Okay, the time is coming up for my VFS with Dr. Haben, so I decided to post this pre-op (bleagh) recording of The Rainbow Passage. I will be updating this thread as time goes on (and my voice allows).
July 10, 2016 Rainbow Passage: http://vocaroo.com/i/s06fOsABFAiv
So here's a followup to my post... it's kind of an outpouring of my soul, so get ready...
I have been struggling with my voice all my life. It's always sounded androgynous at best and I feel it's time to make a change. In terms of other aspects of my transition, I've never had many problems. I thought that GRS would be my last surgery after my breasts and my nose were done. I thought that maybe I could just live the rest of my life feeling complete after GRS.
But I still get called "sir" over the phone.
That's been the bane of my existence. Oh, yeah, I do get called "ma'am" about as much as I get called "sir". I often wonder why the dummies on the other end of the line don't equate my legal name "Clare" with being female. What "sir" has the name "Clare"?!! So I live with this Achilles Heel day in and day out and every time it happens, a little piece of my soul is chipped away. Heartache and pain... some of you know the feeling.
I went to Dr. Haben in 2013 hoping for a cure to my problem. Well, not exactly a cure, but a kickstart. I know that a raise in pitch is just the beginning of my voice journey, but at least it'll get me on the right path. I have plenty of resonance in my voice (I think most Asians do) and there's this slight twinge of nasality in my voice (like 2%). I talk a lot with my hands and most everyone who sees me and the way I speak in person would never mistake me for anything other than female. I was hoping to achieve the same over the phone. So Dr. Haben tried in July 2013, but the surgery didn't succeed. The stitches didn't hold and my voice was unchanged. I would've loved to hear what it could've been if the stitches held long enough for me to hear it, but I didn't even get that privilege. I was depressed for a couple of months after that having felt I wasted my money.
Three years later, I learned to cope with my voice. I made excuses for it. I became a yoga teacher and a fairly excellent one at that. I succeeded in a field dominated by genetic women and I can say that a large part of that was due to my voice. It was perfect for yoga, the kind of yoga I do, which is Bikram Yoga. Still, the misgendered phone calls chipped away at me. It came to a point where I delved into a short-lived career as a phone actress (you can guess what this is) just to prove to myself that my voice was okay. (Strangely, it is okay to many and my voice has been labelled as "sexy" even though I think it's ->-bleeped-<-.)
Now I finally found the time to give Dr. Haben another try. Yes, I'm fearful of the unsuccesses that were recently posted but there were also many successes, too. I know I just have to give this another shot. Plus, three years have passed, so the good doctor has more experience doing this now. I know the volume of my voice will likely be lower. I know that 8 semitones is optimistic. I know that recovery in 4 to 6 weeks is unlikely. But that's okay. I'm willing to give this another try. And I'm optimistic and I'm praying to God every day.
My allergist, an older fellow who is 75, assures me that the laryngoplasty procedure is "relatively easy to do and has a high success rate." He told me I don't need to change my voice. He thinks it's sexy. (It's strange that people come out of the woodwork to tell me these things right before surgery.)
Anyway, this is all I have to say for now. Unedited and from my heart. Surgery soon. Wish me luck!
Good luck! I hope everything works out how you want. I am starting to look into VFS myself and would love to know how things go.
Quote from: TardisGurl on July 16, 2016, 07:20:14 PM
Good luck! I hope everything works out how you want. I am starting to look into VFS myself and would love to know how things go.
Thank you! I intend to update this post as often as possible. I'm quite excited. Everyone keeps asking me "Are you nervous?" I'm never nervous until about 30 minutes before a surgery :)
Quote from: GeekGirl on July 16, 2016, 07:56:33 PM
Thank you! I intend to update this post as often as possible. I'm quite excited. Everyone keeps asking me "Are you nervous?" I'm never nervous until about 30 minutes before a surgery :)
I was a ball of nerves the night before surgery. I was luck to get a few hours of sleep before it was time to catch a shower and get ready to go.
Quote from: Dena on July 16, 2016, 08:01:12 PM
I was a ball of nerves the night before surgery. I was luck to get a few hours of sleep before it was time to catch a shower and get ready to go.
I felt the same way, too, during my first surgery with Dr. Haben. I think I slept at most four hours (that's about as much sleep as I get before every surgery... right before my breast aug, I woke up in the middle of the night and witnessed a fire spreading on a building across the street and called the fire department in time to save it... talk about destiny!).
Wishing you the best!
I just saw Dr. Haben today and he recommended that i not speak for 30 days after the surgery since this is my second go at it. Also, I need to severely limit any chance of acid reflux or vomiting because that could weaken the stitches. I'm going to be extra careful with everything this time around just in case. Just counting down the hours...
I am new to the forum but have been following these VFS threads in particular quite a bit - anyways - just wanna say that I hope it goes really well! Sounds like you have a great idea of the excellent after-care you will be taking! It seems to be half the battle right there, if not more.
Dear GeekGirl
I also wish you all the best and that everything went well. Btw both are right... You in the case, that your voice has a low pitch... And the ones who said that your voice sound sexy... It does sound realy sexy as well... :D
Take care... :-*
Danielle
Quote from: andreah on July 19, 2016, 11:33:45 PM
I am new to the forum but have been following these VFS threads in particular quite a bit - anyways - just wanna say that I hope it goes really well! Sounds like you have a great idea of the excellent after-care you will be taking! It seems to be half the battle right there, if not more.
Thank you andreah!
