Stayed in hospital over Easter (seizures, epilepsy blah) wake up next morning my hand that had the canula and wrist are sore. Informed nurse and doctor but thought nothing of it, because sore body parts and new bursies I expect.
Two weeks later still sore see a Dr. do a x-ray. Not broken wrap it, ice it rest it, see me in two weeks of still sore.
Back again ultrasound lets see if it's sprained. Technician(?) Wait here YOU have to go back to the Dr. IMMEDIATELY with the results. My pain was a blood clot
Dr. sends me to hospital, explaining what has happened.
Hospital informs me as it is superficial I don't need to worry just going to be in pain, and if they knew at the time they could of given me something to help. Sends me away, telling me to watch out that the are doesn't becom swollen.
Dr. gives me advice on how to remove the boood clot and that we may need to look at surgery if we can't remove it.
Now the lesson
Visited my neuro this week she looks at my hand then tells me.
"Gypsy you take oral HRT this can happen occasionally." A painful way for me to find out
that's a bummer
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 12, 2016, 09:27:44 AM
Now the lesson
Visited my neuro this week she looks at my hand then tells me.
"Gypsy you take oral HRT this can happen occasionally." A painful way for me to find out
It is possible to take bioidentical estrogen or estrogen valerate sublingually.
If the liver encounters estrogen in the digestive tract it raises clotting factors.
With sublingual intake much of this is avoided.
It may be a good idea to spread the daily dose over a few small doses to keep levels more steady.
With sublingulal intake levels rise fast and drop hours later. This also might affect mood.
There are alternative routes of administration ...
patches for example, but for some they are not as effective.
Talk it through with your doc.
hugs
What kind of oral are you taking? Some of it is not safe.
Quote from: AnonyMs on May 12, 2016, 10:03:42 AM
What kind of oral are you taking? Some of it is not safe.
Yes, some synthetic forms have grave side effects.
Nowadays bioidentical estrogen or estrogen valerate should be readily available.
You might talk about it with your doc.
hugs
Sorry you had the painful path for this. Will your provider keep you on HRT?
The risk of blood clots developing while we are on HRT is often part of the informed consent we sign off on. Mine was four pages long and I had to initial every possible item. My provider also informed me that if I did develop blood clots or a thrombus she would cease my prescription for estradiol. That still scares me!
Keeping active is one preventive measure.
Trust you will heal and recover soon :D
Quote from: Tessa James on May 12, 2016, 10:12:06 AM
The risk of blood clots developing while we are on HRT is often part of the informed consent we sign off on. Mine was four pages long and I had to initial every possible item. My provider also informed me that if I did develop blood clots or a thrombus she would cease my prescription for estradiol. That still scares me!
This is mainly for oral estrogen.
Some doctors rather use patches instead, or injections.
hugs
My provider has prescribed the patches for this old girl from the start but her conservative approach is unyielding...so far ;)
Quote from: Tessa James on May 12, 2016, 10:22:28 AM
My provider has prescribed the patches for this old girl from the start but her conservative approach is unyielding...so far ;)
Lol the way of application plays a big role in this.
The liver has estrogen sensors for arteries concerning the digestive tract.
So if estrogen is swallowed the liver raises clotting factors.
Witch sublingual intake its much less.
And of course much more so with patches.
A factor could be smoking ... it makes small blodd vessels shrink.
So quitting might be a good idea.
hugs
Quote from: Tessa James on May 12, 2016, 10:12:06 AM
Sorry you had the painful path for this. Will your provider keep you on HRT?
The risk of blood clots developing while we are on HRT is often part of the informed consent we sign off on. Mine was four pages long and I had to initial every possible item. My provider also informed me that if I did develop blood clots or a thrombus she would cease my prescription for estradiol. That still scares me!
Keeping active is one preventive measure.
Trust you will heal and recover soon :D
She is :) as it's superficial and this is my first ever clot in a family with no history of clots. I hope so to I can sort of use my hand at home where I can ask for help if something is too heavy. At work I'm stuck working virtually one handed.
I spoke with my endo a couple of weeks ago. Out of 70% of the 3500 trans patients on implants none have had problems with dvt who did not have a Pre-existing condition, and even those that did have a condition the number with any dvt was tiny. I don't think it rules out HRT.
He has seen a fair number having problems with other forms, non-bio identical I think, that were not caused by a pre existing condition. Ie it's caused by the wrong type of HRT. It seems many doctors don't know what they are doing (my words not his).
ethinyloestradiol Has a risk of dvt in cis-women and trans women often take it in much higher doses to transition, hence far higher risk. Its not safe, but some doctors prescribe it as HRT anyway. Some people diy with it, which is really bad.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-05/women-prescribed-banned-contraceptive-pill/5136370
I don't recall every detail, but that's the gist of it.
