of my story, my wife and I are telling them that we are leaving. End of story.
I know I am and I know what I believe. Hopefully my words will open their hearts and minds for someone like me in the future.
everyone you have been so great! you made me feel so much better and to show my gratitude here is a kitten getting booped on the nose. I fine cute animals to make me feel better as well.
(https://45.media.tumblr.com/2e1ac74044eda8fa2a49925b9677c06b/tumblr_o2npg9vODp1tjdvfuo1_400.gif)
I usually don't interfere with religious topics nor am i Christian. When people preach hate it shows how ignorant they are. Jesus preached love and tolerance not hate.
What I have found for myself is to avoid the people that cause guilt and pain and gravitate to those that are accepting and wonderful. I do not invest a lot of emotional energy or space in my head for those that are not supportive. I choose who I associate with not the other way around. You are in control with and whom you associate with. I do not try to convince others to think another way nor do I accept being told what to think. I will not try to make everybody agree with my path. This has taken me a long time to learn.
There are exceptions
My boss tried to talk me out of HRT and expressing. He actually stalled my coming out about 9 months. We had to have a business plan with HR and develop an elaborate coming out process. I can not choose to not relate, communicate and be pleasant and sociable with my boss. He is my boss and not my friend and he can make my life difficult so politics sometime can make or break a job.
You are very lucky to have support from your husband and sister. Transition is very stressful and having support at home makes a huge difference.
You are
My brother is the only one that told me flat out I'm wrong and I will change my mind.....
How does one know what's right or wrong?
Sora, I know it can be frustrating as you lose people around you. Friends who truly care about you will stay by your side. I'm glad you have some that have stuck by your side. Being trans isn't a sin so you won't go to hell. Hugs
Mariah
Hugs girl. There are all kinds of "Christians" who will pass judgment on you as they do on me. Apparently they have not learned many of the lessons that Christ provided for his followers. These "Christians" forget that it is not their place to judge. Many of them love to mix and match biblical passages to serve their judgmental needs. They will selectively cite Old Testament passages but omit and ignore similar passages that condemn things that they do on a regular basis. In the end, I have no time for "Christians" who are not followers of Christ. There is only one who gets to judge me. Until that time I try to be the best person I can be and know, that as a human, I am fallen but I continue to pray for the forgiveness that has been promised by God who gave his son so that we can have everlasting life if we believe in him.
Hi Sora,
So I've been told I'd go to hell by my own parents who are basically born-again Christians who have plenty of born-again Christian family and friends. Since I've been chastised and turned away by my own parents, I created my own network of close friends whom I'm proud to call my family. My ex wife and her family are also similar to my parents. They've turned their backs on me as well. If it weren't for my friends, I'd probably end up feeling really depressed, so I'm glad I have my own support network. I've tried to convince my parents and ex-in-laws that there is a biological basis to all of this, but they don't want to listen. I've even shown them medical proof in the form of my X-rays which doctors have stated clearly show me having a female-shaped pelvis, but this didn't change my parents or ex-in-laws minds, either. It doesn't matter. People want to believe what they want to believe and it's very difficult to change certain people who are set in their ways.
For people who've never met me before and I reveal to them my past, most are astounded and want to learn more. They tell me that what I've done makes sense because I look like I was born female. While that certainly feels good and validates me in a sense, it would be nice to have my parents or ex-in-laws be a part of that group.
Some people try to console me by saying, "Oh, don't worry, they're your parents. They'll come around eventually," but they don't understand that my parents are the stubborn Chinese types that never forgive, never forget, and will hate someone until the day they die.
Religion......
It's not spirituality. Some may find it as a path to spiritual things, but in itself, a set of cultural traditions and beliefs handed down through generations, it's a place where old, ignorant, bigoted attitudes can persist from previous generations.
And when it comes to spirit, and where it is and going in this universe, who is anyone to say anything about your spirit? Judgement is the PINNACLE of ignorance, those who judge, fear.
There have been a great many very wise prophets throughout history, pretty much all of them say it is not our place to judge others. And that the only gateway to hell is the judgement of ourselves. Nobody but me can place me in hell.... or heaven.
We are sovereign, independent spirits, our only master is the universe itself and it's mysterious "rules" that arrogant science claims to understand. For even science itself can be a religion, and I have heard ignorance from atheists as well. Science has a bad habit of purely identifying with matter only, which only is a small portion of the universe, it is blind to spirit.
