It seems to me there is a lot of rejection of Jesus because people see the evil of what others have done to Christ's teachings. Christ teachings are pure and simple and blatantly obvious by the words of the new testament. All Jesus does is speak of love and God yet people who see evil in the established religions that have misinterpreted Christ's words to suite their own purpose can't seem to separate Jesus from the misuse and end up blaming Christ and rejecting him for someone else's abuse and twisted logic.
Speaking for myself, if Jesus is indeed God, the triune God, then it is his words in the Old Testament also. He said them and he owns them.
We cannot simply say that he changed his mind.
HEB 13:8, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
If those words of the Old Testament are not his then he is not God.
QuoteI am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.
CS Lewis in "Mere Christianity", Bk 2, Ch 3.
Sapere Aude
"ascended into heaven and is seated at right hand of God" I was taught that that God worked through Jesus. But once he ascended it became complete, that Jesus is the embodiment of God.
I have no inclination to argue the point all I'll say is that Christ is the law and his words are the only thing that in my opinion need to be thought of. Christ came to redeem and bring the news of the resurrection. Christ brought the freedom from death and the love of God for human kind. In my humble opinion even through I'm extremely biased for my love of Jesus , Christ's blood sacrifice to bridge the love of the Father to the human race is what is important not the interpretation of others of what is meant from the words not uttered by the one who makes the law. As I said I have no intention to argue and this is only my belief so I have no more to say , but I like to hear what others reason for the rejection of Christ's words.
Quote from: Marlee on April 16, 2016, 09:28:27 AM
"ascended into heaven and is seated at right hand of God" I was taught that that God worked through Jesus. But once he ascended it became complete, that Jesus is the embodiment of God.
That is not orthodox Christianity.
The Nicene Creed states that he is one substance with the Father. One substance at that time derived from a Greek philosophical concept that essentially means they are both part of the triune God that was not created but rather has existed for eternity.
Many priests enjoy a "holier-than-thou" perspective. They're more religious than you, more righteous than you, closer to god, and know the bible better than you. If they're bigots, then that bigotry must be righteous; and there's an old testament passage to support any kind of awful hatred you please. They'd rather dust off that retired portion of the bible than confront the fact that they are living a life of hatred.
See, that's a problem. The Old Testament is not retired. As much as people wish it were it isn't. Even Jesus says it is not retired.
MATT 5:17-18, 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Law or the Prophets refers to the Old Testament Books.
Sapere Aude
The so called o.t. is actually the bible, the new testament is letters and testimony to the fact that the redeemed came to redeem Israel from the curse of the Torah. The curse comes about when you break the eternal elohyms Torah. Yehoshua came to teach the Torah correctly,go read psalm 119 and you will see Yehuahs Torah is a love letter to Israel and the nations. Preachers learned yrs ago with me they find they have no real clue to what the bible actually has to say.
Oh. That's what I'm told any time I go all Exodus 31:14 on somebody.
It is no different then the established religious authorities of that time. Pharisees as white washed tombs said a lot. They looked great, looked Godly, but they were full of death. People have been continually making God in our image since the beginning of time and we haven't learned the folly in that yet. We are really slow learners at times.
Quote from: stephaniec on April 16, 2016, 08:26:02 AM
It seems to me there is a lot of rejection of Jesus because people see the evil of what others have done to Christ's teachings. Christ teachings are pure and simple and blatantly obvious by the words of the new testament. All Jesus does is speak of love and God yet people who see evil in the established religions that have misinterpreted Christ's words to suite their own purpose can't seem to separate Jesus from the misuse and end up blaming Christ and rejecting him for someone else's abuse and twisted logic.
Steph
Could not say it better myself. Having grown up in a evangelical leaning house. Both Grandparents ordained reverends. Grand pa got his from Biola and Grandma got her's in the mail. They, especially Grandma taught me a lot of hate that I had to disprove and disavow. It's been pretty much a lifetime calling to point out the heresy of the Book they claim to love and their hatred. .
