I'm a relatively new member here, and it's been just a few days since my first therapy session last week. It was a great session where I was able to get some good feedback on some of the many confusing, and sometimes conflicting, thoughts and feelings I'd had in recent months. I have a quick question based on something came to mind this morning when I woke up. I hope to get some initial feedback from this community before I bring it up with my therapist at our next meeting.
It is possible for MtF transgender feelings to stem from a belief that our significant other does not live up to some physical "fantasy" or ideal?
In other words, might a man develop transgender feelings because he subconsciously wants to physically and/or mentally become the "ideal" woman he wishes he could be with? And if so, is this a "good" reason for transition?
I don't think so. Although I would make for a hot girlfriend!
I don't think I was thinking of being a hot woman at 4 years old. I don't even think my twin Greta Garbo was thinking of being a hot woman either at 4.
Quote from: stephaniec on May 08, 2016, 08:48:34 PM
I don't think I was thinking of being a hot woman at 4 years old.
And as someone in their early 30s, that leaves me questioning the "authenticity" (for lack of a better term) of my recently developing feelings. Were they laying dormant all along and somehow triggered? Or are these feelings something other than transgender...?
probably the best thing to do is to be very open with your therapist when you have that session. We all walk different paths.
I have a theory that dysphoria is like a retrovirus that can wake up at any time.
Quote from: KelliHu on May 08, 2016, 08:52:14 PM
And as someone in their early 30s, that leaves me questioning the "authenticity" (for lack of a better term) of my recently developing feelings. Were they laying dormant all along and somehow triggered? Or are these feelings something other than transgender...?
To be honest, most trans people that choose to undergo medical transition have always had atleast an inkling they were trans, well at least I did, but I spent years in denial trying to be a guy since according to my penis I was one; and yet the feeling that my body did not match my true gender was always there, but I just didn't know how to make things right until the Internet came about in the late 90s. And to answer your question, I was with some very beautiful women before I transitioned, and I never considered that I could be as pretty as any of them, and while I do love myself, I'm not into the thought of
loving myself, however, I would not have transitioned if I wouldn't have been able to become somewhat passable and attractive.
Quote from: kittenpower on May 08, 2016, 11:34:20 PM
To be honest, most trans people that choose to undergo medical transition have always had atleast an inkling they were trans, well at least I did, but I spent years in denial trying to be a guy since according to my penis I was one; and yet the feeling that my body did not match my true gender was always there, but I just didn't know how to make things right until the Internet came about in the late 90s. And to answer your question, I was with some very beautiful women before I transitioned, and I never considered that I could be as pretty as any of them, and while I do love myself, I'm not into the thought of loving myself, however, I would not have transitioned if I wouldn't have been able to become somewhat passable and attractive.
Thanks for the response. And I agree that it makes me hesitant to pursue transition being that I spent so much of my life unaware of these feelings.
I am not into the thought of
loving myself either. Rather, I am currently happily with someone who does not necessarily match every item on my fantasy checklist. Is it possible that I am trying to inject that fantasy into my relationship by actually
becoming my fantasy that I can see every day?
there is another reality too. The media portrays success in terms of physical beauty. Advertisement are geared to physical beauty. From day one we are inundated with the idea of success as physical beauty. If you gorgeous you can make a lot of money as a model or actor. It's pretty easy to see the notion of beauty playing out in society. Reality is tainted by physical aspects.
For me, I've always wanted to be beautiful and wished upon stars... I would absolutely love to be considered attractive and/or desirable, but only time will truly tell. So for me? mmm... no
Quote from: HeatherR on May 09, 2016, 12:47:50 AM
For me, I've always wanted to be beautiful and wished upon stars... I would absolutely love to be considered attractive and/or desirable, but only time will truly tell. So for me? mmm... no
Ummmmmmmm.... have you looked at your avatar lately? check! ;)
Thank you, that is very sweet of you to say, but my body outs me with a scary level of consistency.
