To me, the worst part about not being able to transition is that I look EXTREMELY feminine. Some trans guys can pass as non-binary when they cut their hair short, but apparently, it just makes me a more attractive female. Which I HATE! I've made my peace with not being able to transition, and I'm pretty secure in my masculinity. But there is nothing more humiliating for a transgender non-binary dude, nothing more demasculinizing, than being stared at like a piece of meat by a cis guy who sees me as a girl. I have never been so reminded that I'm not physically male than in that moment. Sure, I've been checked out before, but not like this. When he saw that he made me uncomfortable, he laughed and kept giving me that look.
How do you deal with this? How, in the midst of being seen as a girl, do you keep your chin up? I can bind my chest, I can have the male silhouette, but my stupid female face gives me away every single time. I don't mind my femininity. But that was probably one of the most humiliating, uncomfortable things I have ever gone through.
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
To me, the worst part about not being able to transition is that I look EXTREMELY feminine.
Sorry, I might have missed a post somewhere else. Why can't you transition?
I've had these experiences but I don't think I can offer much advice. I just avoid social situations as much as possible. What helps is wearing clothes that I feel comfortable and attractive in. I also spend quite a bit of time on styling my hair as that's really the only thing I can control and it's one of the things which give people a clue as to what my gender is when they first meet me.
Disclaimer: The following advice may flawed, ill though out, insensitive, etc, but it comes from a good place. I just want be direct and not mince words.
x
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
To me, the worst part about not being able to transition is that I look EXTREMELY feminine.
I don't know why you can't transition, is it because you're non-binary or is there another reason?
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
I'm pretty secure in my masculinity.
...
But there is nothing more humiliating for a transgender non-binary dude, nothing more demasculinizing, than being stared at like a piece of meat by a cis guy who sees me as a girl.
The thing about being a guy is that there are always times when a more alpha guy will make you feel like less of one. I grew up with two older brothers and they've never seen me as anything but a passive younger brother. It took some major butting of heads once I got older for them to realise that I wouldn't back down in an argument regardless of what they thought the established pecking order is and since then they've learned to tread carefully around me because they are wary of the outcome...but they still slip back in to their pre-assigned roles from time to time. So it happens to all of us.
Anyway, I digress, but what would an average cis-guy have done in that situation? Stared back. Confronted the guy. Get in his face. Now I'm not suggesting that that kind of behaviour is the way forward, I'm generally quite the pacifist, but most guys would react with some major attitude. Oh, and part of being a guy is having a really thick skin.
That said, how some random guy sees you, shouldn't and doesn't define you. He's just a dick who puts his own gratification above the comfort of others. I've never understood those kinds of guys. They're just wankers that should be ignored. Next time, look at him like you're going to cut him up in to pieces.
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
How do you deal with this? How, in the midst of being seen as a girl, do you keep your chin up?
People will always see you through their own view of the world. We all do it because we're busy thinking about ourselves not everyone else. The only thing you can do is be resilient and if you're feel like you need to shatter his view somehow, then do that. Pick your nose. Spit. Do anything that will snap that other person out of their trance. Obviously, try to be respectful to the general public in your effort to deal with people like this. Of course, by far the best approach is to not let what other people think of you affect you. Their opinions don't matter, only yours does.
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
I don't mind my femininity. But that was probably one of the most humiliating, uncomfortable things I have ever gone through.
BTW, I've been hit on by my fair share of guys despite not being gay myself. Most of the time I take it as a compliment and with a smirk, but frankly, pushy guys get the same treatment as pushy girls. Eye daggers. A drop dead look and some wording that says "sorry you're not my type", but the subtext leaves them in no doubt that I really mean "get the ->-bleeped-<- out of my face".
The world of guys is a fairly harsh one. You need to be equally harsh to cope...which is something I really dislike as I'm very good at coming across a bit psycho. That's why I'm going femme, so that I can embrace my more pleasant character traits and avoid the harsh ones!
I hope some of that helps.
Kaz|Orielle
x
I'm also wondering why you can't transition?
And what do you mean you don't mind your femininity? It sounds like you do.