Maybe part of it is that the NT is put together in the same book as the OT and the OT certainly has some horrific descriptions and ideas in it. It may be difficult for a non-Christian to see the better-sounding parts as equally or more important than the nastier-sounding parts.
Personally I always thought Jesus' general message was fine and admirable. I would much rather follow Christ than the violent deity of the OT. But that's the thing, they're tied together and some would say the same thing. And if they are the same thing, I would not follow it.
We are talking about a book being translated over three languages. With literal interpretations I'd be very careful.
Why is it that people need to have a saviour outside of themselves ?
Ideals and helpful figures are another thing ...
And why cannot people feel they are part of god, like other people are ?
Imo a lot is about control.
If people start to listen to what they feel within they do not need an outside source (which can manipulate).
This should be the content of teachings imo.
And to see many things as allegory and not literally.
*hugs*
That's kind of my issue with religions in general. We cherry pick.
If the book has been in three languages or more, which is the right interpretation then? People will still say the original is "open to interpretation" as well, like they do with the Koran that's only ever been in Arabic...
If God is inside you and you don't need the book, then what's the point of calling yourself a followed of any particular religion? Why not just make up your own version of God? You may as well dispense with the trappings if you no longer need the book...?
When people make up their own versions of what a religion means we get all kinds of offshoots to a religion that really do cherry pick stuff they want, and sometimes they totally miss the point and become awful, like the WBCs. And a few other religious groups I could mention. Then again I think if people took the Bible literally too we'd have people being stoned and kept as slaves still for mixing fabrics or eating shellfish?
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on April 21, 2016, 06:24:25 PM
Why not just make up your own version of God?
That's what I've done in my religion of one. Is my God real? As real as any of the others at least! And mine has never genocided an entire planet!!!!!!!!
I think even those who do not seek him because they see evil done in the name of Christ will still have refuge if they have good intentions. Those people that misuse the name of our beloved Jesus Christ may think they're doing right, and be ignorant of the problems of others, but still have good intentions in their heart. I know Jesus can see the intentions in our minds and hearts. I also know that when people doubt my faith because I am transexual, etc. that God sees me for all that I am and knows of my innocence. I suggest you worry about your own soul and salvation- help who you can without getting used. Be joyous, thankful and pray. I even pray for my enemies. :angel:
Quote from: Deborah on April 16, 2016, 09:17:56 AM
Speaking for myself, if Jesus is indeed God, the triune God, then it is his words in the Old Testament also. He said them and he owns them.
We cannot simply say that he changed his mind.
HEB 13:8, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
If those words of the Old Testament are not his then he is not God.
Sapere Aude
there is nothing wrong at all with saying Jesus owns the words of the bible. the biblle is the contract between God and man. The contract to believe in the Lord and have faith and you shall not want.Jesus is the fulfilment of the promise to bring eternal life. The Old Testament told of Christs appearance , the great light and teacher who will come forth. My beloved Lord is that light which he so willing shed for our sins ( the blindness of not knowing the love of God). People can nit pick the words that were an interpretation of Gods spirit writen through the hands of man, but the point is the contract of life and love between God and man and the fulfillment of that contact through the love and life of my beloved Lord. People can deny Gods love if they want because we have absolute free will.
the old testament is full of void and outdated laws. normal people don't sell their daughters. most of us eat bacon etc...
as far as i am concerned the old testament should be removed. Some Christians have perpetrated horrible crimes. Most have not.
i heard rumors that someone trans went into a trance and told a priest off after decimating his viewpoints. the priest started the conversation damning the individual. this came from a lot of sane people who i trust. I would love to meet this person. <3
This is Jesus.
Joshua 5:13-15 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
And this is what Jesus said to do.
Numbers 25:4-9. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor. And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
This is neither mercy nor unconditional love. This is in fact immoral.
