North Carolina Governor Signs Repeal of LGBT Protections
http://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/3/23/north-carolina-house-strikes-down-lgbt-protections-statewide
The Advocate.com
By Sunnivie Brydum
March 23 2016 4:09 PM EDT Updated March 23 2016 11:03 PM EDT
In the span of a single day, North Carolina lawmakers introduced and passed a bill through two houses and got it signed by the governor. That seemingly urgent bill strikes down all existing LGBT-inclusive nondiscrimination ordinances across the state.
North Carolina lawmakers voted overwhelmingly today during a special legislative session that was called in response to Charlotte, N.C. passing a transgender-inclusive nondiscrimination ordinance.
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Soooooooooooooooooo extremely short-sighted. Discrimination laws may be fine when you are in the majority, but if you become the minority they can be used against you. Let's say there is a religious group that says Christians have the right to convert or die, where does it go? Nazis started with discrimination well before killing people. This is a VERY DANGEROUS slippery slope these lawmakers and their Christian supporters have taken the first ride on. Unless they realize that ALL people are deserving of protection, they or their children will rue this day in the future.
This is one of the most horrible news items ever posted in our news area. An entire U.S. state has actually enacted a law that outlaws us. A very dark day.
Heaven help us.
Between North Carolina and Georgia driving down the East Coast to Florida is becoming problematic. I may need to invest in some catheters or, ugh, fly!
It's sad that our state passed this!
In their zeal to pass this law North Carolina has opened themselves up to lawsuits and a loss of federal funding - the new law runs afoul of federal laws and title IX. Money talks, and when the results of this law starts hitting them squarely in the pocket book I'll bet that the politicians will be hearing from their constituents and will be having second thoughts about what they've done.
Hopefully the cost from lawsuits and lost funding is so painful that North Carolina rescinds this law quickly. States keep flirting with these discriminatory laws and to stop them from being proposed a state needed to be made an example of - and North Carolina just stepped up for the job.
Hopefully after North Carolina pays the price other states will quit entertaining these kinds of proposals.
Yes the pain is just beginning for them. It is like the time where some states fought stubbornly to maintain segregation. Wrong side of history and will set them back.
Dozens protest North Carolina Governor's mansion after anti-LGBT bill passed
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/25/dozens-protest-north-carolina-governors-mansion-after-anti-lgbt-bill-passed/
Pink News/By Joseph Patrick McCormick 03/25/2016
"After he signed into law a bill outlawing local LGBT ordinances, protesters have taken to the Governor North Carolina's mansion.
Last night the US state of North Carolina passed the law which voids all local ordinances protecting LGBT rights. "
Quote from: stephaniec on March 24, 2016, 10:19:05 PM
Dozens protest North Carolina Governor's mansion after anti-LGBT bill passed
Too little, too late. The time to educate people about our bathroom needs is before they start making laws against us.
They introduced and passed this particular bill, and the governor signed it, in one day; it was a deliberate tactic to prevent opposition. There was no time to organize protests, contact NC businesses, or educate legislators on why it was a bad idea.
Here is a handy list of contact information for some of the big businesses in NC. They can be our allies in getting this overturned.
http://lexiecannes.com/2016/03/24/contact-list-of-major-north-carolina-businessesorganizations-easy-to-use-and-please-share/
18 States including my own have specific protections for gender expression.
When i asked management at my Gym if it was ok for me to start using the women's locker room. Their response was "of course its ok " and the look on the manager's face was like...what took you so long?
We need an ERA more than ever at the Federal level. State's Rights is just code for preserving bigotry and reactionary politics.
Its made the New York Times
Transgender Law Makes North Carolina Pioneer in Bigotry
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/opinion/transgender-law-makes-north-carolina-pioneer-in-bigotry.html
Governor McCrory had to do this on a hurry-up basis. He's running for re-election in November, and his public support has fallen steadily over his first term in office, to the point where it looked like he could very well lose his re-election bid.
