I don't why this is happening now I have been out at work for a year and half with no problems. This morning I went over to a co-workers bench to give them some test data he looked up at me and said " what do need sir" I asked to please not to call me that to which he responded "what would you like me to call you?" I said you can call me ma'am , Stephanie or Steph, he said "no" to which I said would you like me to show you my drivers license he said in a very belligerent tone "I don't care" I sighed and gave him the data and walked away I didn't want it to escalate any further. I talked with our HR person about what happened or HR person is someone I came out to a few years ago when we both worked for a different company, she has always been very supportive. I was very upset by this as work had always been a place I felt safe, I told HR not to take any action on it right now as I didn't want to upset things at work, as I was too upset to think clearly I was in tears when I was talking with her. I am going to talk with her tomorrow about what action to take.
The place I work has under twenty people and we have all worked together for years. I really don't want this to get ugly and divisive but he has done that. All this happened this morning and I am still upset by it, I just cant see a good outcome in this. I dont want him to lose his job and I don't want to take legal action, but it may come to that. We are such a small group that I am afraid its going to be very divisive. Even it does get resolved without that happening it will still be there in the background, why the hell did he do this? I never wanted it to be this way I hate confrontation.
he chose his path and obviously he knows the consequences , so whatever his reasons it's not your fault and you have an absolute legal right for your own human dignity. He's an adult and responsible knowingly for his actions.
Quote from: stephaniec on May 24, 2016, 10:17:37 PM
he chose his path and obviously he knows the consequences , so whatever his reasons it's not your fault and you have an absolute legal right for your own human dignity. He's an adult and responsible knowingly for his actions.
I live in California so yes the law is on my side, I would would like to find an amicable solution though I don't think it will end that way. I know he has a wife and kids and its not their fault that he did this and they could be adversely affected by the outcome. Yet I can't let this go as it will only get worse if I do.
I think this is beyond your ability to fix. Seeing your feelings, I would suggest you have a talk with HR and tell them you would like to give him another chance. HR should explain the facts of life to him and warn him that he is on probation. Then for the next few days, you should keep your distance giving him time to think it over.
He should be made to understand that he doesn't need to be friends with you as this is a business relationship. He only needs to be civil with you and work with you when required.
It may not solve the problem but it will be his decision where he wants to go with this and your hands will be clean.
That is absolutely disgusting and completely unacceptable in a workplace. You may feel guilty but if you don't nip it in the bud and make an example of it, it's not going to help other trans people in the workplace. I know you would feel bad for him if he lost his job, but I ask would you feel bad if he went on to abuse other trans people? It must be stomped out - so other transphobic people get the message too. If we let things slide it only makes the future more difficult.
Quote from: stephaniec on May 24, 2016, 10:17:37 PM
he chose his path and obviously he knows the consequences , so whatever his reasons it's not your fault and you have an absolute legal right for your own human dignity. He's an adult and responsible knowingly for his actions.
EXACTLY!
Petty, rude and childish behaviour isn't usually considered professional, why should it be allowed in this case? What would happen if your cis coworkers started calling each other names? Workplace bullying is workplace bullying, don't let people pretend it's ' just their opinion'.
He has chosen the mountain he wants to die on. Let him face whatever consequences that result. His actions are not your doing and you shouldn't feel any guilt for whatever happens.
Sapere Aude
I am going to have HR talk with him today. It really seems that people are treating me differently since all this restroom nonsense flared up.
yea, it's weird ,we didn't really exist until some politician decided humanity would be better off without us. I mean I'm 64 and it took at least 64 years for someone to notice that a transgender has the same need to pee as everyone else.
I talked to my friend in HR today. What I have decided to do is talk with my manger when he gets back from a trade show tomorrow. I want to have a talk with my manager HR and the co-worker together, I am really trying to find a way to work through this that will correct his behavior without it getting out of control. I don't care if he uses any pronouns, I have a name he can use it. There are only 16 people where I work and we have all known each other for years which makes this harder. I know it may seem I am being too nice to to this guy, but its just how I am.
It really doesn't seem like you're being too nice to me. I've worked in small companies like that and an issue like that runs through the rumor mill as fast as it would in a small town. I think it's a good decision to discuss it with HR, management, and him at the same time. He may feel like nothing's going to happen to him. After that discussion it should be pretty clear to him that he's on thin ice.