Quote from: kittenpower on May 08, 2016, 11:34:20 PM
To be honest, most trans people that choose to undergo medical transition have always had atleast an inkling they were trans, well at least I did, but I spent years in denial trying to be a guy since according to my penis I was one; and yet the feeling that my body did not match my true gender was always there, but I just didn't know how to make things right until the Internet came about in the late 90s. And to answer your question, I was with some very beautiful women before I transitioned, and I never considered that I could be as pretty as any of them, and while I do love myself, I'm not into the thought of loving myself, however, I would not have transitioned if I wouldn't have been able to become somewhat passable and attractive.
I've not yet begun to transition, but I've been in the same boat, the SS Denial... I've always had these feelings, and just shoved them down and hid the crossdressing, etc. Always thought they'd go away in time, but 40 yrs have gone by and they've not, so this year, I will be getting on HRT.
I always knew i was feminine and that there was something wrong when I attempted to act too masculine.
Still, i think many people particularly maybe older than about 35 (and those that live in non-open cultures) had no idea what the feelings were exactly and how to address them. The information on what was called GID and is now GD, was very limited and information and exposure to transgender people was mixed up with a lot of other things and not very representative even then.
Quote from: RobynD on May 09, 2016, 11:04:09 AM
I always knew i was feminine and that there was something wrong when I attempted to act too masculine.
Still, i think many people particularly maybe older than about 35 (and those that live in non-open cultures) had no idea what the feelings were exactly and how to address them. The information on what was called GID and is now GD, was very limited and information and exposure to transgender people was mixed up with a lot of other things and not very representative even then.
I'm 41... and I've been heavily involved in IT for many years, and the information that I came across for years pointed to me having Gender Dysphoria, but I never knew anything about transitioning. There were no support sites, and it mainly seemed to be a porno fetish. I wish I knew 20 years ago what I know now... it might have changed things. But mostly I just felt that it was a condition to live with, and hide my embarrassing "fetishes" as it were...
I'm STILL working through years of integrated shame as I become more comfortable expressing my femininity.
When I was 9 or 10 I wished I could be a girl I didn't care if I would be the ugliest girl in school as long as I was a girl.
Back in the late 70's I heard about about women like Renee Richards and Wendy Carlos and wanted to do what they had done. I even had over 30K dollars in the bank in 1984 that I had some vague plan doing it, but I was unsure how to proceed and I was worried about losing my family they were all I had since I had long since estranged all my friends because it was so much stress putting on the act and I really was not interested in the same things they were anyway.
So now while I may not be pretty at least I am seen as the woman I am now.
Stephie
Quote from: KelliHu on May 08, 2016, 08:26:51 PMIt is possible for MtF transgender feelings to stem from a belief that our significant other does not live up to some physical "fantasy" or ideal?
In other words, might a man develop transgender feelings because he subconsciously wants to physically and/or mentally become the "ideal" woman he wishes he could be with? And if so, is this a "good" reason for transition?
Interesting question and it might well be that we do this for this reason or only some do but even so, so what? The desire remains and we still want to transition so what's the point of understanding it at all? Anyone who seeks to understand it is usually keen on finding a "cure" to gender dysphoria but so far, the most effective one is transition.
There is no denying that my sexuality and gender identity are all wrapped up and tangled together. I am a happier, more fulfilled, and better person now. No matter the motivation behind it, transitioning was the right move for me. I just came out at 33, but I wished to be a girl from a very young age. It just wasn't until I discovered there was something that I could actually DO about it that I started acting on it. I had previously just suppressed those feelings because I thought there was nothing I could do. So I found the right woman for me, married, settled down, bought a house, had a baby, and then BAMPH, Caitlyn Jenner goes public and my world crumbles around me with possibilities and what-if's...
Quote from: HeatherR on May 09, 2016, 10:08:55 AM
Thank you, that is very sweet of you to say, but my body outs me with a scary level of consistency.