Once again, LGBT people are thrown under the bus by a Republican office holder pandering to bigotry of his political base.
Congratulations North Carolina, you've taken title of least welcoming state from us here in Indiana.
I for one am getting awfully tired of being treated like public enemy #1. Sad..... really sad.......
Quote from: AnonyMs on March 25, 2016, 11:16:05 AM
Its made the New York Times
Transgender Law Makes North Carolina Pioneer in Bigotry
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/opinion/transgender-law-makes-north-carolina-pioneer-in-bigotry.html
'Under the law, people in North Carolina are required to use public restrooms that match the gender on their birth certificate. Transgender people in the state can request to have their birth certificate changed only if they have had gender reassignment surgery.'Apparently this law appears to target the broader transgender (umbrella) community. Not necessarily transsexual folks. Also out of states individuals that have changed their gender on birth certificate would not run afoul of the law.
What I still don't get, is how does enforcement work, what is man or woman looking enough to get a bathroom pass? Are they going to look under skirts and in pants to make sure things match up?
This really opens up a witch-hunt for anyone that does not meet social expectations on what a man or woman should look like.
Thought: Perhaps companies on record in protest of the new law and our Federal Government can help with an exodus of our community from North Carolina to avoid human right violations and persecution. Lets get our people out of there until the bigots new law is repealed or defeated.
This law flys in the face of individuals constitutional right to pursue happiness.
Thank you,
Anne
EOM
Here's another dirty secret about North Carolina that few know (which has existed for many years), but could have a dramatic impact on a certain few members of the trans* community: You are allowed only ONE legal name change your whole adult life that is not marriage-related^ - no ifs, ands, or buts (some other states may call for greater scrutiny on multiple name changes, especially within a short time, but NC is the only one that I know of with an absolute restriction of just ONE legal name change ever).
^Name changes due to marriage/divorce (or to restore a former name) don't count, and if your name was changed when you were a minor that doesn't count towards the one allowed name change either.
That means for trans* people in NC who have previously legally changed their name (outside of marriage/divorce and as an adult) the only way to get a gender-appropriate legal name is to move to another state and change it there.
Quote from: Tysilio on March 25, 2016, 10:05:06 AM
They introduced and passed this particular bill, and the governor signed it, in one day; it was a deliberate tactic to prevent opposition. There was no time to organize protests, contact NC businesses, or educate legislators on why it was a bad idea.
Here is a handy list of contact information for some of the big businesses in NC. They can be our allies in getting this overturned.
http://lexiecannes.com/2016/03/24/contact-list-of-major-north-carolina-businessesorganizations-easy-to-use-and-please-share/
The company I work for in NC is global and one of the largest companies in the world and probably the largest in NC. I guess they had their say against this law by allowing, actually telling me to use the ladies room and I'm going to continue using it.
Quote from: tgchar21 on March 25, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
Here's another dirty secret about North Carolina that few know (which has existed for many years), but could have a dramatic impact on a certain few members of the trans* community: You are allowed only ONE legal name change your whole adult life that is not marriage-related^ - no ifs, ands, or buts (some other states may call for greater scrutiny on multiple name changes, especially within a short time, but NC is the only one that I know of with an absolute restriction of just ONE legal name change ever).
^Name changes due to marriage/divorce (or to restore a former name) don't count, and if your name was changed when you were a minor that doesn't count towards the one allowed name change either.
That means for trans* people in NC who have previously legally changed their name (outside of marriage/divorce and as an adult) the only way to get a gender-appropriate legal name is to move to another state and change it there.
I had my name legally changed in South Carolina but I was born in Louisiana so I'm trying to get the name change executory in Louisiana so I get my birth certificate updated. They don't make it easy.
Quote from: OCAnne on March 25, 2016, 03:02:30 PM
'Under the law, people in North Carolina are required to use public restrooms that match the gender on their birth certificate. Transgender people in the state can request to have their birth certificate changed only if they have had gender reassignment surgery.'
