They had a lot of reasons, and none of them of course were me being trans. Looking back at the break-up email, they were being rather poisonous (they've been playing good cop/bad cop and bcc'ing my emails to each other -- not that I said anything I regret but wtf mate?), but it still hurts so bad I can't sleep.
Can't cry, either. I'm pretty upset... even on anti-androgens I can't quite get over the hump and really cry.
I said: "I'm the same person now I was when we met, and I'll continue to be the same person inside, even as the way I express myself changes. That's why this is so frustrating and scary and sad. I'm the same me, and I get why you're not comfortable around me anymore. But I'm the same me. Do you understand that, even a little bit?"
They replied: "You say that you don't want things to change -- that you're the same person. But I think if you look in the mirror, you'll realize that's disingenuous. If you didn't want people to treat you different, then what's the use in going through all of this?"
Never said I didn't want things to change. Only that I'm the same person in here. They're kicking the dog they brought home.
Posting here because these words have to go somewhere. This sucks. But I know some of you have it way worse. :(
'Close friends' do not say or do like that. If they do, then they are not friends and period.
barbie~~
There's this guy I know, and for the longest time I considered him one of my best friends, if not my actual closest friend. It sunk in at some point though that I wasn't his closest friend. Far from it, he's a friendly person and has lots of friends. I know he counted me as one of those but I don't think I ever factored as one of his closest, not by a long shot. We're still friends but I have a different perspective on that now. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that you may have considered them close friends but their action kind of demonstrate fairly clearly they don't see you in the same light. It's pretty horrible, and I'm really sorry it happened to you, they've treated you poorly. Time to reevaluate their friendship and hopefully find some other people who will treat you with some respect and understanding.
People can have a hard time thinking beyond stereotypes and even transphobia. So shock can buy a bit of leeway for first reactions but only so much.
It's possible with time and reflection they may come back and apologise (if they are truly your friends) but if not then you are certainly better off without them.
Better they blow up with a clean break than stick around with anything less than true acceptance.
In one way you will be the same person but in another you won't remain the same. We become better people as we learn about ourself, more relaxed and happier in life. They fear what you will become without knowing what you will become. Perhaps some day they will grow a little seeing the error in their ways and desire your friendship again but I can't promise you that. I am sorry this happened and I hope you meet new people who will accept you as you are.
Here are a few resources that might help explain:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208438.msg1847638.html#msg1847638
Some people also use the comparison with a twn ... they will be like their male/female twin ...
Well ... some people come around over time.
One advantage is it sets you free to explore new sides of yourself, without being held back by old images.
You can explore new sides of you, and look for people who may be even a better match ...
hugs
Quote from: barbie on April 27, 2016, 06:23:38 AM
'Close friends' do not say or do like that. If they do, then they are not friends and period.
barbie~~
This is worth repeating...true friends would never betray you nor abandon you.
'Dust off your shoes' and never look back. You will need to think about whether you had any intuition or hints that they were untrustworthy, and promise yourself to not dismiss those things in the future.
*hugs*
My own transition has been a good stress-test for my friends. If they stayed with me, they are true friends. If they didn't, good riddance, they weren't true friends in the first place. I'm happy to say that most have stayed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Take this as a test, they will come back if they are true friends that you can treasure through the entire transition and probably lifetime. If they don't, they probably wont be lifetime friends anyways. I hope they do come back and apologise, the action of BCC does seem a bit mean and bullying.
Do take care, and know that there will definitely be friends out there that treasure you and stick with you. I have lost some but gained so much more from the ones that stuck with me.
Hugs
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
They replied: "You say that you don't want things to change -- that you're the same person. But I think if you look in the mirror, you'll realize that's disingenuous. If you didn't want people to treat you different, then what's the use in going through all of this?"
I had something similar with my wife. She focused on the external appearance and not the much better person underneath. Luckily for me, she eventualy came around and things are much better now. While I think I understand the reaction of your friends, we humans are heavily influenced by visual cues, I don't think you have been disingenuous in any way, I think your friends have shown a complete lack of sympathy, empathy, compassion, understanding and friendship. If they had done any research or even listened to you, they would know why you put yourself through this. We all know here. I hope you find more loving friends in the near future and in the meantime there are a lot of great people here you can lean on.
Hugs
B
Thank you all for the sympathy. I'm a little stronger today than I was last night. At this point I don't think they're coming back to apologize, and I wouldn't really care to have them. Anyway, good-cop sent a follow-up email this morning and it was... bad.
