I'm still at the hospital having a great time being gendered properly by nurses and doctors. I always get gendered properly at the LGBT clinic I go to , but this is a first for getting treated properly by doctors and nurses not involved much in the LGBT community. The thing is thought is that it's weird having them know your trans. I kind of feel that I'd come off false if I seemed to be trying to sound too female and not quite make it. I usually try softer and slightly higher octaves, but when your trying to describe your history repeatedly I tend to not try so hard and I wonder if I should try harder even though they know your status. Just a curious thing that has happened.
Im not making any effort in talking feminine. My voice isnt that deep but it is not the standard female tone. It doesnt make any difference if you look very passable... However if you sound like someone that just smoked 5 pack of cigarettes in the afternoon then... well.. you arent giving yourself any chances.
acceptable for me.
I think it is acceptable, my only difficult time is using the telephone which automatically lowers the sound of *everyone's* voice.
My voice has changed somewhat just on it's own over the past several months. Yesterday I was taking some video of my horses playing in the pasture and was talking to my wife while filming. I was dreading playing it back because of what I would sound like but was pleasantly surprised when I did.
My voice is still somewhat on the deep side but sounds much more feminine just due to the way I talk now. I don't think it has anything at all to do with HRT or any actual physical changes but more in how I form words than anything.
Quote from: stephaniec on April 18, 2016, 05:20:11 PM
I wonder if I should try harder even though they know your status.
You don't owe anyone anything except yourself. Present in whatever way is comfortable for you. It is up to them to accept you as you are. It's their obligation as human beings. They have no right to judge you. That privilege is reserved solely for yourself.
I tend not to obsess on it. I have a deep male voice and even with professional help I doubt much can be done beyond the octave or so I can raise it from the sub-basement.
I also grew up in the day and age of 2 pack a day female cigarette smokers. After 20-30 years of that I am a Soprano in comparison
I avoided telephone calls because of the misgendering. To be honest I was not strong enough to live with my deeper voice and therefor I had VFS with Dr. Haben.
I am really jealous of the girls who can live with it. Because the voice is not defining the gender.
good advice from everyone
I used to try and speak with a higher pitch, but it made my throat hurt so much I started to fear permanently damaging my vocal cords. Right now speech therapy is higher on my list than GRS or electrolysis.
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The question of whether it's acceptable to have a deep voice is totally subjective.
Personally I hate, hate the idea of my voice being incongruent with my appearance and I also deeply hate being misgendered on the phone so I am working very very hard in order to feminize my voice. The other thing I hate is the idea of passing as cis until I open my mouth and then I'm clocked as trans. My ultimate goal is for my voice to be unclockable. I might never get there but that's at least my goal.
I have also started to realize recently that pitch is not everything. It's totally possible to have a pitch in the male range and sound female so long as your speaking patters and resonance are on point.
I don't mind my own voice that much, though I would prefer it be more feminine. That said, if I don't at least adjust it a little, people will immediately go from "Miss"/"Maam" to "Sir".
To the question. Yes, but the pitch isnt the whole part of it. Cher has a deep voice, but when pair with her face, obviously female. I read a lot of youtube comments though that people thought she was a man at first because of her voice.
this may sound like a dumb reason , but I've come to the conclusion that the value of wearing the proper clothes far exceeds the concerns of my voice.
Quote from: stephaniec on April 20, 2016, 02:22:03 AM
this may sound like a dumb reason , but I've come to the conclusion that the value of wearing the proper clothes far exceeds the concerns of my voice.
In other words, dress the way you feel.
Good advice for everyone, cis or trans.
First I would like to say that I wholly believe being "passable" is far mor based on ar comfort with arselves over how we appear to others. There ar pleanty of cis women in na world whom have quite masculine features, have facial hair, an yes deeper voicesthan na standard cis woman. When folks "clock" us or even ar fixated on us as they cant quite tell what gender we ar, they may make some comment or expression of some kind but if ye notice sharp this is usually a weak lead in an theyre looking at us for confirmation through ar reaction. Fear, embarrassment, anger, these ar na truths that I see give us away. Yes I agree with what was said of Cher, a deep musky voice yet no doubt feminine. Frustration is never a good reason to cease attempts at self improvement but definitely find whom ye ar, your comfort, an just bi yerself. Voice is hard indeed, but when ye can pull it off it's just amazing. Having a good voice can make a masculine face seem mor Feminine. I had a phone interview for to schedule an CT scan. Na nurse whilst interviewing mi got to na question of marital status. Divorced says I. She then asked mi maiden name........... OMG.... I said mi last as it still is. She said "so you kept your name through your marriage or did you not change your name ........ um.... um...... OH!!! OMG M soooooo sorry!!! lol I was laughing like na devil an it made mi heart soar like a Phoenix. When ar hard work pays off it's truly priceless. We must all learn to accept ar imperfections, but if we just keep pushing arselves just a little mor we just mite make a breakthrough. :)
i have been struggling with this recently, and i think yes, it is okay to just have a deep voice. i know before i realized i was trans i was trying so hard to do everything i could to "be a man" instead of who i really was. i don't want to get caught up in the same frenzy on the opposite side, though; i am okay with people knowing i am transgender; if they can't respect that, at least i know it right away rather than far down the road.
