they became sexually interested in you? I remember not being in a hurry to "grow up" and date people, unlike a lot of kids I knew. I didn't even get physically close to someone for a very long time, and only then allowed them into my personal space because they were already a good friend. Otherwise I was strictly off limits to everyone, and the way people usually approached me didn't help change that.
What I wonder is, have FTM here experienced what they would call normal approaches from people, or do you think they sensed something about you and acted in a strange way about it? (I mean when they didn't actually know you were trans, you were not out, presenting target gender etc.).
I recall several incidents where - men mostly - tried to crowbar their way into my space and they stand out as the most awkward, pathetic and downright creepy attempts to "get close" to a person I've ever seen or heard of. Do you think in your experience as FTM that people - on any part of the gender spectrum - approach you differently than your cis colleagues or counterparts? Or did they act what you would call normally? Or do you think they saw you differently and approached you differently than they would cis people?
I'm trying to make sense of several incidents in the past in which I would say people acted "furtively" and "guiltily" when trying to approach me. Definitely not in the way my female work colleagues would have been approached. And I bear in mind I was approached quite often, despite not wanting this attention and doing nothing whatever to solicit it. I wonder if our demeanor and way of acting in public because of being trans - when not presenting as the target gender - makes us seem or appear defensive or some kind of target. And that in turn attracting very much the wrong sort of approaches?
I could of course be wrong, which is why I'm asking for more views and experiences. I hope some of you have had better experiences than me.
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on July 20, 2016, 08:01:23 AM
they became sexually interested in you? I remember not being in a hurry to "grow up" and date people, unlike a lot of kids I knew. I didn't even get physically close to someone for a very long time, and only then allowed them into my personal space because they were already a good friend. Otherwise I was strictly off limits to everyone, and the way people usually approached me didn't help change that.
What I wonder is, have FTM here experienced what they would call normal approaches from people, or do you think they sensed something about you and acted in a strange way about it? (I mean when they didn't actually know you were trans, you were not out, presenting target gender etc.).
I recall several incidents where - men mostly - tried to crowbar their way into my space and they stand out as the most awkward, pathetic and downright creepy attempts to "get close" to a person I've ever seen or heard of. Do you think in your experience as FTM that people - on any part of the gender spectrum - approach you differently than your cis colleagues or counterparts? Or did they act what you would call normally? Or do you think they saw you differently and approached you differently than they would cis people?
I'm trying to make sense of several incidents in the past in which I would say people acted "furtively" and "guiltily" when trying to approach me. Definitely not in the way my female work colleagues would have been approached. And I bear in mind I was approached quite often, despite not wanting this attention and doing nothing whatever to solicit it. I wonder if our demeanor and way of acting in public because of being trans - when not presenting as the target gender - makes us seem or appear defensive or some kind of target. And that in turn attracting very much the wrong sort of approaches?
I could of course be wrong, which is why I'm asking for more views and experiences. I hope some of you have had better experiences than me.
Hmm, interesting question. I still present as female and I'm single for some time, and haven't pursued the dating thing for some time for various reasons, including what I realise now is the whole gender dysphoria thing with me keeping people away. I'm also not a fan of dating at the best of times. I've been in three serious relationships in my life, though, and these are folks I got to know over time.
Anyway, in the last six months or so, I found that I would get angry when men showed interest in me. After some thinking more recently, it's because I want to be perceived as male by other men--and attractive to other men as a man. Anyway, the more recent stuff.... One guy in particular was a serious case of friend-zoning where this guy was constantly invading my physical space, boundaries, even poking me. I kind of lost it on him. He seemed to feel very entitled to me. Another guy was way too interested too, when I've given him nothing to encourage him, but he's fairly persistent too. From this guy I get the 'my lady' and all sorts of... stuff. I'm keeping it polite here. Both are creepy, and this is higher than my usual creep ratio, but there you go. I think maybe it's something about being distant that makes them pursue harder? Dunno. I've encouraged neither one - quite the opposite.
I don't know if it also an age thing, since I'm in my late 30s and there's less of a dating pool to pick from, so they feel more entitled? That I should jump at the chance to be chosen by these guys, lucky me? That said, there's some other great guys that I know through my community/friends, who are awesome and just friends, and leave me alone.