;D
Quote from: KayXo on May 09, 2016, 03:45:13 PM
Interesting question and it might well be that we do this for this reason or only some do but even so, so what? The desire remains and we still want to transition so what's the point of understanding it at all? Anyone who seeks to understand it is usually keen on finding a "cure" to gender dysphoria but so far, the most effective one is transition.
I think the reason why someone seeks to transition matters because if someone makes physical irreversible changes based on a fantasy, there is a high probability that in time they will regret their decision.
Quote from: kittenpower on May 09, 2016, 09:33:06 PM
I think the reason why someone seeks to transition matters because if someone makes physical irreversible changes based on a fantasy, there is a high probability that in time they will regret their decision.
I would tend to agree with this...as soon as I came upon this latest revelation that my feelings might be based on a fantasy, the feelings have not been as strong as they were before...
I brought up this very question to my wife, and she thought it was interesting...we concluded that what I consider my "ideal" body type in a woman is *exactly* what I'd look like if I were to transition into a woman.
I used to ask myself that. Am I unhappy because I don't fit my idea of how I should look when presenting as female? Is the source of my jealousy towards other women the fact that I learn to be in bed with them rather than be like them?
But then I remember having that desire to be a girl from a young age and the accompanying disappointment when I saw my reflection. I remember that strong desire to be feminine at other times, and only pushing those feelings out because guys were ridiculed for being feminine (not just by their peers either). I remember at one point I preferred hanging around with girls, which changed because (again) it's "not what boys do". I remember the struggles I went through when I first tried to socialise with boys. I don't have those struggles nowadays and tend to get on with most people, but those early signs seem to say something.
And now, I remember how content I feel when I present as female and how much that shows in my photos.
*shrug*
I know how you feel, i concluded that i just love myself more than i love others.
Quote from: Lili on May 10, 2016, 11:58:07 PM
I know how you feel, i concluded that i just love myself more than i love others.
I don't know that it's about loving myself...but that I love the fantasy of my "ideal" body type in a woman so much that I feel compelled to become that woman myself since my wife does not match that body type...
This is kind of an odd thing. I have wondered this before, but I am definitely a lot more myself in the last 6 months being full time. I think I may be a little bit asexual because I don't feel a very strong attraction to anyone physically. In the past I didn't know I could actually become a woman. I had always thought it was a fantasy that I just had to keep to myself. I have always had crushes here and there with women so attraction was never something that could use to confirm my feelings about my body. And now I found if I spend enough time with a man I can develop feelings for them, but it isn't something that starts very obvious, another reason I feel like I might be a bit asexual. I don't know if I am a very normal case, but also not being interested in any relationships for over 15 years probably backs up my point of view. I just hope things get simpler once I start hrt next month.
i think if you're having any form of serious transition thoughts you probably aren't cis and thats alright. And if you are cis then no worries at least you opened yourself up in ways most people wouldnt even dare to.
about thread topic, I think it's simply deep seated jealously (due to dyshoria) manifesting itself as attraction. At least thats the way I see it when I think back to my early years. I guess I learned it was jealousy after girls got to do things I wasn't allowed to do because I was a "boy". Essentially teachers would shame me in the middle of class, in front of everyone for behaving "like a girl" I was just being myself you know. Its also when I learned I had to be something else, someone else to survive my public school education..lol hey jokes on you my kindergarten teachers. I' am a girl, well a woman now I guess... >:-)
I'm not a girl not yet a woman lol
<3 britney 8)
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 11, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
i think if you're having any form of serious transition thoughts you probably aren't cis and thats alright. And if you are cis then no worries at least you opened yourself up in ways most people wouldnt even dare to.
about thread topic, I think it's simply deep seated jealously (due to dyshoria) manifesting itself as attraction. At least thats the way I see it when I think back to my early years. I guess I learned it was jealousy after girls got to do things I wasn't allowed to do because I was a "boy". Essentially teachers would shame me in the middle of class, in front of everyone for behaving "like a girl" I was just being myself you know. Its also when I learned I had to be something else, someone else to survive my public school education..lol hey jokes on you my kindergarten teachers. I' am a girl, well a woman now I guess... >:-)
I'm not a girl not yet a woman lol
<3 britney 8)
Britney,
I think you raise some very good points.
