What's it like as a trans girl in an Arab country? Here 1 week. A life experience no one can deny me. Life is short = seize the day. I'm getting to know Arab English + French teachers quite well. THESE Arabs don't hate Europeans nor Americans. They aren't oil shieks nor migrants -- they're ordinary working people -- teachers like me. I'm 2,500 air miles/4000 km away from Syria war zone + 4000 miles/6000 km away by ground = these people I now know in person detest + hate Daesh (ISIS). I must pass well as cis biological female to avoid problems though. So far so good! I must respect local culture and cover all skin from my neck to my ankles when in public, except my hands. This works great. Bare legs bring unwanted stares + comments + danger. My hair and face are exposed + I wear full make-up in public. My voice passes convincingly.
You're braver than me, I won't even transit the airports.
I'm not from an Arab country, but my former homeland has, almost entirely, a highly conservative Muslim society. I was strictly closeted whilst still there and could not even remotely dream of transitioning, much less even being able to honestly speak to anybody about my dysphoria. Transgender people are relegated to the fringes of society and get virtually zero respect. In fact, it's pretty much downright hostility most of the time. I believe the legal situation has improved recently, however the complete social ostracization is enough to relegate one to a life of poverty and misery.
I remember an incident ages ago when I was 14 or 15 years old, travelling through the city in a car with two of my uncles. These were, relatively speaking, highly educated and progressive people. While stopped at a set of lights, there was a transwoman begging for money. The slurs my uncles used, their whole demeanour and attitude, their needlessly vicious reaction, was all a massive shock and disappointment for me. I knew then that I had to keep a tight wrap on everything and basically never mention it to anyone ever. Super glad I'm not there anymore.
Some light reading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)) if you're interested.
BTW, you're incredibly brave to present as a woman in an Arab country. Please be super careful though.
I don't know much about this topic, but it's an interesting story. You're very brave to venture to a foreign country like that- seems easier to be a female in one of those robes because everything would be covered. So may I ask where are you from and why are you traveling there?
She wasn't soliciting, just literally begging for money.
I unfortunately know how things are in the Arab world it's despicable to put it nicely.
I hope your very careful over there!!!
BY FOR NOW
What bothers me about the Islamic countries I've been to is that religion is enforced with the stick but that's about all. I figured people in these countries would be pious and morally responsible on the whole because religion is heavily mixed with culture and daily life. But they only have to obey the book and not harrass the Muslimahs. Then moral responsibility is free to fly out the window.
It's quite the eye opener to go to one of these places where women cover up and men are supposed to avert their gaze from them, and realize that this only applies to their own. A non-Muslim woman is fair game for harassment in Morocco, particularly if she isn't accompanied by a man and not wearing something that covers most of her up. Now we knew this full well before we went and every female in our group made sure not to wear anything short and revealing, at any point anywhere near a town or village. Even so 8 and 9 year old kids were acting like little pervs around our camp, saying something about the ideas they're brought up with, and the view from their media and digestion of our media is that Western women are whores and totally fair game. I couldn't go around some Roman ruins at one point without some 20 ish year old trying to grab my hand and asking if I was married. Pretty much had to be 'guarded' whenever I went into a town by 2 or more male colleagues (I had about 30 so I didn't get too heckled, but whenever I went off by myself... it was a gauntlet to run and I didn't ever NOT cover up through the whole trip. Got heatstroke thanks to it). I trekked all over Morocco for three months and it was pretty much the same all over. Good thing we were there for the wilderness and not the towns.
The old dudes were all right, very hospitable... still like to compliment a nice face and that's no crime, but the young men and the kids, had to avoid them like the plague and have a dozen 'bodyguards' to put them off.
In Saudi youths take pleasure in chasing women who don't cover up and scaring the beezeejus outta them.
They do everything possible to make sure they are seen as good Muslims within their own community but it just doesn't matter how you treat non-Muslims in some of these places. An exclusive club. Not really about being universally moral but just ticking the boxes in the Koran. Not much fun being seen as a non-Muslim woman in a Muslim country. Knowing what it's like for cis women, I can imagine it's probably not that hard to be taken for one of them even if trans, provided you play their game and hide yourself. Hell, you could probably wear a burka in some and no-one would ever know or bother to check outside airports. If you pass enough, and don't bring attention to yourself I suppose the worst treatment you'd get would be that which cis women receive.
But I'd never live in a country with Islamic law. I don't even want to imagine how a transman would be treated in some of them.
