So my mom is like the QUEEN of being accidentally offensive about me being trans. Although her comments bother me a little, I try laugh them off--but they still astound me with their absurdity at times. Just yesterday it was these:
"Are you sure about this top surgery thing? What if you change your mind about being trans? I mean, last year you were going to move to Utila permanently for that Divemaster job and you came back."
Yes mom, it is JUST like an employment change. Let me fill out my gender resume and hopefully I will find a new identity tomorrow.
"So this trans man you are friends with... He wants to be a woman, right?"
After attending trans support groups with me and six months of talking to your trans man son, you STILL can't figure out that if I am calling him "he" and a "trans man," that's the gender he identifies with, not the one assigned at birth? No wonder you have a hard time keeping pronouns straight.
"It's tough for us that you're making a choice like this? Imagine how tough it would be for you if your dad and I decided to divorce!"
Yes, I get its tough. But poor comparison much? I didn't marry my gender, it was assigned to me--not a choice to BEGIN with. And no, to be honest I don't think I would be all that bothered by you and dad divorcing since I am 30 years old and it no longer matters to me whether you two live together or not. Ya know, since I am an adult and I almost never spend time with the two of you together anyway, sticking to just mom or just dad since you two drive me crazy when together.
"I don't know if I am comfortable with you sharing a bedroom with [my dad's best friend]. You know, since he's... A guy."
Yeah, me too. Of course, I'm also bisexual, but that just screws with the reasoning behind all your gender based sleeping arrangements, doesn't it?
Argh, I love the woman, but it's been seven months since I came out, and she is still in so much denial. She doesn't even try and learn more about being transgender, which leads to her saying soooo many offensive-by-accident things. I don't blame her because she is trying to accept it as best she can, but it drives me nuts when she says things she thinks are logical and it's just a kick in the junk that she understands nothing about being trans. So many facepalms! Learning is such a slow process in this case.
Perhaps you get offended too easily? If it was someone you didn't know so well sure, but not everyone related to a trans person is going too, or should research everything about being transexual. My dad still doesn't get it, but so what? I think you should get a thicker skin and not judge her to be honest. Especially when parents can be purposefully offensive, kick their children out, disown them or even physically abusive to them for being transexual, stop whining.
Parent's don't you just love 'em...In spite of themselves. Your parents chose their path. You need to explorer yours, wherever it leads you. You are a trail blazer. By the time you're my age let's hope the religious haters of today are replaced by real Christians that believe all the Bible and are striving to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Teachings of acceptance and love for one another. Love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no greater commandment.
Since you're 30 and clearly not dependent on her for anything, you could evaluate how she is making you feel and make decisions based on that. Is being around her and hearing these things really dis-empowering, harmful and hurtful? If yes, then maybe you should try to tell her that and that you will choose to spend much less time with and around her. It's so important that our loved ones and those close to us honor who we are and make us feel good, instead of always making us fight for our validity.
Ha, this sounds like my mom. Not malicious, just clueless.
So, so clueless. I haven't been out as long as you, but I'm pretty sure she still hasn't even read the pamphlet I sent along with my coming out letter. Here's hoping both of ours figure it out.
Quote from: Jestwacked on April 21, 2016, 11:08:51 AM
Perhaps you get offended too easily? If it was someone you didn't know so well sure, but not everyone related to a trans person is going too, or should research everything about being transexual. My dad still doesn't get it, but so what? I think you should get a thicker skin and not judge her to be honest. Especially when parents can be purposefully offensive, kick their children out, disown them or even physically abusive to them for being transexual, stop whining.
It's not whining to hope for more than the bare minimum of parental acceptance, and it's a fairly bizarre standard to think people you don't know as well need to put in more effort to understand being trans than anyone should even ask of their own family. The idea that trans people should be grateful just for not being abused or thrown out isn't helpful to anyone.
It's really hard with family because they have always known you. They have a very difficult time envisioning the real you for historical purposes. I too have heard some real boners (yes, stupid statements not the sexual crap) from my mother. It has been 29 years since I went under the knife and she still says something off the wall from time to time. I just chill. She's still the best. I love her dearly.
Quote from: Rufio on April 21, 2016, 12:13:51 PM
The idea that trans people should be grateful just for not being abused or thrown out isn't helpful to anyone.