Right now, I feel so awkward I don't even know where to begin with dating as a queer trans guy. Like it wasn't tough enough before. At least I'm getting a haircut today, that'll help me look more the part...
O my gosh, that beginning sentence is me too. I was confused why all the kids my age wanted to date and be adults. In fact, When I started having attractions to people in Eighth grade I imagined it like a werewolf transformation, kind of unwanted, lol.
I dont think Ive ever been hit on by strangers, most people Ive been hit on I vaguely knew. Besides that, at times in my past being transgender was kind of dormant inside me, so to everyone I was female and I thought Iwas to myself too, so Id only ever get males.
Im curious if Im ever going to be hit on by females now that I pass
To be honest I think people randomly hitting on each other is a myth. I have not experienced this besides with friends.
I never wanted to be lonely, so in my early days when I was trans I would state my sex and gender, because being trans kind of sucks regarding dating. In a way Im neither a guy nor a girl, sadly. I just dont fit either and Im stuck.
Now that I went full trans, not just the silly pronouns, Ive gotten more serious about this and decided Im going to forgo romantic attractions if it means I can be myself. It foesnt matter and its really not a big deal if I do or dont. Sure, I'll miss some things I long for but I have other things to occupy my life. Besides that, Ive recently learned a lot of bi people out there may still find me attractive. just as Ive learned myself I too find other transgender people like myself attractive.
Im lucky though, I currently live with a roommate who has my heart. We're not dating because of a whole set of complications and reasons, I guess. But we proactively act as if we were a couple, so its nice. I get to cuddle her and stuff and I get as much support and care from her as I try to do for her. Dont know how long it'll last but its a good relationship, if a substitute for an 'official' one. I dont know, I guess I dont mind not being married or together if I have plenty of good friends to fall back on
I have cis (as far as I know) female friends that were hit on a lot more often by a lot stranger people than ever hit on me, so I'm not sure if I can see a definite pattern. They weren't shy or defensive girls either.
It probably is true though that some people do pick on others that they perceive as shy or weak, but there's also the fact that people that are perceived as female will get unwanted attention regardless of demeanor or fashion sense. i don't know if i can draw correlations between what we were wearing/ acting like when I was a part of a group of 'girls' that used to get harassed - or even where we were, as it ranged from the street, to nightclubs to supermarkets to art galleries...
I don't think the problem is with us. I think that regardless of gender for every person who likes their space, there is another who has no concept of personal space
I've experienced women coming onto me a few times. Smiling a lot, maybe too much for how well we know each other. It happens.
Men come up like they want to have a conversation but really they just see me as a girl and I get really ragey.
I feel like a hypocrite getting furious at men for coming onto me but it makes me very dysphoric because it's in a heterosexual way. Gay men don't hit on me.
I wasn't approached at all until I was about 15 or so. I looked much older than my age though, already at 13 I had people thinking I was in college, so I don't think it had to do with my age. Around 15 I had a few guys hit on me. All of which I had just met, they never knew me for longer than just a few hours at the most. They did it like they would on a girl, so in a heterosexual way. I can hardly blame them though, looking back at pictures. It always made me feel uncomfortable. Never really attracted any girls until I sort of half figured out that I was trans and cut my hair short, started dressing more masculine. Then suddenly I had a bunch of girls after me. I guess they treated me like a girl too, though it was less obvious since they expected me to be the more masculine one as opposed to the guys who had hit on me earlier. It was much less uncomfortable though I still did have this slight sense of unease about it. Since they did see me as a girl.
