I'm wondering say I transition and I come out, can my company (technology company) let me go because my identified gender changed?
AND lets say I do get let go (fired). How hard will it be to be a non-passing woman (MTF) and trying to get a job another well paying desk job? I know this is speculative.
I'm thinking about worse case. If I were let go, should I have my future employment expectations set to possibly no longer work in my career? even be so hard to find a job that I end up taking what ever I can find?
Anyone else transitioned, been let go, and then had to start over? and how hard was it to find a new job in your career field?
I didn't actually have an issue when I did it, but I am in IT. I'm a govt contractor though, so there were extra protections in place. Of course the state I work in is also one where they can fire you without cause.
So I did my due diligence before saying a word. I located the company policy on EOE and found that gender identity was specifically in there, so I saved a copy. Then I went through all my performance reviews since the year I started and saved a copy of them too. I saved copies of all the awards and merit increases. The HR director was the first person I notified. After my legal name change, I told my boss, his boss, and the security officer.
I had a very real fear of being fired. All I really wanted to happen out of telling them was for them to change my name in their records so I would have work history to use at a future interview. Glad that didn't happen because while my face passes mostly with women and about 50% of the time with men, my voice does not and I have no idea what a woman would wear to an interview either.
I greatly respect our peers who transition on the job and make it work. Sure it can be a tough road. I was "out" on the job as queer since 1982 and that did impact my career, ultimately in a positive way. I then worked in a catholic hospital and they made it uncomfortable for me when accused of petty vandalism. It is true that after our public hospital was taken over by the good sisters of profit I did put paper doll clothes on the naked bleeding jesus they hung up in my operating room...he needed a few dressings OK ;) I was later accused of winking, gasp, at a surgeon--he wishes! I was carefully appropriate in bathrooms and our shared call rooms. In those days one could be fired for being gay or another spurious reason found to move us on and out the door. That part can still happen but less often now. Many of the largest corporate interests, many states, cities and countries are becoming inclusive and recognize the value of diversity. There are policies depending on where you are that may afford some protection.
As I aged I became more androgynous and maintained very long hair, feminine style jewelry and gay apparel ;D I tried a poorly informed transition in the 90s and humiliated myself at home before even getting to work. This is a long haul for some of us. So i moved on to institutions with greater respect and tolerance for minority people. That changed my life.
I began working with openly queer and other minority people, what fun! Really, people of color, religious minorities and other professionals had a difficult time at other places and we knew this was our opportunity to be the best team possible. I made lifelong friends, found community and slowly found my way out of my last closet.
Yes people can manage to transition on the job and yes it is worth it to be yourself every day.
I switched roles in 1979 and while I was preparing to do it, I was canned. Nothing I could prove as they had a massive layoff but it might have been a good opportunity to get me out the door, I am a computer programmer and have been though 4 programming jobs after that as Dena so employment after transition is possible.
My opinion is that the high tech industries are more accepting of differences as they are mostly interested in somebody who can do the job. While I haven't been job hunting in a long time, I think that people are more accepting today than they were when I transitioned.
I was not let go. I worked with my HR department for months to ensure things would go smooth, and they did. I researched my local laws and protections, and looked into the existing company policies. That way when I went to HR I could explain my concerns.
Being in California was really a large help for me because of the protections at the state level. Even if you are not in California, if the company is based in California, they often follow the California laws.
Being in high tech is a good place to transition from my experience.
The technical industry is full of queer people, especially on the coasts. When you sit in an office all day and bang out code or write technical documents no one really cares who you are - they just care that you show up every day and that the work gets done in a timely and professional manner.
I work as a programmer at a small IT shop in the L.A. area. When I transitioned it was eerily smooth - my first time on the job as my authentic self was in September of 2014 and I'm still here and still employed. I have had zero issues with my transition on the job.
I think your possibility of getting fired depends on the kind of work you do, the attitude of your current employer, the types of employers near you, the prevailing attitude in the state where you live, and the existence of equality laws in your state. Some states are going to be less accepting than others and some employers are going to be the same.
I've been "In Transition" for about 7 years now most of which included HRT. I am a pretty good engineer in niche esoteric area of the power electronics world. I've also had a stint in upper management as a VP.