I have a couple coworkers that give me the evil eye when they see me, but they still use my name and treat me like any other coworker to get the job done. What happens when I'm not there? Who knows. I don't even care.
Quote from: Stevie on May 25, 2016, 08:37:40 PM
I talked to my friend in HR today. What I have decided to do is talk with my manger when he gets back from a trade show tomorrow. I want to have a talk with my manager HR and the co-worker together, I am really trying to find a way to work through this that will correct his behavior without it getting out of control. I don't care if he uses any pronouns, I have a name he can use it. There are only 16 people where I work and we have all known each other for years which makes this harder. I know it may seem I am being too nice to to this guy, but its just how I am.
Hi Steph,
I think you are doing the right thing by organising a full sit down.
I employ approx. the same number of people and when one on one contact does not work then it is best to get all the affected parties together.
Doing nothing is not an option as it means you have accepted what has happened and in my experience this is when the escalation happens.
Staying calm, civil and professional is always the best way of getting a good outcome. If this other person loses their cool or adds to their already shaky position then that is their problem. You have a right to work in a work place without fear of bullying or feeling intimidated.
I wish you all the best and look forward to hearing the outcome.
Cheers
Sue
He knows you are transgender and knows calling you sir upsets you. Sometimes people say things due to family problems or just a bad day . If this is the first time then make sure it's the last time. Sitting down with him and your manager is what you should do. I'm the boss of my company, no one dares say anything as I have made it clear that they will be terminated.
I did not become a lawyer because I wanted to "be a lawyer." I got picked on so much as a child that by the time I finished college I knew the only way I was ever going to have a decent life was if I really knew how to hurt people. And that was living as a small man constantly trying to butch up and hide his "feminine side."
One thing I learned by the seventh grade was that bullies are like lions going after a herd of antelope. Show them the horns, and they slink off and look for easier prey. And if you use the horns and gore one of them bloody, the rest of them learn the lesson and they all leave you alone.
The sad truth is, after transition, I see just as many battles in my future as I have had in the past.
Just my opinion, but if you want everyone at work back to behaving themselves, you need to get legal and put a hurt on this guy.
My friend in HR had a medical emergency in her family and had to leave, and she is our entire HR dept. My manger wont be here tomorrow either and my co-worker left early for the long weekend. Looks like we will not be able talk till Tuesday I think that is too long to let it go.
Most of the cis people I have talked to about it think I am over reacting and say I have to see it from their perspective and how hard it is for them to get it right since they have known me so long, I have to explain to them there is a big difference between a mistake and what he did. What they fail to understand is I spent 50 years of my life trying to live by their perspective and it nearly killed me. I am a very empathetic and I think some people perceive that as a weakness to be used against me.
Steph
You are exactly right. He willfully committed a wrong and then reinforced it. He deserves the negative consequences that come.
Sounds like your co worker needs a whooping. Best of luck to you, and Im really sorry you have to go through this. I think for your sake you should show this guy no mercy.
What may also be a good idea if you're concerned about this potentially becoming a larger issue with all the bathroom nonsense going on, is ask HR if they will conduct a diversity/inclusivity training session with the whole staff (not necessarily focused just on trans folks, could include other types of identity like race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, etc. - there are plenty of workshop ideas out there that include everything like that). It shows that management wants to foster a positive working community and that disrespect is not tolerated among coworkers.
He's a grown man who made his choice, he should have to bear the consequences of it. My worry would be if your sit down goes poorly and he decides to mouth off to other coworkers. I think doing some kind of office-wide training to preempt that kind of behavior would be a good move.
Quote from: FTMax on May 26, 2016, 06:03:26 PM
What may also be a good idea if you're concerned about this potentially becoming a larger issue with all the bathroom nonsense going on, is ask HR if they will conduct a diversity/inclusivity training session with the whole staff (not necessarily focused just on trans folks, could include other types of identity like race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, etc. - there are plenty of workshop ideas out there that include everything like that). It shows that management wants to foster a positive working community and that disrespect is not tolerated among coworkers.
He's a grown man who made his choice, he should have to bear the consequences of it. My worry would be if your sit down goes poorly and he decides to mouth off to other coworkers. I think doing some kind of office-wide training to preempt that kind of behaviour would be a good move.
Hi Steph,
While I agree with training to help things further down the track, the issue your co worker created needs to be addressed.
