It's possible I might be opening a can of worms here. It is not my intention to offend anybody, I'm just trying to find some answers.
I am struggling to come to terms with possibly being transgender. I will have moments when I think I have finally found a way to accept myself as trans and all seems well. Then I would be overcome by guilt and doubt starts to set in and I cannot believe that I am trans, but instead I am suffering some kind of mental illness.
I have been seeing a gender therapist for about 6 months now, and have also just started seeing another therapist to help me deal with my self hatred that also seems to plague me.
Thinking logically, being trans seems to be the best explanation. I just can't seem to bring myself to accept the fact. Each time I have those short periods of thinking I have started to accept myself, I actually do believe that this time I am accepting for real, but it never seems to last. I work in a male dominated environment (100% males). I love my job, and work with a pretty good bunch of guys. I guess that makes me feel like I'm ok being a guy and then the doubts start coming back. There is always this constant feeling of believing I should be a woman, it varies from a slight feeling just lingering in the background to an overwhelming desire to become a woman.
I have started taking some anti depressants hoping they would help reduce some of the dysphoria, but so far they seem to have no effect.
Does anybody else feel this way, and how do you deal with it?
Jayne
You leave the door open to many possibilities. The first is where you might be fluid/bi gender. If you are, sometimes you will feel female and sometimes you will feel male. It's possible to enjoy male tasks while feeling female. If that is correct, your identity is more on the female end of the scale and stuck in place.
Where every you are on the scale, this isn't a mental illness and you were born with it. Our birth sex hormone reacts rather badly with our brain because our brain was designed before birth to use the opposite hormone thats present.
I am not surprised that anti depressants have little or no effect. The were designed to target something entirely different. What would work and prove you are transgender is a hormone blocker. Removal of the birth sex hormone should within a few week reduce or eliminate the dysphoria that you feel. Sex hormones are not as important in this test but they could be used in low dose.
I understand much of the confusion you are facing because when I transitioned, the cause of ->-bleeped-<- wasn't understood. Blockers weren't available so only the few of us who were luck enough to have the estrogen block T production felt freedom before surgery. Now it has become a standard part of treatment.
While I don't think you are fluid but because I am not sure, I am including some links you might find useful.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,202966.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201219.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196073.0.html
Hi Dena,
Thanks for your reply. I was under the impression that blockers were used for children to delay puberty. Do they also work on adults? I am 43.
Jayne
Sounds like you're describing exactly the denial, internalised transphobia and attempts at failed rationalisation I struggled through for 20 years. I coped by pushing my depression deeper and deeper until it could be compressed no more. Self acceptance certainly proved to be my saving grace (no pun intended!)
The most common modern day HRT for MTF involved blockers to suppress the T production and estrogen to develop feminine features. Adults report that within a few weeks, the discomfort is greatly reduced. Sometime I suspect there may be a down side because the drive to transition is eliminated. They then stop HRT thinking they are cured and the dysphoria returns to it's normal levels.
The blocker will not reverse the damage that has already happened. In children, it prevents the damage from happening giving them time to make up there mind. In adults the main benefit is that you are no longer climbing the wall all the time because of your discomfort.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 02:55:33 PM
Hi Dena,
Thanks for your reply. I was under the impression that blockers were used for children to delay puberty. Do they also work on adults? I am 43.
Jayne
Yes, blockers do work. They lowered my Testosterone from a level well above average to nearly non-existent. The dysphoria largely disappeared and I have never felt better, including having pretty high energy levels.
Thanks for that. I might ask my therapist for her thoughts next time I see her.
I read somewhere (don't remember where) that your body needs hormones to be healthy and not effect your immune system. If that is true, I am guessing that taking blockers long term without hormones would not be advisable. Otherwise if the blockers alone can eliminate the dysphoria, why would you want to continue transitioning? Am I misunderstanding something here?
Jayne
I agree with Dena that your nature is causing your pain, and I agree with Grace that your nurture is impeding the alleviation of your pain.