Being subjected to cis mens' desire is a tough one for me too but I've made the decision to transition. I also started receiving a lot less male attention when I started acting more like a guy and dressing in mens clothes and binding. Still, it's unavoidable but now when it happens I just kind of chuckle a bit at the guy and give him a look like "if only you knew". I've also told guys to ->-bleeped-<- off etc but it's really important to recognize when it's safe to do that and err on the side of caution. I would never recommend doing that if you're alone and have no path to escape a possible violent situation...
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 31, 2016, 11:51:51 AM
Sorry, I might have missed a post somewhere else. Why can't you transition?
I'm religious and decided not to.
Quote from: freebrady2015 on March 31, 2016, 01:03:46 PM
I'm also wondering why you can't transition?
And what do you mean you don't mind your femininity? It sounds like you do.
Being subjected to cis mens' desire is a tough one for me too but I've made the decision to transition. I also started receiving a lot less male attention when I started acting more like a guy and dressing in mens clothes and binding. Still, it's unavoidable but now when it happens I just kind of chuckle a bit at the guy and give him a look like "if only you knew". I've also told guys to <not allowed> off etc but it's really important to recognize when it's safe to do that and err on the side of caution. I would never recommend doing that if you're alone and have no path to escape a possible violent situation...
I don't mind my feminine traits and personality. I very much mind being female.
Quote from: Kazamatix on March 31, 2016, 12:39:49 PM
Disclaimer: The following advice may flawed, ill though out, insensitive, etc, but it comes from a good place. I just want be direct and not mince words.
x
I don't know why you can't transition, is it because you're non-binary or is there another reason?
The thing about being a guy is that there are always times when a more alpha guy will make you feel like less of one. I grew up with two older brothers and they've never seen me as anything but a passive younger brother. It took some major butting of heads once I got older for them to realise that I wouldn't back down in an argument regardless of what they thought the established pecking order is and since then they've learned to tread carefully around me because they are wary of the outcome...but they still slip back in to their pre-assigned roles from time to time. So it happens to all of us.
Anyway, I digress, but what would an average cis-guy have done in that situation? Stared back. Confronted the guy. Get in his face. Now I'm not suggesting that that kind of behaviour is the way forward, I'm generally quite the pacifist, but most guys would react with some major attitude. Oh, and part of being a guy is having a really thick skin.
That said, how some random guy sees you, shouldn't and doesn't define you. He's just a dick who puts his own gratification above the comfort of others. I've never understood those kinds of guys. They're just wankers that should be ignored. Next time, look at him like you're going to cut him up in to pieces.
People will always see you through their own view of the world. We all do it because we're busy thinking about ourselves not everyone else. The only thing you can do is be resilient and if you're feel like you need to shatter his view somehow, then do that. Pick your nose. Spit. Do anything that will snap that other person out of their trance. Obviously, try to be respectful to the general public in your effort to deal with people like this. Of course, by far the best approach is to not let what other people think of you affect you. Their opinions don't matter, only yours does.
BTW, I've been hit on by my fair share of guys despite not being gay myself. Most of the time I take it as a compliment and with a smirk, but frankly, pushy guys get the same treatment as pushy girls. Eye daggers. A drop dead look and some wording that says "sorry you're not my type", but the subtext leaves them in no doubt that I really mean "get the <not allowed> out of my face".
The world of guys is a fairly harsh one. You need to be equally harsh to cope...which is something I really dislike as I'm very good at coming across a bit psycho. That's why I'm going femme, so that I can embrace my more pleasant character traits and avoid the harsh ones!
I hope some of that helps.
Kaz|Orielle
x
This did help, thanks. I'm not very aggressive unless I have to be. I've been pretty sheltered, so the thick skin I used to have is pretty much gone. I don't know how to be aggressive anymore which stinks. I do feel better about the situation though.
I'd just add, the term is "emasculating" in this context.
And the best response is one that's not allowed in our "polite" society.
This boy wanted to anger you, to hurt you, and was both enabled and allowed to succeed by the society that has decided violence is WRONG - unless a state-sanctioned agent does it, and then summary execution is fine.
Appropriate response to aggression is more aggression, and escalation. You described the bully, shouting in your face, "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!"
I sympathize.
Been there, done that, the damage was hidden, though...