I agree 100%.
Although it took me about 10 whole seconds to grasp the concept that a "transman" goes from AFAB to male gender marker when I first heard the term, and a transwoman being the associated opposite, with a second or two to double-check in my brain I got it right, I notice many cis people have incredible difficulty understanding or remembering what way around transman and transwoman is and what it describes. So I forgive people for that. They've probably devoted very little time to ever thinking about it and much less retain the information easily. I retained it because I needed to, and I understood it because I needed desperately to understand the nature of my condition and then use it to describe myself to a therapist. But they don't have to, so it makes sense it goes in one ear and out the other oftentimes.
Rather often in casual conversation I find myself saying things that are personally offensive, I'm kind of an ahole. But as long as there's no malicious intent from other people saying stuff then I try not to get too upset.
Though it can wear one down a bit when the constant "dude!", "how's it going man!", "Welcome to Walgreens, SIR" thing gets going. It feels like, and it may just be my own flawed perception, that at times there's an extra emphasis placed on those sorts of pronouns than usual, as if they're trying to reinforce something. Sometimes it's more of a verbal tic, and chicks can be called dudes in a gender neutral way, but it sometimes feels as if it's being used as a way for people to clearly define me or their relationship with me when those subjects would otherwise be...less than clearly labelled? And I'm guilty of doing it too, letting the occasional "sup dude!" or "how's it going man" slip. I said that crap to people for (#) years and it can be easy to fall back into that sort of dudebro mindset at times, especially around male friends that I've known forever. And I don't want to call people out on doing stuff that's not intentionally malicious, so I just keep quiet about it.
Our parents have raised us our whole lives as one way, and we then prove that way to be completely wrong, it does take time to adjust.
At least she is supportive in one way or another, and sort of trying to learn. Yes some information she may have might be wrong or misinterpreted, but isn't it us to provide the correct definition to someone who does not have the correct vocabulary?
I know my own parents and family are supportive, yet of course they don't know everything, and I don't expect them to know everything, I always leave it so that if they have any questions I can answer those as best I can.
But to this response. I was 28 when I came out to them. So 28 years of being raised one way, and to a sort of upheaval in the track of what they had. Does it bother me that they still refer to me with my previous name (that I tell them I do not like at all). Yes it does, but they knew that name for 28 years, I expect a one to one ratio of getting caught up. If it happens sooner then that would be best for my own accord.
Kate <3
It's interesting. My parents told me long before I told them I was trans that they deliberately raised me without gender roles, to allow me to choose how I wanted to express. But given my mother's reaction to my trans-ness (i.e. it's something that should only happen to other people's kids, when it happens to mine it's clearly some kind of fashion statement), yeah, I think even the most self-proclaimed progressive parents can find themselves actually not comprehending or agreeing with your true expression.
I figure my mother wanted to raise a girl that could express as more masculine if she wanted to, because she was a feminist or whatever, not a child that was truly free to choose its gender expression. She doesn't think that's what she was doing but I suspect it. But paradoxically, she also treated me much as she does other men, even as a child. If I wanted help with something she would tell me to go figure out how to help myself, and she told me often the world was a Jack London style nightmare which would chew me up and spit me out unless I was able to be self-sufficient. Then she complained later when I failed to display gossipy behavior and kept most of my life under wraps and declared me boring. XD She told me she would always help me if I needed help but on the few occasions I did ask for it, I was chastised for doing so. Parents can be strange and difficult to understand. I'm sure they feel they were doing right but I do think it might be beyond some of them to accept their child as transgender, even just to accept their child as a free agent in control of their own life.
So it doesn't annoy you at all when people suggest that transitioning or exploring your gender at all is a trivial matter, because you could have so many other seemingly worse problems? If we're not allowed to complain about low level laziness/confusion/ignorance are we still allowed to have dysphoria? The majority of us here are able bodied, should we just be thankful for that and forget this transition business?
Some people's ignorance and reliance on their 'confusion' as an excuse, is one of the things weighing against us. If they don't take the time to understand the trans people that are actually in their lives, they're probably not going to take the time to support or protect or speak out against the physical abuse of trans people that they don't know either. It's part of a chain that leads the most vulnerable of us to harm.