The cold hard business reality is if you are more trouble then you're worth it's time for you to go. Only the most idiotic Pointy Hair Boss will say, much less put in writing, it's because you're trans. There will be legitimate business reasons for it and perhaps one or two others will also get the heave-ho.
I made the decision not to fully transition. A good 80% of who I see that I am is tied into my career. I've earned a great deal of respect from the factory floor on up to upper management. I am "The Hero". I had a stint living in the Seventh Circle of Hell working in the military industrial complex. THAT really drove home how important what I do is. I also have a semi-invalid wife and a mountain of other commitments. All of which I cannot put at risk at this point in my life.
Of course all the above assumes I have the option not to. Today I mostly do not "Need" to transition fully, just would like to if I lived in a perfect world. If Want changes to Need, well then my survival is predicated upon taking that risk, and prayer. Also a Plan B or Plan C, just in case my Worse Case scenario is correct
Thought this would be a good area to ask this since I worry the same way as the original poster, but how good is job security for those transitioning in California? I know California has the best laws for transgender women and men so I am thinking about moving there. I work in the medical profession. I just want to be ensured that I am judged on my abilities and not my sexual orientation and identity there. Heard the enclaves in SF and LA are very accommodating. So might have to move out of the company I work force and look for a position in a hospital or lab in SF. The company I work for has a lab in San Diego but I'd rather be in a good transgender community like SF. So I am curious about the possibility of not being hired or fired in California when it comes to transgender professionals or those undergoing transition. What are the conditions really like in California? It's looking like the best option for me. Where I'm at now has a 10/100 for transgender rights as I saw on Trans America's site. Also wanting to move there to avoid a larger chance of a hate crime. Wanting to be in a safer state.
Quote from: 0r3V0iD on April 07, 2016, 06:02:52 PM
Thought this would be a good area to ask this since I worry the same way as the original poster, but how good is job security for those transitioning in California? I know California has the best laws for transgender women and men so I am thinking about moving there. I work in the medical profession. I just want to be ensured that I am judged on my abilities and not my sexual orientation and identity there. Heard the enclaves in SF and LA are very accommodating. So might have to move out of the company I work force and look for a position in a hospital or lab in SF. The company I work for has a lab in San Diego but I'd rather be in a good transgender community like SF. So I am curious about the possibility of not being hired or fired in California when it comes to transgender professionals or those undergoing transition. What are the conditions really like in California? It's looking like the best option for me. Where I'm at now has a 10/100 for transgender rights as I saw on Trans America's site. Also wanting to move there to avoid a larger chance of a hate crime. Wanting to be in a safer state.
I live in a very conservative suburb of L.A. and to be honest most of the people I run into here don't seem to really care much about trans people. Oh sure there are the occasional point and laugh nitwits but they have caused no harm when I've been out with groups of my trans friends and we encounter them. People here are mostly chill about us.
As I said earlier I transitioned on the job so I really can't speak about what job hunting is like as a transgender person but I do believe that most prospective employers here will talk to you and probably won't judge you on anything but your suitability for the job.
The environment here seems pretty safe to me but there are certain areas that it's best to stay out of just like with any big city. I've never felt in any danger in my day to day life.
Once you get here you may not want to leave :)
I transitioned on the job two years ago. My company supported the transition and gave me FMLA for surgeries.
Having said that, I followed company policy on transition throughout. If I hadn't, there would have been problems.. It wasn't easy and wasn't streight forward.
Find out if your company has a policy in place. I had no clue..
Hugs
Jen
I was laid off twice in the Bay Area of California in the late eighties even though there was a non discrimination policy in the second of the two companies. But that was back then. Not now. Any of the metropolitan cities will treat you well once you are employed.
And there's the rub. You need to get hired. I think that many people consider their first impression of you, before you utter a word, as a significant part of how much they like you for the position. This depends on the type of position you are seeking, of course. I was in programming and IT. People showed up in sandals and tee shirts for interviews. So if you dress professionally, you've already got a step up on some. It depends on how esoteric the position is.
Try it in Texas :o
But I do work for a college, so might not have an issue.
I'm currently starting this. I live in Oregon, so if a manager so much as looks at me wrong, I go to the State. My clients? They are a different matter. Although so far living here has worked to my benefit in that most everyone just doesn't care. My colleagues are great. A few know. I told two when I began HRT as I was having panic attacks and was not familiar with them. My job is also seasonal so a lot of what I call the "uncanny valley" will happen during the off season. And the season will be over in a little over a week. (Guess what I do.)