You, me, everyone. We are ancient spirits who have taken many forms, and will take many more. It is in the variety of vessels we inhabit, the vehicles we pilot........
(arrrrgh!!!!... I get distracted and complete LOSE my train of thought, dang, post dosent make sense now frustrated) the cat interruped me and it wa slike a screech across a record, hate it when that happens..... dang!
I'm an atheist, with a lot of fundie Christian relatives. I've had good and bad experiences with them when it comes to being transgender. My conservative grandparents have been wonderful about it - my preacher brother has stopped talking to me because I'm a servant of the devil. I've also got a lot of trash talk from people who would otherwise describe themselves as liberal, progressive, non-religious, etc. All I can say is, people come in all kind of flavours. And whatever their problems are with me, it ain't my problem at the end of the day.
You should ask them which bit of the Bible specifically says being transgender is wrong.
I've heard Galatians 3: 28 around in support of gender non confirming a lot - "neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." I'm not religious though so it could be a misquote. :/
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on February 17, 2016, 09:16:44 AM
You should ask them which bit of the Bible specifically says being transgender is wrong.
Been there, done that. Fact of the matter is, I just don't care anymore what they believe. Not when it is based on what is - in *my* opinion - a work of fiction. It's like arguing about what size Cinderella's glass slippers were, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to waste my time doing it. Besides, there's always a comeback. My brother's favourite is "even the devil can quote scripture". I don't really worry about it anymore. The only thing that really gets on my nerves is the ever-popular passive aggressive "hate the sin, love the sinner" line.
They're going to believe whatever they like, and if they're happy doing it - fine by me, so long as they aren't hanging on my doorbell to tell me about it, or trying to pass laws against me. That's the only time when I take a genuine interest in it these days. And even then, it only extends to pointing out that I'm not living in a theocracy, and neither are they.
Arguing with them is futile. They believe God is inside them guiding them in all truth. So they feel justified in any whacky idea they dream up out of thin air.
Write them off.
Sapere Aude
Quote from: Peep on February 17, 2016, 09:45:23 AM
I've heard Galatians 3: 28 around in support of gender non confirming a lot - "neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." I'm not religious though so it could be a misquote. :/
You are not misquoting.
Quote from: Jessie Ann on February 16, 2016, 08:43:38 PM
Hugs girl. There are all kinds of "Christians" who will pass judgment on you as they do on me. Apparently they have not learned many of the lessons that Christ provided for his followers. These "Christians" forget that it is not their place to judge. Many of them love to mix and match biblical passages to serve their judgmental needs. They will selectively cite Old Testament passages but omit and ignore similar passages that condemn things that they do on a regular basis. In the end, I have no time for "Christians" who are not followers of Christ. There is only one who gets to judge me. Until that time I try to be the best person I can be and know, that as a human, I am fallen but I continue to pray for the forgiveness that has been promised by God who gave his son so that we can have everlasting life if we believe in him.
I don't think I could have put this any better. I have challenged my pastor on a continual basis, yet he refuses to understand. He says that he wants to be my friend yet tells me that he prays 'that I change my mind'. That is not a friend.
What they fail to understand is that the choice isn't to be trans or not trans. The choice is to treat the condition or not treat the condition.
Until everyone is talking about the same choice there will remain a failure to communicate.
Sapere Aude
Quote from: Deborah on February 17, 2016, 01:53:47 PM
What they fail to understand is that the choice isn't to be trans or not trans. The choice is to treat the condition or not treat the condition.
Until everyone is talking about the same choice there will remain a failure to communicate.
Sapere Aude
EXACTLY!
The condition never goes away.
Our society is not well, few are paying any attention to anything. So much deliberate ignorance.
So many pushing THEIR idea of how it "should" be, most of us decide to just shut it all out and decide that only we, ourselves know what is going on in our reality. All those other folks out there in the world, insane.
It's scary to open up and trust people, to listen to them, and to allow yourself to be listened to. We humans are all hiding in our little bubbles terrified of each other. Many lash out at those things that they fear. Or run from them.
Try to ignore them.
I dont normally get involved regarding religious matters because i have No right to comment as im not religious.. But......
After reading this it really touched a nerve and im so sorry that you have had to go through all this.. When will people learn that Being religious is a choice. That is something you decide to be, and that is how you chose to live... But being transgendered is who you are, you have to be who you are and you Have to live your life that way..