Quote from: DanielleBasel on July 20, 2016, 06:03:49 AM
Dear GeekGirl
I also wish you all the best and that everything went well. Btw both are right... You in the case, that your voice has a low pitch... And the ones who said that your voice sound sexy... It does sound realy sexy as well... :D
Take care... :-*
Danielle
Thank you Danielle!
hi everyone,
i just got back from the hospital. similar to the first time, there was some uncontrollable coughing and i accidentally said a word. hopefully this will not affect the healing process. my coughing wasnt ss harsh this tine vs last time. the anesthesia also left me really woozy like last time. i got to the hosital by 6am, had the surgery at 7:30am, woke up at 11 or so and couldnt leave until 4pm. i had the triple the first time so my throat was a lot mire sore. since the stitches failed to stay the first time, Dr Haben tried a slightly different location to make sure the webbibg would form. the negative is the stitches have a slightly higher chance of coming loose if im not careful. i was told to not speak for 30 days and i was given the following meds right before i left: steroids, prilosec, and hydrocodone. i hVe a morning appt with Dr Haben to,orrow morning before i return home.
sorry about the misspellings. stupid ipad!!!
Glad it went well! I think we always worry that the 'one misstep' after a surgery - a cough, a bad step, etc - will ruin things, but it usually doesn't. I banged my leg really bad after ankle surgery and worried so badly but it was OK of course! If 99% of the time you do well, it will heal well. :) Don't let that stress you out too much! Get a lot of rest, thanks for the updates!
-Andrea
so im sitting here in my hotel room this morning and i did a stupid thing. i heard a noise and whispered "what is that?" to my parter to which she reminded me not to speak. argh! last night i said a word, too. there was not a noticeable change in pitch yet. i hope the stitches didnt rip apart. just an hour and a half before my followup appt with Dr Haben.
good luck girl
Quote from: GeekGirl on July 21, 2016, 06:22:47 AM
so im sitting here in my hotel room this morning and i did a stupid thing. i heard a noise and whispered "what is that?" to my parter to which she reminded me not to speak. argh! last night i said a word, too. there was not a noticeable change in pitch yet. i hope the stitches didnt rip apart. just an hour and a half before my followup appt with Dr Haben.
I know the last time didn't work out, but I wouldn't worry so much over a few minor slip ups! Glad things have gone well so far and best of luck!
Okay, I just got back home. After another small cough, that's 6 times total, I'm sipping water like mad to prevent any more coughs. I've never drank so much water before. It's frustrating to not cough when you want to.
Here are my pics. The first three are from my procedure on 7/20. The one on the bottom right (I turned it 180 degrees for comparison) is from today. Looks like that stitches held up. Dr. Haben says the granulation bubble is probably from last time (my first procedure back in July 2013) and is a sign of slow healing.
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/47527-210716163727.jpeg)
Hope you will have a great recovery! Sleeping on 2-3 pillows helped me a lot to prevent coughing at night time.
Quote from: jollyjoy on July 22, 2016, 11:25:48 PM
Hope you will have a great recovery! Sleeping on 2-3 pillows helped me a lot to prevent coughing at night time.
Thanks jollyjoy! Yes, I've been trying that, experimenting with keeping my head elevated versus my whole upper body elevated, kind of like laying on a lounge chair. I'm done with my hydrocodone this morning and the last of my steroids is tonight. I bought some Delsym to lessen any future coughing.
So sad, Synatura is only availabe in Korea. it was so good against rough thoat and coughing...
My one week update: I started taking Delsym after the 5 days of hydrocodone for cough suppression. Delsym makes me really tired and dizzy. I can't seem to stay awake past 10pm and I wake up around 5:30am. I coughed (not willfully) single coughs 24 times in the past 7 days (a little more than 3 a day) and accidentally tried to speak 8 words (about 1 a day). No sound came out during any of those times. I noticed that a lot of heavy laughing the other day made my throat feel sore. I'm not supposed to speak for 30 days. For a talkative person, this is harder than you can imagine. I've been using pre-written phrases, typing into a notepad, and a text to speech app as my communication devices.
I was told to not speak for 30 days because the first time I did the surgery, I was told to not speak for 7 days (I did 10) and the stitches didn't hold so Dr. Haben concluded I was a slow healer. Thinking back to the first experience, I was hacking up (coughing severely) a lot the moment I was awake from the anesthesia and I did vomit a couple of times in the hospital so that probably didn't help. This time none of that happened so I remain optimistic.
There's a slight tinge of soreness in my throat. It was a little sore after the surgery a week ago so the soreness is a lot less now, but then again I am taking a 200mg ibuprofen pill 2-3 times a day to manage pain (I suspect I won't need this soon). I'm sucking on cough drops all day long and my appetite is very good. I haven't had a Pepsi in over a week (I love Pepsi) and will try to follow Yeson's practices of no spicy food for 1 month, no caffeine for 2 months, and no alcohol for 3. No caffeine in my body could be contributing to my going to bed so early every day.
Anyway, I'm following the rules more carefully for this surgery than any others I've had. I really want this to go well.
Glad your recovery is still going well. Giving up Pepsi (and yes, pepsi specifically, as I prefer it to Coke) was one of the hardest parts of recovery for me, too!
Quote from: kwala on July 29, 2016, 11:48:07 AM
Glad your recovery is still going well. Giving up Pepsi (and yes, pepsi specifically, as I prefer it to Coke) was one of the hardest parts of recovery for me, too!
Thanks kwala!