Quote from: ChasingAlice on June 04, 2016, 12:17:33 PM
the old testament is full of void and outdated laws. normal people don't sell their daughters. most of us eat bacon etc...
Jesus said,
MATT 5:17- 18. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Law is the first five books of the Old Testament.
The Prophets is most, but not all, of the rest of the Old Testament.
Sapere Aude
first for one thing Jesus is the Law, the maker of Law. The words from the Old Testament is through man's interpretation of the spirit of God to build a bridge to God to create a covenant
between God and man. Jesus is the real deal , there is no interpretation , the words are Jesus. If Jesus is saying love thy father as thyself there is no ambiguity here. Love each each and everyone as yourself , no ambiguity. Take the words of the New Testament because those are the words that make the law. As far as changing law Jesus explained to the priests that the Sabbath is holy , but who would leave a calf to die if it needed help. What sense would it make for Jesus to be arguing or even to be crucified through the provocation of the Jewish Priests if he spoke of their interpretation of the law or even of the Old Testaments interpretation which was their interpretation of the Old Testament.. He wouldn't as well they the priests would of had no problem with either's teaching which obviously was not the case.
Quote from: stephaniec on June 04, 2016, 01:30:15 PM
first for one thing Jesus is the Law, the maker of Law. The words from the Old Testament is through man's interpretation of the spirit of God to build a bridge to God to create a covenant
between God and man. Jesus is the real deal , there is no interpretation , the words are Jesus.
I am not attacking your faith. I am explaining why my faith is gone. So,
If you mean the Old Testament is simply the uninspired writings of men and therefore not a reliable witness of God then I agree.
The words of Jesus were written by anonymous authors not earlier than 40 years after he died. Other than that there is exactly zero primary source material that Jesus even existed, much less spoke those words.
The earliest writings were Paul's which contain no words of Jesus at all but rather convey Paul's theology.
The Bible I used to believe says, in Jesus' words,
Mark 11:24. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Plenty of us here have prayed for decades to be healed. Exactly
zero of those prayers was ever answered. So, either these are in fact not God's words, or they are God's words and are untrue. Either way, if these words of God are untrue then what possible reason is there to believe, absent any primary sources, that any of the rest of it is a reliable witness and not just the writings of 1st Century religious zealots looking to expand their following? Especially what possible reason is there to believe when this living God, after being written about decades after his ascension by anonymous authors, hasn't made a single appearance to anyone else in 2000 years?
Yes, I am angry at myself for ever putting any faith at all in the empty words recorded in the New Testament. And I am angry that we are continually called mentally ill deviants by "Bible believing Christians".
But if you can find comfort in it then I'm happy for you. All I find in it for myself anymore is betrayal and empty promises.
Sapere Aude
Stephanie, I understand what you are asking. I taught gospel doctrine for many years. The inconsistencies in the holy writ drove me nuts and eventually convinced me to seek another path.
However, with that said, I don't think what you are observing is a result of people studying the Bible. In our current society people spout a lot of hatred and justify it by quoting from the Bible. The verse and meaning have little weight with those who have not studied or care to read the scriptures. They see living examples and don't like what they see.
Those of us who are on the fringes of society (specifically us trans folk here but it applies to other minorities) view church and political leaders preach hatred and motivate their followers to violent action. At the minimum they are quite successful in marginalizing us. What we see in response is a backlash against organized religion and these leaders. By extension, many who are driven away will apply the actions they see to Jesus.
"By their acts ye shall know them." Please don't ask me to look it up... but it does apply here. People don't like the taste and therefore they will not drink (me).
The second issue I see which gets little attention is that religion seems to be intractable and can not change with the times. I believe that many people see complete denial of some aspects of scientific endeavor yet readily suck up others. "Thank God for saving his life" comes to mind while not giving due credit to the surgeon, for example. Here again, the observer shakes his/her head in wonderment at the denial of simple and obvious fact that a doctor, a student of science has been the primary instrument in saving a life. Climate change denial is a huge motivator for those who disagree with the religious movement. Again, by extension, this gets laid squarely in Jesus' lap. There are many other commonplace things that people can see. They have personal evidence which drives them away.