Personally I would never go to one
Neither would I, and be careful as they generally monitor traffic on lgbt stuff too, so accessing this site from there without a vpn is dangerous.
Quote from: amoeba on March 15, 2016, 04:11:26 AM
I'm not from an Arab country, but my former homeland has, almost entirely, a highly conservative Muslim society. I was strictly closeted whilst still there and could not even remotely dream of transitioning, much less even being able to honestly speak to anybody about my dysphoria. Transgender people are relegated to the fringes of society and get virtually zero respect. In fact, it's pretty much downright hostility most of the time. I believe the legal situation has improved recently, however the complete social ostracization is enough to relegate one to a life of poverty and misery.
I remember an incident ages ago when I was 14 or 15 years old, travelling through the city in a car with two of my uncles. These were, relatively speaking, highly educated and progressive people. While stopped at a set of lights, there was a transwoman begging for money. The slurs my uncles used, their whole demeanour and attitude, their needlessly vicious reaction, was all a massive shock and disappointment for me. I knew then that I had to keep a tight wrap on everything and basically never mention it to anyone ever. Super glad I'm not there anymore.
Some light reading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)) if you're interested.
BTW, you're incredibly brave to present as a woman in an Arab country. Please be super careful though.
Thanks honey. Yeah, I cannot tell anyone I am trans. Well, the only one who knows is the Director of where I work.
Quote from: alienbodybuilder on March 15, 2016, 05:06:02 AM
I don't know much about this topic, but it's an interesting story. You're very brave to venture to a foreign country like that- seems easier to be a female in one of those robes because everything would be covered. So may I ask where are you from and why are you traveling there?
Im an American teacher teaching here for a few months. xx
Quote from: stephaniec on March 15, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Personally I would never go to one
Well honey there certainly is some risk. But so far I am being treated as any foreign woman would here. xx
Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 15, 2016, 12:07:22 PM
Neither would I, and be careful as they generally monitor traffic on lgbt stuff too, so accessing this site from there without a vpn is dangerous.
A fellow foreign (i.e., non-Moroccan) friend here has recommended Tor to me which is strong privacy so I will look into Tor for better protection from here.
Well, you definitely have more courage than me. The Arab world is one place I would never go as trans. Given what's going on over there, I would definitely keep a very low profile.
Quote from: stephaniec on March 16, 2016, 11:15:30 PM
Well, you definitely have more courage than me. The Arab world is one place I would never go as trans. Given what's going on over there, I would definitely keep a very low profile.
That is a good idea. Just presenting and acting like any cis woman works fine. So far I have been able to this -- outsid of my first day here when I wore a black UK evening dress down below my knees but that still left too much leg exposed and I got many stares and even some negative public comments while walking -- but that wasn't because I am trans. It is because they took me a cis female, Western, not following the dictate here to cover my legs totally down to my ankle. I've simply used some black leggings I bought at Primark in the UK since then -- and no stares and no negative comments in several times out in public since then. Covers down to my ankles but I use normal eyeshadow, blush, mascara, lipstick, eyeliner, lip pencil, foundation, and so on in public. I just get smiles and no problems. I am simply pegged as a foreign cis woman adherin to local public dress codes. I have to speak in French as not many people here in public speak English. xx
Aren't post-op trans girls just accepted as CIS in the Arab world? I've got a few admirers from there, is it because I look like I could be from there?
wel, Michael Jackson walked around in a Burka
:)
Due to work assignments, I have to travel through Turkey (Istanbul) - first time I was a bit scared because I thought I could face some issues at border control, but so far everything was well. They dont pay much attention to gender markers in passport and the rest goes smoothly as well because they dont know. I have read that turks dont have much respect for transgender people and Turkey is not even "really" Muslim country - or at least it is the most European one.
Quote from: OCAnne on March 17, 2016, 01:13:40 PM
Aren't post-op trans girls just accepted as CIS in the Arab world? I've got a few admirers from there, is it because I look like I could be from there?
Depends which Arabs or Persian countries you're talking about. In Iran being transsexual are legal and you can get treatment, where the government would support you a bit. (Not only to help transsexuals, also to create something homosexuals can "abuse" and use to avoid visible homosexuality in the country. You're allowed to change your own gender and have a relationship with they you likes. But it's not legal to be gay in Iran without gender change) In Saudi-Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc. being homosexual and transsexual are strictly forbidden.
Fact: In Iran it's legal to be trans, but homosexuality get punished by death.
Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 17, 2016, 02:30:09 PM
Depends which Arabs or Persian countries you're talking about. In Iran being transsexual are legal and you can get treatment, where the government would support you a bit. (Not only to help transsexuals, also to create something homosexuals can "abuse" and use to avoid visible homosexuality in the country. You're allowed to change your own gender and have a relationship with they you likes. But it's not legal to be gay in Iran without gender change) In Saudi-Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc. being homosexual and transsexual are strictly forbidden.
Fact: In Iran it's legal to be trans, but homosexuality get punished by death.
Except if one is a passable European transwoman then she would better wear hijab in Iran or else she would run into trouble with Iranian Revolutionary Guards...
Quote from: Emily.P on March 17, 2016, 03:01:38 PM
Except if one is a passable European transwoman then she would better wear hijab in Iran or else she would run into trouble with Iranian Revolutionary Guards...
True that. But did you read my comment? :) I wrote "In Iran being transsexual are legal and you can get treatment, where the government would support you a bit." and I wrote "In Saudi-Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc. being (...) transsexual are strictly forbidden."
Quote from: Emily.P on March 17, 2016, 02:15:00 PM
.... I have read that turks dont have much respect for transgender people and Turkey is not even "really" Muslim country - or at least it is the most European one.
Very true. A trans girl I know from Turkey came to New York 5 years ago to transition and go to school. She was telling me that you can't get into a university if your trans and getting a job being trans is next to impossible. She feels she doesn't blend enough to go back and visit, but in NYC, she blends just fine.
Oh people are talking about my country maybe I can give some info too. :)
Turkey is a constituonally secular country (although majority of people and the ruling party are conservative). So there are no dress codes and trans people are allowed to change their legal gender since 1988. But it is a difficult process, trans people have to get SRS to be recognized as their true gender and even for that they have to get permission from court, and court requires you to get some reports from certain state hospitals. Insurance is supposed to cover SRS but it is almost impossible to find a surgeon willing to do it (who works in a state hospital) so trans people have to get it done in a private hospital. I am not sure how they rule if one gets surgery abroad without court permission. :)
There are currently no laws to protect LGBT people against discrimination at work or other areas, it has been proposed but ruling party was against it. It is a huge problem, a lot of young people who are rejected by their family have to do sex work because of this. I am not sure why would it be a problem to get into a university though.
Public opinion varies, it is probably better in big cities like Istanbul and western cities where more secular people live. We had big LGBT pride marches in recent years in Istanbul. Regardless, if the parliament were to improve LGBT rights few people would object or talk about it more than a few days, because even conservative people are used to seeing LGBT people, especially singers etc. Overall it is not the best or the worst country for trans people to live, but it should be ok to visit. That being said a lot of terrorist attacks occur nowadays so no one is completely safe trans or not. :(
Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 17, 2016, 02:30:09 PM
Depends which Arabs or Persian countries you're talking about. In Iran being transsexual are legal and you can get treatment, where the government would support you a bit. (Not only to help transsexuals, also to create something homosexuals can "abuse" and use to avoid visible homosexuality in the country. You're allowed to change your own gender and have a relationship with they you likes. But it's not legal to be gay in Iran without gender change) In Saudi-Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc. being homosexual and transsexual are strictly forbidden.
Fact: In Iran it's legal to be trans, but homosexuality get punished by death.
I read a few times that Iran has more GRS vagina surgeries than any other country in the world except Thailand. I haven't independently verified that, but it sounds plausible to me since Iran wants trans girls there to "cure the homosexuality" by getting GRS surgery and then finding a husband. Yes this is plausible that the government there helps with financing but I don't know how much and as to funding I haven't independently verified this.
Quote from: Sydney_NYC on March 18, 2016, 11:20:19 PM
Very true. A trans girl I know from Turkey came to New York 5 years ago to transition and go to school. She was telling me that you can't get into a university if your trans and getting a job being trans is next to impossible. She feels she doesn't blend enough to go back and visit, but in NYC, she blends just fine.
Here in Morocco, the Arab country where I am currently working and yes I am typing this while in an Arab country, the only person here who knows I am trans -- says NOT to tell anyone else.
Quote from: Emily.P on March 17, 2016, 03:01:38 PM
Except if one is a passable European transwoman then she would better wear hijab in Iran or else she would run into trouble with Iranian Revolutionary Guards...
Here in the part of Morocco I currently am, on the streets I would say about 50% of the women wear Hijab (head scar covering the head) but I see only about 10% of the women wearing burka (total face covering).
