Ian McEwan criticised by campaigners over transgender remarks
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/02/ian-mcewan-criticised-over-transgender-remarks
The Guardian/Chris Johnston Saturday 2 April 2016 12.56 EDT
"Campaigners have criticised author Ian McEwan for comments that appeared to question the right of transgender people to choose their gender.
In a speech to the Royal Institution, the Booker prize-winning writer asked whether factors such as biology and social norms limited our ability to adopt a different gender."
I'm finding it very difficult working out what he meant.
Always amazes me how people with such creative talents could have such an inability to imagine how hateful their words are. Ann LaMott said something similar. It's high profile people like him that drive our suicide rates into the stratosphere.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 02, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
I'm finding it very difficult working out what he meant.
I'm not. He's saying I'm a man.
If that's what he's saying then he's got a very complicated way of saying it. To me everything he said can be understood in multiple ways.
I've never cared much for his fiction, anyway. Overrated, if you ask me.
He is not as clever as he thinks he is. Strange, his books are written like essays - he clearly does his research on everything else. It never fails to amaze me that every cis person is born with an innate knowledge of biology, genetics and psychology and it still took until the 1950s for them to sequence DNA
Lots of well known people have made the odd wrong remark about being trans and I'm sure most don't realise how wrong their words are. I don't think we should get up in arms about every misguided comment; what good would that do us. Then again you'd think a gay person would take time to do some research and become more knowledgeable; just like they've done with gay issues. But it seems they're either too old to learn something new; he's another cis person who thinks he knows better like Peep said or simply is so caught up in campaigning for gay rights that he hasn't put any thought or care for us. Same with Stephen Fry.
Quote from: Elis on April 02, 2016, 03:39:22 PM
I don't think we should get up in arms about every misguided comment; what good would that do us.
It's a denial of my identity. It is not a misguided comment. It is a hateful insult. The combined effect of this and millions of other similar insults are laws like the ones they're starting to pass all over the U.S.
What good would it do us to speak out against it? It would help educate those who are inadvertently abetting our oppression and call out the evil of those who are doing it on purpose.
Quote from: suzifrommd on April 02, 2016, 03:51:17 PM
It's a denial of my identity. It is not a misguided comment. It is a hateful insult. The combined effect of this and millions of other similar insults are laws like the ones they're starting to pass all over the U.S.
What good would it do us to speak out against it? It would help educate those who are inadvertently abetting our oppression and call out the evil of those who are doing it on purpose.
I understand your opinion. I hate when I hear people speak about trans people when they know nothing about them and what is happening in the US at the moment. But I'm sure most of these cis people don't mean it in a hateful way exactly; they simply don't think before they speak and are afraid of the unknown caused by the spread of trans propaganda. I didn't say we shouldn't educate people; I meant we should do less complaining and more educating.
Quote from: Elis on April 02, 2016, 04:05:28 PM
I meant we should do less complaining and more educating.
Good point.
The question is, why these people feel compelled to make any comment at all?
They are simply attacking for little purpose and demonstrating their own level in doing so.
Best ignored.
Quotebut I tend to think of people with penises as men
It makes a difference whether you have an X or Y chromosome."
Personally I don't spend a lot of time thinking about one and have never seen the other.
Just saying
Quote from: stephaniec on April 02, 2016, 01:28:50 PM
In a speech to the Royal Institution, the Booker prize-winning writer asked whether factors such as biology and social norms limited our ability to adopt a different gender."
Without reading anything more for the detail or context, I do have to say he's not wrong about that particular point. Our biology and social norms do make it difficult to adopt our identified gender. You only need to read the pain experienced by people on this forum who are in pre transition and during transition as they deal with their physicality and rejection to know it is a very real perceived limitation for many, many, many trans people. I guess the question then is how to address those issues instead of just saying "oh well, too bad you "can't" really change your gender so why do it"?
I just had a look to see he's said anything new on the topic, like apologizing or at least clarify, but nothing. There's been a lot of criticism, but no support for his statements.