If this person nuts off or tries to make things worse then they will go through a process that could end up in them not being employed. That will be their choice. You will probably never get along with this person on a personal level but they need to be professional in the work place and if they cant they need to move on.
You are not overreacting at all as this is a personal attack. Since your other co workers are not in your position they will never understand.
Enjoy your long weekend, don't let your thoughts affect your time off and worry about this next week.
Unfortunately, our issue (living transgender) is now front and center of the political races. Politics in this country is something that people can't even talk about now without hurt feelings happening. I think we are going to see a lot more of this. It is an easy thing to focus people's anger at. You never had an issue with this guy before and now ... boom! I bet that is where this guy's head is at. I hope you deal with this situation in a way that is best for you. Sorry you are going through it.
Moni
Quote from: Amato on May 26, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Sounds like your co worker needs a whooping. Best of luck to you, and Im really sorry you have to go through this. I think for your sake you should show this guy no mercy.
That just goes against my nature. I am not a religious person but I always tend to turn the other cheek, just don't slap it or this kitty will show her claws.
Quote from: FTMax on May 26, 2016, 06:03:26 PM
What may also be a good idea if you're concerned about this potentially becoming a larger issue with all the bathroom nonsense going on, is ask HR if they will conduct a diversity/inclusivity training session with the whole staff (not necessarily focused just on trans folks, could include other types of identity like race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, etc. - there are plenty of workshop ideas out there that include everything like that). It shows that management wants to foster a positive working community and that disrespect is not tolerated among coworkers.
He's a grown man who made his choice, he should have to bear the consequences of it. My worry would be if your sit down goes poorly and he decides to mouth off to other coworkers. I think doing some kind of office-wide training to preempt that kind of behavior would be a good move.
They had a training session after I officially came out, unless they can get someone to do it for free I don't think its possible.
He willfully disrespected you. If the company allows it to stand they tacitly endorse it and it will happen again.
Sapere Aude
There has been some excellent advice in your responses, thank you everyone.
Quote from: Deborah on May 26, 2016, 07:26:57 PM
He willfully disrespected you. If the company allows it to stand they tacitly endorse it and it will happen again.
Sapere Aude
I really think getting together to talk with the HR and my manger will be enough to correct his behavior. If that fails other measures will be taken.
Quote from: Stevie on May 26, 2016, 07:31:51 PM
I really think getting together to talk with the HR and my manger will be enough to correct his behavior. If that fails other measures will be taken.
Good on you Steph. Stay strong. [emoji12]
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I hope everything works out for you. People of his type have been posting on the internet that we have a "mental illness" and argue that they will not "indulge" our "sickness." He was making a poltical point and if you dont face it strongly, others so inclined, but hiding it will be emboldened. I dont think you have to go for blood, but just make it clear that you do not want to be insulted. Good luck!!
I had a hard time writing this as I know many will disagree with how I am handling it. I transitioned to be happier living as who I am, not become bitter and resentful toward the world.
I decided to just let this go this time. Why would I do that? I will try to explain as convoluted as my logic may seem. The place where I work we have all known each other for years we are also a small company. I have worked with this man for years never had a problem with him . Early in my transition before I came out officially I was gradually presenting more female as I lost weight, he came up and asked if I was happier like this I replied yes and he said that it showed. So he has displayed some emotional capacity.
What good would come of doing something punitive to him? Will he suddenly see the error of his ways and treat trans people with respect?
Doubtful what I think the reaction would be is to get angry about how trans people are forcing their agenda ( btw what agenda? I'm just trying to live) on him and he would then spread that hate with righteous indignation. I have not treated him any differently since the incident. I have always been helpful and kind to everyone, that continues last week I went in over the holiday weekend to help test some stuff so he could spend the holiday with his family.
I know he knows what he said was wrong and that HR is aware of it, he sees me talking to my friend in HR everyday.
I feel that it may be possible to get him to see that we are not something to feared, and that knowing a trans person was a positive experience that he might share with others. I know this may seem a weak response to this and some of you think this would never happen.
Of course this gets all thrown out the window if he says something again.
Quote from: Stevie on May 26, 2016, 04:11:39 PM
Most of the cis people I have talked to about it think I am over reacting and say I have to see it from their perspective and how hard it is for them to get it right since they have known me so long...
Well, they would say that. Try misgendering them and see how they like it.