Could you elaborate why you feel guilty when acting on what makes you happy? Somewhere I think there is a flaw in your logic, which rectifying would be the necessary first step towards a better life.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 04:52:53 PM
Otherwise if the blockers alone can eliminate the dysphoria, why would you want to continue transitioning?
One reason could be for the reason you gave in your prior two sentences. Another reason is that you want to.
Most of my guilt comes from putting my wife in such a difficult position. She is my whole world to me, and it just feels wrong for me to expect her to accept me as a woman. It was after being together for 15 years that I came out to her. Not because I was deliberately trying to hide anything but because I didn't know what was happening myself. Now I feel I have somehow deceived and betrayed my wife. That creates an enormous amount of guilt inside me.
Jayne
Sex hormones help hold the calcium in your bones. I just returned to them but I was off of them for 10 years without ill effect. I was also very careful to keep enough calcium in my diet so my body didn't need to take calcium from my bones. In addition, nobody in my family seems to have issues with bone issues as they aged.
I said the blockers reduce the dysphoria. Children as young as 3 know when they are transgender but puberty really cranks up the volume in many of us. Some of us can live with a reduced dysphoria and avoid the transition. In my case, completing the transition completely eliminated any discomfort I had and even now I have no desire to return to the male role. It's a personal decision and only you will be able to decide what is right for you.
We have a heavy non binary population on this site and it's composed of many people living between male and female. They have found a life were they are comfortable and it's not the path of a transsexual. They may have taken many of the steps that a transsexual would take but they didn't need all of it.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 05:06:03 PM
Most of my guilt comes from putting my wife in such a difficult position. She is my whole world to me, and it just feels wrong for me to expect her to accept me as a woman. It was after being together for 15 years that I came out to her. Not because I was deliberately trying to hide anything but because I didn't know what was happening myself. Now I feel I have somehow deceived and betrayed my wife. That creates an enormous amount of guilt inside me.
Jayne
You're looking at transition as a choice between two options. If the present state of your marriage is more valuable to you than living full time as a woman, there are manifold compromises.
Think about the things that would make you happy, weigh them against the costs, and move forward.
Thank you Dena. Now that you mentioned it, I remembered about the hormones and bones. It wasn't the immune system.
I'll check out the non binary section. I wish there wasn't this confusion in my head. There just isn't any clear picture in my mind of how I see myself in the future. It's just a fuzzy blur.
Jayne
I am no longer certain if I'm mtf trans or non-binary. It's kind of confusing to my mind. But along with the blockers I'm also taking a full transition dose of estrogen and progesterone. That probably has a lot to do with my high energy levels and positive state of mind. What changes have occurred so far feel perfectly right.
Sapere Aude
A few months ago, my wife and I went out shopping and she helped me pick out a dress I could wear at home. I wore it a few times and when I looked in the mirror all I saw was this pathetic guy wearing a dress. I then just hung it up and left it there for several weeks. I ended up feeling so ashamed and guilty and embarrassed that I took the dress into the backyard, put it in a bucket, poured fuel over it and set it on fire. I sat there watching it burn until there was nothing but ashes left.
I don't know if I am capable to ever get past this guilt and shame.
Jayne
Im glad the hormones are working well for you Deborah.
The only way you will be happy is accepting the transgender part of your self and finding a way to live with it. Many of us have. Looks take work and the last person who will see the feminine you will be you. I lived as a woman almost 2 years before I could see the female in the mirror.
If you are going to look at the non binary, you might want to look at our Wiki (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Transgender) first so you will have an idea what some of the options are in the non binary life. Sometime, people start out in one place and as they explore themselves they move into another. Don't worry so much about a final solution, just worry about a starting point.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 05:28:24 PM
A few months ago, my wife and I went out shopping and she helped me pick out a dress I could wear at home. I wore it a few times and when I looked in the mirror all I saw was this pathetic guy wearing a dress. I then just hung it up and left it there for several weeks. I ended up feeling so ashamed and guilty and embarrassed that I took the dress into the backyard, put it in a bucket, poured fuel over it and set it on fire. I sat there watching it burn until there was nothing but ashes left.