So one bit of an unfortunate thing happened... I saw a mouse in my condo two night ago, got startled, and screamed "Mouse!" to my partner. It came out as an indistinct "Eeeeeuuuurrrrrrrrggghhhh!" sound. I surely hope that that didn't cause my stitches to break. I've been thinking about it yesterday and today and kicking myself. I didn't feel any sharp pain after I "screamed," but I was sad and upset about the prospect of the stitch popping. My partner kept saying "you would feel it" if the stitch broke and tried to keep me calm. She also said that the stitches are designed to hold for a month before dissolving, but surely the stitches can tear through the vocal folds with a scream? Argh... I guess Dr. Haben would know (I sent him an email).
Dr. Haben replied and said that, true to what my partner had thought, if the stitches had ripped, I would've likely felt it. He said to not worry about it now and just things heal. Okay, so here are some reasons why I'm hopeful.
1. At about this time the first time I had the surgery (which failed), I was able to talk. Almost clearly but with raspiness. This time I'm not able to make much sound except light whispers and that "Eeeeeuuuurrrrrrrrggghhhh" sound.
2. I remind myself to shut up and relax and it's basically working.
3. The little lump feeling in my throat from the previous weeks is going away little by little.
The big scare is what happens if I'm never able to speak again? I know there are technologies out there to fix this. When I was little, I knew a woman in my neighborhood who lost her voice and had to use a metal instrument that looked like an aerosol spray can to talk. She had a metallic voice. Is that my fate? (hope not)
Well, I can tell you that you are probably right about the stitches not popping due to the fact that you are unable to make much noise. Your web is probably formed already. It does take time, however for swelling to come down and the vocal folds have to sort of readjust to their new shape. As for losing your voice forever, I wouldn't panic. You know by now what happened to me, but I am an exception. The odds are still very much in your favor, so just try to be patient and don't judge your voice too harshly until 2 or 3 months have gone by. Most people panicked when they couldn't speak at all during the first month and 9/10 of them turned out just fine!
Quote from: kwala on August 01, 2016, 02:31:08 PM
Well, I can tell you that you are probably right about the stitches not popping due to the fact that you are unable to make much noise. Your web is probably formed already. It does take time, however for swelling to come down and the vocal folds have to sort of readjust to their new shape. As for losing your voice forever, I wouldn't panic. You know by now what happened to me, but I am an exception. The odds are still very much in your favor, so just try to be patient and don't judge your voice too harshly until 2 or 3 months have gone by. Most people panicked when they couldn't speak at all during the first month and 9/10 of them turned out just fine!
Thanks kwala :) I'm just fearful that I'm that lone 1% or 4% or something like that. Dr. Haben said something about 96% success with the web forming, so that means out of the 300 or so surgeries, it didn't work 12 times (of which I was one of those).
I remember the first time he announced my surgery failed. He said "1 out of 50 people have problems". That was back in 2013.
I remember you said that your new ENT doctors said that 75% of the vocal cords were covered. Does that mean you had trouble breathing? That would suck in my case with all of my allergies. Oh, yeah, that's another thing I have to fight, too. I have severe allergies and am taking Xolair once a month (allergist prescribed) to combat it.
Quote from: GeekGirl on August 01, 2016, 02:38:47 PM
Thanks kwala :) I'm just fearful that I'm that lone 1% or 4% or something like that. Dr. Haben said something about 96% success with the web forming, so that means out of the 300 or so surgeries, it didn't work 12 times (of which I was one of those).
I remember the first time he announced my surgery failed. He said "1 out of 50 people have problems". That was back in 2013.
I remember you said that your new ENT doctors said that 75% of the vocal cords were covered. Does that mean you had trouble breathing? That would suck in my case with all of my allergies. Oh, yeah, that's another thing I have to fight, too. I have severe allergies and am taking Xolair once a month (allergist prescribed) to combat it.
To be honest, I didn't notice any issues breathing, but after the second surgery to remove part of the web I noticed a very slight change, like I had a slightly bigger space to breathe into. I grew up with asthma though and so far any changes I've noticed have been so so very slight that they are almost not worth mentioning- so I wouldn't worry about that. It was a concern of several doctors I've seen though, and they had me do tests with a breathing tube and all said I was still breathing normally even with the super web blocking so much of the airway.
Quote from: kwala on August 01, 2016, 10:07:03 PM
To be honest, I didn't notice any issues breathing, but after the second surgery to remove part of the web I noticed a very slight change, like I had a slightly bigger space to breathe into. I grew up with asthma though and so far any changes I've noticed have been so so very slight that they are almost not worth mentioning- so I wouldn't worry about that. It was a concern of several doctors I've seen though, and they had me do tests with a breathing tube and all said I was still breathing normally even with the super web blocking so much of the airway.
Another point I've been thinking about is I wonder if not doing the CTA versus doing the CTA affects the healing process of the web. After the CTA, aren't the two muscles that normally open up and close together when you make sounds always in a contracted, or pinched, position? Because these muscles are stuck in this position of little movement, there should be less agitation on the web. Despite all of our best efforts to not use our voice, everyone always makes the random cough or sneeze or whispered word. That probably agitates the web, especially for those who haven't had the CTA.