I do respect all religions and i am happy that people can find peace within it.. I truly am but when they use religion to dictate someones way of living that is wrong.. And it is that im against...
Im sorry for the rant, but like i said it touched a nerve and im so sorry you have to go through this.. Take care lea xx
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It is very easy for a person that is not walking in someone else's shoes to sit back and form harsh opinions and beliefs about the other person's journey. These opinions and beliefs are often based on societal norms or on what was taught when they were growing up. They can also be based on misinterpreted/misunderstood scripture as is happening in your situation.
A cisgender person cannot understand what our life is like and they certainly would not "choose" this life. It is beyond me how anyone can think this life is a life that anyone would "choose" given the pain, suffering, and losses that are involved.
A wonderful gift that we were given is the ability to learn from life and to learn from other people; a reasonable person changes their views on things as they learn and admits when they were wrong about something. We were also given the gift of empathy to be able to relate to other people's situations and to offer kindness. Some people however refuse to use these gifts; they refuse to hear and to see what is plainly in front of them. In the case of the scripture quoting people that are harassing you I guess it has not occurred to them that they will be judged some day for their hard hearts and their refusal to be empathetic and show kindness and understanding to another person's struggle.
As the English clergyman Matthew Henry once said:
"None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see"
My suggestion is to remove these people from your life - a person that has chosen to be blind and deaf is not going to be receptive to any explanation that you place before them.
When I started down this road my wife found my counselor as she had more time to search for and set up appointments. We ended up at a Christian counseling service. I was sceptical at first as I have had my dealings with organised religion. That is one of the things that kept me from admitting to myself I was trans for so long and why I hid it and lived a lie for 38 years. My counselor put it best, there is spearituality which is in the Bible, and there is religion which is man's interpretation of the Bible. One of the things I had to work through is how I could walk this road and not be damed to hell. Not that they are sure things but here are some of my thoughts. It says in the Bible that we are born without sin, so if that is true and we from our earliest age are trans how is that a sin? Even if it is a sin, keep in mind that God dosent know sin in degree, it is no different to lie than to be trans, and in truth we are lying when we live as we are not. Also we can never achieve being without sin in this broken world and anyone that sits in judgement is being a hypocrite.
Quote from: leacobb on February 19, 2016, 05:55:54 AM
I dont normally get involved regarding religious matters because i have No right to comment as im not religious.. But......
After reading this it really touched a nerve and im so sorry that you have had to go through all this.. When will people learn that Being religious is a choice. That is something you decide to be, and that is how you chose to live... But being transgendered is who you are, you have to be who you are and you Have to live your life that way..
I do respect all religions and i am happy that people can find peace within it.. I truly am but when they use religion to dictate someones way of living that is wrong.. And it is that im against...
Im sorry for the rant, but like i said it touched a nerve and im so sorry you have to go through this.. Take care lea xx
Leacobb, I agree with your entire post.
I am an athiest and have my own opinions of religion, yet I would never consider imparting those opinions on those who choose to believe in the supernatural because I respect others right to believe in and live their lives in accordance with whatever version of whatever religion they like. What I do have a problem with however, is when religious people judge, criticise or condemn myself or others for not fitting in with their own personal beliefs.
To me at least, religion is a set of encoded beliefs that a group of people subscribe to, they could be any old thing some charismatic person wrote down.
Spirituality on the other hand is that indescribable something we all have deep inside and our relationship with it.
So many people confuse the two.
"My interpretation of this large book is better than yours!" they cry.
"Your choices do not conform with the ideals I have formed based upon hearing a very charismatic person describe a book he read once." ... "They said that the book said that the book was correct."
I came across an advertising brochure printed by McDonald's talking about how healthy McDonald's food is. :laugh:
Religion is one way that people deal with the uncertainty of life and the certainty of change. In a changing society they all gather in their groups and try to resist the change, or at least agree on what change is good vs bad. Of course this fails to take in the very heart of what the Christian movement started as not a police force for the culture, but a way for people to transcend the culture, love one another, help one another and focus on God
I'm a Liberal Christian. When anyone tells me that this is wrong, or that is wrong i always look at them and ask..Why don't you focus on what is right?
They used to tell me it was a phase. I couldn't help but smile at them. I knew it was pointless to argue because actions speak louder than words. Almost 2 years HRT, legal name and gender change...now, I am an abomination. But I prefer they call me the Abominable Transquatch.