I don't know if I am capable to ever get past this guilt and shame.
Jayne
How many males look good in dresses?
What would slightly make the person in the mirror more like someone you rather be? Different health habits? Different grooming? Different wardrobe?
Whatever will improve life, do it, and keep doing it.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 05:28:24 PM
A few months ago, my wife and I went out shopping and she helped me pick out a dress I could wear at home. I wore it a few times and when I looked in the mirror all I saw was this pathetic guy wearing a dress. I then just hung it up and left it there for several weeks. I ended up feeling so ashamed and guilty and embarrassed that I took the dress into the backyard, put it in a bucket, poured fuel over it and set it on fire. I sat there watching it burn until there was nothing but ashes left.
I don't know if I am capable to ever get past this guilt and shame.
Jayne
I bought a few pieces of feminine clothing before HRT, too, and had almost the same reaction. Now, after HRT I look quite good in them. I had thought I would take a low dose and stay basically the same. It didn't happen. Spironolactone and estradiol were like a long, cool, drink of water to my parched psyche. I felt as you do about my wife but eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't fair to make her live with the horrible, touchy, broken man I had been, even if I managed to survive much longer being him. We're still together, greatly changed, and I can't honestly say that we will stay together but either way it's a better outcome than we were facing.
That doesn't mean that my path is yours, do what you think best. Just remember that no step is irreversible except the step of admitting to her that you may be trans. That one can't be taken back. Try HRT, try avoiding it, but be honest with yourself and her either way.
Quote from: autumn08 on March 26, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
How many males look good in dresses?
That is kind of my point. I am a male with distinctly male features. I have big hands, an enormous head (even compared to other males), rough looking face. You could be blind drunk and would never mistaken me for female. I would always feel like a guy wearing a dress.
Quote
What would slightly make the person in the mirror more like someone you rather be? Different health habits? Different grooming? Different wardrobe?
Whatever will improve life, do it, and keep doing it.
I have no idea how to answer that. I draw a complete blank. I think I have spent so long dissociating my mind from my body, when I look in the mirror it is almost always a surprise to see what I look like.
Jayne
Quote from: autumn08 on March 26, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
How many males look good in dresses?
That is kind of my point. I am a male with distinctly male features. I have big hands, an enormous head (even compared to other males), rough looking face. You could be blind drunk and would never mistaken me for female. I would always feel like a guy wearing a dress.
Quote
What would slightly make the person in the mirror more like someone you rather be? Different health habits? Different grooming? Different wardrobe?
Whatever will improve life, do it, and keep doing it.
I have no idea how to answer that. I draw a complete blank. I think I have spent so long dissociating my mind from my body, when I look in the mirror it is almost always a surprise to see what I look like.
Jayne
Quote from: autumn08 on March 26, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
How many males look good in dresses?
That is kind of my point. I am a male with distinctly male features. I have big hands, an enormous head (even compared to other males), rough looking face. You could be blind drunk and would never mistaken me for female. I would always feel like a guy wearing a dress.
Quote
What would slightly make the person in the mirror more like someone you rather be? Different health habits? Different grooming? Different wardrobe?
Whatever will improve life, do it, and keep doing it.
I have no idea how to answer that. I draw a complete blank. I think I have spent so long dissociating my mind from my body, when I look in the mirror it is almost always a surprise to see what I look like.
Jayne
I take an extra large brain bucket and when shoulder pads were in, the first thing I did with a new garment was to rip the out because I didn't need them for the look. I have some pictures of me before that I cringe when I look at them. I have slim arms with big hands on the end so I am careful not to display my hands in ways that make them look big.
We all have our flaws and the first part of the transition is learning how to deal with them. If a dress makes you uncomfortable, you can wear feminine clothes under your normal wear or wear woman's pants and other items that you are comfortable in. The truth is I haven't worn a skirt in about 10 or 15 years because I haven't had the place to wear one.