Age is certainly a factor in the healing process, too. I'm older than a lot of Dr. Haben's patients (I'm 48) so my healing is certainly going to be slower than a 21 year old. Maybe Dr. Haben was a little too quick in telling me (after my first surgery) and others my age that "Hey, you can talk after a week of voice rest!" I know we're all anxious to recite The Rainbow Passage to show our results to each other, but saying all of these Rainbow Passages probably agitated our vocal cords when some of us should've been taking additional days or weeks of voice rest. That's why I think the one month vocal rest makes sense for me, but I really wasn't prepared for this. I thought I might be able to speak after maybe two weeks. I think my workplace has been very patient and understanding so far and a lot of people have adapted to my new form of communication. I've found a lot of strangers to be very kind when interacting with me. It's like they see I have a disability and take extra steps to be extra nice to me. Some even think I'm deaf and mute instead of just mute. Occasionally, I meet someone who seems impatient when interacting with me, but that's rare.
My week 2 update: A little less coughing and accidental words spoken per day than the first week. Of the spoken words, they came out as nothing more than a whisper. I'm using my text to speech app a lot more. Yesterday, I answered three phone calls using my text to speech app, two for doctor's appointments and one to order merchandise (a pool cue). I even spelled out credit card information using the app. I couldn't believe it worked. My colleagues sitting next to me were all amazed that it worked. This made me feel a lot less helpless, because the days prior to that I've been getting my colleagues to answer the phone for me and I felt guilty doing that, like it wasn't their job even though they all work for me.
I was nearly two weeks before the swelling went down enough that I could make noise and when I did, it didn't sound very good. I suspect my thread broke around the 5 week mark but I didn't feel it or notice a change. My only proof was a tiny bit of thread that came up in a cough that was less than an eighth of an inch long. Anyway while I was still non speaking, I had a UTI and it was funny how in the hospital they were using sign language. I had to write that I could hear but just couldn't speak.
Paper and pen worked best for me as my huge hands just don't work well on my tiny iPhone keyboard. As for the phone, it didn't ring much and anybody who was important to me knew how to contact me by other means. I even set up a separate email address just to be used with the phone as nobody texts me.
Quote from: Dena on August 03, 2016, 05:29:42 PM
I was nearly two weeks before the swelling went down enough that I could make noise and when I did, it didn't sound very good. I suspect my thread broke around the 5 week mark but I didn't feel it or notice a change. My only proof was a tiny bit of thread that came up in a cough that was less than an eighth of an inch long. Anyway while I was still non speaking, I had a UTI and it was funny how in the hospital they were using sign language. I had to write that I could hear but just couldn't speak.
Paper and pen worked best for me as my huge hands just don't work well on my tiny iPhone keyboard. As for the phone, it didn't ring much and anybody who was important to me knew how to contact me by other means. I even set up a separate email address just to be used with the phone as nobody texts me.
At work, we have a chat system called Slack that we all use to communicate with each other, so that's what I'm using in place of most phone calls. I've found that the CVS equivalent of Delsym is not as gritty as Delsym and it doesn't make me as sleepy but it's not as effective as Delsym. I start coughing a couple of hours prior to my next 12 hour dose. I think Delsym is probably the best over the counter choice of cough suppresant for me.
My taste buds are finally clearing up such that I can taste things almost 100% now. I've read all these articles about how long anesthesia stays in the body. Some people don't even believe it lasts more than 48 hours in the body, but it sure does something to the taste buds.
What destroys the sense of taste is the physical pressure of the instruments on the tongue. Dr Haben was extremely brutal with my surgery and my whole mouth was sore after surgery and it took several weeks for the teeth to stop hurting when I chewed. The first meal after surgery with the chicken and carrots was so difficult to chew that I was ready to send it back uneaten. It took almost 2 hours to eat that first meal. When destroyed, Taste buds take 6 to 8 weeks to regrow. Destroying them is pretty common as really hot spicy food will do it.
As for the cough medicine, I still have my one year old bottle short only one dosage that Dr Haben told me to take before my flight. I should have never take it because I wanted to sleep all the way home and I am so big that there was no room to do that in the small seating space that South West uses.
Quote from: Dena on August 03, 2016, 06:17:08 PM
What destroys the sense of taste is the physical pressure of the instruments on the tongue. Dr Haben was extremely brutal with my surgery and my whole mouth was sore after surgery and it took several weeks for the teeth to stop hurting when I chewed. The first meal after surgery with the chicken and carrots was so difficult to chew that I was ready to send it back uneaten. It took almost 2 hours to eat that first meal. When destroyed, Taste buds take 6 to 8 weeks to regrow. Destroying them is pretty common as really hot spicy food will do it.
As for the cough medicine, I still have my one year old bottle short only one dosage that Dr Haben told me to take before my flight. I should have never take it because I wanted to sleep all the way home and I am so big that there was no room to do that in the small seating space that South West uses.
So sorry to hear about your teeth and taste buds!
I love spicy foods, but I've forced myself to cut down a lot on spicy stuff the past two weeks. One day I had something mildly spicy and I paid for it that night with acid reflux. Even mildly greasy foods give me acid reflux. One thing I've noticed,though, is today I had my first sip of Coke in a while (they didn't have Pepsi at the place I ate at) and it shocked my tongue, to the point it felt like it was burning. Needless to say, I'm going to have to cut soda out completely or find a way to dilute it. Yeson says not to drink carbonated drinks for 2 months, so I should probably follow that rule.
Oh, so some of you might be wondering why I refer to Yeson so much when I had my surgery with Dr. Haben. Well, I decided that Yeson has the more conservative approach to healing, which is probably what I need, so I freeze framed a video by someone who did her surgery with Yeson and I grabbed the info on Yeson's post-op care info sheets.
