Hey everybody, first off, sorry if this is a naive or misguided question; please let me know.
Anyways, I've read in several places that a good way to tell if you do indeed want to be MTF or FTM is by going on hormones and seeing if that makes you feel better, happier, more yourself.
Is this a reasonable way to try and figure things out? If it is, how would I be able to obtain the hormones? From what I've read, people typically have to visit a therapist who has to diagnose them with GID (or whatever it's called), and only after that will they be prescribed hormones. Obviously, in my situation, that could be a bit of a catch 22. :P
I'm assuming these things vary depending on where one lives, but are there any general procedures that are followed? I live in the USA.
Hi Popa,
Going on HRT can be defining, but it may not. In my case, I had a very positive reaction to estrogen and anti-androgens, and it helped convince me I was going in the right direction. In fact, it convinced me I would never be happy going back to being male. But it's not that way for everyone, and that's why a therapist can help.
Depending on where you live, it may be possible for you to obtain hormones via informed consent at an LGBT clinic or through a trans-friendly GP or endocrinologist.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: popa910 on June 05, 2016, 03:43:40 AM
. . . a naive or misguided question
Very easy, thx in part to 'Obummer
riding the wave and compared to non-internet days ages ago. You list your general world location . . . been signed up here 'bout a month been reading,searching OP's posts?
Susan's is
The Best. All answers sought are here.
Therapy and HRT combined are a good way to figure your self out. Therapy helps remove the brush that accumulates around being transgender so you get a clear look at the issue while HRT will help with the depression cause by the testosterone. Each one by it's self isn't as effective as both combined.
As for the question are you transgender, you wouldn't be asking the question if you weren't. The only question remaining is what do you want to do about it.
Quote from: Dena on June 05, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
[...]while HRT will help with the depression cause by the testosterone[...]
My lack of clarity stems in part from the fact that I've not really experienced any depression. While I may have noticed a slightly less happy and...bubbly (for lack of a better word) mood, I don't think I can yet consider even mild depression. And even this may be attributable to the difficult course load at university and/or my apprehension of some of the world's and humanity's more unsavory aspects.
Furthermore, I've never really felt dysphoric. I've occasionally wondered what it would feel like to be a woman, especially in the past 1 or 2 months I've been questioning my gender identity, and I typically like the thought of it, but I'm not repulsed by my body. I've worked hard to get into great shape, and I am reluctant at the thought of giving even some of that fitness up. Also, it's quite convenient to pee standing up. :P I'm thinking that it might be possible that I'm a bit genderfluid.
Also, for what it's worth, I've found myself wishing I could definitively determine that I'm transgender, because: 1) I often like knowing things about myself with certainty and 2) I'm curious. I love exploring, learning new things, and gaining new experiences. It's difficult to dissociate my curiosity-based excitement from any genuine gender-identity-based desires for being transgender. Although at the same time, I realize that even a more curiosity-based wish may be somewhat telling, as I don't think most cis-gender men would even consider that as a possibility.
Quote from: Dena on June 05, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
As for the question are you transgender, you wouldn't be asking the question if you weren't. The only question remaining is what do you want to do about it.
I've heard people say this before, but I haven't yet convinced myself that I wouldn't be content just being a "man in touch with his feminine side". I plan on experimenting with things in the near future to figure this out.
Thanks Dena for your response! I know it may seem like I'm disagreeing with it, but that's how I figure things out: I ask people for advice, and often my thoughts on it help me figure out what I want. :P
I don't know if you explored your first post (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,209269.msg1854534.html#msg1854534) where I gave you some links to look at but they are the starting point of exploring yourself. Next there are two flavors of dysphoria. The first is the one you hear about all the time where people are uncomfortable with some or all of their body. The other one, the one I had was being uncomfortable with my role in society. I could exist in the male role and play the part but the depression was pretty constant and tended not to spike over something. Yes, I stood up to pee until I started RLE and I decided to make it as real as possible.
If you live with depression long enough it can start to feel normal and it gets worst over time. I knew at 13 and the longer I lived with it, the worst it got. It started out as somewhat of an exciting though but over time the depression of not being what I wanted to be became worst.