At least it didn't become physical. You might want to consider a gym membership, though, or some boxing or krav maga classes. Part of the defense is being too secure to even notice this. And the next part is being able to back it up with violence, which is why I suggest boxing first (so you've been hit before and know how to deal) - and Krav second, because it's a pretty nasty set of responses. It sucks, but the world we live in is enabling the bullies... Better be able to face them on their own terms.
And people likely wonder why I'd say, be ready to go physical, but also at least it didn't go physical? 1. Be ready, being capable, knowing you're capable, will diffuse a lot of situations. Most guys don't want to find out - so bullies and idiots might still step, but since you know they'll fall back, it won't phase you much, if at all. E.G., drunk at a Ren faire, pulls a blade... Next thing he knows, his sword is on the ground, and a dagger against his neck, and he's REAL sober, REAL fast, and his friends are unwilling or incapable of responding. Police can show up, you'll be fine - you didn't injure him, you just defended yourself. (Note, this is outside the faire, because the idiots demand everything be peace-tied. What happens if he unties it and acts that way inside the grounds...? )
Second, in a physical fight, it can still go either way, which is why you generally want to avoid the fight if possible. Especially if you're smaller, you can't absorb the damage as well. But knowing how to fight is very different from most guys, who "know how to fight." It'll take a while, but bring lots of benefits; next thing you know, it's a decade later, and no one would DARE pick a fight - you just give off that aura of, "I can handle myself, you will need friends..." Most guys think fighting comes naturally, but you can poke around a bit and you'll find it's not true. Basic stuff, like "White Collar Brawlers" - TV show where two office guys would settle a dispute in the boxing ring. It's all fun and games until that first punch... Then the world changes.
Imagine knowing how to deal with kicks, throws, joint locks, PLUS knowing how to keep your head if hit. How to control distance and angles so you can deal with multiple attackers. You'll be different from about the third lesson, and if you're working hard physically, or in the gym, as well - you're building character, building strength, and embracing the suck, and that WILL make you stick out in a "masculine" way - making other guys not want to fight you.
Think of the issue in different terms. A 6 foot, 300# bodybuilder doesn't have to prove anything to a 5'2" 120# loudmouth. How drunk does the 5'2" guy have to be to step to the 6' tall dude? It's the chihuahua looking up at the Great Dane...
You can choose which one to be, to some extent.
Little Chihuahua will only step to bigger chihuahua. THEN he's got something to prove. But to a shepherd or a rottweiler? They've got nothing to prove, and if the chihuahua steps, they'll just bite him.
You were seen as a competitor by this person. As someone close in status, close enough to challenge them - so they had to make you feel smaller.
And you allowed it...
So - Get thee to a gym! Or a boxing ring. ;)
-Dianna
Like most transgender females who would like to be more communal, would you like to do the opposite and engage more in climbing the male hierarchy? If so, then like Orielle described, males are in a constant struggle to define their position. When their positions are established there is a temporary detente, but soon the struggle resumes.
In order to establish my own position in the male hierarchy, I found it helpful to observe dogs. If a dog is to become alpha male, he must defeat the other dogs and if he becomes alpha male, to retain his position, he regularly bites the ears of the other dogs, makes displays of strength and defeats challengers.
As an adult male, I don't need to physically fight very often, but I'm constantly establishing my dominance in conversations, and like the alpha male dog that bites the ears of other dogs, I'm constantly infusing my remarks with subtle insults. There is a side of me that enjoys this game, but it exists because I want to establish the conditions of the detente, not because I enjoy feeling like man.
When a guy is hitting on you, maybe you can reframe the situation and view it as you partaking in the male ecosystem. Maybe if you strive to make him your inferior, your male side will experience a thrill.
I've had a few unpleasant (hands on) come-ons from men and I deal with it with the average Rottweiler's tact.
If you're not into physical confrontations, try the old "I'll kill you if you touch me" glare. It's the most basic human repellent and should put off all but the worst offenders who are perceiving you as a woman.
As a man doing this can be an invitation to escalate/fight, but if they perceive you female it isn't, and a fight isn't nearly so likely to ensue if they view you as one.
Quote from: AcesAlex on March 31, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
How do you deal with this? How, in the midst of being seen as a girl, do you keep your chin up?
I don't value their opinions or observations as highly as my own. They have nothing that I want or care about. Therefore, they have no power over me.