After coming out for real and socially transitioning, I had one girl come onto me, of which I'm not sure whether she knows or not. There was a definite change in behavior there, though that could have just been because of her personality. She was just sort of hinting at me instead of taking the initiative like the lesbian girls I had met previously. She also hinted at knowing about me being trans but I can't be sure about it. She definitely didn't treat me like a girl though. Gender roles also seem to be more strict in heterosexual relationships so I guess it's to be expected that she wanted me to take the initiative. Other than that, there's this occasional jokingly flirting I do with guys (who knows why, since I'm not really attracted to them). Sometimes they reciprocate in the same jokingly way. Unlike before with the heterosexual guys, I don't find this uncomfortable or disturbing at all. I'd be fine with it even if they did mean it seriously. I think it's pretty obvious it's because of the shift in how they behave towards me. The guys I met before were by no means disrespectful and were never rude to me, it's just that they treated me delicately, expected me to be feminine and what not. The guys now don't expect me to be very feminine or take on any submissive roles. They just go with what they get. Like with lesbians, there's a lot less gender role conforming stuff going on. That being said, none of them ever know I'm trans either. So I can't really answer your question about being approached with people knowing about it.
I'm a celibate virgin, I don't like the whole dating thing either and I'm pre-trans currently. I've had a few guy friends "catch feelings" for me if that's the correct term in my late teens despite outing myself to them. It always ended messily, and I regret not making up with the last one since he died this past January from MS. The most recent one was the only friend I made when I moved to BC and he asked me to hang out at the movies and I told him before even going that I was planning on transitioning this year and that I was a gay guy. He seemed fine with it and he was pretty cool, but I don't think it actually went through because he treated our get togethers like dates, so I cowardly broke off contact with him. I've become an expert at "reading the signs" and body language and usually can tell when a male is attracted to me. I'm not so good with women though.
I've gone back to having no local friends, and I'm comfortable with that, and I make sure to keep an arm's length between me and other people until I pass and can go stealth.
The idea that people would be attracted to me after passing doesn't bother me as much since I'll just take it as a compliment that I'm attractive enough for people to want, but right now it's horrible because they just see a chick and it puts me in an awkward place with extra drama that I don't need in my life.
A tip for pre-trans guys that have a lot of guy friends like I did. They most likely are attracted to you. They did a study between women and men, and hetero men usually only become friends with females that they would be comfortable having sex with. I learned that the hard way and made the same mistake a few times until I realized I couldn't have a platonic relationship with hetero guys until after my transition.
This is a quick google search on the study: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2015/10/20/can-men-and-women-just-be-friends/
I've never started a relationship since discovering I'm trans; I never will. I also didn't get very interested in dating when my peers did. I've only in my life had 2 relationships. It really does seem possible that both of them could have been influenced by my gender. The first girl was terrible. [Trigger Warning] I think she perceived me like some kind of victim, and she controlled, beat, insulted, and raped me. That was awful and I would have happily never been in any romantic relationship again. Then I met my wife and it felt like divine intervention, she's the one thing I've always needed in life, especially then, and right now. If she left me, I'd always be waiting for her to come back. (Also have never been "hit on" once.) So it's true that I am trans* and I have never been in a romantic relationship that I would consider typical.
Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on July 20, 2016, 10:44:50 AM
To be honest I think people randomly hitting on each other is a myth. I have not experienced this besides with friends.
Definitely not a myth to be randomly hit on, with the other person actually thinking they have a chance with a random encounter, at least. I've had work colleagues I had barely spoken to and whose names I didn't even know decide it was a good idea to go full on, or full overt creep mode. I mean like, sidle up to me, get into a conversation shallower than a paddling pool and then ask when we were going to bed together - with a straight face. And worse, which I won't go into. I had a landlord that happened to be fixing my front door do it as well... after inviting himself into my flat.
I can't respond to this kind of behavior in any positive way. I have known friends who've sat at bus stops and such and sparked up charged conversations leading to dates apparently, but that isn't something I could imagine doing. I suppose you have to meet someone somewhere, but it would never occur to me to slide up to someone I barely know and say "hey, wanna fornicate?" so when someone else tries it, it doesn't work for me. Plus there's the distasteful fact thought they were saying it to a woman.
I guess maybe that's why I only became involved with people who I already knew for years. They'd have had an opportunity to see what my personality was really like and at least would have had to accept that. Interestingly, having the most un-feminine personality on the planet perhaps doesn't dissuade most from thinking the "fact" is that you're female, so all your behavior is colored and kind of masked by this belief they have. They see femininity in the most un-feminine things. Very strange.