Only you can say for sure but gender fluid really seems to have major identity switches so far you haven't describe those. As you mentioned fluid, I am going to leave you with an additional set of links to explore.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,202966.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201219.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196073.0.html
Dena, I think I must've overlooked those somehow, so thank you! I'm grateful you took the time to look back to that post.
I don't have time to read through each entire thread now, but they all look quite promising and applicable, so I'll be sure to read them some time soon.
And a think a good way to describe the "dysphoria" (I still don't quite think I can call it that) that I'm having is: Having dysphoria for most people (at least, this is how it seems to me), and subsequently transitioning, is like a light bulb that, when switched on, removes the darkness (i.e.: dysphoria) of a room, thus making it brighter. For me, what I imagine a transition would be like is a light bulb that simply provides light (of course making the room brighter in this way).
I.e.: For others, transitioning seems to remove a negative, making one at peace with oneself. For me, I think the process wouldn't remove any negatives, but may possibly add some positives, in some way or another.
I hope that's not confusing, although I suspect it may be (I don't think like most people a lot of the time :P ), but I think that subtle analogy is about the best way I can relate my feelings and thoughts about all this at this point.
Why call it a trial? I say begin HRT and then stop if you don't like it.
I have never felt more calm and sure of myself since beginning HRT. It's like my brain is finally in sync with my body. I communicate more effectively and I rarely get flustered - which was a daily occurrence previously.
See how you go. You can always stop at any time, right?
In the USA it can be very easy to get on HRT if you really want to, but I'm not sure its such a good idea if its just curiosity. Whats going to happen if you like it and can't stop? Being trans is a hard road for most people, and you'll have gone from having no problems to possibly lots of them.
If you're trans taking HRT is life changing, but I've often wished I'd never known. I did have depression and didn't realize it. I'd just gotten used to it and only noticed when it got really bad.
If you think you might be trans then sure its a great thing, and the sooner you find out the better in many ways. A good gender therapist is usually the recommended first step to help you understand yourself.
One of the risks with HRT is sterility. There's no guidelines that I know of that say how long you can safely take it and retain fertility. There's a matter of luck involved.
I would really give this one a thought. HRT is not something that you should be dabbing into out of your curiosity. Please make sure that you are "aware" that it may have some lasting impacts on you physically and mentally. Regardless if it's low dose. I say go through the process of therapy and find a suitable endo to prescribe it.
I know some people are so against medical professionals gate keeping HRT but it's there to protect some people that may not fully understand it's impact on your body.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Ellement_of_Freedom for the support! And thanks April_TO and AnonyMs for the words of caution. I wasn't really aware that there are permanent impacts, both physical and mental.
And to be clear, when I talk about my curiosity, it's not like I'm just thinking of doing this solely for the experience. I am confident that I don't quite fit all the way down at the male end of the gender spectrum, but I'm not sure where I really land. I'm also sure that I don't fit all the way at the female end of the spectrum. I might be right in the middle, I might be 25% F and 75% M, I might be 75% F and 25% M, or something else! :P
What I do mean when I talk about my curiosity is that I'm unsure how much it contributes to my position on the spectrum, and specifically, to shifting me more towards the female end. I know it's not the whole or the primary contribution, but I just haven't yet been able to figure out how much weight it has.
Good luck with your decision! Sounds like you need to do some soul searching. Just remember, at the end of the day, being on a small dosage of HRT for less than 3 months or so isn't going to leave you with any detrimental permanent effects if you decide to go off it.
HRT may not immediately answer all your questions, but if you feel you might be transgender I would suggest finding a therapist and see if he/she thinks you should try HRT.
I can only speak from my experience. I certainly had some transgender characteristics for years and eventually knew that I had to try HRT. Within about a week of HRT, I began to feel normal, like I was "cured." But this new normal for me was that I no longer had the strong desire to be female. I felt real good, slept better at night and now wake up feeling refreshed, and generally real happy. For years I also went through periods of buying things - sometimes female clothing and sometimes just other non-gender items, almost to the point of hoarding. That all stopped with HRT and I no longer have the desire to shop for things like that.
I discovered some years ago that testosterone made my desire to be female worse, and HRT effectively eliminated that. So it seems strange that by taking estrogen I feel more manly and satisfied to be a man, and testosterone makes me feel more female. Perhaps that is what HRT is all about. It helps you to discover the right hormones that make you feel good and be the correct hormones for your body.