Thirdly, we instinctively understand that religion had basic functions in the beginning. It was used to govern and to attempt to explain our existence. We now have a government sort of ruled by the people in most countries around the world so we have no need for the governance part of the holy texts. The explanation of our being in the scriptures is also being explained away by scientific discovery. The facts of science are in direct contradiction to the simplistic descriptions of the Bible. I think by now, most people know where the rain comes from. Again, by extension, Jesus is the recipient of these objections.
The fourth point I want to make is this: There is no other evidence than the Bible that Jesus actually lived. The gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus from oral accounts. As an example of where I'm going with this is this: can you give me an accurate accounting of the Cuban missile crisis without looking it up? Or as another example... how many people believe in UFO's? The primary qualification of the Bible's authors was that they could read and write. This was not a common talent. People don't think about this much but have an inherent belief that the events in the Bible could not have happened the way they have been taught. "It was a long time ago and what did they know?"
Number five: When we look at other cultures and see how they are behaving in the middle east we are looking directly at how Christianity behaved 700 years ago. Again, people don't understand this to any great degree but they feel it. They sort of get it.
Yes, many of the teachings of Jesus as presented in the Bible are definitely worth living. But they are contained only in the four gospels. And... the four gospels contradict each other in many places. Again, most people don't have an understanding of these conflicts but ask any biblical scholar... they know.
For me, I do endeavor to live much of what "Jesus taught." Those are the beliefs I grew up with. I find these to be everlasting concepts and just a decent way to live. However, I don't need Jesus to live a good life by these principles. This may be a revelation to many non obedient... but they too feel similarly without being able to verbalize it. The best "Christians" I know are atheists. They don't need the fear of God and sin to motivate them to do the right thing. They just see it as the best way to live.
These are just some observations and my opinions to answer your questions. They are free and worth every penny.
Matt 7:16-20. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Sapere Aude
These are the words I take from the Old Testament and really nothing more that I incorporate into my everyday thought process. My value in the scripture lies entirely in the New Testament. "Isaiah 9:2King James Version (KJV)
2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."
Ha! I knew you'd give that to me, Deborah. ;) I no longer have my scriptures close at hand. My fine leather-bound Mormon edition of the King James is sitting in a box somewhere.
Quote from: stephaniec on June 04, 2016, 02:44:03 PM
These are the words I take from the Old Testament and really nothing more that I incorporate into my everyday thought process. My value in the scripture lies entirely in the New Testament. "Isaiah 9:2King James Version (KJV)
2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."
Personally, I love the Psalms. They were beautifully written and some of them flow like fine poetry.
I have about 3000 theology and philosophy books plus every Bible version available through Logos on my phone and computer. I got all that when I was studying for ordination and keep it available for reference. Logos makes searching for and finding things very easy. LOL
I spent nearly two years as a Mormon at the beginning of my really serious search for God. They were all very nice people but as I learned more I found things I couldn't accept and they wouldn't explain. That was primarily related to deification.
Sapere Aude
One problem with discarding the Old Testament is that the Gospel writers rely on it extensively in making the case that Jesus fulfills prophecy as the messiah. Without those fulfilled prophesies his story is no different than dozens of other apocalyptic preachers that were roaming Israel at the time.
Sapere Aude
Quote from: Deborah on June 04, 2016, 02:53:25 PM
I spent nearly two years as a Mormon at the beginning of my really serious search for God. They were all very nice people but as I learned more I found things I couldn't accept and they wouldn't explain. That was primarily related to deification.