Week 3 update:
Some random episodes of coughing and some accidental whispering of words here and there. I switched to the CVS brand of Delsym to control my coughing, which was a mistake; it's not as strong as Delsym. I tried speaking a "hello" last Saturday and the pitch was promising. I had to do that because I was getting anxious that I might have lost my voice permanently. Over the past week, the little soreness in my throat gradually disappeared. My partner and I bought a new bed, a Tempur-Pedic adjustable, which has made sleeping much nicer now. No issues with acid reflux even after my wonderful slow-cooked meatball dinner the other night. Except for those few sips of soda last week, I haven't had Pepsi in three weeks. I used to drink five or six cans a day. I feel like I'm almost ready to start my Aikido training again. Last week, I attended an Aikido seminar and just did some basic rolls on an open mat to see how I felt. I felt a little dizzy afterwards, so a little more rest should help.
30 day update: Originally, I thought I'd stay silent until August 20, but then I said to myself, "Hey, wait a second, August 19 is my 30 days!" So, without further ado, after a little over 4 weeks, is The Rainbow Passage. Like many of you at this time, my voice is very weak, very breathy, very low in volume, and in its beginning stages of development. Earlier in the day, I had trouble completing full sentences because I felt I didn't have enough strength to complete them. It's like I really have to exert a lot of energy into saying more than 5 words in sequence. After about five words, my voice would go quiet in a whisper like the volume would trail off or slowly decrease from word 1 to 5 and then on word 6 someone hit mute. My throat feels a little sore after a couple of sentences (or partial sentences), I'd rest, and then I'd have enough strength to say another five words followed by whispers.
This is why it was so surprising to me when I got home and I was able to just say the entire passage without the trail off in volume. However, I wasn't speaking as loudly as I was with my customers earlier today (I'm in IT support), so that may have been why. I have a big presentation on Monday that requires me to speak for about 15 minutes, but luckily my colleague will be there to say most of the words and I will just fill in the details.
July 10, 2016 Rainbow Passage: http://vocaroo.com/i/s06fOsABFAiv (http://vocaroo.com/i/s06fOsABFAiv)
August 19, 2016 Rainbow Passage: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1qO1GigAVql (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1qO1GigAVql)
Very good for your first shot. It was about 7 months before I was really able to regain my volume but I seem to be very slow at everything so I suspect your voice should greatly improve over the next month. The pitch an inflection sound feminine but the voice is whispery, possibly do to swelling and as you noted still on the weak side.
Quote from: Dena on August 19, 2016, 07:49:41 PM
Very good for your first shot. It was about 7 months before I was really able to regain my volume but I seem to be very slow at everything so I suspect your voice should greatly improve over the next month. The pitch an inflection sound feminine but the voice is whispery, possibly do to swelling and as you noted still on the weak side.
Thanks Dena!
What I found interesting was when I was ready to speak, I couldn't and not because I didn't want to, but because I conditioned myself not to speak for so long. I was unsure of what I might sound like and what I should say. It's weird when you've muted yourself for so long and got used to other means of communication. 30 days of silence may not seem like a lot for some, but for others who are used to speaking every day, it's a lot. I learned a lot about people in my silence, too. I observed people's reactions to me, a mute. I could tell who had a good heart and who was an impatient ass.
Many of us take our voices for granted and many of us fear that if we didn't have a voice, we'd lose a part of our identity. I'm glad I was able to make the most of my silence.
I hear you - I also found the experience to be mute for a month very interesting in some ways. I know its odd and all, but in a way i liked it, because it allowed me to learn much about people and communication and being attentive and observative. Sadly I think I forgot a lot of this after over a year now, but I remember some of the things , still.
My 5 week update: So, after an enthusiastic first day of speaking, my second day didn't go so well. My voice sounded strained, as confirmed by others. My third day my voice felt even more strained. After not speaking for so long, I had a lot to say and my enthusiasm got the best of me. Yesterday and today, I forced myself to stop talking so much. I figure things are still healing and I have a long way to go before I start hearing improvements. After long periods of rest (an hour or more), saying a couple of words feels and sounds fine, a couple of words after that and it feels and sounds okay, and then the strained voice comes afterwards. Like many others, there's a volume issue and while speaking over the phone is fine, talking to people face to face in a busy, noisy environment poses a problem. Still, I am glad I don't have the thunderously loud male voice I had before. It seems that when I try to speak louder, I feel a "gritty" sensation in my vocal cords, much like the sensation you get when you speak or shout louder than you should.
Week 5! not yet healed enough to speak loudly and for long periods. Yeson recommend a few short conversations a day in that period up until week 8 when more power can be used and training can begin
Quote from: anjaq on August 24, 2016, 04:38:44 PM
Week 5! not yet healed enough to speak loudly and for long periods. Yeson recommend a few short conversations a day in that period up until week 8 when more power can be used and training can begin
Thanks anjaq! That's good to know. I figured I could talk but not too much. I think my thrill to speak again has now worn off and I could go back to a more usual routine. I'm still quite chatty when I get into a good train of thought, but now I'll have to remember to have my type/speak app ready just in case.
Five weeks is so early, so I'd not worry at all. :) Just take it easier for the next few weeks but be glad you can speak at all. Hoping for the best!
Quote from: Denjin on August 26, 2016, 02:53:48 AM
Five weeks is so early, so I'd not worry at all. :) Just take it easier for the next few weeks but be glad you can speak at all. Hoping for the best!
Thanks Denjin!