I also relate to your final comment, I think. However, I bet I think about it a little differently just because where I am in my journey.
Thanks,
Joanna
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 11, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
i think if you're having any form of serious transition thoughts you probably aren't cis and thats alright. And if you are cis then no worries at least you opened yourself up in ways most people wouldnt even dare to.
about thread topic, I think it's simply deep seated jealously (due to dyshoria) manifesting itself as attraction. At least thats the way I see it when I think back to my early years. I guess I learned it was jealousy after girls got to do things I wasn't allowed to do because I was a "boy". Essentially teachers would shame me in the middle of class, in front of everyone for behaving "like a girl" I was just being myself you know. Its also when I learned I had to be something else, someone else to survive my public school education..lol hey jokes on you my kindergarten teachers. I' am a girl, well a woman now I guess... >:-)
I'm not a girl not yet a woman lol
<3 britney 8)
Thanks for the response. I would agree that having any thoughts at all of transition means something...
And for me, the jealousy seems to be purely physical in nature. I've never felt attractive as a man, so my theory is that the jealousy stems from feeling that women are attractive while I'm not, so to be attractive, I need to be a woman that matches my "ideal." When I brought it up with my therapist last week, she asked if I'd live my life any different as a woman. I responded, no, I'd live my life exactly how I'm living it now as a guy. I'm sure there are feminine behaviors I'm exhibiting which I'm completely unaware of, but I'd probably be the girl that acts very much like a guy.
So when I think about transition, I think about it from the purely physical standpoint...
Quote from: KelliHu on May 08, 2016, 08:26:51 PM
It is possible for MtF transgender feelings to stem from a belief that our significant other does not live up to some physical "fantasy" or ideal?
In other words, might a man develop transgender feelings because he subconsciously wants to physically and/or mentally become the "ideal" woman he wishes he could be with? And if so, is this a "good" reason for transition?
Although I knew myself at a very young age of three, I absolutely had these feelings when I reached puberty. I often worried that my feelings had become a fetish. I'd get all excited when I dressed up. It was terribly confusing. When I started my RLT, those feelings that it might be a fetish went away completely. I became elated that I wasn't a freak, at least in that way. I became much more comfortable with myself. So, I've been who I am for more than thirty years and I've never looked back or had regrets.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 11, 2016, 12:03:24 PM
Although I knew myself at a very young age of three, I absolutely had these feelings when I reached puberty. I often worried that my feelings had become a fetish. I'd get all excited when I dressed up. It was terribly confusing. When I started my RLT, those feelings that it might be a fetish went away completely. I became elated that I wasn't a freak, at least in that way. I became much more comfortable with myself. So, I've been who I am for more than thirty years and I've never looked back or had regrets.
Amen
When I was a kid I would toy with the idea of being a girl and had fun doing girly things with my sister we were always close best friends. Then when I was 9 I started wearing pagan witchy jewelry as I really love jewelry and always have. When I was 9 I wore a dress and really liked it but got nervous and never did it again in case I was caught lol. Then my big brother started getting me working out when I was 10..... :( >:( he would make me do push up after push up pull ups and lift weights so I got really buff and started feeling manly at only 12 and puberty hit with all that t hitting me. I started feeling way masculine for at least 5 years a lot of my teens. I was benching 150lbs in 6th grade and 180lbs in ninth and running 5:25 miles. I started feeling gender confused again in my early 20's and by the time I was 26 I came to absolutely realize I was a woman at heart. Benn on hormones for 1 year now and have never loved my body more! :angel:
The long journey of self discovery is soooo hard especially in retrospect when you are buried to the depths in regrets. :(
:police:
This thread has been locked for evaluation. ' ->-bleeped-<-' is a theory that is not allowed on Susan's.
It is defined here with some explanation of it's controversy.
https://www.susans.org/wiki/ ->-bleeped-<-
:police:
Sincerely,
Joanna