The discussion of change is really interesting. Maybe you're right and there will be some difference, even though I'll still be myself in identity. But so far, anyway, the core is the same. For those of you who talk about changing, what changes have you noticed in your own inner being? It's so hard to imagine being substantially different.
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 02:08:28 PM
Thank you all for the sympathy. I'm a little stronger today than I was last night. At this point I don't think they're coming back to apologize, and I wouldn't really care to have them. Anyway, good-cop sent a follow-up email this morning and it was... bad.
The discussion of change is really interesting. Maybe you're right and there will be some difference, even though I'll still be myself in identity. But so far, anyway, the core is the same. For those of you who talk about changing, what changes have you noticed in your own inner being? It's so hard to imagine being substantially different.
Its possible people get more emotional.
Its also possible new interests appear ... showing a more caring and nurturing side.
And a few things have not been explored yet probably ... some fashion things ... etc ...
It can be a nice time to try out a few things. I'd say just don't overdo it ... and many people may have a second puberty, be a bit aware of it :)
hugs
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 02:08:28 PM
Thank you all for the sympathy. I'm a little stronger today than I was last night. At this point I don't think they're coming back to apologize, and I wouldn't really care to have them. Anyway, good-cop sent a follow-up email this morning and it was... bad.
The discussion of change is really interesting. Maybe you're right and there will be some difference, even though I'll still be myself in identity. But so far, anyway, the core is the same. For those of you who talk about changing, what changes have you noticed in your own inner being? It's so hard to imagine being substantially different.
That's a great question and I have posed it here in the past. Do we consider ourselves the same person after transition? Our answers are unique as we are truly individuals. I do not consider myself the same person. I have changed more than my appearance. My tastes and senses are wonderfully more alive while being more myself allows for greater confidence and a sense of well being. My political awareness and concepts of being a feminist are deeper and born of the experiences of living as a trans woman for years now. How i interact with people and institutions is very different now. I welcome change rather than fear it. Some of us talk about our past as a person who died. We talk about our "dead name" and our significant others reasonably mourn the loss of a husband, wife, sister or brother. We are all someones child. Hang on Meghan, your core principles are likely to remain consistent and true to your nature.
Meghan it always genuinely hurts to lose friends, but in the end when they don't support and understand you then they are not truly your friends anymore. In time, Friends that truly understand and except you will come along. I know that doesn't make up for those that get left behind, but as everyone matures and grows we tend to leave some friends from our pasts behind regardless of being trans or not. I'm so sorry that they were playing you in such away to be doing what they were doing. You are so much a stronger and better person though for having not said anything about that to them. Stay strong and remember your among friends now.I have lost family and friends along this journey. I can't say it doesn't hurt, but many of the new friends I have made have made much more meaningful friendships with me than those that I'm no longer friends with. Hang in there, it does get better. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 02:08:28 PM
The discussion of change is really interesting. Maybe you're right and there will be some difference, even though I'll still be myself in identity. But so far, anyway, the core is the same. For those of you who talk about changing, what changes have you noticed in your own inner being? It's so hard to imagine being substantially different.
I cant comment on the inner being. However, with the friends that I have opened up to, I am now much closer to them and displaying my real self rather than the shell they have been seeing. I do not have any issues in telling them what I think or unfortunately for them, getting all emotional on them. These are things I cannot display openly previously. I am still myself in identity, just willing to let them connect on a deeper level with me.
In my case, as I am not on HRT, probably I have been the same person, regardless of changes in my appearance.
My family members were initially embarrassed by my change, but now they accept it, whether they dislike it or not. No other option for them.
I have many friends, and I can say that 100% of them are now supportive of me. If something happens, then they come out to defend me, although I have never asked it.
Yes. My friends at first did not understand me well, having some arguments with me, but later they gradually accepted me. But nobody said like they will no longer meet me. Some of my friends were very thoughtful, understanding and accepting me, even though I did not say so much. They just figured out the status of my mind.
One woman who was in my neighborhood, said like your friends, and I have never met her again. I have no obligation to educate her regarding transgender or diversity. I am sure she will never apologize, as she is Catholic.
barbie~~
I think the biggest difference in me is not thinking about my problems all the time allows me to relate to other people better. I pay more attention to them and have a better understanding of how they feel. I have lost some of the machine like quality I had before and am more human. That change is due only to the fact that treatment has removed what was the largest problem in my life.
These all sound like good changes! I have to admit that I'm still often preoccupied with thinking about gender or shame instead of being 100% present for my friends, but then, I'm not even really part-time yet. Maybe it'll still happen.