Sir Ian McKellen had something to say about it
Sir Ian, 76, came out as gay in 1988. A co-founder of Stonewall, the gay-rights organisation, Sir Ian spoke out against people "who quote God" to attack homosexuality, even suggesting Jesus may have been gay.
He also attacked Ian McEwan over recent comments about transgender people. The author last week said: "Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to think of people with penises as men."
Sir Ian said: "I'm surprised at that comment from him ... Nobody goes on that painful journey for the fun of it."
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11616805
Good for Sir Ian on both counts -- for deciding he'd rather keep his private life private, and for taking Mr. McEwan to task.
I'm so glad Sir Ian didn't just agree with him, so many people can be so disappointing haha
I'm also wondering if cis men should be discussing who is and isn't allowed into womens' spaces at all. Also i noticed that he chucked in a throwaway comment about race too but doesn't seem to have expanded on it - "Of course sex and race are different, but they also have a biological basis." And...? Is he trying to talk about intersectional feminism or? What?
I don't like the way people discuss these subjects obliquely because they know in the end it won't affect them. In the sense of saying 'crazing things are happening... but oh well', and they go back to their own lives. If you don't really have a constructive opinion, stay in your lane
Novelist Ian McEwan climbs down amid transgender outcry: Author faces further criticism from some groups about his decision to backtrack
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3529255/Novelist-Ian-McEwan-climbs-amid-transgender-outcry-Author-faces-criticism-groups-decision-backtrack.html
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 08, 2016, 11:49:46 AM
Novelist Ian McEwan climbs down amid transgender outcry: Author faces further criticism from some groups about his decision to backtrack
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3529255/Novelist-Ian-McEwan-climbs-amid-transgender-outcry-Author-faces-criticism-groups-decision-backtrack.html
it's always amusing to see Christians claiming that someone ELSE is conducting a "witch-hunt"... and when the "witches" are men...
"how 'profoundly punishing the politics of identity can be'"
yes having to backtrack on an ill thought out comment you made is terrible in comparison to little things like being murdered or denied work, housing and medical care
"'The self, like a consumer desirable, may be plucked from the shelves of a personal identity supermarket, a ready-to-wear little black number." ... because anyone who isn't cis male and white is in possession of a ~personal identity~ whereas the ones who are white cis males, are just nice normal default humans
"'The fact is that biology does define reality and it's a shame that Mr McEwan has faced a witch-hunt for stating the obvious. Transgender people deserve exactly the same respect and kindness as others but what they cannot do is force others to endorse their views.'" they're not
views, they're the fundamental rights to our existence
Everyone has the right to voice an opinion, but that doesn't include entitlement to never be criticised or challenged. What people need to realise when they air views like this, is that the knock-on effects are that other human beings are abused and discriminated against, and that making careless statements like these give licence to more extreme views and actions. Trans people aren't just ~offended, we're afraid for our lives and livelihoods, and the more educated and well known people that don't think before they speak the more likely it is that violence and discrimination will continue
It's almost more offensive that he's claiming to support the trans community, even when he obviously spoke without any knowledge of the issues he's expressing an opinion on. You can't undermine us and then claim to support us.
"Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to think of people with penises as men,"
We're not making that assumption about you, pal! >:-)
Two quotations have been coming to mind a lot lately:
"Calling bigotry an opinion is like calling arsenic a flavor." (Jack Cameron)
"You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
He's published an open letter in response here
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/penis-comment-was-biologically-unexceptional
And there's an article about it
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/06/biology-not-always-destiny-says-ian-mcewan-after-transgender-row
As far as I can see his response isn't much of a backtrack. He just seemed to restate his position using other words - no enlightenment has occurred here. He is another person that that thinks that biology and chromosomes = gender identity. I wonder if he is aware of AIS conditions?
As far as the "witch hunt" statement - he is certainly entitled to his views and he is certainly entitled to express his views - no one is saying that he's not. What he is not entitled to is freedom from other people having and expressing their views about his views.
Express a view that is unpopular and you'll get plenty of reaction from people.