The antitrans bathroom bill issue is everywhere in the news. They have the talking heads on TV talking about it. I see Chuck Todd bringing on the Governor of North Carolina (Governor Peepee Police). Ted Cruz is interviewed all the time. No one seems to be able to ask one critical question. What are these so called pro life, bathroom bill promoters gonna do to protect the lives of the transgender people who are being attacked and murdered. Even if the reporters are not going to ask the question, how about bringing on a transgender person to show both sides of the issue. I really think we need a "Joe McCarthy moment." Someone needs to tell this governor, "You are no Christian sir. You are the one putting real lives in danger. Have you no shame?" I am no great fan of Target, but I will shop there now.
Moni
I couldn`t imagine anyone taking that responsibility up to themselves- being a face and a voice of transgender in this debate. Nobody rational wants to discuss this anymore, because anything you say won`t change their attitude. So why bother? Well...
I think it is important. If we don`t stand up for ourselves, those other people will take something from us- eventually maybe even dignity. Also, there are still many people who are not really informed or haven`t decided on where to stand on this issue. Yes, it`s a hot topic but that means tides can change very fast.
Anyway, this whole topic gives me a headache.
So many people have no clue as to what a trans person is. They think it's like a fetish.
Yes, we need to stand up for ourselves but demurely lest it is misconstrued.
I got pulled into a FB debate on this and stopped it by pointing out that not a single person in the discussion had ever met a trans person in a bathroom or really anywhere else. Seriously now, quit the fuss. Makes me have to go pee.
I've always thought that this debate is inherently stupid and hugely ironic. We ALREADY pee where we pee, and JUST NOW you've decided to throw sh** around. Especially considering that there has never been a rape committed by a trans person in a bathroom pretty much ever. It's Highly ironic.
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Even with the bathroom laws, I doubt that people have considered that there are trans people who pass as cis.
I've seen YouTube videos of people talking about how they'd always be able to tell someone was trans, then the interviewer explaining that they were trans themselves, much to the surprise of the interviewee.
It's obvious that the bill is being passed on deeply flawed logic and far outdated & incorrect stereotypes, and the ignorance is astounding.
Quote from: purplewuggybird on April 28, 2016, 09:00:46 AM
I've always thought that this debate is inherently stupid and hugely ironic. We ALREADY pee where we pee, and JUST NOW you've decided to throw sh** around. Especially considering that there has never been a rape committed by a trans person in a bathroom pretty much ever. It's Highly ironic.
If the rape argument is pulled up, it is much more likely that if a transwoman were to be in a bar or a club, the chances of a sexual assault or rape occurring is much more likely if there is a woman in a male's bathroom than if there is a woman in the women's restroom.
While I hate talking about statistics of stuff like this, it's scary that a woman will be forced to use a men's bathroom because she was assigned wrongly at birth, and vice versa with trans men.
This is all so depressingly familiar to me.
I grew up in South Africa during the Apartheid era; I was there during its fall and I remember the angst that this caused certain sub-sections of the white population, especially when public toilets became a hot-button topic. We used to have racially segregated toilets: there were white men's toilets & white women's toilets, and non-white men's toilets & non-white women's toilets. By law, you had to use the toilet that aligned with the race classification on your birth certificate and if a person of colour was found in one of the white facilities, they'd be arrested and imprisoned. People whose appearance was racially ambiguous were challenged by Security or the cops and they had to provide ID proving they were entitled to use the white facilities (obviously nobody cared about challenging people using the non-white facilities).
These laws were put in place to preserve the comfort of certain groups of white people who felt uncomfortable with doing anything intimate (like using a toilet or urinal) in the vicinity of someone who might be more talented at producing melanin. This segregation was scrapped with the end of Apartheid, and when that happened a whole bunch of people started bleating to the Media in a flat panic about what would happen to 'their' women when black women were allowed to go into the ladies' room with them. OMG, they might attack our women and children!!!1! They might molest them!! They'll kidnap our kids and chop them up for muti (traditional African medicine)!!!! :icon_yikes:
So you can imagine my exasperation when I see the same tired arguments being regurgitated yet again; it makes my eyes roll so hard that I feel like a human slot machine. The same tired rhetoric, the same lame arguments, the same mountains being made out of the same molehills. I hope these people are proud of themselves, because they're using the exact same arguments that were used to justify Apartheid.