Sapere Aude
I grew up in the faith and went on a mission. I was the brunt of many horrendous non-spiritual experiences and told it was because I had a lack of faith. I still hung on, did as they told me, and got married. I was a good member. After a few years, my life fell apart. My beliefs drove me to two suicide attempts. I finally woke up and decided that my life was worth living without all the guilt.
I be back for a more philosophical approach to my replies, but how would the people of that time in the year 0-33 AD explain If some Time traveler took a nuclear warhead back in time and exploded it in the desert away from the population , but obviously would be experienced . What kind of stories would there be of the event.
That is precisely the issue. There are absolutely no stories or reports of a living Jesus before at least 70AD. It is not believable that all the things he is reported to have done and the things that are reported to have happened went unnoticed by everybody.
Paul did not even claim there was a living Jesus. His writings claimed he met a spirit.
Sapere Aude
It would have been explained as an act of God expressing his anger as a warning to the sinful. They may have had another round of cleansing killings. Shoot, back then, they didn't even know what the sun or the stars were. Remember, at that time, they believed in the god of vengeance, the one of the Old Testament. But this is all conjecture.
Quote from: Deborah on June 04, 2016, 04:15:33 PM
That is precisely the issue. There are absolutely no stories or reports of a living Jesus before at least 70AD. It is not believable that all the things he is reported to have done and the things that are reported to have happened went unnoticed by everybody.
Paul did not even claim there was a living Jesus. His writings claimed he met a spirit.
Sapere Aude
well, honestly The Jewish people were basically the captive race under revolt. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD because the Romans had enough and couldn't bend the jews to their will. With that kind of conflict between the Romans and within the Jewish community you can't reasonably expect to have surviving documentation other than word of mouth. Also the fact the Christ's teaching were banned by both the Romans and the Jewish leaders. The disciples would be the only source for the truth to continue.
to show the turmoil of leaving documentation in that time just take the Essene's . We only know about their philosophies from the documents hidden in a cave away from the Romans. The Romans were't going to allow any information about a King they murdered unjustly or a God when they had their old God in Caesar .
Matt 27:45. Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
The Gospel reports a three hour long eclipse of the sun from noon until 3 pm. The Romans were there and were literate. It was also the Passover so Jews from throughout the empire were there too. Yet none of them noticed the sun disappearing for three hours in the middle of the afternoon. Nobody in the neighboring countries that bordered Israel noticed either. Reporting a fantastic celestial event that has never happened before would not require them to even connect the event with the crucifixion.
If we go the route of writing this event off as myth making then we simply admit that the gospels are not a reliable witness. How much more was simply myth making? And outside them there is nothing else.
Sapere Aude
I think it comes down to what you believe and what I believe which seem to be polar opposites and never the twain shall meet , which is fine.
Quote from: stephaniec on June 04, 2016, 04:50:13 PM
to show the turmoil of leaving documentation in that time just take the Essene's . We only know about their philosophies from the documents hidden in a cave away from the Romans. The Romans were't going to allow any information about a King they murdered unjustly or a God when they had their old God in Caesar .
FWIW, in the time period up to 70 CE the emperors weren't exactly the ones suffering delusions of godhood. We're talking about Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, and then The Year of Four Emperors with Galba/Otho/Vitellius/Vespasian. A couple of those were rather notoriously looney tunes, but 33 CE was Tiberius and he was very much still playing Octavianus' game of "first citizen" rather than even "emperor," let alone "god." While Nero may have been a paranoid narcissist, and Caligula a sadist with overweening ambition, I don't believe either of them had himself consecrated a god, either.