I suspect there are very few things you have been able to do right the first time without dealing with the leaning curve. Just like almost everything you do in life, you will have to take time learning to do it right.
I take an extra large brain bucket and when shoulder pads were in, the first thing I did with a new garment was to rip the out because I didn't need them for the look. I have some pictures of me before that I cringe when I look at them. I have slim arms with big hands on the end so I am careful not to display my hands in ways that make them look big.
We all have our flaws and the first part of the transition is learning how to deal with them. If a dress makes you uncomfortable, you can wear feminine clothes under your normal wear or wear woman's pants and other items that you are comfortable in. The truth is I haven't worn a skirt in about 10 or 15 years because I haven't had the place to wear one.
I suspect there are very few things you have been able to do right the first time without dealing with the leaning curve. Just like almost everything you do in life, you will have to take time learning to do it right.
Thanks Dena. Reading back through my posts, I see that I can sound very negative. To me it seems like an huge, massive obstacle to get over even to make the smallest changes. I suppose being unable to find a way to accept myself is what the main obstacle is. I have been seeing my gender therapist almost every week for 6 months or more. I have also seen a couples therapist with my wife who specialises in gender identity and I am now also seeing another therapist to help me with my self loathing. I just can't seem to get to the point where I accept myself. There are brief periods where I think I finally accept me only to come crashing down within a week and then returning back to the beginning. That is why I keep wondering if I am really trans or if I have some kind of illness and just "think" I am trans. It is driving me crazy.
Jayne
I suspect it's fear. There are many things to fear such as not passing, being kidded or rejected by others and even facing a new and unknown life. I know all the ways to read a person and I know I haven't covered everything that would out me. Am I worried about it - no. People aren't that rude or mean and the few people who have approached me about it have done it in a respectful way.
You are perfectly sane and the most difficult part of this is deciding to be yourself. That's the same thing that keeps use from coming out and makes it so hard to walk out the door as you for the first time. After you are out that door a few times, it gets easer each time.
You will never be able to logically reason this out as I was never able to. This is a feeling much like love, hate and anger. The difference is most people aren't born with it and this is what makes you different from everybody else. It's hard but you have to make this decision with your heart and not your head. That was how I made my peace with myself many years ago and I never regretted that decision.
Thanks Dena. That was a very nice reply. It made a lot of sense. It is such a big first step. I know once the first step is made, subsequent steps become easier. It's a scary process.
Jayne
You can't change your desire to be the opposite sex, so what difference does the cause of your desire have upon your decision making?
I can't think of an argument for there being something wrong with becoming the opposite sex, but there are steps that can presently be more detrimental than beneficial. Experiment.
Quote from: autumn08 on March 26, 2016, 10:54:47 PM
You can't change your desire to be the opposite sex, so what difference does the cause of your desire have upon your decision making?
I can't think of an argument for there being something wrong with becoming the opposite sex, but there are steps that can presently be more detrimental than beneficial. Experiment.
Wouldn't it be wrong if becoming the opposite sex will cause hurt and pain to the ones you love?
Quote from: autumn08 on March 26, 2016, 10:54:47 PM
You can't change your desire to be the opposite sex, so what difference does the cause of your desire have upon your decision making?
I can't think of an argument for there being something wrong with becoming the opposite sex, but there are steps that can presently be more detrimental than beneficial. Experiment.
Wouldn't it be wrong if becoming the opposite sex will cause hurt and pain to the ones you love?
To me that is saying my needs are more important than theirs.
The wedding vows are a commitment to remain with each other for life. In addition they are a promise to care for each other in sickness and in health. You wouldn't leave your wife or care for her any less if she developed cancer. You are now facing a difficult problem that causes you a great deal of pain and discomfort. For years you have attempted to suppress it but it now needs some form of treatment. Will your wife abandon you in your time of need? That's a question that remains to be answered. The fact that she helped you with a dress shows that she has been willing to help you when you are in need.