Mod Edit:Language
Creepy people v.v
I had a phase at the beginning of this year when I passed ~80% of the time (manlier hair). I had two separate encounters when I was walking my dog in a park near my house where two different middle-aged men went out of their way to catch up to me - I kept mixing up my route to see if they were following me, and they were. One of them followed me for at least a mile, doubling back the way he'd come just to keep on my tail.
Once they caught me, they both stopped me as if to start a conversation, but neither had anything to say. They just stood there doing the looking-you-up-and-down-while-smiling-creepily thing to demonstrate their interest. Bearing in mind - on top of the fact they were stalking me - I looked at the oldest 15/16, it was super creepy.
They may have guessed I was trans. They may have just thought I was a boy. Either way, it was very dodgy. I no longer walk the dog on that route.
I've had a few more interactions like that, but it's worth saying, the guys I attracted when presenting female were as creepy as the men I seem to attract now. They were just younger. It's also worth saying that back then, ALL of them had fetishes for short girls (the apparent reason for their interest). And I've observed that people with fetishes tend to be creepier in their approach than people without fetishes (or people who can contain their fetishes). So if one were to be out, or visibly trans, and a person with a fetish for trans people happened to notice them, that could well explain the creepier-than-average approach.
Also, trans people tend to be hypersexualised in the media - some people assume we're all "at it" all the time, some people want to "try" a trans person. I've had a female friend assume I'd be open to a threesome now that I'm out as trans, despite me telling her I'm either gay or asexual +_+ and then there's that "but you should be flattered by my attention" reaction when you don't want to jump into their beds.
But, plenty of people are just creepy because they don't know any better. Most AMAB men haven't grown up under the threat of rape in the way AFAB people have - some just don't understand how threatening their behaviour can be.
I have found less interest in women and more from men... But the attention I've often gotten from men is very sexual and some don't really hide the fact they're ->-bleeped-<-s. This is mostly from dating sites though... My voice is only just starting to drop and I tend to get read as a masculine woman on the street (I'm 5 months on T).
I lived as non binary for years and had to block straight people on dating sites. I found online and offline, men were way more aggressive and entitled when they thought I was a woman. The few times I've been attracted to men, since being out as a man, I have found more forwardness, but less aggressiveness. I don't know if that makes sense..
I hang out a lot in queer spaces when I actually have free time (not often), so the attention I've gotten there is different to more cis spaces. People have seemed more respectful and gentle with me, BUT I think consent and feminism is big in the spaces I go to and people are mindful of that.
Entitled - yeah that's a good word to describe some of the people who approached me.
Come to think of it, all the people who acted this way were people who I had met, but only in the most vague way (like I barely knew their names, or sometimes didn't). People I did know better and had actually had conversations did not act this way. The more I had talked to them and the better I knew them, the less entitled they would act.
I'm not really talking about someone innocently chatting someone up - I'm talking about people literally acting like I had made some deal to knock boots when I hadn't done or said anything at all. Makes me wonder if the worst kinds of behavior/delusion tends to come when the person is a relative stranger. Maybe they feel that point is the least risk or commitment for them and validates acting in this way because they can just walk away. No friend or emotional connection has been made, so boom - it's perfectly okay to treat someone like a piece of meat, in their thinking. I dunno.
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on July 26, 2016, 04:59:59 PM
Entitled - yeah that's a good word to describe some of the people who approached me.
Come to think of it, all the people who acted this way were people who I had met, but only in the most vague way (like I barely knew their names, or sometimes didn't). People I did know better and had actually had conversations did not act this way. The more I had talked to them and the better I knew them, the less entitled they would act.
I'm not really talking about someone innocently chatting someone up - I'm talking about people literally acting like I had made some deal to knock boots when I hadn't done or said anything at all. Makes me wonder if the worst kinds of behavior/delusion tends to come when the person is a relative stranger. Maybe they feel that point is the least risk or commitment for them and validates acting in this way because they can just walk away. No friend or emotional connection has been made, so boom - it's perfectly okay to treat someone like a piece of meat, in their thinking. I dunno.
Yep, totally with you on the entitled stuff. I don't think you're putting anything out there to attract this. They're projecting their ideas (I think) of what they believe men should do--chase women aggressively. Both of the folks who have done this with me seem to have social disorders, for starters...