I wear normal makeup as I wear when I have been in London, Barcelona, or most other Western places, as do many women here. Though a Moroccan female friend here told me she doesn't as a Muslim wear makeup, because it shows better modesty not to wear makeup.
My makeup in public gives me zero problems. If you met me on the streets of London where I was in 2015, you would see me wearing the same makeup I am wearing on the street here in Morocco.
She and a male Muslim friend here, as well as an online friend in Saudi Arabia, has confirmed to me that if I or any other woman were to go to Saudi Arabia, wearing a hijab and burka (complete hair and face covering) would be a total necessity to avoid truly drastic problems. I sure believe them -- they are in a position to know.
And this aspect of Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with being trans -- it is about being a woman.
In some ways, it is nice to confirm that I do well enough at going "stealth" here -- since I sure the heck cannot reveal that I am trans. This confirms to me that others here are simply regarding me as female -- never mind the trans part.
That is actually quite nice. :)
Quote from: xFreya on March 19, 2016, 06:14:58 AM
Oh people are talking about my country maybe I can give some info too. :)
Turkey is a constituonally secular country (although majority of people and the ruling party are conservative). So there are no dress codes and trans people are allowed to change their legal gender since 1988. But it is a difficult process, trans people have to get SRS to be recognized as their true gender and even for that they have to get permission from court, and court requires you to get some reports from certain state hospitals. Insurance is supposed to cover SRS but it is almost impossible to find a surgeon willing to do it (who works in a state hospital) so trans people have to get it done in a private hospital. I am not sure how they rule if one gets surgery abroad without court permission. :)
There are currently no laws to protect LGBT people against discrimination at work or other areas, it has been proposed but ruling party was against it. It is a huge problem, a lot of young people who are rejected by their family have to do sex work because of this. I am not sure why would it be a problem to get into a university though.
Public opinion varies, it is probably better in big cities like Istanbul and western cities where more secular people live. We had big LGBT pride marches in recent years in Istanbul. Regardless, if the parliament were to improve LGBT rights few people would object or talk about it more than a few days, because even conservative people are used to seeing LGBT people, especially singers etc. Overall it is not the best or the worst country for trans people to live, but it should be ok to visit. That being said a lot of terrorist attacks occur nowadays so no one is completely safe trans or not. :(
Thank you honey for sharing this detailed information. I have never been to Turkey. I agree that right now the bombing risk is more of the risk than risk against me because I am trans. Probably I would stay in major cities though. My passport is female gender -- so this helps me a lot at international border crossing. xx
Quote from: amoeba on March 15, 2016, 04:11:26 AM
I'm not from an Arab country, but my former homeland has, almost entirely, a highly conservative Muslim society. I was strictly closeted whilst still there and could not even remotely dream of transitioning, much less even being able to honestly speak to anybody about my dysphoria. Transgender people are relegated to the fringes of society and get virtually zero respect. In fact, it's pretty much downright hostility most of the time. I believe the legal situation has improved recently, however the complete social ostracization is enough to relegate one to a life of poverty and misery.
I remember an incident ages ago when I was 14 or 15 years old, travelling through the city in a car with two of my uncles. These were, relatively speaking, highly educated and progressive people. While stopped at a set of lights, there was a transwoman begging for money. The slurs my uncles used, their whole demeanour and attitude, their needlessly vicious reaction, was all a massive shock and disappointment for me. I knew then that I had to keep a tight wrap on everything and basically never mention it to anyone ever. Super glad I'm not there anymore.
Some light reading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)) if you're interested.
BTW, you're incredibly brave to present as a woman in an Arab country. Please be super careful though.
Thank you honey. Yes it would be very difficult to START a MTF transition in Morocco. Trans girls are in the fringes o society here.
Only because I have decided to "take the plunge" and in my day-to-day in-person life "go stealth" meaning telling no one I am trans face to face except one person who absolutely needed to know ---
The gender marker on my passport is female so crossing international borders I am fine -- no issues at all.
When I arrived 2 weeks ago I used the woman's public toilet restroom as I obviously always do. No issues at all. Not a second glance, just smiles. No ID required. The 2 female attendants simply smiled at me as I wished them hello in Arabic. This was at the airport when arriving in the country. xx
Quote from: DAWN MID GIRL on March 15, 2016, 08:49:12 AM
I unfortunately know how things are in the Arab world it's despicable to put it nicely.
I hope your very careful over there!!!
BY FOR NOW
Thanks honey for saying that about my safety.
I can't really understand why you'd go there. There's so many interesting places in the world to go, and interesting things to do, why pick that one?