I cried tonight, so there's a change. :)
It looks so simple when you look at me but remember I was 10 years in the closet, 8 years of therapy with the last 2.5 cross living and I have been post surgical 33 years. Yes you face a long road with many changes but I think your transition will be far faster than mine. You have to try not to be depressed when you look at us because we were where you were at one time. Soon you will be where we are now.
I hope things work out Meghan. The reality is that when we go through this we do change, at least to those around us. My closest friends who swore they would always be my friends have fallen away since the day I told them. On the other side of it though, many folks who I counted as acquaintances became much closer friends.
If you think of it that way then, it won't be that you lose your friends which seems so negative, but rather that as you appear to change, the people who are your friends changes.
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
They had a lot of reasons, and none of them of course were me being trans. Looking back at the break-up email, they were being rather poisonous (they've been playing good cop/bad cop and bcc'ing my emails to each other -- not that I said anything I regret but wtf mate?), but it still hurts so bad I can't sleep.
Can't cry, either. I'm pretty upset... even on anti-androgens I can't quite get over the hump and really cry.
I said: "I'm the same person now I was when we met, and I'll continue to be the same person inside, even as the way I express myself changes. That's why this is so frustrating and scary and sad. I'm the same me, and I get why you're not comfortable around me anymore. But I'm the same me. Do you understand that, even a little bit?"
They replied: "You say that you don't want things to change -- that you're the same person. But I think if you look in the mirror, you'll realize that's disingenuous. If you didn't want people to treat you different, then what's the use in going through all of this?"
Never said I didn't want things to change. Only that I'm the same person in here. They're kicking the dog they brought home.
Posting here because these words have to go somewhere. This sucks. But I know some of you have it way worse. :(
Iv'e lost a lot of people in my life for several reasons i understand that sort of pain and one of the most important things to do is give yourself time to heal and as much space as you're needing.
Some people just don't understand i wouldn't really blame anyone it's deferentially not your fault so don't blame you and on there end sure it was not nice however they just need someone to educate them and sometimes it takes somebody else in the world to get the point across to people who are being stubborn and not wanting to be accepting and that sucks. They lost a good friend they lost you because they didn't want to make a effort to understand by the sounds and that isn't fair. Yea, some people have had worse but your experience your pain means no less then anyone else's experiences or pain life isn't a challenge on who has it worse. Give yourself time, it'll be okay and everything will work out for the better maybe in the end you'll meet someone even better of a person even though at the moment i'm sure you're just wanting them and everything to go back to normal. Also Nope, you didn't say you didn't want to change however, not everyone understands the word change they see changing as a bran new person and can't cope. That is their loss, because you're not a new person and maybe in time they'll realize what they did wasn't okay. I wouldn't look back unless they do move on for you find someone more accepting and understanding and smile because you deserve to have good supportive friendships.
I wish you luck
and please know that you're a great person.
-If you ever need help or to vent send me a message i'd be happy to help-
I have been through lots of experiences of various responses / reactions to being trans and now to being on HRT and almost completely out (the exception being family).
When I outed myself to my sister, hoping for some support due to her many years in therapy dealing with her own issues with our family her negative reaction was a surprise and she told me I was sick, blaming our mother and contacting her my sis stopped just short of outing me but said some hurtful and damaging things. We no longer speak and that's now going on 16 years, I don't look back a lot and less so now that I'm 4 months on HRT. My sis did me intentional harm (and recognizing that she truly believes I was harming myself does not excuse her reaction) and I have no desire to put myself in the way of that again.
In the same time frame I was participated in a group therapy setting that was mostly positive. A recurring theme was the cis-gender women would remind me that simply dressing up doesn't make one female. Then one day I went to the group wearing makeup -- quite light, intended just to soften my features a bit. That particular day I was feeling quite down, that depression was back on me etc. One of the women commented that I looked full of light that day, more alive than usual and the others chimed in to agree.
I was shocked, saddened and a little angry. This was the first time I'd ever made myself up for group and as I said it wàs understated, it's something I'm prone to do -- if I'm feeling down I will do some femme things that make me feel better. Here were these women who'd been telling me it's not about appearance and the only change that day from 'normal' was I was less happy than usual and I'd used some makeup to move that appearance a bit towards feminine.
I told them how this felt -- to get a response that was so at odds with what they'd been projecting on me for a couple of years. The other amusing bit was that for many sessions after I would catch some participants checking me carefully to see if I was made up.
Of course I know that female involves a host of things, socialization etc and now I can begin to understand how my emotional landscape changes on hrt. That experience however taught me a lot about trusting my own instincts and recognizing that in many ways perception of gender is a real part of it.