I've accepted that Ill never sound cis, which would be great , but I think I an carry on a conversation that fairly alright. even if it leans male like , but I can't really tell because I haven't been in a situation where I can ask someone how I sound. A tape recorder would probably help.
My answer is yes. Accepting ourselves still offers opportunities for embracing and directing changes in our transition. For some it is critically important to have a "passable" voice. I have worked with a professional therapist, thought it over and concluded that my "voice" represents more than gender as a unique signature of who i am. I am content to have my voice be ambiguous while others will invest considerable effort to "find" their voice.
Your voice is yours to own and use as an instrument that best expresses your songs.
I would say you can live with a deep voice as I do, the only issues I have had is with phone calls yet they quickly change when they know my name. I never get sired in person. There was a cis girl I met the other week which was had a deep voice, she had similar issues.
So story is even females have deep voices, sure I would love to get my pitch up to sound girly but no one notices or cares about my voice around me anyway lol. They all assume I am natural female even with the voice.
It's not so much the pitch but the resonance and how melodic your voice sounds like when talking. However, if the question is if its ok for a woman to have a deep voice - yes. However, I still think that voice is given less priority when in my own experience it was may biggest swing vote when someone tries to clock me.
Early in my transition, I used to get the questioning looks but as soon as I open my mouth, the confusion goes away and I go on with my day.
I suggest that you keep trying to improve it.
I would think that a deep voice that is feminine sounding is just fine, there are plenty of woman who have deep voices but the kicker is they are deep (and many times very likeable) but sound feminine rather than masculine.
Speaking to the choir for many here, the telephone is what makes or breaks a transgender person or when speaking to a cisgender person not face to face as when we speak face to face there is a visual aspect that comes into play.
It's a two edge sword, if you decide what you currently have is acceptable to you and does not properly pass for female in pitch and resonance to those you interact with daily and those you interact with infrequently will form an impression of you for being transgender or crossdresser.
Kind of a little off topic but want to mention this. Voice and facial appearance says a good deal about a person when you meet them. Example, a middle age male to female with a not so good female voice but physically passes will call attention to themselves because first the person meeting you might think, she is attractive but there is something off with her voice verses a male to female with a decent or better female voice that semi-passes will fit in better as humans in general will focus first on the voice rather than the face. Of course there are countless variations on this and how a particular person thinks so take this at face value as I am not a professional, just my personal opinion from being around transgender and crossdressers for most of my life.
It goes back to "what makes you feel comfortable in public and on the telephone" or "I want to be as presentable as possible" keeping in mind how others may perceive you and if this is important or not.
Whatever your voice sounds like it is acceptable because it is YOUR voice.
If you are unhappy with your voice you have plenty of time to work on it. The main trick is to raise the adam's apple to get the higher voice. There are exercises to help with that (swallow and hold repeatedly for periods of time to strengthen the muscles, and while you are doing that feel your adam's apple - it raises).
While you are working on that listen carefully to how women talk vs. how men talk - notice that women enunciate words clearly, they emphasize words, their speech is more animated, their voices tend to be a little more breathy, and their sentences tend to end on an upward note. These are speech markers that help people gender you as female.
Going full time has really helped me a lot with my own voice - I now have a lot of motivation to avoid being clocked so I try harder.
Should it be acceptable? Of course.
Is it acceptable in society? As in will some people not look twice at you if you speak with a lower / non-feminine voice? Well no.
That's what it comes down to....the morality of it is that it shouldn't have to be a thing but the reality of it....to live in society today, it's much easier if your voice matches your look.
"If your happiness depends on what somebody else does, I guess you do have a problem."
― Richard Bach Illusions
I know it is true for me. I am just not enlightened enough... yet
A problem is that people tend not to understand my talking at first. I repeat it and some of them understand it. Repeat again, then most of them get it. This problem does not happen to my colleagues, students and friends who know me well. I guess the reason is that those strangers expect a high-pitch voice from me, but my voice is unexpectedly low, making it difficult for them to understand my talking at first. But, this is my life anyway.
barbie~~
I just try talking softer. I have never had much flexibility in my voice and always get called out as being male on the telephone. In person, many people just see an old granny and seem to be discreet about questioning my gender or don't show that they care. For the past 8 years all anyone ever sees is a graying old granny and I may have that school teacher demeanor because I taught school for over thirty years. Any more. I don't know if I am seen as a lady or as a man who cross dresses and since I can't do much about what others think, I try not to let it bother me.