On thing that comes out of treatment is that we become much nicer and more attentive people to be around. Your wife will be trading a very unhappy partner for one who is much more pleasant to be around. I hope that she find the exchange more than worth it.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 11:00:26 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if becoming the opposite sex will cause hurt and pain to the ones you love?
There is no basis for morality, except that it makes us happy.
Maybe you value your morality so much you can't take large steps now, but I'm sure there are small ones you can take that even the most stringent morality would allow. Also, by the way you describe your wife, I think she would be happier if you took them.
Dena and autumn08, you are both being very nice and I really appreciate your feedback.
Because I have so much trouble dealing with this, it makes it very difficult for me to have a grown up adult conversation with my wife without me ending up almost hysterical and crying like a child, which in turn causes my wife to get very upset at seeing me that way. That right there should be enough reason for me to change my attitude, but it is a slow process. Teaching old dog new tricks kind of thing.
I wrote down a bunch of things relating to transitioning in the form of a questionnaire. The questions range from full transition including surgery right down to doing nothing. I wrote down everything I could think of. I made 2 copies, one for me and one for my wife and asked her to select YES, NO or NOT SURE to each question stating if she is comfortable with me taking that particular step. I asked her to answer as honestly as she can and we are going to give each other our completed questions tonight. It might seem like a strange way to go about this, but I am finding it too hard to face who I am.
I feel bad that I have put my wife in a position where she has to answer questions like this. It is certainly not lost on me how difficult this is for the partner of a trans person, and being the trans person that has put my wife in this position is very hard to make peace with.
Jayne
The process isn't easy and I suspect the love of your wife is making it even harder. I had a conversation much like this in PM where a person reached the point of crying beyond control upon reaching the point where some form of treatment was required. Because the person had been a cross dresser for years, the wife understood and is willing to go pretty far in the treatment. You are a different person and you have found a way you can handle it. The only right answer is the one that works.
This is a bit like facing a surgery for a chronic condition. Yes the surgery is going to be painful but you will be better after the surgery instead of continuing to live with the chronic condition.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 11:49:57 PM
I wrote down a bunch of things relating to transitioning in the form of a questionnaire. The questions range from full transition including surgery right down to doing nothing. I wrote down everything I could think of. I made 2 copies, one for me and one for my wife and asked her to select YES, NO or NOT SURE to each question stating if she is comfortable with me taking that particular step. I asked her to answer as honestly as she can and we are going to give each other our completed questions tonight. It might seem like a strange way to go about this, but I am finding it too hard to face who I am.
Don't consider doing nothing. You can at least buy an expensive razor, change your diet, remove some body hair, wear gender neutral clothing, etc... Afterwards, reassess your situation and see if you're content, or if you would like to take further steps.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 11:49:57 PM
I feel bad that I have put my wife in a position where she has to answer questions like this. It is certainly not lost on me how difficult this is for the partner of a trans person, and being the trans person that has put my wife in this position is very hard to make peace with.
There is no reason to feel bad. We don't choose who we are.
I know I shouldn't feel bad and I'm not trans by choice. It is something I'm working on. My wife and all my therapists (I seem to be collecting therapists!) continually tell me not to be so hard on myself. I have become so good at criticising myself that it is now almost natural instinct. I am working on fixing that.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 11:01:25 PM
To me that is saying my needs are more important than theirs.
You can't properly take care of others if you don't first take care of yourself. Your unmet needs will constantly get in the way of their needs in ways you won't even realize. It took me a long time to accept that.