WEEK 6 UPDATE: My voice is getting a little stronger, but it sounds strained from time to time, especially after several rapidly spoken sentences (not surprising). Sometimes I push my volume a little too much and my throat feels scratchy, so I back off and let myself rest for a bit. Here's today's Rainbow Passage:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pxSLjOUBF4 (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pxSLjOUBF4)
The voice is a bit breathy, most likely due to the fact healing is still taking place. I suspect you haven't reached your final pitch and you might see another 20Hz. The use of inflection is good even this early after surgery so I suspect the voice will only get better given a bit more time.
Quote from: Dena on August 31, 2016, 06:23:56 PM
The voice is a bit breathy, most likely due to the fact healing is still taking place. I suspect you haven't reached your final pitch and you might see another 20Hz. The use of inflection is good even this early after surgery so I suspect the voice will only get better given a bit more time.
Yes, true true. You can tell that my plosives (the d and b sounds at the beginning of words) are a little pronounced. That's because I'm losing my breath speaking as I speak.
Hopefully, I'll go up a little. I've been testing my pitch with a pitch app and it's dropped a semitone (one note) over the past week or so, but that could be due to me using my voice more than I should.
WEEK 7 UPDATE: Nothing new to report. My voice sounds the same as the previous week. Every day I seem to stress my voice a little too much and I end up with a sore throat. I rest my voice and an hour later I'm okay again. My partner says I sound like Winnie the Pooh sometimes.
Crap I am a year and a couple months out of surgery and I still can tell it is healing.
If I yell a LOT it will drop out at times.
But ohhhhh the voice is awesome.....
Katie
Quote from: Katie on September 11, 2016, 08:48:46 PM
Crap I am a year and a couple months out of surgery and I still can tell it is healing.
If I yell a LOT it will drop out at times.
But ohhhhh the voice is awesome.....
Katie
Your voice is great and you were an inspiration for me to try Dr. Haben again!
Two month voice update: It's been almost two months, so I decided to do The Rainbow Passage again. Here it is...
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0hDm5tMbvxW (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0hDm5tMbvxW)
11.5 week update... A slightly stronger voice than before. Slow, slow progress, but your mileage may vary with your VFS. Here's The Rainbow Passage...
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0XuO9A9zXgM (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0XuO9A9zXgM)
Sounds great. An inspiration.
Geekgirl, wow night and day from your original voice!!!! I have been following your voice feminization journey.... Good thing you did not give up after the 1st surgery,if that was me I would have sworn off VFS ....I am so happy for you... Take care of your voice! Wow! Inspiration!
Thanks Virginia and Miss Lux! I think what's most impressive about this surgery is my lowest notes certainly sound like a woman trying to make a low voice. My highest notes are still squeaky/raspy, but I suspect that'll all improve over time. I miss my singing range from time to time, but after hearing singers who also had a limited vocal range, I'm hopeful.
The odd thing is I'm trying to get used to humming the right pitch because in the past I could more or less do so, but now all the notes are coming out all wrong. I suspect that'll change over time, too, as my muscle memory adjusts to the changes.
I visited Dr. Haben yesterday for my 3 month followup visit (everyone who has had this surgery with Dr. Haben, please remember to do your followup visit... it's very important and one of the reasons why I prefer doing my surgeries closer versus far away). A scoping of my throat shows that the vocal cords have healed up nicely and they are vibrating as they should. As you can see from the pic, there is a bubble up top. That's granulation tissue which will go away slowly but surely. You may remember I had a similar "bumpie" on the left side before. Dr. Haben says these will not affect voice quality. They will just heal on their own.
I told Dr. Haben that people misgendering my voice over the phone is substantially less now than before. The problem for me appears to be I seem to want to speak at a lower pitch because I was used to a lower pitch for many years, so the goal now is to just relax and let the new pitch settle in. He noticed that my voice sounded very thin at this time, but that's to be expected since I'm just three months out. It should sound better and more resonant in a couple of months (which probably means four months for me, since I heal slowly).
All in all, the surgery was a success. It's up to me to do followup voice therapy and just practice using my new voice every day. I'll continue to update this thread in the coming months.
Here is the picture from yesterday's visit...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transvamp.com%2Fsurgery%2FIMG_8219.JPG&hash=4cd880682194e8652a12dc76ab547087f5b73ece)
Is that as close as it gets to a complete closure of the vocal folds? Or does that gap in the middle also close at some point?
I did see it close all the way at times during my recital of The Rainbow Passage, but it looked more like that (a teardrop shaped hole) than not. I suspect that could be contributing to how my voice sounds. It should probably be much higher than what I have now based on how much of my cords have been stitched up.
Ok - so that is a glottal gap there - the issue it can cause is some breathiness and maybe not the volume that you want. I had this before I had the surgery but it was corrected with it. It can be caused by 2 things I know of - either muscle tension (Dr Kim gives Botox for that) because of having learned to sound more breathy deliberately to sound more feminine before the surgery - so that cna be trained out. Or it can be caused by scarring near the tip of the V or U - this is not uncommon with Wendler Glottoplasty, especially when using stitches that dissolve after 4 weeks or if a laser was used to cut the area - one has to hope that the scar tissue at that point will get soft with time or maybe if it is granulation it may recede. I prefer Dr Kims method of not causing much scarring in that area evne if the tradeoff is to have permanent sutures in the throat.
I do notice a strange phenomenon that has happened to someone else in this forum... when my voice is strained from being overused or in recent days due to a cold, my voice sounds like there's this squeaky second version on top of it... as if a mouse is speaking in unison with my own voice. Usually there's a lot of phlegm in my throat.