For me, it's coming from people who don't know me at all but they think they do from my public persona. And are overly familiar even though I don't really know these people. They both seem to have this whole scenario worked out in their heads that they've worked and it has nothing to do with me or signals I've put out there. It's like they feel they have a right to me, and I should behave as expected in a role. It's totally messed up. Doesn't happen with folks who know me in real life, either. It's really creepy. With one of them I got a bit scared physically because he wouldn't leave me alone in the interest--get this--for my 'safety'. Like I need defending walking to my car a block away in a busy area. He wouldn't listen to me and I was furious, and that was just one incident with this specific person.
Haven't read the whole thread yet - but I'm afraid I have to say I've been 'approached' in the typical way by men. Not much experience on that since been in a loooong relationship - but just based on my overall experiences throughout life. I always get this sulky feeling I'm read as a woman and feel like punching that guy. Then again - who would like cheesy hitting on or borderline sexual harrassment in the first place? I can't really tell if my vibes have influenced their behavior in the least. It's more like - I'm perplexed and enranged that they are not able to see me as a guy as they should! I'm more shocked if anything if anyone takes an interest in me as a 'woman' ;D! That's so not me!!! They don't know what they're getting themselves into.
If anything, guys might have thought I could be an easy ****. That's partially true in general, coz I have a straight-forward guy mentality on sex - like they do! Unfortunately I'm not even into guys... If a gay guy came hitting on me that I could take as a compliment! But when a creepy straight guy does that when he somehow sees me as a woman - man, you're looking for trouble!
I have mostly been friend zoned by men and women. Came out as bisexual at 13. Told the cutest girl in school she was cutest in school. Unlucky me, she was my best friend until that moment. Not after.
I did not get that thing about dating. I got a boyfriend when I was 17. But I was living with a woman. Big mess of jelausy and crying. I thought we were just friends. She tought otherwise.
Then I met my husband and left her.
But I have always felt like an imposter. Not being my true self and fooling everyone to believe I am someting I am not. Maybe it is me who chose not to get intimate. Me sending signals that I'm not interested.
Today I get bro fists and hugs with back pats from co workers, the guys. The girls....we don't touch.
Tony
I haven't been not out and presenting as my target gender at the same time, meaning before I came out I presented as my birth gender, then made a total switch in my presentation upon coming out as trans, and then I was out to everyone. So my answer may not be applicable.
I still lived as female, and very femininely so, up until I almost turned 20. So I was like, 19 years and 11 months. Before coming out I started getting such attention rather late, when I was 17. I wished it had come a lot sooner and was eager to start dating and having sex as soon as that became available. I was very much in a hurry to grow up, cause I wanted to escape my horrible childhood, become independent and have my own autonomy. Adulthood wasn't just something I saw as an escape from my childhood, but was something that intrigued me. I was always mature for my age, and yearned for finding love and such adventures, at least since around age 8-10. But being bullied and very unpopular kept me from exploring that in my most of my teens.
After I started getting such attention though, still pre-transition, I was treated as a cis girl, cause I guess that's how I, probably quite obviously, appeared. And had a couple of "straight" relationships, with cis guys.
However, after coming out, I got a lot more "intense" (for lack of a better word), approaches from guys that were interested in me. It's only ever been other men showing sexual interest in me. Women have only seen me as a friend, or potentially cute enough to kiss at parties but never anything beyond that. I am gay but have been curious about/mildly into women before. With men it's been very mixed approaches throughout my transition. Some have pitied me, while others exotified me, while yet others have just seen me as a walking p*ssy and not cared about the rest it was attached to. But also a lot have been into me for a variety of reasons and just not been bothered by the trans aspect.
But then I'm also sure that my own perspective and approach to other men has shaped how they in turn approach me. I've always been very "out there", wild and open for all kinds of suggestions, especially sexual. Despite having dysphoria, I've always been very... suggestive, and confident in how I present myself. And I think that those kind of vibes I let off have a tendency to attract certain kinds of people who are perhaps a bit more direct and blunt with their advances. Cause, erhm, I guess I'm more or less known to be into that.