My employment history has been spotty. I'm hoping my new self confidence will help in some way. It's the finding a new place to work still concerns me though.
I had this conversation with a good friend from one of my local TG groups when it became apparent that transition is a real possibility for me. She transitioned on the job and was called in a few weeks after her announcement and laid off "due to staff restructuring". She was offered a generous redundancy package and she took it because she didn't want a mark on her employment record and this was sadly an instance where you know you were let go for being transgender but you'd have a hard time proving it.
This was over a decade ago and things have moved forward, but I understand it's still a real possibility. However, life's too short. I will never be the one to work in a client facing role and in my preferred industry, people should primarily care about my ability to do my job. So if a company is funny about me transitioning on the job, I will never work for them, regardless of my stage of transition when I start (and I don't even plan on a "full" oe; contrary to what I've been told by many, it's not all-or-nothing and I don't have to go all the way if I don't want to).
And yes, I can afford to turn places down, even with my limited experience.
Quote from: Kimberley Beauregard on April 08, 2016, 07:55:20 AM
This was over a decade ago and things have moved forward, but I understand it's still a real possibility. However, life's too short. I will never be the one to work in a client facing role and in my preferred industry, people should primarily care about my ability to do my job. So if a company is funny about me transitioning on the job, I will never work for them, regardless of my stage of transition when I start (and I don't even plan on a "full" oe; contrary to what I've been told by many, it's not all-or-nothing and I don't have to go all the way if I don't want to).
And yes, I can afford to turn places down, even with my limited experience.
I admire your assertiveness and self respect in the employment realm. Good for you! Without challenges the status quo remains.
Thank you for the words and +1, you've made my evening! :)
And that's exactly it. I often hear, even from other TG folk, that it's just "how things are", but why should I be forced to tolerate it? It's not just an inconvenience or stuck-up HR departments being a pain in the ass, it concerns an important part of my identity and the last thing I want to do is represent a company who has no qualms about marginalising me and my people.
Hope this might help (USA only):
What You Should Know About EEOC and the Enforcement Protections for LGBT Workers
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/enforcement_protections_lgbt_workers.cfm (https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/enforcement_protections_lgbt_workers.cfm)
Overview
EEOC interprets and enforces Title VII's prohibition of sex discrimination as forbidding any employment discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation. These protections apply regardless of any contrary state or local laws.
Through investigation, conciliation, and litigation of charges by individuals against private sector employers, as well as hearings and appeals for federal sector workers, the Commission has taken the position that existing sex discrimination provisions in Title VII protect lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) applicants and employees against employment bias. The Commission has obtained approximately $6.4 million in monetary relief for individuals, as well as numerous employer policy changes, in voluntary resolutions of LGBT discrimination charges under Title VII since data collection began in 2013. A growing number of court decisions have endorsed the Commission's interpretation of Title VII.
The information provided below highlights what you should know about EEOC's outreach and enforcement in this area.
Examples of LGBT-Related Sex Discrimination Claims
Some examples of LGBT-related claims that EEOC views as unlawful sex discrimination include:
-Failing to hire an applicant because she is a transgender woman.
-Firing an employee because he is planning or has made a gender transition.
-Denying an employee equal access to a common restroom corresponding to the employee's gender identity.
-Harassing an employee because of a gender transition, such as by intentionally and persistently failing to use the name and gender pronoun that correspond to the gender identity with which the employee identifies, and which the employee has communicated to management and employees.
-Denying an employee a promotion because he is gay or straight.
-Discriminating in terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, such as providing a lower salary to an employee because of sexual orientation, or denying spousal health insurance benefits to a female employee because her legal spouse is a woman, while providing spousal health insurance to a male employee whose legal spouse is a woman.
-Harassing an employee because of his or her sexual orientation, for example, by derogatory terms, sexually oriented comments, or disparaging remarks for associating with a person of the same or opposite sex.
-Discriminating against or harassing an employee because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity, in combination with another unlawful reason, for example, on the basis of transgender status and race, or sexual orientation and disability.
See How to File a Charge of Employment Discrimination for information about filing a Title VII charge of sex discrimination in employment related to gender identity or sexual orientation bias. There is a different complaint process for federal employees.