Quote from: jayne01 on March 26, 2016, 11:01:25 PM
To me that is saying my needs are more important than theirs.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. I struggled a lot with this myself, and hurting family is one of the reasons I refused to acknowledge my own needs for so very long. It took me a long while to realize that yes, I am a person with intrinsic value, that my needs matter, that my opinion matters, that I have the agency to do what's right for me, that I am the driver in my life, and not the passenger. It didn't come easy, but I got there eventually. The following quote helped me come to terms with this, and I hope it can provide some small comfort to you as well:
"Most of my life has been spent trying to shrink myself. Trying to become smaller. Quieter. Less sensitive. Less opinionated. Less needy. Less me. Because I didn't want to be a burden. I didn't want to be too much or push people away. I wanted people to like me. I wanted to be cared for and valued. I wanted to be wanted. So for years, I sacrificed myself for the sake of making other people happy. And for years, I suffered. But I'm tired of suffering, and I'm done shrinking. It's not my job to change who I am in order to become someone else's idea of a worthwhile human being. I am worthwhile. Not because other people think I am, but because I exist, and therefore I matter. My thoughts matter. My feelings matter. My voice matters. And with or without anyone's permission or approval, I will continue to be who I am and speak my truth. Even if it makes people angry. Even if it makes them uncomfortable. Even if they choose to leave. I refuse to shrink. I choose to take up space. I choose to honor my feelings. I choose to give myself permission to get my needs met. I choose to make self-care a priority. I choose me." — Daniell Koepke
For me, as an older transitioner, when the excrement hit the air-hander once again in my life, after much soul searching I came to realize how I was NOT handling being TG was the likely root-cause. I never really had any doubts from an early age that I had gender issues. Over time I also had little doubt I could make it in the world as an out TS. Since my dysphoria was never so overwhelming I could not otherwise function I "Settled" on being a CD. My own internalized transphobia, growing up in the late 50's early 60's was not a tolerant environment at all for anyone or anything out of the 'Norm'. I needed to adapt, bury, denial, hate myself for being different, eat too much, drink too much, risky behaviours, etc.. But I managed.
Part of that management were my CD escapes. A constant in my life. In times when things going mostly OK, perhaps monthly. Not so well, more often. Totally horrible, total denial. Mostly due to guilt. Totally horrible began years after a Me became an US. I needed to balance many conflicting needs and wants. As free time became scarce it was easy to justify stopping such a frivolous indulgence like a Sunday afternoon of dressing. Especially when it sure didn't thrill my wife who has always been supportive, to a point.
It is now seven years after dropping the T-Bomb on her. I still have no clear, absolute, idea where I stand in the spectrum. Most of the time I am not at the "I need to transition" point. Well... TBH- I have transitioned Big Time.
Transitioning started for me when I finally decided to DO Something, anything different about being this 'oddity' that I am. Forty years of suppression by various means and some denial sure wasn't working for me. Being an imperialist, I don't dive almost totally unknowingly into the deep end hoping for a miracle. I made a little tweak, and quantify the results, Good/Bad.
For the most part the tweaks have all been good. OK, the wife thing could be better. She isn't thrilled about some bumpier aspects, yet is a LOT more appreciative of all the other positive changes in me.
Just as in the banner at the top of the page, I literally am trying to stay balanced on the knife edge between two genders. Fear, some Guilt, and (fear) internalized transphobia are factors. Having and maintaining good portions of my current life situation is a major factor. My wife is a lot more... accepting today then 7 years go. A lot more thinking in terms of us staying together as a couple if/when the day comes I need to transition.
I achieved my life long long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Albeit in somewhat protective, almost real life, settings. I also have a fairly impressive "male" existence. Am I Gender-Fluid, Bi-Gender, or whatever number of things? Or, am I am what I am? Today. Far different then the person I was a decade ago. Likely different today then the person I may grow to become in my remaining years on this rock.
No person in their right mind WANTS to be Trans-Gender. I've come to the realization that I am. Like balding since 14 there is nothing I can do about either. I've never done the 'Comb-Over'. These days I don't suppress or deny that I am TG. Where I am on the spectrum, today, is where I am today.
Perhaps having a birth name of John in an age when every third male was named John gave me the ability to filter out names. Just as I tried to filter out a host of other names I was called growing up. Humans like to give things names. There are some 50 Eskimo words for something we simply call Snow. TG works fine for me, it covers any and all that I may be, gender wise.