Quote from: Stevie on June 04, 2016, 02:54:36 AM
I had a hard time writing this as I know many will disagree with how I am handling it.
You have to handle it however you see best to.
A bit over a year ago I had a horrid experience (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=188177.0) with a women's only gym... I was going to write a complaint, then I wasn't, then I was, then I wasn't, then by the time I did too much time had passed so I dropped it. Would doing something have done anything positive? Hard to say. I feel I should have and that I should have acted sooner. A lot of cis gender people really need to be called out on their small minded, arrogant BS, just like homophobes had to be, sexists misogynists had to be, racists had to be...
Quote from: Stevie on June 04, 2016, 02:54:36 AM
I had a hard time writing this as I know many will disagree with how I am handling it. I transitioned to be happier living as who I am, not become bitter and resentful toward the world.
I decided to just let this go this time. Why would I do that? I will try to explain as convoluted as my logic may seem. The place where I work we have all known each other for years we are also a small company. I have worked with this man for years never had a problem with him . Early in my transition before I came out officially I was gradually presenting more female as I lost weight, he came up and asked if I was happier like this I replied yes and he said that it showed. So he has displayed some emotional capacity.
What good would come of doing something punitive to him? Will he suddenly see the error of his ways and treat trans people with respect?
Doubtful what I think the reaction would be is to get angry about how trans people are forcing their agenda ( btw what agenda? I'm just trying to live) on him and he would then spread that hate with righteous indignation. I have not treated him any differently since the incident. I have always been helpful and kind to everyone, that continues last week I went in over the holiday weekend to help test some stuff so he could spend the holiday with his family.
I know he knows what he said was wrong and that HR is aware of it, he sees me talking to my friend in HR everyday.
I feel that it may be possible to get him to see that we are not something to feared, and that knowing a trans person was a positive experience that he might share with others. I know this may seem a weak response to this and some of you think this would never happen.
Of course this gets all thrown out the window if he says something again.
Hi Steph, none of us has the right to judge you or anyone else. You posted your experience here to gain replies to help you understand your position and go forward direction.
You are a strong person and you have made a decision based on input from us and your own experience.
Good on you for being you.
Look out your workmate if there is another indiscretion.
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Sitting behind my keyboard I would like to imagine myself unleashing hell on that guy. In reality, knowing myself, I probably would have handled it in exactly the same way. So, good for you. :-)
Sapere Aude
If I was in the same situation, I probably would have handled it the same as well. In my experience with one on one conflicts, it's amazing how much can resolved over a coffee (or a beer). A simple low stress conversation can reveal the real reasons behind the situation.
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Thank you all, your help and understanding is greatly appreciated.
Love ya all
Steph
Quote from: Stevie on May 26, 2016, 04:11:39 PM
Most of the cis people I have talked to about it think I am over reacting and say I have to see it from their perspective and how hard it is for them to get it right since they have known me so long, I have to explain to them there is a big difference between a mistake and what he did. What they fail to understand is I spent 50 years of my life trying to live by their perspective and it nearly killed me. I am a very empathetic and I think some people perceive that as a weakness to be used against me.
Steph
Look they are just trying to ineptly peacekeep but the action is misplaced. Unless you are misrepresenting the interaction with your coworker, he did not make an accidental slipup, he deliberately went out of his way to repeatedly disrespect you. I mean what skin is it off his nose to just address you by your name? None, that's what. That wasn't a mistake, and your cis coworkers should not be trying to convince you that it was.
Quote from: Stevie on May 25, 2016, 09:08:10 AM
I am going to have HR talk with him today. It really seems that people are treating me differently since all this restroom nonsense flared up.
Better to nip it in the bud now, rather than wait and force HR into the position of having to fire half the crew.
Let them make one good, burned-at-the-stake example, and everyone else will pull their heads out of their backsides.
Better sooner than later, imho.
You are not responsible for his family, he is.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on June 04, 2016, 03:57:18 PM
Better to nip it in the bud now, rather than wait and force HR into the position of having to fire half the crew.
Let them make one good, burned-at-the-stake example, and everyone else will pull their heads out of their backsides.
Better sooner than later, imho.
You are not responsible for his family, he is.
My sentiments exactly.
All I can say is good luck. I hope you know what your doing. I have a very strong feeling he will take advantage of this kindness to hurt you, but only time will tell now.