Edit: my endo is happy with quite high blood levels, and it's great. And safe...
Ask your doctor about taking a baby aspirin every day. My doctor wanted me to start taking one every day when I had a blood clot to help prevent them from occurring.
Quote from: Eva Marie on May 12, 2016, 12:03:41 PM
Ask your doctor about taking a baby aspirin every day. My doctor wanted me to start taking one every day when I had a blood clot to help prevent them from occurring.
My endo said not too. Aspirin is not without risk, and overall it not worth it.
Quote from: AnonyMs on May 12, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
My endo said not too. Aspirin is not without risk, and overall it not worth it.
There may be a few natural possibilities:
http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html
If in doubt talk it through with your doc ...
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on May 12, 2016, 10:29:06 AM
Lol the way of application plays a big role in this.
The liver has estrogen sensors for arteries concerning the digestive tract.
So if estrogen is swallowed the liver raises clotting factors.
Witch sublingual intake its much less.
And of course much more so with patches.
A factor could be smoking ... it makes small blodd vessels shrink.
So quitting might be a good idea.
I agree that smoking introduces huge health risks for anyone. That's why I quit years ago and actively work to reduce use of that toxic product. ;D
hugs
Quote from: Eva Marie on May 12, 2016, 12:03:41 PM
Ask your doctor about taking a baby aspirin every day. My doctor wanted me to start taking one every day when I had a blood clot to help prevent them from occurring.
That, heat pack, massage and rubbing in a sports gel to try and make the blood clot dissappear. Don't like that we're coming into winter, the colder it gets more "OUCH" the hand gets
I'm glad you're generally OK, Gypsy. Clots are pretty nasty business so it sounds like you got off relatively "lightly"...although I'm sure it doesn't sound like it. My father was lucky not to lose his whole foot this time last year to a blood clot, still lost two toes though and had a month or more in hospital and rehab. I never saw it, but apparently his foot turned very dark blue. Yikes! Anyway, it seems you are on the mend, get well soon. Think about talking to your endo about a different delivery method for your estrogen. I have implants and they work a treat!
Ooh ouch sorry about your father Grace.
Yeah on the mend(ish) now we know what it is, we are can treat it. (Or have me annoy supergirl with my endless has my hand/wrist swollen questions).
Implants have thought about them, but considering I can't cross the harbour when friends go see Dr. H for a refill due to fear. I think I might be sticking to the pills. If this ever happens again this may be something I will have to try and get over. (It's just a little knick right)
Hi Gypsy,
I think Dr H's implants are a *lot* less trouble than that blood clot! I understand your being fearful, however it is very quick and lasts for six months!
Wishing you a full recovery!
Ros
Hi Gypsy,
So sorry to hear about your woes, but I am also very glad the clot was in your hand and not somewhere else such as the brain or lungs!!!
If you can't get implants have you considered patches? I have now gone on them after years of implants and I find then no problem at all, and they are very safe.
Glad you are OK!!
I'm curious to what kind of estrogen you were taking orally and if you were taking anything else at the time, other medications that increase risk of clots?
Quote from: AnonyMs on May 12, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
My endo said not too. Aspirin is not without risk, and overall it not worth it.
I beg to differ, but every cardiologist I have ever met recommends at least a baby aspirin Mine said to take the regular strength. 25 years later. No problems.
Quote from: Cindy on May 13, 2016, 02:12:09 AM
If you can't get implants have you considered patches? I have now gone on them after years of implants and I find then no problem at all, and they are very safe.
Patches may be a better alternative. Any "unusual" cons that you can think of with patches. Such as injections would probably not be suitable for someone who has a bad phobia of needles and other sharp things near them.
Quote from: KayXo on May 13, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
I'm curious to what kind of estrogen you were taking orally and if you were taking anything else at the time, other medications that increase risk of clots?
Just my usual bag of pills
Progynova
Androcour
Keppra
Vimpat
Zonevram
that night
Phenotoen via drip
Medazalim
And some aspirin for a headache
Quote from: DawnOday on May 13, 2016, 02:13:46 PM
I beg to differ, but every cardiologist I have ever met recommends at least a baby aspirin Mine said to take the regular strength. 25 years later. No problems.
If only we could let them argue it out.
Quote from: AnonyMs on May 12, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
My endo said not too. Aspirin is not without risk, and overall it not worth it.