For me, I have definitely felt like somewhat of a target in the dating world, for better and worse, but perhaps not in the same way you described. Since coming out I've felt more vulnerable, exotified, judged, sexualised. But strangely that's also my card up my sleeve I can play to my advantage as well, cause there are definitely two sides to the coin of knowing I have something extra that attracts other people, but also objectifies me a lot, all things considered. I'm that weird kind of person who gets hit on by really weird, creepy guys but then also goes along with them all the way. Yeah, I get enjoyment from it, and a lot of strange stories to tell at parties. Most "creeps" seem to really just be socially awkward guys who didn't get much luck with their looks either, and not actually dangerous. A lot of them are really sweet, and surprisingly good in bed. So I give them a chance and I'm glad that I do.
So eh... how I'm approached since living as my target gender, is probably not exactly typical. But then neither is my approach to them. But I enjoy it, so I'm not complaining.
i've been hit on by trans fetishists before and it's awful. the majority of men i've met who are sexually interested in ftm people class themselves as straight with a preference for 'butch women/women who look like men'. it's incredibly degrading and just makes me sad :(
Quote from: virtualverny on April 11, 2018, 08:39:54 AM
i've been hit on by trans fetishists before and it's awful. the majority of men i've met who are sexually interested in ftm people class themselves as straight with a preference for 'butch women/women who look like men'. it's incredibly degrading and just makes me sad :(
I wouldn't say that's the majority of men that have been sexually interested in me, but I understand that's your experience. Bisexual men who don't really care so much about others' gender, or want the "best of both worlds" seem to be the majority that have been hitting on me. Then some gay men too, which always surprises me positively. The few straight men who've hit on me... didn't know what they were getting themselves into. They either regretted it afterwards or backed away before it even got that far, or they struggled to accept their attraction to me, and they were always drunk.
(I believe Kylo has me on ignore, but I'm going to reply anyways.)
When I was a teenager I usually had creepy guys develop a fixation on me. My first experience with a crush involved a guy who professed his "love" to me at the ripe age of 12 in a really creepy way, and that kind of colored most of my interactions afterward. My self-esteem was also decimated by puberty, so I hated and felt alienated by my body, and didn't trust anyone who was interested it in any way. Add to that my difficulty in asserting personal boundaries and... I wound up attracting a lot of predatory types who thought they could get away with whatever. My tactic was to play dead, basically: use body language to make myself unattractive, shrug and mumble a lot, talk about how I mostly stayed home and spent my weekends on the computer, overemphasize how boring I was. That usually did a good job of ending conversations and killing attraction.
After that I started trying to take ownership of my body, dress nicely as I was going to college and wanted to have some kind of a chance at successful industry networking, but I didn't get my first kiss until I was 20. I wound up marrying the guy, and we're still together.
Over the past several years, I got to hear a lot through the grapevine about how my husband's friend or a friend-of-a-friend thought I was hot when we first met at some social gathering or whatever (married, so I'm assumed to be off-limits), and my interest in stereotypically masculine things like cars, camping, WWII stuff, certain male-dominated music genres, and my all-around interest in getting my hands dirty usually impresses them like I'm some kind of trick pony. For some reason, men like masculine women a lot, so long as they don't cross certain boundaries, like having armpit hair.
My boss at work has crushed on me since the day I was interviewed pretty much, and his flirting is creepy. Though moreso because he tries to hide it because he knows I'm married and he's a coward, rather than because I'm "the manliest girl he knows" and he has some kind of weird fetish for it or internalized shame. I know for a fact that he also will only really interact with me when others are around; when it's just the two of us working together, he's almost completely silent and he avoids even being near me. I probably scare the pants off him.
Girls flirt with me a lore more openly, and a lot less pretentiously. I always appreciate getting hit on by women because I just take it as a compliment, and it usually takes a lot more gumption for a woman to approach you than a man. Though I did have my first #metoo moment at work with an older woman customer who came up from behind me to give me a big, completely inappropriate, bear hug. I guess the more I'm perceived as being a lesbian, the more I'll start to be treated by women like men have usually done to me, and I'll have to revisit the "compliment" interpretation of being flirted with. :U