An example of this is that my hiatal hernia acted up and I have pain at the top of my stomach when I chew food. I went to get an x-ray at the University Hospital downtown. My driver's licence still has the M and my name spelled Michael which I say I pronounce as Michelle. I gave them my driver's license and Medicare insurance card. When they called my up to give me my cards back the lady softly said, "Ms Hackler." However when they took me back to put on my gown, I was placed in the men's dressing room, but I was alone there. I did fear them bringing in a man. I was able to keep my skirt on because the x-rays were of the upper area. Everyone was polite to me, so if they had negative thoughts they kept them to themselves.
This is in Florida. I don't do makeup hardly at all because I have never been one to constantly check my appearance so life removes my makeup or leaves my eye area with flecks of mascara. I pretty much accept that in transitioning I will be the same kinda person that I was while I was trying to live butch. I never have been a male, I just spent most of my life trying to be one because my parents and society labeled me as one.
My philosophy is to see my life as a unity, and not see myself as having a male life and a female life. So when it comes to my voice, which has been more of a tenor than a bass, I just try and talk softer, don't exceed much.
I also have a twelve-year-old son with my cis partner and when his friends ask him who I am, he says, "That's my dad." Which also means that I am just a transsexual lady, and I just have to be myself and let the chips fall where they may.
I am still not sure how to deal with conversations when I talk about my biological children with other ladies. They will make assumptions about me and pregnancy, but as far as raising them I did everything else any other woman would have done except possibly nurse them, but then their cis mothers were never into nursing any of our children anyway. The same can be said if you get into converstions about your children with men, and they ask if they may ask now difficult your pregnancy was. Then the other part of the story is the friends your kids bring home.
So a lot more goes into your conversations other than your voice quality in transitioning into being a woman. For myself, I find it easier to just let people think what they think, but not lie. If you have dealt satisfactorily with these issues, then your voice is just a minor problem.
A couple of weeks ago, a girlfriend and I walked into a restaurant, and the guy at the counter said "hello ladies, how can I help you?" But after he heard my voice, he called me "sir." Maybe he hadn't seen my face clearly because I was backlit and he only saw the silhouettes of two people in dresses as we came in the door. I'll never know.
I think it all depends on how deep your voice really is. I can sing baritone, so I think that I'd never pass without serious training. Fortunately, I'm entirely at peace with that. I don't identify as a woman.
I thought I'd share this video with this thread, as proof that Cis-women can naturally have very deep voices as well.
I live in the UK and over here we have a sports correspondent called Tanya Arnold, who is noted for her very deep voice. A lot of people thought she was transgender until she actually said that she was Cisgender. Anyway, thought this might help make anyone who is struggling to feel better about their voice. Women's voices come in all kinds of tones and pitches. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8QPqeOr47E
good to know
Quote from: T90 on April 24, 2016, 03:55:04 PM
I thought I'd share this video with this thread, as proof that Cis-women can naturally have very deep voices as well.
I live in the UK and over here we have a sports correspondent called Tanya Arnold, who is noted for her very deep voice. A lot of people thought she was transgender until she actually said that she was Cisgender. Anyway, thought this might help make anyone who is struggling to feel better about their voice. Women's voices come in all kinds of tones and pitches. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8QPqeOr47E
Foreigners tend to denote me 'she' even after hearing me speaking broken English with deep, low voice. I am not quite sure whether I pass or they are just so kind to intentionally call as such. In my native language, nearly all people can tell my biological sex.
barbie~~
My thought is why settle for less than you deserve; most of us can have a femine voice within the female pitch range without surgery if we put forth the effort.
Quote from: kittenpower on April 26, 2016, 05:53:20 PM
My thought is why settle for less than you deserve; most of us can have a femine voice within the female pitch range without surgery if we put forth the effort.
True.
But why should we feel we have to? Why should we feel we need to hold ourselves to an artificial standard of feminine presentation dictated by what cisgender women look and sound like?
Quote from: kittenpower on April 26, 2016, 05:53:20 PM
My thought is why settle for less than you deserve; most of us can have a femine voice within the female pitch range without surgery if we put forth the effort.
My thought is that what I deserve is to be me, a person with no desire to change their voice. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Personally i have a deep voice and i cant stand it. I sigbed up for voice therapy in a few weeks to brgin trying to change the way i sound. Ive heard it takes an incredible amount of practice but totally worth it to me. For me, id prefer to sound the part but to each their own...as long as youre happy and good w it, go for it! :)
For me I couldn't have lived with a deep voice. I would have went after surgery to remedy. It comes down to personal preference and comfort in the end though. So many woman do have rather low voices as my therapist pointed out. Both of my therapists had lower voices and were thought no less of as woman because of them. A big part of it comes down to other things like infection. Hugs
mariah
I've been practicing with my voice mail recorder. I sound like my therapist. Pretty funny