I also notice that the more calm and relaxed I am, the more easily my voice sounds as it should. However, the more I use my voice during the day, the more it becomes strained and gravitates to a lower pitch. There's still this mental hurdle I have to overcome where I'm subconsciously forcing my voice to pitch down to make it sound like it did pre-surgery.
The people in my life who hear me speak daily don't notice any dramatic changes, but when I play back what my old voice sounded like, they are floored by the difference. In crowded environments, it's very difficult for me to be heard, but as I said in a previous post, that is a welcome change from having to be loud and male-sounding.
It was about month 7 that I felt my volume and endurance start to improve and at a year and 4 months there are still times that I feel I may be overusing it. I try not to use more volume that is required as I feel my voice get a bit rougher if I tend to use higher volume over a long period of time. Healing from this take a long time and I suspect because the geometry of the vocal cords has changed as the result of the surgery, we need to adopt a slightly different way of speaking to properly use the voice for the best results.
6 Month-ish update: I haven't posted in a while, so here is what's happening to me almost 6 months out post-op. I would like to say that there's nothing new to report and progress is happening slowly, but that's not the case. In some cases, progress has regressed, but more due to my own fault than anyone else. Whenever I overuse my voice (e.g. yell something out during a busy bartending night, belt out yoga instructions over music so I can be heard, or scold my kids), it takes about a week or so to recover from it. My voice gets really raspy and almost unusable for the first day or two. It starts getting better a few days later, but then it sounds quite androgynous before it settles down and gets back to normal.
My volume is still very low. Over the phone, it's fine because phone mics amplify your voice, but in person it really is pretty hard to hear me if there is any background noise. I teach yoga with a headset now and it's unlikely I'll be able to do so without a headset from now on. As I stated previously, this is a blessing to me because my loud voice was always one of the factors that negatively impacted my voice passability.
I am a bit sad that the highest note I can reasonably sing right now is C#4 (280Hz). I can go highter, but it crackles. I can sing as low as C#3 (136Hz). My tone without placing my voice is about G3 (199Hz). Placing it I can easily sing A3 (225Hz). But that's a very limited range from what I used to be able to sing. I suppose there's still a lot of healing that needs to take place, so more time has to pass and more forced rest has to take place for me to improve.
Anyways, I'm very hopeful. My voice does sound better now than before.
On another note, has anyone tried Ingo Titze's straw intonation exercises? Will this help my new voice or should I hold off on it?
What was your vocal range before the surgery? I was back to a range of 130-600 Hz at about month 2 and later I recovered most of the upper part, although some remains lost. But 280 Hz as the highest possible note seems pretty low. That is still below the passagio - so you are stuck in the "chest voice" and cannot go over the passagio into the head voice?
One thing I learned was that shouting or speaking loudly now means you have to go up in pitch - there is a reason why girls have a "girlish" scream or squeak - it just works better on these vocal folds. So ifI have to speak up now, I go up in pitch , which gives me more volume and more control over the voice.
I think the straw exercises are similar to the laxvox, designed to keep a constant airflow and take out tension. I believe they are probably a good thing, why not try it - I do not think any harm will be done by them - worst case is you do not see any effect
Yes, 280Hz is the highest note I can reasonably sing without crackling. When I yell, my voice really squeaks. It starts off loud and then when I get too loud it sounds like a high-pitched squeak or yelp, something inhuman and otherworldly, like from a horror movie. It's like the sound my doggie used to make when I accidentally stepped on her tail.
I'm wondering if this has something to do with the first surgery. I had the triple so Dr. Haben did the thing where he pulled the vocal cords tighter through an incision in the neck. At that time, my vocal cords didn't stay attached (hence why my voice didn't change and I needed the second surgery). I wonder if just having the vocal cords tightened and allowing it to heal that way prevents me from getting all of the lost range between 280Hz and the high-pitched squeak/yelp (which is clearly super high in Hz).
Or, maybe I'm a really slow healer and the best is yet to come.
One more thing to consider is from the pics of my vocal cords on the day after surgery, there was a huge scar tissue bump sitting near my vocal cords. I suppose it's possible that this could be affecting my pitch.
The higher pitch was very slow to develop for me. Your vocal cords need to be flexible to hit the higher note and my were swollen for a long time reducing the upper range. For a while, the best I could hit was 500HZ. Somewhere along the line I was playing with my voice and I discovered I could hit 700Hz. I think the remaining swelling went away giving me the additional range.
Dr Haben says healing can take up to 6 months but I suspect for some of us a year is closer to the truth.
Quote from: GeekGirl on January 09, 2017, 08:22:28 AM
Yes, 280Hz is the highest note I can reasonably sing without crackling. When I yell, my voice really squeaks. It starts off loud and then when I get too loud it sounds like a high-pitched squeak or yelp, something inhuman and otherworldly, like from a horror movie. It's like the sound my doggie used to make when I accidentally stepped on her tail.
I'm wondering if this has something to do with the first surgery. I had the triple so Dr. Haben did the thing where he pulled the vocal cords tighter through an incision in the neck. At that time, my vocal cords didn't stay attached (hence why my voice didn't change and I needed the second surgery). I wonder if just having the vocal cords tightened and allowing it to heal that way prevents me from getting all of the lost range between 280Hz and the high-pitched squeak/yelp (which is clearly super high in Hz).
Or, maybe I'm a really slow healer and the best is yet to come.