Also a trans person being against social justice is pretty ironic lol
Mod Edit- Edited to ensure that it doesn't bash the CIS community. TOS 10.
Locking for Cleanup
:police:
Okay folks here is the deal. I can understand that some of the people around us have difficulty with our transitions and that their short comings do and will affect us. We need to very mindful about what we say about everyone be it CIS and Trans. Yes, we all have short coming and yes we all make mistakes, but lets please be careful to avoid the following:
Belittling
Rediculing
Bashing
Attacking
Lets also please keep in mind the following TOS. I'm going to reopen the thread, but please keep these and all the rules in mind or there is a very good chance the thread will get locked again for good. Thanks
Mariah
5. The posting of messages on the chat or forums which are of a threatening tone; intended solely to communicate sarcasm, contempt, or derision; are intended to belittle or ridicule a person or group; to disgust the viewer; contain obscene or pornographic materials; which are intended to titillate (http://www.answers.com/titillate); or which depicts/promotes illegal acts; will not be permitted.
9. If you disapprove of people who are Transgender, Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual; or activities which cross gender boundaries; take your arguments to a more appropriate website.
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- Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
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My mom is quick to say birthnameAlex every single sentence almost. Right now it isn't a big deal as I don't really do much with people I know but once the T kicks in and I make friends that only know me as Alex I would not have her around them or do anything which would put me in a tight spot like that.
Quote from: Jestwacked on April 21, 2016, 11:08:51 AM
Perhaps you get offended too easily? If it was someone you didn't know so well sure, but not everyone related to a trans person is going too, or should research everything about being transexual. My dad still doesn't get it, but so what? I think you should get a thicker skin and not judge her to be honest. Especially when parents can be purposefully offensive, kick their children out, disown them or even physically abusive to them for being transexual, stop whining.
Hey Jest, I think you may have misunderstood the intended tone of my post. It was meant with weary humor--as in I find the comments a little absurd, but overall it amuses me even though it can be tough to handle when people around you don't understand. That is why I mentioned that I love her and acknowledged that learning takes time. We all want the people around us to know us as who we are, so I would say that my feelings are probably a common thing that many trans people go through--we love our family members and appreciate that it is hard for them, but we still find it frustrating that they say the wrong things so very often. As for some trans people being abused by family members, that is very true (and sad), but it certainly doesn't invalidate the feelings of the rest of us. I have always been especially close to my parents, being an only child. They have always been my best friends. So I find it particularly difficult that this has created a rift between us, and I honestly wish we could get back to where we were--but that is difficult because my mom hasn't fully accepted it yet and is unwilling to learn more about what it means to be trans because that would make it more real. But as I mentioned, the intention of this post was actually to express my weary humor at the things she says rather than any sort of complaint, and I'm sorry if it didn't read that way to you and you found it offensive. That's the downside of type over talk--no smirks can't be seen or chuckles heard!
Quote from: freebrady2015 on April 21, 2016, 11:59:23 AM
Since you're 30 and clearly not dependent on her for anything, you could evaluate how she is making you feel and make decisions based on that. Is being around her and hearing these things really dis-empowering, harmful and hurtful? If yes, then maybe you should try to tell her that and that you will choose to spend much less time with and around her. It's so important that our loved ones and those close to us honor who we are and make us feel good, instead of always making us fight for our validity.
Honestly when I said "absurd" I really meant in the humorous sense. Like these things bother me, but they also kind of make me chuckle, especially afterward. I love my mom to death, and I would never give up being around her. She really is trying to be respectful of me--I think she just avoids learning more about trans people because that would make it more real. And because she is afraid to learn more, she says really silly stuff sometimes--but out of ignorance, not hate. And while ignorance is not an excuse for everything, it is understandable. Especially because I am pretty sure she is holding onto that ignorance out of a sense of desperation and loss. I love her endlessly, though we are nothing alike and drive each other nuts (I am exactly like my dad and nothing like my mom), and I am sure that she will come around in time. But in the meantime, sometimes I just feel the need to vent since I can't really say anything to her without her getting upset. So sometimes I joke about it or complain to friends and on forums outside my family so it doesn't affect her--but it's just venting, not the sort of intense pain that would make me want to sever a relationship with her. :)
Maybe it's true that as people get older they become less flexible in their views. I've heard this said (can't teach an old dog new tricks, I'm too old to change my ways now, and so on) and I'm starting to see the same sort of attitude in my own mother which - from my perspective - is bizarre and a bit amusing. I mean here was a self proclaimed progressive socialist-leaning woman who told me if I turned out to be her gay kid there'd never be a problem, telling me that I'm probably nuts and being influenced by the media, that because she herself once questioned her gender and decided she didn't need surgery, I shouldn't need it either.