Apparently this law appears to target the broader transgender (umbrella) community. Not necessarily transsexual folks. Also out of states individuals that have changed their gender on birth certificate would not run afoul of the law.
What I still don't get, is how does enforcement work, what is man or woman looking enough to get a bathroom pass? Are they going to look under skirts and in pants to make sure things match up?
This really opens up a witch-hunt for anyone that does not meet social expectations on what a man or woman should look like.
Thought: Perhaps companies on record in protest of the new law and our Federal Government can help with an exodus of our community from North Carolina to avoid human right violations and persecution. Lets get our people out of there until the bigots new law is repealed or defeated.
This law flys in the face of individuals constitutional right to pursue happiness.
Thank you,
Anne
EOM
The difficulty in policing the bathrooms makes this law unenforceable. By the time some idiot called the cops on someone they suspect was transgendered the person would have done their business and be gone.
Quote from: OCAnne on March 25, 2016, 03:02:30 PM
'Under the law, people in North Carolina are required to use public restrooms that match the gender on their birth certificate. Transgender people in the state can request to have their birth certificate changed only if they have had gender reassignment surgery.'
I read this transcript of the proceedings. Not everyone can change their birth certificate even with surgery since 3 states (including TN where I was born) and yet some states like CA and NY you can change it without surgery. This fact makes the law unconstitutional since it's not possible for someone to meet this criteria for some people. It was even mentioned by a women in the proceedings of a woman who stated her partner is trans, has had surgery but can not change her birth certificate since she is from a foreign country, but they totally ignored her on that point.
Quote from: OCAnne on March 25, 2016, 03:02:30 PM
Apparently this law appears to target the broader transgender (umbrella) community. Not necessarily transsexual folks. Also out of states individuals that have changed their gender on birth certificate would not run afoul of the law.
What I still don't get, is how does enforcement work, what is man or woman looking enough to get a bathroom pass? Are they going to look under skirts and in pants to make sure things match up?
This really opens up a witch-hunt for anyone that does not meet social expectations on what a man or woman should look like.
Thought: Perhaps companies on record in protest of the new law and our Federal Government can help with an exodus of our community from North Carolina to avoid human right violations and persecution. Lets get our people out of there until the bigots new law is repealed or defeated.
This law flys in the face of individuals constitutional right to pursue happiness.
Thank you,
Anne
EOM
This law is next to impossible to enforce. Who carries their birth certificate with them? I just learned today I may need to go down to NC for a client of mine for a meeting. I'm still going to use the women's bathroom since no one knows unless I tell them and my ID and Passport say Female. ( I never changed my name on my birth certificate.) If I do get fined (it's 2nd degree trespass which is a minor misdemeanor charge with a fine only) I would fight it as discriminatory.
From my interpretation the law only repeals the city ordinance but does not contain language actually prohibiting transgendered people from using bathrooms consistent with their gender identity.
Quote from: Amy1988 on March 25, 2016, 10:37:35 PM
From my interpretation the law only repeals the city ordinance but does not contain language actually prohibiting transgendered people from using bathrooms consistent with their gender identity.
Unfortunately it does restrict bathrooms statewide to biological sex which according to the law is determined by a person birth certificate. You can read the finalized version here (http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf).
Quote from: Sydney_NYC on March 25, 2016, 10:26:42 PM
This law is next to impossible to enforce.
I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.
For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.
Worse still if we try to follow it. I posed the following to a friend who tried to defend the idea (just because he has a habit of being "devil's advocate" I think):
Actually, since you've turned my light-hearted post into a mishegosh, let's look at it from the other side. I've gotten confused looks from people walking into a MENS' room in the past year. So, say I'm traveling through NC and steel myself to wear men's clothing (ask (*Sweetie*) about the panic attack I had wearing a suit on a cruise a year and a half ago) and enter a mens' room. I could still be arrested and detained. Do you suggest I should travel with my birth certificate? "Papers, please", anyone?