Ah, the Aspirin controversy. From what I've read the risks linked to Aspirin are very low. Also you only need to take between 70-100mg daily to get the benefits. There are also types of Aspirin that are much easier on the stomach. I think low-dose Aspirin is a good way to go, but research all the facts yourself and don't take my word for it.
Quote from: Serverlan on May 14, 2016, 07:31:10 AM
Ah, the Aspirin controversy. From what I've read the risks linked to Aspirin are very low. Also you only need to take between 70-100mg daily to get the benefits. There are also types of Aspirin that are much easier on the stomach. I think low-dose Aspirin is a good way to go, but research all the facts yourself and don't take my word for it.
Its possible that he knows I don't have any clotting disorders, and I'm on bio-identical implants which don't have problems, so there's no real risk on that side of things. So asprin risk, however small it is, is not worth it. I don't know what he'd say if you had a clotting disorder, and I very much doubt he'd prescribe any kind of dangerous HRT.
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 13, 2016, 12:09:34 AM
Implants have thought about them, but considering I can't cross the harbour when friends go see Dr. H for a refill due to fear. I think I might be sticking to the pills. If this ever happens again this may be something I will have to try and get over. (It's just a little knick right)
Yeah, just a little nick. He gives a local anaesthetic first. I wouldn't say it doesn't hurt, there's a little bit of pain...and it feels sore for a day or so after the local wears off. But these days he doesn't need to stitch it up afterwards, that's how small the incision is.
Quote from: AnonyMs on May 14, 2016, 07:34:27 AM
Its possible that he knows I don't have any clotting disorders, and I'm on bio-identical implants which don't have problems, so there's no real risk on that side of things. So asprin risk, however small it is, is not worth it. I don't know what he'd say if you had a clotting disorder, and I very much doubt he'd prescribe any kind of dangerous HRT.
The first thing my endo did was send me away for a heap of tests, including my risk for thrombosis, so you may well be right about that.
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 13, 2016, 12:09:34 AM
Implants have thought about them, but considering I can't cross the harbour when friends go see Dr. H for a refill due to fear. I think I might be sticking to the pills. If this ever happens again this may be something I will have to try and get over. (It's just a little knick right)
I didn't quite notice what you said there before. If you're in Sydney and not seeing Dr Hayes I think you should
really really try to. He's got thousands of trans patients, and has significant experience with clotting problems (I didn't post it before but I spoke to him recently about it). Given what you've just experienced I think you're taking an unnecessary risk not seeing him, as there's no one else in Sydney remotely as qualified in trans medicine. I very much doubt there's many in the rest or the world either (I don't in general care for doctors, but Dr Hayes impresses the hell out of me).
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207756.msg1843224.html#msg1843224
I have something of a needle phobia, and I love implants. You lie down on the table and he gives you a local anesthetic injection (which stings for me, but I'm alone in that apparently), and he does the implant which is absolutely painless. Its nothing to be concerned about, and that's from someone who gets dizzy from a blood test (I have to lie down for quite awhile so I don't feint).
You can forget taking estrogen tablets for perhaps 6 to 12 months after that, and I've got really high estrogen levels. It feels fantastic. He also does electrolysis with nitrous oxide gas.
Quote from: DawnOday on May 13, 2016, 02:13:46 PM
I beg to differ, but every cardiologist I have ever met recommends at least a baby aspirin Mine said to take the regular strength. 25 years later. No problems.
There is a risk of ulcers. My mom got that from aspirin and she almost died.
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 14, 2016, 06:10:16 AMinjections would probably not be suitable for someone who has a bad phobia of needles and other sharp things near them.
I had such a phobia and I now inject myself. You can get over it, I'm proof of that and it was soooo worth it! :)
Quote from: Serverlan on May 14, 2016, 08:07:46 AM
The first thing my endo did was send me away for a heap of tests, including my risk for thrombosis, so you may well be right about that.
The risk of thrombosis on bio-identical estrogen is small and when taken non-orally, negligible, based on studies and observations. Half the world population is on estrogen. I have levels in the range of 1,000-4,000 pg/ml, inject myself estradiol. My clotting times are normal.
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 14, 2016, 08:01:59 AM
Yeah, just a little nick. He gives a local anaesthetic first. I wouldn't say it doesn't hurt, there's a little bit of pain...and it feels sore for a day or so after the local wears off. But these days he doesn't need to stitch it up afterwards, that's how small the incision is.
I felt a bit conned, particularly as he had described it as a 'surgical procedure'.
It was a small sting for the needle, a microscopic cut that barely even bled, and on I was on my way in about 5 minutes with my new ovaries implanted !