Also, the Romans didn't mind making a spectacle of people they crucified, as Spartacus could attest. It was kind of the point of the exercise in their opinion. How can people possibly get the benefit of a good educational crucifixion if you don't tell the world about it? That's the way to get them to do the only two things the Romans really cared about in their subject nations: Pay your taxes and don't incite rebellion. Avoid those two things, and you could probably avoid being crucified in the Roman Empire. Or paraded through the streets in chains, or whatever other unsubtle punishment the Romans deemed appropriate. Stalinist "disappearances" weren't on the agenda for them.
well, I guess it comes to personal beliefs and every has them,
Quote from: Deborah on June 04, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
Matt 27:45. Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
The Gospel reports a three hour long eclipse of the sun from noon until 3 pm. The Romans were there and were literate. It was also the Passover so Jews from throughout the empire were there too. Yet none of them noticed the sun disappearing for three hours in the middle of the afternoon. Nobody in the neighboring countries that bordered Israel noticed either. Reporting a fantastic celestial event that has never happened before would not require them to even connect the event with the crucifixion.
If we go the route of writing this event off as myth making then we simply admit that the gospels are not a reliable witness. How much more was simply myth making? And outside them there is nothing else.
Sapere Aude
I'm not going to pursue this issue farther because it comes to personal beliefs, but I will say that the eclipse of the sun could be due to incredibly dark storm clouds turning day into night , which I'm sure everyone has seen in their life time . They would of been very localized being above the dying Lord in an expression of nature as the dying Lord , the God/man gave up his spirit.
I believe it was written as theology and not as history at all. The darkness in the story was simply a symbol. See definition 2a below from Strong's Lexicon.
People later came to believe it literally as the story spread and myth became history.
4655 σκότος [skotos /skot·os/] n n. From the base of 4639; TDNT 7:423; TDNTA 1049; GK 5030; 32 occurrences; AV translates as "darkness" 32 times. 1 darkness. 1a of night darkness. 1b of darkened eyesight or blindness. 2 metaph. 2a of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery in hell. 2b persons in whom darkness becomes visible and holds sway.
Sapere Aude
again no problem, I just believe the intimate relation between God and man within The Christ Godhead would cause nature to be affected by Christ's suffering and last breath as he become totally divine and left natures hold.
the walking on water , the turning water to wine , Jesus coming on the clouds can all be explained in a rational way., but that's for some other time.The walking on water and the coming on the clouds are a part of the same intimate bond between the divine and human where nature is affected. The turning wine into water I believe is part of a slightly different rationale having to do with the history of mathematics in regards to the Jewish people beginning with the story of Noah and the building of the ark with the dimensions of 30*50*300. There is a way to show these dimensions represent the construction of the value of pi.Which makes sense since the Jews were laborers involved in the building of structure in Egypt where they would be quite proficient in the use of mathematics to help in construction. I can show how it was done . The water into wine is about this approach to solving for pi.
—1 Kings 7:23—
1 Kings 7:23 King James
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
This is quite coincidental given that the dimensions of the ark are 30 50 and 300. the bath's dimensions are 10 5 and 30 if you start with 5 then multiply the second and the third by the given dimension of 10 which is the diagonal line where you divide into the circumference to attain pi, but here we reverse it to say we multiply by 10 instead of division.
I'm suggesting someone had a method. The method for solving for pi in 1Kings was used to show that the scholars were aware of this and pi was known to be of interest as the Jewish faith progressed. Now we come to Jesus. He's considered a prodigy and a carpenter who by necessity would work with some knowledge of mathematics and also a prodigy of the scriptures. extrapolation brings you to the possibility that Jesus was aware of what someone discovered earlier. I'm not going to extrapolate further , but there is a possibility of a brilliant method way before its time for a more accurate method for solving for pi. Now I want to make this clear that this is total speculation on my part and there is no evidence outside of what I can methodically show that this idea has any validity whatsoever .
also one would not want the the Romans to have the ability to make more accurate weaponry with a more accurate method for angles.
It is the same today as it was at the end of the First Century when Jesus related to John in exile at Patmos in Revelations 2 and 3. The letter to the Seven Churches. He chewed out 5 of them with charges from being lukewarm in faith to outright introduction of idolatry and its adulteries to the faith. The same has been going on since the Second Century void to today. Counterfeit codecs, Latin Vulgate, misinterpretations of the Old Greek, the discarding and destruction of some of the codecs that are not in today's Bible of any sort and other phony documents made in the centuries since doesn't help either! Jesus didn't mince words in that letter to the Seven Churches and the same would be said of the Churches since and today at the final Judgement.