I do carry a certified copy of my birth certificate with correct gender...don't know why since I can lift my skirt if it becomes an issue. Which is a great reason not to wear panties. Can't wait to pull that off with the TSA!
My friend carry's a copy in glove box of her car just in case she's arrested. Guess she does not want to get thrown in with the guys...not-sure why. :P
Once again how will they enforce this law? Outside bathroom: 'Mom that looks like a man, why honey? She's too tall. OK let call the police.' Police: 'Can I see some ID? It indicates you are female but in my opinion you look too masculine to be a woman. Would you summit to a genital search or I'll have to arrest you.' Why? Probable cause.
EOM
I've seen women in the mens bathroom at the new years Sydney fireworks. The lines for the women's get too long. No one says anything, it more funny than anything for the guys.
How would that work in the USA?
When it happens nobody cares.
Sapere Aude
To get a good idea of how things are here, just look at women the same way you look at small children; they're weak, vulnerable, and need to be protected. Sometimes they even need to be told what to do for their own good. If there's a perceived threat, particularly to white women, the rednecks who consider themselves to be knights in shining armor will do whatever they have to in order to protect them. That group includes members of the police, legislature, etc.; they're everywhere, all the way up to the highest echelons of power.
To be trans-feminine is to threaten not just the hyper-masculine identity of the Southern Male (and sexuality if you're attractive), but to be a threat to the innocent, fragile women.
Being trans-masculine is like a kid playing pretend dress-up; it will make some of the men uncomfortable, but they'd never admit to it because to do so would be weak. They would be threatened by what they consider to be a female, which is laughable in their eyes.
At least that's what I see. I used to think NC was a lot more progressive than all this, but I see an overwhelming amount of regressive mindset here these days. A lot of seemingly decent, reasonable people start espousing some really, really wrong-headed ideas if you probe them enough on politics or gender issues and stuff.
There are a lot of really awesome people too, but they're not the ones in charge.
What about a private business? My employer in NC told me to use the women's bathroom. So does the law apply to private business.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 26, 2016, 08:19:27 AM
I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.
For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.
How long does it take to pee at the Quick Trip? Couple minutes. By the time cops get there you're gone. That's if they even bother to respond. I mean talk about a low priority.
Quote from: Amy1988 on March 26, 2016, 11:18:11 AM
What about a private business? My employer in NC told me to use the women's bathroom. So does the law apply to private business.
Yes, if it employs more than
15 people.
Quote from: Deborah on March 26, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
Yes, if it employs more than 15 people.
Can you post a link to the source?
Here it is: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf
Sapere Aude
While this situation is a sad and dangerous effort by some lawmakers in NC I am taking the longer term view. Their knee jerk, fear and ignorance, rally the fundamentalists based reaction will ultimately backfire. While this is blatant discrimination it furthers our visibility and our issues. Much like Trumps free air time for being a jerk, this is a transgender awareness opportunity featuring a red herring.
I fully expect this rushed law will be challenged and may end up in the NC or federal Supreme Court where it will be struck down on many grounds. Just look at what SCOTUS did for marriage.
We do need ENDA and the ERA and more and this is happening. It is tragic that there will be harm done along the way as the rear guard fights the inevitability of our full and public acceptance. Love and reason will triumph and trump the hate and discrimination so evident in the NC bill. I have live through times when LGBTQ people were virtually all in the closet, when jim crow and racial segregation were the law and people in wheel chairs stayed home.
We can expect more coverage and outrage and opportunities for people to examine their own hearts and minds. We must be there to explain the harm and real danger this discrimination represents. People are awakening and it is no wonder that the fastest growing affiliation for religion is "none of the above."
