Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Just curious, I'm 33 months in and I still hear comments , but I also receive compliments and smiles. I'm too far past the point of no return.

I'm a little unsure of how to answer your question. Do you mean physical or social transition?

I will never stop taking HRT, or go back to pretending to be male personality-wise. But if I were clocked constantly there's a pretty good chance I would stick to male/andro clothing.

But I'm also incredibly weak - I care way too much and base too much of my practically non-existent self-worth on the approval of others. Someone with a healthier attitude could not pass and get along just fine in this world.

My transition is all about me.  Sure it would be nice to not be clocked.  But at my age, that's probably not realistic.  So, I'm going to transition no matter what because it's what I want.  If other people don't like the way I look, ____ 'em. 

I am not going to hold back on my transition for fear of maybe (or maybe not) getting clocked.  And if I get through my transition and like the results, I'm sure as heck not going back just because someone clocked me.

I'm sure I get clocked plenty, even if people don't say so. And as far as looks go I'd say I'm really really lucky as is.

I think it should be obvious to anyone that I'm a woman :/ even if someone were to clock me. And it doesn't mean much. What matters is how my family, the guy I love, my friends etc and the people I fill my life with look at me. Not strangers.

All you can do is try your hardest and be the best you can be. And hormones, surgeries etc can help a lot. I think I've had a successful transition this far but I'm def not done yet! Regardless at 3 years on HRT, living my entire adult life as female, being accepted by everyone in my life, being legally female etc...going back would never even cross my mind as a possibility, no matter what.

It used to happen all the time, when I had an Adam's apple. It never made me rethink transition. I sure as heck ain't gonna rethink it now.

Quote from: KathyLauren on July 29, 2016, 10:28:33 AM
My transition is all about me.  Sure it would be nice to not be clocked.  But at my age, that's probably not realistic.  So, I'm going to transition no matter what because it's what I want.  If other people don't like the way I look, ____ 'em. 

I am not going to hold back on my transition for fear of maybe (or maybe not) getting clocked.  And if I get through my transition and like the results, I'm sure as heck not going back just because someone clocked me.

Attagirl!  Damn right!

Um...  I have a remarkably similar attitude.  Must be part of the wisdom that comes with age.  (I'm 62...)

Quote from: yayo on July 29, 2016, 11:49:59 AM
I'm sure I get clocked plenty, even if people don't say so. And as far as looks go I'd say I'm really really lucky as is.

I think it should be obvious to anyone that I'm a woman :/ even if someone were to clock me. And it doesn't mean much. What matters is how my family, the guy I love, my friends etc and the people I fill my life with look at me. Not strangers.

All you can do is try your hardest and be the best you can be. And hormones, surgeries etc can help a lot. I think I've had a successful transition this far but I'm def not done yet! Regardless at 3 years on HRT, living my entire adult life as female, being accepted by everyone in my life, being legally female etc...going back would never even cross my mind as a possibility, no matter what.

Agreed, as someone else who has spent their entire adult life as a female in society I could careless at this point really, like every now and again it crosses my mind but its really not a worry anymore. Back when I first started transition, I went into thinking I was never going to have the life I have now. I went in fully knowing that I might always be clocked or whatever but my happiness is way more important than some stranger's judgement. Then again I've also been really lucky with how things turned out so I can't really comment if I was still unpassable like I was in my earliest days of transition, its easy for me not to care nowadays. There's so many little factors that go into this topic of clocking and passing, that I'm not really qualified to speak on since I'm not dealing with the same realities others are facing despite going through those same challenges back then.

My answer sure changed over time. Back almost 40 years ago I would have have hoped for never being clocked. At 6ft tall in an age and world willed with 5'4" women I could not help but to stand out. Being a big fat stuttering, mouth breathing, 4-eyed, knuckle dragging idiot I grew up standing out, and it was NOT a good thing. Both of my transition experiments came to an end.

It would be easy to say "Being clocked" was why. The truth is there is no way I can ever not be clocked. Today, as long as I don't get openly laughed at, it's OK. Even then, no violence is OK. Too long of a stare I chalk up to "I look damn good for an old bat" especially in a world filled with women who gave up on being women long ago.

Back almost 40 years ago I was not happy being me, being who and what I am. A few years of really difficult work totally turned that around

I used to think 0%.  I'm weighing that now and reconsidering although I am having a hard time coming to an answer. 

I cannot stop HRT and go back to what was before.  That is not even a remote option to consider. 