You know what really happened when the toilets were desegregated in South Africa? Nothing, of course. People kept doing their business, the sky didn't fall down, Armageddon didn't happen and within a few months everything had calmed back down. And that's exactly what's going to happen in this case, too. But it's going to take quite a bit longer for the tide to turn in the States, because (unfortunately) the Religious Right in America is very well-organised (and well funded!) in a way that those particular South Africans simply weren't, so they're able to mobilise huge numbers of people to spread panic amongst the ill-informed and to get actual legislation passed.
To counter this, you'll need to do two things: 1) use whatever political means you have at your disposal to work on repealing such legislation and to make it impossible for it to happen again; 2) take part in grass-roots activism to demonstrate to the rest of the country that trans people use the same public spaces as everyone else (and have done for decades without them realising) so there's no need to panic.
South African public toilets only became normalised when honest, ordinary, everyday people of colour simply started strolling into the 'white' toilets, went about their business whilst minding their own business, and strolled back out again. When nothing bad actually happened, people started to calm down. And that'll happen too when trans people do the same thing. It's clearly begun with some high-profile people taking a stand, but it's important to keep up the momentum and that means everyday trans people will have to do whatever they can too. But you need to keep fighting the good fight and never give in: after all, Apartheid was so well-entrenched and supported that it lasted 46 years.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on April 28, 2016, 11:34:15 AM
This is all so depressingly familiar to me. But you need to keep fighting the good fight and never give in: after all, Apartheid was so well-entrenched and supported that it lasted 46 years.
Thank you for your international perspective. Yes the same tired arguments and fears are being exploited. I am old enough to recall the desegregation of schools and the repeal of laws that banned interracial marriage and so called anti sodomy laws. We might think anti government types would resist such intrusions in our private affairs but not when it comes to anything even remotely sexual.
Yes it is uncomfortable for some to accept that all of us have and expect the same rights to safe public accommodations. Someones discomfort with reality is not an excuse to discriminate and harm others.
Hate and fear have always been a tactic of the politically weak and morally corrupt. They know if they can stir up those emotions in people, then their others policies whether they be economic or whatever matter little.
Pick your targeted minority in history; and you can stir up some people to go along with it: Jews, Different Races, Communists, Gay people, Immigrants, Other religions, atheists, whatever. Then you can get money and power from that process. It is a simple process - hate and fear go in one side, money and power is delivered on the other side.
Those that claim to be pro-life are sometimes anything but that, because to truly love life, you have to love the living with a broad brush and that is rarely demonstrated by these groups.
The truth is that the so-called religious right is beginning its end game, the demographics are against it, membership in their churches is either shrinking or aging or both. As something spirals downward, it's behavior even gets more outlandish. The power it once held will not be given up easily particularly in places where it held a lot of power.
The fact that there are so many uninformed people seems like an opportunity. I think we do a disservice to ourselves if we don't try to factually inform people. I agree, the heck with the extremists. But why let them tell the story. (You know, the one they know nothing about, at least on this planet.) We should tell our own story. I am not an activist, but on a day by day, individual by individual basis, I want to be able to hold my head up high knowing that I tried to bring some people along on the idea of acceptance. Wow, I think I just realized I'm starting to go from a lifetime of shame to some serious pride here. We all deserve to be proud of ourselves. We don't deserve the psyche job the world has put on us.
Moni
I've had both my wife and my best friend try to convince me that this bathroom bill will only open up the avenue for perverts to spy on children. AND, that trans people need to use the bathroom that is associated with the birth on their birth certificate.
After voicing my opinion about it and standing my ground it's obvious to me that "Trans People" to them are grown white Transwomen who have a hard time passing. Because when I show them a picture of a Transman and say, "so you want him in the women's restroom?" They both said "No!" when I told them that he is a Transman they were speechless.