Geek Girl, I would get a second opinion. At that point post op you should not be experiencing this many problems. In my case, I just kept waiting for months and months for my voice to slowly start coming back... and sadly it never did. It wasn't until I saw another reputable ENT who, after looking at my cords, said that without any doubt the type of scarring I had was permanent and not part of a healing process. Another doctor can tell you what to expect and if there are any options to improve the quality of your voice. Good luck, and hoping the best for you!
Quote from: kwala on January 10, 2017, 01:00:40 AM
Geek Girl, I would get a second opinion. At that point post op you should not be experiencing this many problems. In my case, I just kept waiting for months and months for my voice to slowly start coming back... and sadly it never did. It wasn't until I saw another reputable ENT who, after looking at my cords, said that without any doubt the type of scarring I had was permanent and not part of a healing process. Another doctor can tell you what to expect and if there are any options to improve the quality of your voice. Good luck, and hoping the best for you!
I'm not going to be quick to jump to any conclusions yet because it took a year for my GRS wounds to heal due to necrosis and other problems. So far, the surgery that has caused the least trouble and has given me the most satisfactory results is my breast augmentation, but that's a relatively easy surgery compared to the others. There are some days in which I can hear my voice and think "Wow, this sounds really nice" and then there are other days when I've overused my voice the day before and end up sounding like Demi Moore with a cold. One positive note of encouragement is last night after my yoga class, one of my students said to me, "You have such a calm, soothing voice!" I haven't heard that kind of compliment in many months.
6 Month voice sample: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KIfkmnI1OY (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KIfkmnI1OY)
Hi Geek Girl,
I hear your voice as androgynous at times and very female at times in your recording -- this according to my untrained ear.
Curiously, I think you really sound the best (great, really) at the end of your recording, from the spot at which you mention that your voice gets tired and gravel-y. I don't hear the gravel at all, I just hear a woman's voice.
I am about 7 weeks since my surgery with Dr. Haben. Still a lot of laryngitis sound. I'll be pretty happy if I can sound like you in another 4 1/2 months.
The inflection sound good but your pitch is still on the low side. If you are not already, you will still need to use a head voice in order to move your voice into the feminine range. You should be working with Praat or a pitch meter in order to get your ear used to the correct pitch and in case you don't already know it, the following link will tell you what to look for.
http://www.nyspeechandvoicelab.net/transgender/voice-feminization/
Quote from: GeekGirl on January 27, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
I'm not going to be quick to jump to any conclusions yet because it took a year for my GRS wounds to heal due to necrosis and other problems. So far, the surgery that has caused the least trouble and has given me the most satisfactory results is my breast augmentation, but that's a relatively easy surgery compared to the others. There are some days in which I can hear my voice and think "Wow, this sounds really nice" and then there are other days when I've overused my voice the day before and end up sounding like Demi Moore with a cold. One positive note of encouragement is last night after my yoga class, one of my students said to me, "You have such a calm, soothing voice!" I haven't heard that kind of compliment in many months.
Geekgirl,
I hope you are doing well...my experience is similar - it varies from day to day . There are days that I sound really good and there are days that I too sound like Demi Moore with a cold but I would'nt exchange it for my old voice... Now I can talk without thinking of placing my voice... Even on it's worse state it is passable/ feminine enough....U r one of my VFS inspiration :). Take care !.... I listened to ur 6th month recording.... D rainbow passage is on the androgynous to neautral zone but when u were talking casually it sounded feminine to me and compared to your pre surgery voice for me it is a huge improvement....
Thank you kind ladies!
Yes, I'm quite aware of the androgyny in my voice, especially when I read things like the Rainbow Passage and even on the phone sometimes. I think I know why. I think it's ingrained in me to read things a certain way and talk over the phone a certain way. I have to shake myself out of old habits. I think the best way to describe the times when my voice sounds androgynous is imagine a female voice pitched lower. It sounds a little weird and people can't really tell what gender I am unless I add lots of intonation, inflection, and proper movement/phrasing. Dr. Haben told me "you just gotta' relax and let the new voice come out." I think the biggest problem I have is my brain is still wired to try to eke out the old voice within the confines of the new voice. I don't want this to happen, but sometimes it happens.
I noticed that my best voice comes out when I'm not talking very loudly. The problem with this is most of the time I'm required to talk loudly, especially to the people I interact with daily (I'm in IT support during the day and I teach yoga on Thursday nights). That puts a strain on my voice and then I feel as if all the healing that's happened was for naught... like 2 steps forward and 1 or 2 steps back every day.
(to KimSails) Thanks Kim! I believe when I'm just talking, I'm relaxed, so that's when my best voice comes out. Best wishes to your healing!
(to Dena) You hit the nail right on the head. I've not been using my head voice much or at all since my surgery. I think I've taken a lot of things for granted so far because in the early stages (about 1-2 months out) when I started talking I had this nice pitch going in my voice and that was because I wasn't straining my voice at all. My mentors in yoga are always telling me "You have to teach using your chest voice!" so that's a little ingrained in me to just use the old ways of speaking that I'm familiar with. I know, I have to stop doing that.
(to Miss Lux) Thanks for making me one of your VFS inspirations! There is not a day that goes by where I feel any regrets with doing VFS. It was a necessary surgery for me.
I worry about voice strain too with my upcoming VFS. Like you Geekgirl, I have to speak up a lot in my job (as a consultant) and through my role as a coach. I am hoping that the post surgical voice training will help me to maintain that "head voice" when I am projecting my voice to the back seats, as my old theater director use to tell us.
I did hear that it takes time and a lot of work. Once I have some results, I will also post them for y'all. :)