I think it probably just becomes a bit harder for people when they get older - on the whole - to absorb changes and new ideas. Not everyone, but I've seen people change over time and become quite different people, so it sounds to me that your mother is at least trying. :)
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on April 22, 2016, 05:03:56 AM
I've heard this said (can't teach an old dog new tricks, I'm too old to change my ways now, and so on)
I'm living proof you can be old and accept change. If you don't life. just passes you by. I don't want to be 65 and only thinking of the hereafter. I've cheated death every day for 25 years and I want to do it for 25 more. I will always evolve.
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on April 21, 2016, 03:04:47 PM
I figure my mother wanted to raise a girl that could express as more masculine if she wanted to, because she was a feminist or whatever, not a child that was truly free to choose its gender expression. She doesn't think that's what she was doing but I suspect it. But paradoxically, she also treated me much as she does other men, even as a child. If I wanted help with something she would tell me to go figure out how to help myself, and she told me often the world was a Jack London style nightmare which would chew me up and spit me out unless I was able to be self-sufficient. Then she complained later when I failed to display gossipy behavior and kept most of my life under wraps and declared me boring. XD She told me she would always help me if I needed help but on the few occasions I did ask for it, I was chastised for doing so. Parents can be strange and difficult to understand. I'm sure they feel they were doing right but I do think it might be beyond some of them to accept their child as transgender, even just to accept their child as a free agent in control of their own life.
Your mother, like my mother, and many women of that generation, not to mention 2nd Wave Feminist thought itself, accepted the notion that parents and socialization created gender roles in society and even the child's sense of their gendered self. This is why parents were blamed for "making" their child gay or even trans, but it is also why old school feminist discourse doesn't believe that trans exists. In their worldview, gender is an entirely social and legal phenomenon (and any evidence otherwise is just more proof of the pervasive nature of patriarchy) and trans is a purely psychological phenomenon--IOW trans people are faking, lying, mentally ill, crazy, or confused.
Most feminists have abandoned such notions, except for radfems, who still embrace the old ideology based on outdated notions about the world. (Even non TERFs--TERFs just choose to be virulent haters about it.)
Our parents get stuck in the past with regard to us, their children. Think to when you were very young and fully dependent on your parents for everything. You never spent more facetime with them. Well, what year is that?
That's the year they're mentally stuck in with regards to you. Now, for other people's kids, they can be up to the minute about it.
My roommate's mom still calls her 'he' a lot, her main excuse for that is that she's old and its hard for her to change gears and keep her pronouns straight, in fact, once she said it would be like if my roommate started calling her mom George. My roommate passively aggressively started to mess with her by calling her George a few times after that, was funny.
So yeah, in other news if adults dont understand it well its one thing, but if they can accept your change openly as you be yourself without any anger towards you its much better. Trust me not everyone has the luxury of a clueless yet accepting parent
I do envy those who are still young enough for their parents to be concerned about their immediate welfare and who have always had better access via the internet to trans-related information. When I was younger (in the 80s) there was almost no information readily available.
My parents told me I shouldn't be getting so upset over getting called incorrect pronouns because there are worse things that they get told everyday by each other such as 'idiot' and '->-bleeped-<-'. Yeah, they think insults that they throw to each other like that is way worse than them accidentally saying "she/her" and I should stop getting upset over it.
Your parents don't get it. Getting upset over pronouns--it's dysphoria, really--is one of the main features of being trans. You can teach yourself not to get upset over "sticks and stones" (not saying this is easy or anything, but you can) but gender dysphoria never goes away.
I sucked it up for years and now I'm on psychiatric meds with no prospect so far of transitioning off of them. Okay? I don't enjoy living this way and I hope you don't have to either.