This is a reflection of and supported by fundamentalist ideologues. They are hoisting themselves on their own petards and ready for the roasting they richly deserve for such blatant hate. BBQ sauce anyone ;D >:-)
Quote from: Deborah on March 26, 2016, 11:44:16 AM
Here it is: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf
Sapere Aude
Ok I went and read the actual law namely 14-159.13 that qualifies a violation as (without authorization). I have authorization from my employer to use the ladies room. At the mall I guess I could get what a citation? since it's a class 3 misdemeanor? But I pass so easy no one even notices me.
Quote from: IdontEvenBeing trans-masculine is like a kid playing pretend dress-up; it will make some of the men uncomfortable, but they'd never admit to it because to do so would be weak. They would be threatened by what they consider to be a female, which is laughable in their eyes.
I can tell you one thing. If I were to obey this law and start using the women's room, I can guarantee that those men would not want me peeing with their wives -- who would probably call the cops on me for being that (non-existent) pervy man who just says he feels like a woman that day. I'm glad I'm not in NC, because I also don't think this would end well for me,
despite the fact that I'd be obeying their damn law.
Quote from: Tessa JamesWhile this situation is a sad and dangerous effort by some lawmakers in NC I am taking the longer term view. Their knee jerk, fear and ignorance, rally the fundamentalists based reaction will ultimately backfire. While this is blatant discrimination it furthers our visibility and our issues. Much like Trumps free air time for being a jerk, this is a transgender awareness opportunity featuring a red herring.
I fully expect this rushed law will be challenged and may end up in the NC or federal Supreme Court where it will be struck down on many grounds. Just look at what SCOTUS did for marriage.
Tessa, I think (hope) that in the long run you're right. There will be a SCOTUS ruling in our favor sooner or later.
In the meantime, though, fighting this sort of thing state by state is a huge drain on our resources of time, money, and energy -- and there are so many things we could accomplish if we didn't have to be constantly fighting these hateful, reactionary attempts to go back to a
status quo which never really existed in the first place.
I don't post on here much, I am usually too scared to. I will say something now. I went to visit my mom in the upper part of South Carolina, and while I was there, saw what happened in NC. My mom only lives about 45 min. from NC. This has really upset me, as I know that the governor of South Carolina is right behind NC. I don't know what I would do if this happened where I live. It hits close to home, and I fear it WILL happen here soon. I served my country the best I could given the circumstances, but I feel that I will be searching for a new country to call mine if this keeps up.
Anyone know how to apply for citizenship to Canada or any other country? (I would rather die than be a part of this one if it keeps going the direction it is.)
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 26, 2016, 08:19:27 AM
I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.
For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.
This has been going around that I thought was appropriate about this:
Think You Can Enforce House Bill 2? Take This Easy Quiz! (http://chapelboro.com/featured/think-youve-got-what-it-takes-to-enforce-house-bill-2-take-this-easy-quiz)
Quote from: Sydney_NYC on March 27, 2016, 12:11:12 AM
This has been going around that I thought was appropriate about this:
Think You Can Enforce House Bill 2? Take This Easy Quiz! (http://chapelboro.com/featured/think-youve-got-what-it-takes-to-enforce-house-bill-2-take-this-easy-quiz)
Folks are thinking this sort of argument will convince the folks who want to erase us that bills like HB 2 are misguided.
I wonder if it will do
exactly the opposite.
The purpose of the FRC pushing bills like these is precisely because they are sick of not being able to tell the men from the women. In their world view, men should be men and women should be women, and by effectively outlawing transgender identities, in their eyes they're making it harder for us to live our "lifestyle". Their thinking goes that if they make it hard enough (and they have only just begun their war against us), we'll decided to stop being what they consider sinful. IMO the claim that they're protecting "safety" is just a pretense.
In a sense they're right. If things get hot enough, some of us will slink back into the closet who otherwise would have transitioned.
So, while arguments like these may seem like they'll convince people that laws like HB2 are ill-advised, to many they are an illustration of the very reason they think laws like this are needed.
Last night I went to the ladies room at the Quick Trip and walked right past two cops standing there talking. They both smiled at me as I entered. My heart was pounding in my chest I thought I was going to pass out.