Phlox1, thanks for sharing, I've never heard of that sort of thing happening to people before. That's so fascinating!
Quote from: Phlox1 on June 06, 2016, 05:21:10 PM
HRT may not immediately answer all your questions, but if you feel you might be transgender I would suggest finding a therapist and see if he/she thinks you should try HRT.
I can only speak from my experience. I certainly had some transgender characteristics for years and eventually knew that I had to try HRT. Within about a week of HRT, I began to feel normal, like I was "cured." But this new normal for me was that I no longer had the strong desire to be female. I felt real good, slept better at night and now wake up feeling refreshed, and generally real happy. For years I also went through periods of buying things - sometimes female clothing and sometimes just other non-gender items, almost to the point of hoarding. That all stopped with HRT and I no longer have the desire to shop for things like that.
I discovered some years ago that testosterone made my desire to be female worse, and HRT effectively eliminated that. So it seems strange that by taking estrogen I feel more manly and satisfied to be a man, and testosterone makes me feel more female. Perhaps that is what HRT is all about. It helps you to discover the right hormones that make you feel good and be the correct hormones for your body.
Some great observations. I experienced much the same thing, except estrogen never made me feel more masculine, but it did stop me from wanting to crawl out of my own skin. Before I started HRT, I was obsessed with all things female, and spent hours on the weekends dressing in all kinds of highly feminine clothes. I crossdressed on and off for years, loving the feeling, and then hating myself for liking it, and purging everything. Crossdressing was like a drug. It
was my drug. And like most drugs, it was destructive, but it allowed me to cope.
Aside from the astounding absence of self-hatred and dysphoria that HRT provided, the fact that my desire to be female never wavered after I had lost all desire for sex proved to me this was not some kind of fetish. I knew what I was, and it wasn't male.
After I started HRT, my preoccupation with dressing all but disappeared. I felt comfortable just being me. I had the same thought as you, Phlox, "I'm cured!", lol. Yes, I'm "cured" as long as I have estrogen flowing through my veins. It has brought me a lot of peace.
Transition, on the other hand... well, no one said it would be easy.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: popa910 on June 06, 2016, 06:17:27 PM
Phlox1, thanks for sharing, I've never heard of that sort of thing happening to people before. That's so fascinating!
It's not so much the estrogen but getting the testosterone levels down to the feminine levels. I was on estrogen for about 5 years before surgery and it was only after surgery that I felt comfortable in my body. We didn't have blockers and in my case, T production continued while I was on estrogen. I also lost that desire to be a woman and am comfortable with myself as I am. I like to dress up nice sometimes but I am not driven to it like I was before.
Thank you Terri and Dena for your replies. I often wish I had worded my replies slightly differently after I submit them, and in my last post it probably would have been more accurate to say that I also feel satisfied being just me after starting estrogen. The desire to wear mostly women's clothing has mostly left me and I feel that I can live comfortably presenting as a male. If this continues it will make my life so much easier than if I eventually have to transition. These days I frequently question whether or not I really am transgender. Yet, I have to admit that I am experiencing some breast growth and really enjoying that. I've never asked cisgender men if they wish they could have breasts. Maybe many secretly do.
Thanks again.
Quote from: Phlox1 on June 06, 2016, 05:21:10 PMI can only speak from my experience. I certainly had some transgender characteristics for years and eventually knew that I had to try HRT. Within about a week of HRT, I began to feel normal, like I was "cured." But this new normal for me was that I no longer had the strong desire to be female. I felt real good, slept better at night and now wake up feeling refreshed, and generally real happy. For years I also went through periods of buying things - sometimes female clothing and sometimes just other non-gender items, almost to the point of hoarding. That all stopped with HRT and I no longer have the desire to shop for things like that.
I discovered some years ago that testosterone made my desire to be female worse, and HRT effectively eliminated that. So it seems strange that by taking estrogen I feel more manly and satisfied to be a man, and testosterone makes me feel more female. Perhaps that is what HRT is all about. It helps you to discover the right hormones that make you feel good and be the correct hormones for your body.