As with the other established non-Christian religions, Jesus said "Repent!" As simple as that. Misuse of His word by anybody is wrong by Him.
Joelene
Book of Revelation 22:19
"And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."
to me the Book Of Revelation is a master piece. I believe it is written in the style it is to disguise important facts about the life of Jesus. As stated in Revelations . not one word is to be taken away or added under punishment of non existence . The pyramids have dire warnings for anyone desecrating a tomb. I believe such a warning is added so the exact wording of the Book of revelations were not to be altered in any way to preserve the hidden facts that were kept hidden from Rome.Let me state this is all speculation on my part and may be just psychotic ramblings of an old LSD freak but there are numerous suggestions throughout the text that portray the human side of my beloved Lord and also his divine nature. Facts which are preserved in a seeming psychotic ramble but represent the Lords other proclivity as a mathematician as astute as Archimedes . I'm in the process of writing this thesis with substantive analytical proof that this is a possibility , but 3 years ago I got side tracked with an obsession with being transgender and devoting way too much time on transgender related issues. I need to finish my paper though ,some how if I can pull myself away from trans stuff.But the gist of the paper is to show the human side of Christ as what I believe is a deceptively detailed account of his work as a mathematician.Please forgive me if I sound wacko , but it's something I feel I can prove. Christ the prodigy both human and divine. Again I'm sorry if I sound like a psychotic, but my time on this planet is limited and I need to get the story of my beloved Lord out because if you see Christ as a true prodigy maybe the doubt about his existence will slowly fall away.
basically through a combination of the gospels and the book of Revelation one can construct a pi formula that is the same formula that is used in modern day to solve for pi. It takes some gathering of passage , but it's there.Archimedes achieved the measurement of pi basically as 22/7. I believe that Jesus came up with the formula sine/(cos/2^n) which was a major advance for that time. The problem is that the importance of Christ is his divine nature to lead mankind out of the darkness and the emphasis on his human side needed to be diminished .Also the problem of giving the Roman war machine more of an advantage in precision of their weapons so the mathematics needed to be hidden in apparent psychotic rambling.at the very least I could write an interesting fiction novel. But the true importance of all this is my love for Jesus.
just to show my rationale for the mathematics of the bible and the Jewish people. The key to solving for and approximation for pi using the measurements of the ark is the pythagorean theorem .The theorem could of been developed by builders in Egypt especially if it was the Jewish engineers they wouldn't of disclosed the secret. or the time of when the ark story might of been after pyathagoras . Either way the formula is for what is known as a bipyramid structure A^2 + B^2 + c^2 = d^2 with this you can produce an approximation to pi at 3.1417 . Archimedes I believe got 3.1416. These are the kind of facts embedded in the New Testament to construct the formula sin/(cos/2^n).As a hint to the method in the New Testament with the story of the wedding at Cana . as I recall there were 6 jugs used and filled to the brim and then some water was drawn out. This would designate Archimedes aproach to the solving of pi. You take the circumference of the jar opening as one circle than drawing out wine would produce a smaller circle within the larger circle , Archimedes used this method to derive pi and dividing this space into segments. If you take the circumference of the circle at 360 degrees and divide by 6 (the 6 jars), you get 60. The modern formula for pi is Sin(60)/cos(2^n). There is a lot more to the justification for doing this in the story of the new wine , but it would take awhile to explain because it's rigorous . It seems to me very possible , but then again I'm bias towards my Lord so who knows. The book of revelations goes into a more rigorous description of this method but it's is somewhat hidden by metaphor, but when written out completely it seems to make sense as describing a pi recipe. And the numbers fit perfectly to produce pi unless you change what is written.