If someone is interested in this, Dr Kim from Yeson voice center just published a scientific paper, reporting on his surgery method and also on the results of several hundred patients he did the voice feminization surgery on.
Here is the link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lary.26127/abstract
Full text can probably be accessed through libraries or with university access, but sadly it is not open access publication.
Many thanks for this Anja !
Thanks, Anja. I need to get go find out my alumni logon details so I can read this. :)
I found out that if you click on "enhanced HTML", apparently one can view a free version of the paper as HTML - this does not work with PDF or the simple HTML version, which both lead to a paywall. Not sure if this is a hickup in the website or intentional though.
Many thanks Anja... That's indeed very interesting.
What a nice article! I'm really quite surprised that Dr. Kim hasn't published more articles in that journal. The biblio has like a who's who in the world of VFS.
AFAIK he did publish more. just not about feminization procedures but about other topics that he works on
Thank you for the link. One of my main hurdles to overcome is my voice as I find it difficult to maintain pitch for extended periods of time. Not to mention in general I still don't think my voice is very femme even when trying. I have heard of Dr. Kim and Yeson so this was a good read and gives me something to consider.
So the only bad thing about the article is he refers to the 3 pseudohermaphrodite patients twice and then refers to them as bisexual a third time. I think he probably meant pseudohermaphrodite or maybe just hermaphrodite because pseudohermaphrodite implies a fake hermaphrodite.
Its a scientific term for a special variant of pysical sexed bodies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudohermaphroditism - the word probably comes from a time long before political correctness was invented. Bisexual of course is really something different. Thats a mistake then if he uses that term in this paper because obviously sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. But having been in peer review myself, it just can happen that even reviewers overlook some of the mistakes one does in wording
QuoteIn our study, eight professional singers had a reasonable singing range shifted up to the female range without alterations in voice quality after adapting to controlling the new vocal folds in a singing voice rehabilitation program.
I swear that I'll cry tears of happiness after doing this surgery !
Quote from: sap on July 17, 2016, 03:19:05 PM
I swear that I'll cry tears of happiness after doing this surgery !
I can only speak for myself, but my singing is better than before surgery. It's a lot less effort for me.... Hard to tell if that's the surgery or the voice exercises every day, though. :)
Quote from: Denjin on July 17, 2016, 05:32:37 PM
I can only speak for myself, but my singing is better than before surgery. It's a lot less effort for me.... Hard to tell if that's the surgery or the voice exercises every day, though. :)
Are you singing in a normal female range? Even the high notes that you couldn't reach before?
What do you sing, alto, mezzo, soprano?
Can "singing too hard" damage the surgery results?
Quote from: sap on July 18, 2016, 12:04:48 AM
Are you singing in a normal female range? Even the high notes that you couldn't reach before?
What do you sing, alto, mezzo, soprano?
Can "singing too hard" damage the surgery results?
It's probably best to start another thread about singing, although the academic paper did mention it. :) I don't know if alto or mezzo, but what I mean is I used to have to change into almost falsetto-type voice to do high notes before but that doesn't need to happen as much now.
Quote from: Denjin on July 18, 2016, 02:49:17 AM
It's probably best to start another thread about singing, although the academic paper did mention it. :) I don't know if alto or mezzo, but what I mean is I used to have to change into almost falsetto-type voice to do high notes before but that doesn't need to happen as much now.
I might open a new thread but I did it once and it didn't really help me.
I really really want to do this surgery with Dr. Kim but my singing teacher warns me and told me to listen to post-op people singing first and if someone had any issues... I can't really find any example of post-op singing
Do you mind recording yourself singing in a female range?
I did a singing course on the weekend - I am absoloute beginner, but it was fun and I think it did definitely work better for me than pre-OP. I could hit the higher notes more easily, but I did have trouble around my voice break, which was not so pleasant. The interesting thing is that the other women in the course had often trouble reaching the C5 but for me that was not a problem, I did have a large vocal range pre-OP as well, though. What I did notice however was that the course was a real strain on my voice and I rested my voice for a day after that because it was feeleing strained.
Amy_Berlin is a professional singer here who had the Yeson surgery. She does record CDs with a band she is in, so there are probably recordings available. Also J-Mie (you can find her on youtube I think in the context of rave music as J-Mie and Mi-Di IIRC) had the prcedure and does recordings. I think the ones Dr Kim mentioned there are Korean singers though. I know he did the surgery on a transgender pop band from Korea.
Quote from: anjaq on July 18, 2016, 05:00:24 AM
I did a singing course on the weekend - I am absoloute beginner, but it was fun and I think it did definitely work better for me than pre-OP. I could hit the higher notes more easily, but I did have trouble around my voice break, which was not so pleasant. The interesting thing is that the other women in the course had often trouble reaching the C5 but for me that was not a problem, I did have a large vocal range pre-OP as well, though. What I did notice however was that the course was a real strain on my voice and I rested my voice for a day after that because it was feeleing strained.