My experience exactly. :)
Quote from: Dena on June 05, 2016, 04:12:48 PM
Next there are two flavors of dysphoria. The first is the one you hear about all the time where people are uncomfortable with some or all of their body. The other one, the one I had was being uncomfortable with my role in society. I could exist in the male role and play the part but the depression was pretty constant and tended not to spike over something.
Dena, I think I'm finally beginning to understand this, so thank you for the clarification. While I'm still pretty comfortable with my body internally (i.e.: I don't hate what I see, or feel like things aren't right, when I look in a mirror), I do sometimes find myself wishing I could play a more stereotypically female role in my interactions with society. For what it's worth, when imagining these situations, I tend to imagine myself as someone like Max Caulfield from "Life Is Strange" (see: http://g3ar.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Life-Is-Strange™_20150201203915.jpg (http://g3ar.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Life-Is-Strange%E2%84%A2_20150201203915.jpg)), having recently played that video game. In these cases, I don't really give myself a very blatantly feminine and curvy shape, but instead use something more middling yet still unmistakably female. Basically, just something that nobody would question is female, but also something that wouldn't be too jarring for me to try, were I actually to do it.
On the other side of things, I do sometimes wish I had female parts in more sexual ruminations. While I don't really like admitting this, I am curious and excited when thinking about playing the female role (with an attractive female body) in sex. But at the same time, I also feel a bit dirty when thinking about this.
I feel like this has turned in to a bit of a meandering train of thought, so sorry if it's hard to follow! :/
I understand exactly what you mean about the feminine body as I was never out to get an extremely shapely body. Because of the low estradiol levels from HRT of the time and my poor response to HRT, I ended up with pretty much that type of body. Now I am back on HRT and the estradiol levels are more effective, I am facing the issue of developing some real shape ??? It was not what I was expecting but it will be interesting to see where I end up.
I just want to echo what has been said about HRT and sterility. There's always a chance that you will be permanently sterile and unable to have children when you start HRT. So you better be sure you don't want anymore children, or you should freeze your sperm first.
While it's true that most people don't become sterile after a short time on HRT, the possibility is always there. Keep that in mind if you want to do an HRT trial.
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Be prepared for the fact that what starts as a trial can easily become your norm and impossible to stop!
Quote from: Alex123 on June 16, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
Be prepared for the fact that what starts as a trial can easily become your norm and impossible to stop!
Are you saying that you will feel a higher level of dysphoria if you go off HRT? Or, once you start, you want to go deeper/towards transition?
I'm looking to calm the dysphoria but I can't transition now. For that reason, I was hoping for a low level HRT....if possible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Both!
Quote from: popa910 on June 05, 2016, 03:43:40 AM
Hey everybody, first off, sorry if this is a naive or misguided question; please let me know.
Anyways, I've read in several places that a good way to tell if you do indeed want to be MTF or FTM is by going on hormones and seeing if that makes you feel better, happier, more yourself.
Is this a reasonable way to try and figure things out? If it is, how would I be able to obtain the hormones? From what I've read, people typically have to visit a therapist who has to diagnose them with GID (or whatever it's called), and only after that will they be prescribed hormones. Obviously, in my situation, that could be a bit of a catch 22. :P
I'm assuming these things vary depending on where one lives, but are there any general procedures that are followed? I live in the USA.
.
In Washington we are required to get two recommendation letters before the dr can prescribe.
Quote from: DawnOday on June 18, 2016, 12:53:05 PM
.
In Washington we are required to get two recommendation letters before the dr can prescribe.
Wow. I found a trans friendly GP and made an appointment. Did a blood test the same day and 6 days later I got the prescription.
I have met many people who are only interested in starting a trial and I cannot think of a single one that stopped. When you reach a point where you become comfortable with your inside, you will find it hard to contemplate reverting back to less evolved state :D
For me, HRT was a smooth process to start and it has been the happiest being I can recall in the past 20 years. Not a euphoria, but a contentment that things are ok.
With informed consent, if you are in a state that allows for it...getting started is not that difficult.
I started a trial 2 weeks ago, and feel I have seen some lessening of my GD, and slightly more level emotions. However, I have some surgery planned (unrelated) for later this year, so I know I have a hard stop in my trial for that. I'm also waiting on hair growth following a transplant earlier this year, as I'm keen to avoid the need for a wig if I go full time. I'm concerned about the effects of stopping my trial, but I have decided on 3 months max, and will stop sooner if noticeable physical changes start to occur.