It's your situation, you have to handle it how you know best.
I can't say I would do it that way. I had a coworker who told me flat out she wasn't going to use correct pronouns. I told her that I'm not going to put up with her bullying. I have rights. I would report her. Since then she's ignored me, but that's just fine by me. I'm not taking any crap off people at work should it arise, and I don't have to.
Quote from: Maria77 on May 27, 2016, 01:35:38 AM
I hope everything works out for you. People of his type have been posting on the internet that we have a "mental illness" and argue that they will not "indulge" our "sickness."
It's interesting that people say this, but at the same time, some people's stubbornness to not accept a transperson and be as obstructive as they can at every turn also suggests a mental malady on their part.
"I won't call an apple an orange!" I hear plenty, but it's really a political statement as you say that just doesn't need to be taken to such childish lengths. People need to leave trans people be if they're law abiding and just doing their job. What happened to the freedom to pursue happiness as long as you're not hurting someone else.
Hi Steph,
Thanks for sharing your story, as painful as it is. This site is of course very bias on one side and what is needed is perspective from his side.
Give me a sec...
Nope wait...ummmm
What if he is really a nice guy and was just having a bad day and snapped at you? Yeah..
Nope that won't fly either. People can have bad days but he did the equivalent of calling a African American the Nword.... And we know that is sooooo uncool you never never do that riiiiiight?
I understand and respect that you want harmony in the workplace but by dropping this you have tacitly reinforced bigotry in your workplace. I know we all can't be Joan of Arc but if you at least get HR to record a complaint it will help you, when You have to deal with the player ground bully again. Sorry to be so negatively prophetic
Quote from: TC on June 05, 2016, 03:04:43 PMI understand and respect that you want harmony in the workplace but by dropping this you have tacitly reinforced bigotry in your workplace. I know we all can't be Joan of Arc but if you at least get HR to record a complaint it will help you, when You have to deal with the player ground bully again. Sorry to be so negatively prophetic
I tend to agree. Nonetheless I have complete respect for Steph, these situations can cause serious anxiety.
Update on situation at work. There has not been another incident so that's good. However we found out this week that my company is going to close the site I work at after July. Now I need to find work in an industry were almost everyone in this area knows me as well as the guy I had issues with. I am somewhat concerned that I will have difficulty finding employment now. People know what I can do technically but from what I have found about 1/3 of people have some negativity toward trans people. All it takes is one person in the hiring chain to feel uncomfortable about trans people and you probably will not get hired. This guy is well connected with people in the industry, I do know most of them as well, but in the past I was very quiet and reclusive. I avoided doing anything with them away from work it was usually guy stuff I had no real interest in and only had enough knowledge about for small talk at work, It was too stressful to keep up the appearance of being one of the guys. I am thinking of just getting out of this line of work, I do have some strong allies but I am not sure that will be enough.
Another thing that sucks about this as the day before this announcement I talked with my health care provider about my coverage for GCS and was told the surgery would only cost me 600 dollars, don't think I can get that done in a month and a half.
Steph
Quote from: Stevie on June 10, 2016, 02:48:07 PM
Update on situation at work. There has not been another incident so that's good. However we found out this week that my company is going to close the site I work at after July. Now I need to find work in an industry were almost everyone in this area knows me as well as the guy I had issues with. I am somewhat concerned that I will have difficulty finding employment now. People know what I can do technically but from what I have found about 1/3 of people have some negativity toward trans people. All it takes is one person in the hiring chain to feel uncomfortable about trans people and you probably will not get hired. This guy is well connected with people in the industry, I do know most of them as well, but in the past I was very quiet and reclusive. I avoided doing anything with them away from work it was usually guy stuff I had no real interest in and only had enough knowledge about for small talk at work, It was too stressful to keep up the appearance of being one of the guys. I am thinking of just getting out of this line of work, I do have some strong allies but I am not sure that will be enough.
Another thing that sucks about this as the day before this announcement I talked with my health care provider about my coverage for GCS and was told the surgery would only cost me 600 dollars, don't I can get that done in a month and a half.
Steph
Hi Steph,
Employment is always about attributes. It seems you do your job really well and have great history. In my humble opinion, you will find work anywhere Just make sure you leave the hang up of being trans at home and be the confident woman you are when presenting at interviews. You go girl. We believe in YOU.
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