Amy_Berlin is a professional singer here who had the Yeson surgery. She does record CDs with a band she is in, so there are probably recordings available. Also J-Mie (you can find her on youtube I think in the context of rave music as J-Mie and Mi-Di IIRC) had the prcedure and does recordings. I think the ones Dr Kim mentioned there are Korean singers though. I know he did the surgery on a transgender pop band from Korea.
Oh thank you! I'd really like to hear post-op singers but I don't think I found them...
Is she Amy that you talked about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy0gL9HJQWE
Can you help me with finding her or J-Mie please?
One more thing, currently I can sing Tenor (Range: C3 – B4) and I wish I could sing Soprano (Range: B3 – G6).
Does it sound possible to get to G6 1567.98Hz after Yeson operation?
Of course I'm practicing singing now and I will practice after the surgery
No that video I do not know.
Amy is: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=30209
I am not sure if she is ok with me posting links to her real live Names and Videos, so I guess you have to ask her.
J-Mi was always rather open about this topic, so I think she does not mind, her youtube channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhOGMeDVGBREl8vTooGtuA
Quote from: sap on July 18, 2016, 05:55:22 AM
One more thing, currently I can sing Tenor (Range: C3 – B4) and I wish I could sing Soprano (Range: B3 – G6).
Does it sound possible to get to G6 1567.98Hz after Yeson operation?
Thats unlikely, sorry. Ususally the upper range does not change much, in some it actually is reduced a little, often it is similar, in some cases it goes up a little. I usually am staying a bit below the C6 - that was before the surgery and still is where my voice gets strained too much for me to push further. Maybe with some training I could reach the C6, but its not changed by surgery.
Something I did not had before the surgery was access to a very high whistle register though. Not sure if that is because of the surgery of because of all the exercises and training. In that I can actually hit the E6, but the voice analyst calls it an artefact - I can make that pitch but not sing in it , just sort of scream and there is a break to my singing voice below.
Quote from: anjaq on July 18, 2016, 08:51:00 AM
No that video I do not know.
Amy is: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=30209
I am not sure if she is ok with me posting links to her real live Names and Videos, so I guess you have to ask her.
J-Mi was always rather open about this topic, so I think she does not mind, her youtube channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhOGMeDVGBREl8vTooGtuA
Thats unlikely, sorry. Ususally the upper range does not change much, in some it actually is reduced a little, often it is similar, in some cases it goes up a little. I usually am staying a bit below the C6 - that was before the surgery and still is where my voice gets strained too much for me to push further. Maybe with some training I could reach the C6, but its not changed by surgery.
Something I did not had before the surgery was access to a very high whistle register though. Not sure if that is because of the surgery of because of all the exercises and training. In that I can actually hit the E6, but the voice analyst calls it an artefact - I can make that pitch but not sing in it , just sort of scream and there is a break to my singing voice below.
Ok thank you! I'll ask her.
So lets say I can hit the higher notes of the Mezzo, but I really push it and it's not comfortable for me.
Will the surgery make these notes easier for me? Will these notes sound more natural and less stressed?
To me it feels easier to hit the higher notes, but the very high notes are still hard to hit and at the very top end I actually feel its a bit harder. I did that singing course last weekend and many of the women there had a hard time to hit the C5, for me it was easy, but E5 is about the point where it gets harder for me and G5 or A5 is the limit.
I think its hard to say - if you can hit the notes now, probably you would still hit the same notes but some parts in the middle and middle-high area will be easier.
By the way - Dr Kim can apparently "tweak" the surgery towards your preferences - speaking loudly or singing. Not sure what he does there, but maybe you should ask him
Thanks for posting that Anjaq. It's very informative.
Paige :)
Quote from: anjaq on July 18, 2016, 08:51:00 AM
J-Mi was always rather open about this topic, so I think she does not mind, her youtube channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhOGMeDVGBREl8vTooGtuA
I'm watching J-Mi's Journey to Yeson video now. She is so cool for documenting that!
A long, long time ago (2000-2001) I had some music out on a popular Internet site called mp3.com that found its way into four shows on MTV. Many people knew, or found out, I was trans back then (even back then people were sleuthing on the Internet). I usually pitch/formant-shifted my voice up in my vocals.
Quote from: GeekGirl on July 19, 2016, 03:16:03 AM
I'm watching J-Mi's Journey to Yeson video now. She is so cool for documenting that!
Wow, she even managed to get Jesse and Dr. Kim in the video! I always pictured Dr. Kim being a whole lot younger, but then again all doctors seem to post pictures of themselves in their youth.
Dr. Kim looked really flattered yet nervous in the video. I'm not sure I'd want to shake up my surgeon like that before a procedure.
Wow, even the post-op care stuff was filmed! I had no idea all of this was so comprehensive at Yeson.
Certainly makes a good read, very informative. i was thinking of getting this done in 2018. cant do it next year as have srs booked.