Hello, just today i was reading this website: http://www.transgendercare.com/guidance/what_is_gender.htm
And for me this is the best information that i found to understand why i am so doubt about transition and if i am a real trans or not... this and 3 year whit a gender terapist ;)... now , since 2 months iam in antiandrogens, looking for estradiol the next week in a endocronologist.. for a low dosage terapy, trying to find my way of truly be.
Sorry for my bad english.
Quote from: kaitylynn on June 19, 2016, 06:07:43 PM
I have met many people who are only interested in starting a trial and I cannot think of a single one that stopped.
A while ago I asked my endo if anyone who started had stopped, and after thinking for a bit he said no one. He has 3500 trans patients.
AnonyMs - I assume we see the same endo...
He really has 3,500 trans patients? Wow !!
I also heard he just started providing facial hair removal services at the St Leonards clinic too?
Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 20, 2016, 12:52:58 AM
AnonyMs - I assume we see the same endo...
He really has 3,500 trans patients? Wow !!
I also heard he just started providing facial hair removal services at the St Leonards clinic too?
Dr Hayes. I think he's one of best trans specialist endo's in the world and we're lucky to have him. I ask him heaps of questions every time I go.
He's some more on the 3500 patients and implants
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207756.msg1843224.html#msg1843224
He's recently started doing electrolysis in St Leonards, and on the days he's in that office he offers nitrous oxide gas and/or anesthetic injections to help manage the pain. I don't know anyone else who can do that in Australia - the benefits of being a doctor. Some people do 8 hours sessions that way.
He doesn't do laser, or at least not yet.
Yeah, Dr Hayes is a critical part of our community. I ask him endless questions too.
Next time I see him I want to know some more about sport and exercise. My testosterone levels are very close to zero and I'm wondering if that means I will find it pretty much impossible to rebuild cardio fitness. I want to get back into distance running, but have been struggling a bit. If there is no hope of improving I will consider some other forms of exercise.
I'm also pretty lucky that I live about 200m from his office in St Leonards.
I've been pretty impressed with the implants so far, but my levels won't be measured until July.
Wow, I knew he was popular, but 3,500 patients. Wow!
Claire, I think you'd build fitness much like any women, whatever that means.
The great thing about having so many patients is that he's got a lot of experience to go on. He uses very high levels of HRT compared to other doctors, which is totally wonderful, and he's got a lot of evidence that its safe and effective. Not so the others.
Yea... women compete in all the same running events as men in the Olympics, I don't know why you would have to give up distance running. Sure, women run slower than men at the highest competitive levels, but for the average person I don't see how having less testosterone would make much of a difference.
I realise women participate in sport.
I'm also very happy to run in a slower pace brackets - my fast marathon times are behind me now anyhow.
It's more that my testosterone levels are well below the healthy female range (pretty close to zero). I wonder if it will even be possible to build fitness the way a cisgender female would. Or is testosterone not that significant in building cardio fitness?
I assumed (maybe wrongly?), given the lungs and heart are muscles, that it might be impossible to improve their strength and endurance in the complete absence of testosterone.
I really just want to know if training is futile or not....
My T levels were very low, below female range, and Dr Hayes told me the test wasn't accurate at those levels. You can also get higher T if you wanted to.
Best ask the doctor I imagine.
Quote from: AnonyMs on June 22, 2016, 03:39:56 AM
My T levels were very low, below female range, and Dr Hayes told me the test wasn't accurate at those levels. You can also get higher T if you wanted to.
Best ask the doctor I imagine.
Thanks.
From what I can tell, the healthy male range for FAI is 30 to 150. The healthy female range is 7 to 10. Last time I had blood taken, my FAI was 0.3. That is why I am doubtful about whether I can recover a base fitness to run distances again. My T is not comparable to normal cisgender athletes, Olympic or otherwise.
If the choice is between raising my androgen level (and slowing my transition) and choosing another sport, I'd probably look at a different sport.
I guess that's why I said it was something I plan to discuss during my next consult with Dr Hayes.
:-)