Lastly and most recently I was meeting over difficulties in a lab that I work in. It was an emotional conversation for me and when I let that show and the boss if the lab who is also a close personal friend asked if my clearly somewhat fragile emotional star was "due to the medications I'm on".
I was shocked and angry that he would bring this up in a work context. There's absolutely no way he'd have ever asked a cis-gender woman if her time of month was a problem. Even more surprisingly when I brought this up yesterday to let him know it wasn't OK he got surprised and defensive, saying my medical condition was absolutely his business if it affected my ability to work in the lab. (I don't think this conversation is over as I really feel he overstepped some boundaries there.)
Bah, so there are some of my experiences of people who ought to be able to behave reasonably around transgender people just not getting it.
Fortunately these are for me the exceptions. I've been persistent and lucky for many years now in surrounding myself with people I can count on to be supportive and my first few months on HRT after 16 years of telling myself I'm a poor candidate for transition have been a big and positive step, mostly made easier by supporting friends.
Thanks so much, everyone.
Dena- It is overwhelming. I was on kind of a high before this happened -- wore a new skirt to therapy, got compliments, had some voice training successes... I'll make it. I'm just starting to think I can make this whole thing work.
ChrysC- Yes, it's about building my community back up, not about losses.
Midnightstar- That made me feel good, thank you. And thanks for offering your shoulder to cry on.
SadieBlake- Funny about your group! But the thing with your lab sounds scary... does your state have discrimination law that covers gender identity/expression? Funny how often people miss the point... whether he has the right to know about your medications or not, "you wouldn't ask a cis woman about her period" doesn't mean "yes I have a medical problem but you can't ask about it." Sheesh.
We are not going to play the "who has it worse," game. That would just bring more fuel to the fire.
I understand how you feel. I had lost many people in my life when coming out. Here is my words of advice to you: Friends are people who are meant to offer comfort and support when you are feeling down. Friends are supposed to lift you up, not bring you down. If they are not accepting of you being nonbinary/transgender, then they were never really your friends. Because friends are family, they are made to accept you no matter what. And if they are not accepting of who you are, then they don't deserve your trust and respect. Then what would be the point of having a friend like that? When they take from you but don't offer anything in return? That is not a true friend.
Yes, it does hurt when you lose them. You will get that sense of betrayal. In the future, though, it will make things better. As you would realize that there are better people who will respect who you are. No matter if you were trans, skinny, fat, black, white, gay, bi, or even an alien from outer space.
Quote from: MeghanMe on April 27, 2016, 10:51:12 PM
These all sound like good changes! I have to admit that I'm still often preoccupied with thinking about gender or shame instead of being 100% present for my friends, but then, I'm not even really part-time yet. Maybe it'll still happen.
I cried tonight, so there's a change. :)
I feel like the same me but I have changed. I am less irritable, I hardly ever snap at people now. I am non everything so it isn't hormones. Just clothes, long hair, I like to paint my nails and I'm beginnig to experiment with makeup. Oh, and breast forms sometimes. I'm only out to the people I live with. The only permanent physical change I'm likely to make is beard removal. Just being able to express my likes fully has made me a little different, but I don't think it is any more than the changes you feel when you realise something important for the first time.
This brings me to point 2. Shame. I hope the only thinking about it you are doing is telling yourself that it is absolutely NOT something you should feel about being trans. It was this realisation (I think) that made me different. I felt shame about what I wanted for years and hid it from others and denied it to myself. Doing this gets harder and harder as time goes on. Starting to shed the shame was a huge relief. I still have some, it isn't easy to let go of. I know I have no logical reason to feel it but I do anyway. People here have talked about internalised transphobia. As much as it bothers me to admit it, I must be harbouring some of that. It would be great to lose it completely, it would then be simple coming out to everyone. I have an odd feeling that it is coming out that will rid me of the shame which is a bit frightening.
I'm glad you seem to be feeling better. I have found the more I do the easier it gets. I've been dressing at home 100% for a year now. It felt awkward at first, exposing the real me to my wife and daughters. It feels easy and natural now, we all get on much better than before. Dress as much as you can, even if it is only in private, and it will seem more and more normal the more you do it.
P.S. for context, I identify as a mostly male non-binary. I think I'm just making up for lost time by wanting to present as femme as I do.
Hugs
B
Thanks for the perpsective, Vincent Johnson.
And BirlPower - I feel very much like you do about shame and internalized transphobia. They're definitely there. I don't want them. They make it hard to talk about this stuff, and they give people a weapon to use against us.
Heading out to games with other friends tonight. I'll dress up a little bit. Most of this group has seen, and reacted well, to this already. Wish me luck with the rest. :)