To my benefit, I don't believe in a higher power so all their talk of hell is never going anywhere.
The way I see it as long as they don't resort to violence, I just let them waste their breath.
When I came out at work I had a transition team of over 20 of which many were group supervisors. One group supervisor is extremely religious and two very religious. I was very apprehensive as I told them in private one by one. They were very supportive. I was so surprised.
When we all meet the week before I came out at work. The one supervisor who was religious said he has someone that is trans in his family and he said family is family and that is that. I had one manager say his best friend was trans (she died) and they were (I guess they are for life) in a MC. I knew her too but was no where as close as the manager. He shared a story and got emotional during the story.
You never know, religious, super religious and motorcycle club members are individuals and you can find support where it is least expected. Give people a chance before you withdraw from them.
My best friend's very religious mother convinced my mom that this was just "some idea they [we] cooked up". Shortly after coming out to my parents, said friend's mother dropped by a shipment of bumper stickers that read "Don't believe everything you think" and continues to be a pain in the rear. A very religious friend of mine has told me repeatedly that she doesn't believe God makes mistakes and that I'm just confused, among other things. Growing up, I was a strong advocate for free-thinking, so I don't let this kind of stuff get to me too much.
The Devil never said you were going to Hell. The Devil gave them that idea.
I'm not a Christian, not even close, but I know that there's no time when being transgender is mentioned in the Bible. Keep in mind, these are some things that you're also going to Hell for according to Christianity:
* Wearing clothes made of two materials
* Eating pork or shellfish
* divorcing
* adultery is punishable by death
And many more. Also, keep in mind, basically everyone is going to Hell, considering that being anything but Christian is also on the no-no list. So, the non-Christian majority is going to Hell with us as well. Which leaves us with the orthodox christians who actually follow these rules... which means, we only have a tiny, tiny few people who aren't actually going to Hell if you believe in it.
And even then... would you want to go to Heaven with this people? I doubt so. I'd much rather go to a thousand Hells and be tortured than be at "peace" surrounded by crazed, hypocritical people like Westboro baptists and such who have such ridiculous and outdated beliefs (though, to be fair, none of them would qualify for heaven either).
I guess I'm biased because my religion doesn't have a "Hell", so I didn't know it was a thing until I started school and the Christians tried to tell me I was going to Hell. I shrugged it off, and still do now.
Don't let them get to you.
Who'd wanna go to heaven if it was filled with judgmental bigots.
If all the accepting kind people I know are going to hell, then hell, I'm going too.
I've heard this so many times, all from my own family. They never judged people using their religion, until I came out to them. Then all of a sudden even the non-religious ones were throwing scriptures in my face. I stopped talking to them altogether as a result, but I don't know what your situation is. I had the support of a wife and kids, so I wasn't cutting off all my support. Still it's not good to live with that kind of negativity. I do still get depressed over it from time to time, but I wrote journal entries at the time of these conversations and I return to them when I feel like it's a good idea to call them again. They attacked me when I needed them most and I still feel the need to see them? Crazy.
Quote from: schwarzwalderkirschtort on March 02, 2016, 05:55:14 PM
The Devil never said you were going to Hell. The Devil gave them that idea.
I'm not a Christian, not even close, but I know that there's no time when being transgender is mentioned in the Bible. Keep in mind, these are some things that you're also going to Hell for according to Christianity:
* Wearing clothes made of two materials
* Eating pork or shellfish
* divorcing
* adultery is punishable by death
And many more. Also, keep in mind, basically everyone is going to Hell, considering that being anything but Christian is also on the no-no list. So, the non-Christian majority is going to Hell with us as well. Which leaves us with the orthodox christians who actually follow these rules... which means, we only have a tiny, tiny few people who aren't actually going to Hell if you believe in it.
And even then... would you want to go to Heaven with this people? I doubt so. I'd much rather go to a thousand Hells and be tortured than be at "peace" surrounded by crazed, hypocritical people like Westboro baptists and such who have such ridiculous and outdated beliefs (though, to be fair, none of them would qualify for heaven either).
I guess I'm biased because my religion doesn't have a "Hell", so I didn't know it was a thing until I started school and the Christians tried to tell me I was going to Hell. I shrugged it off, and still do now.
Don't let them get to you.
Graven images! It's like the second commandment: "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." Whoops, there goes the Renaissance
You know you better than anyone.