I ended both conversations by telling them that I gaurantee that they both have, at some point in time, been in a public bathroom with a Transperson and had no idea.
Boy...will they be surprised when I come out as Trans to them in a few months. LOL I wonder if they will change their opinion on it then.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 27, 2016, 09:32:38 PM
I see Chuck Todd bringing on the Governor of North Carolina (Governor Peepee Police). Ted Cruz is interviewed all the time. No one seems to be able to ask one critical question. What are these so called pro life, bathroom bill promoters gonna do to protect the lives of the transgender people who are being attacked and murdered.
There wouldn't be any meaningful answer to the question, because McCrory and Cruz couldn't care less if transgender people are attacked or murdered. Honestly, they don't think we have a right to exist at all. They would be perfectly happy if we were swept off the face of the earth. If that can't be achieved, they will settle for the next best thing: transgender people forced back deep in the closet, never to be seen or trouble society again.
Bathrooms and locker rooms and fitting rooms are just surface issues to McCrory and Cruz. The real issue is whether we have a right to exist and live our lives. McCrory and Cruz believe we don't. That's the program they're going to carry out if they are not stopped.
You are right April, exactly. My thought is that if this "journalist" is what he says he is, he should enlighten his audience by telling the whole story. The viewers theoretically are open to being influenced. Chuck Todd is just a herd mentality, lazy, pseudo journalist by not challenging these politicians with the facts or bringing on someone who will bring the facts to light. Instead of reporting, he took sides. (Like they say on Game of Thrones, "Shame, shame, shame...")
Moni
Yes, this is clearly a ham handed attempt to erase us from cultural awareness and participation. An attempt at public exclusion and to keep us home and securely in the closet. Defining the borders of normal, judging who is acceptable and what is too scary to share with children. The truth of love will prevail. Just hang on.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on April 28, 2016, 11:34:15 AM
This is all so depressingly familiar to me.
I grew up in South Africa during the Apartheid era; I was there during its fall and I remember the angst that this caused certain sub-sections of the white population, especially when public toilets became a hot-button topic. We used to have racially segregated toilets: there were white men's toilets & white women's toilets, and non-white men's toilets & non-white women's toilets. By law, you had to use the toilet that aligned with the race classification on your birth certificate and if a person of colour was found in one of the white facilities, they'd be arrested and imprisoned. People whose appearance was racially ambiguous were challenged by Security or the cops and they had to provide ID proving they were entitled to use the white facilities (obviously nobody cared about challenging people using the non-white facilities).
These laws were put in place to preserve the comfort of certain groups of white people who felt uncomfortable with doing anything intimate (like using a toilet or urinal) in the vicinity of someone who might be more talented at producing melanin. This segregation was scrapped with the end of Apartheid, and when that happened a whole bunch of people started bleating to the Media in a flat panic about what would happen to 'their' women when black women were allowed to go into the ladies' room with them. OMG, they might attack our women and children!!!1! They might molest them!! They'll kidnap our kids and chop them up for muti (traditional African medicine)!!!! :icon_yikes:
So you can imagine my exasperation when I see the same tired arguments being regurgitated yet again; it makes my eyes roll so hard that I feel like a human slot machine. The same tired rhetoric, the same lame arguments, the same mountains being made out of the same molehills. I hope these people are proud of themselves, because they're using the exact same arguments that were used to justify Apartheid.
You know what really happened when the toilets were desegregated in South Africa? Nothing, of course. People kept doing their business, the sky didn't fall down, Armageddon didn't happen and within a few months everything had calmed back down. And that's exactly what's going to happen in this case, too. But it's going to take quite a bit longer for the tide to turn in the States, because (unfortunately) the Religious Right in America is very well-organised (and well funded!) in a way that those particular South Africans simply weren't, so they're able to mobilise huge numbers of people to spread panic amongst the ill-informed and to get actual legislation passed.
To counter this, you'll need to do two things: 1) use whatever political means you have at your disposal to work on repealing such legislation and to make it impossible for it to happen again; 2) take part in grass-roots activism to demonstrate to the rest of the country that trans people use the same public spaces as everyone else (and have done for decades without them realising) so there's no need to panic.
South African public toilets only became normalised when honest, ordinary, everyday people of colour simply started strolling into the 'white' toilets, went about their business whilst minding their own business, and strolled back out again. When nothing bad actually happened, people started to calm down. And that'll happen too when trans people do the same thing. It's clearly begun with some high-profile people taking a stand, but it's important to keep up the momentum and that means everyday trans people will have to do whatever they can too. But you need to keep fighting the good fight and never give in: after all, Apartheid was so well-entrenched and supported that it lasted 46 years.
what a wonderful post !!!
I am American, but I refuse to go to the USA right now because getting arrested for using the correct female toilet restroom they might put me in a male prison acing rape. I will commit suicide by hanging m
Everytime this is brought up on the news my parents always bring up anti-trans remarks to the point it scares me.
Our responses to these hateful attempts at exclusion are like us, all over the map. Some will get in their face, stand up and yes, be arrested like Mara Keisling and the folks from the National Center for Transgender Equality.
To the extent it impacts our personal world and heaps more scorn, unwanted attention or worse it is immoral and unworthy of thoughtful and caring people. We will turn this around and the hateful discriminators will once again be tossed in the dustbin of bad history.
In the meanwhile we must each decide for ourselves if this is going to keep us hidden and fearful or if this is an opportunity to face down the bullies and be visible.
Please choose to remain strong rather than to give in and stay home. Self harm and voluntary exclusion only furthers their sad and limited agenda.
It is happening in my life too and I will remain visible and out there even if it is unnerving at best.
Quote from: Tessa James on April 29, 2016, 12:05:06 PM
Our responses to these hateful attempts at exclusion are like us, all over the map. Some will get in their face, stand up and yes, be arrested like Mara Keisling and the folks from the National Center for Transgender Equality.
To the extent it impacts our personal world and heaps more scorn, unwanted attention or worse it is immoral and unworthy of thoughtful and caring people. We will turn this around and the hateful discriminators will once again be tossed in the dustbin of bad history.
In the meanwhile we must each decide for ourselves if this is going to keep us hidden and fearful or if this is an opportunity to face down the bullies and be visible.
Please choose to remain strong rather than to give in and stay home. Self harm and voluntary exclusion only furthers their sad and limited agenda.
It is happening in my life too and I will remain visible and out there even if it is unnerving at best.
Well said Tessa. The other thing to understand is this whole idiocy tends to be localized to the places were social conservatives hold power. There are vast areas of this country where they hold far less power and the laws and practices are already in place to protect transgender people. Could they conceivably be rolled back? sure, but highly unlikely. The votes, public opinion and the legislatures don't exist that support the foolishness.
This is not something that means we should not be vigilant and active in helping our brothers and sisters everywhere, but it is important to note. This is not a time to be fearful, it is a time to be proud, be visible and let people know that we are pretty awesome folks that they should be friends with.
Just like people that lived during other big times of change, civil rights for women, racial equality, etc. We have the privilege to be living in one of those amazing times of change. Look around and enjoy it.
Quote from: EmilyRyan on April 29, 2016, 12:40:57 AM
Everytime this is brought up on the news my parents always bring up anti-trans remarks to the point it scares me.
Welcome to the club :/
Most of the arguments we hear about the anti-trans bathroom bills are based on ignorance. Most people have no idea what it means to be transgender and much of their so called "knowledge" comes from other ignorant people.
I got into a friendly argument / discussion via email with an older fellow recently about bathroom bills and the comments he made demonstrated he didn't have a clue. I pointed out how such laws would be unenforceable without everyone carrying a birth certificate to show before entering a bathroom.
It is our job to try to "educate" these people. It will be a slow process. I doubt that I convinced the person I was having the discussion with. He never replied to my last email. I just hope I may have said something that might cause him to stop and think. That is part of the problem. People don't stop and think things through.
Social pressure is a powerful thing. Look at the backlash North Carolina is getting. Ten years ago, this wouldn't have happened. The more people we get to understand, the less socially acceptable it will be for the haters. It is also harder to hate a group of people when you know and like someone in that group.
Moni