I had thought I could just skate along the thin line in between and all would be well.  And I'm not really having any issues doing that right now.  Life is good.  Except . . . I am finding it increasingly dissatisfying.   

So, at the moment it is to be determined.

If getting clocked influences a person's personhood, then they're most likely not transsexual.

I don't think it affects anyone's personhood.  It's more a matter of not wanting to be publicly degraded or ridiculed.  For some that may not matter at all.  Maybe they have stronger characters than I do?

When I was 13 my parents told me I was sick, twisted, and crazy.  For better or worse, those words still affect me after all this time.  I fear repeating that experience.

I understand that and I didn't mean it to insult anyone. I know as much as anyone how difficult things are when it comes to socialising. I was born with one testicle, so I had no choice but to be this way. I tried being as boyish as possible when I was a kid, even though at home and publically I'd tend to default to wearing girlish clothing and makeup, and I was ridiculed and told by upperclassmen that they thought I was a girl dressed like a boy. I'm kind of a shy person but I also have lotsa confidence too and I can be outgoing at times too. I've always had many friends, mostly when I was younger of course, but I grew up an only child and I've always had the inner gravitas to be myself regardless of what others think. I replied on another thread about how someone should be honest and upfront at their new place of employment. I just philosophically believe in tuning out the rhetoric and living my life.

At this point (19 years after going full time and 18 years post-op) going back is not really an option! ;)

When I started out I wanted very much to be able to pass 100%. I  knew what it could mean for the texture of my life... but I feared (for good reason) that i could not get anywhere close to that... but obviously I went ahead anyway.

I got closer than I expected to,  but I do do get read sometimes... Hard to put a percentage on it because you only  know when you are read when it's very obvious...

One plus is that times have changed and in many places the penalties for getting read are MUCH less than they used to be. I found the on-line community in the late 80's and heard the problems of those who came before me that could not go stealth....  and it scared the daylights out of me...

But by the time I transitioned (1997), times had already changed enough that I did not lose my job etc etc.

Passing, blending, assimilating (whatever you call it) results in a life that is potentially significantly different than if you don't... But these days (at least in enough places) passing close to 100% is not necessary for survival in the world.

So if you don't think you will ever get close to 100%, the question you need to answer for yourself is :
Do you think you will be happier as woman than not, passable or not...

That was a much harder question to answer in the past, as the consequence of not passing were far worst.

- Karen

I plan to continue to transition whether I get clocked or not. That said, I would prefer to be less clockable and I seek to attain some degree of passing privilege, thereby avoiding discrimination.

I did weigh things up before I started transitioning and decided I was going ahead regardless. So far, any progress I've made so far in transition has made me increasingly comfortable in my skin, regardless of whether I pass or not.

i honestly dont give a ->-bleeped-<- about what others think. im comfortable in my own skin and i dont need people denying my life based on how well or not i blend into society. i would NEVER ever detransition, that's unthinkable for me. i make my own happiness and its not contingent on what others believe/say about me. i'll continue plowing through life head on as i've always had.

Quote from: Micki on July 30, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
If getting clocked influences a person's personhood, then they're most likely not transsexual.

Scared to hear you when you're pulling your punches.

I give a real ->-bleeped-<- about what others think, in terms of how I present myself physically, in terms of my clothing, in terms of what my flat looks like, in terms of the quality of work I think is acceptable to hand in. I seriously give a ->-bleeped-<- about it all being the best possible. Who wants to make a bad impression?

It's not so much percentages and clocking that's the problem, it's pity. 'Oh poor thing, tough gig, what a life' - insults you can answer back, but pity, that's just horrible.

Quote from: alex82 on July 30, 2016, 08:55:27 PM
I give a real ->-bleeped-<- about what others think, in terms of how I present myself physically, in terms of my clothing, in terms of what my flat looks like, in terms of the quality of work I think is acceptable to hand in. I seriously give a ->-bleeped-<- about it all being the best possible. Who wants to make a bad impression?

It's not so much percentages and clocking that's the problem, it's pity. 'Oh poor thing, tough gig, what a life' - insults you can answer back, but pity, that's just horrible.

That's a good point.  While I don't care about being clocked so much, I really hate the idea of someone 'Oh, poor thing'ing me.  I had been presenting in public in a style I call "Grandma goes shopping", white or denim jeans or culottes, sneakers, T shirt or similar, and open blousy cover or cardigan over that.   It's The Uniform for the 60 and older set around here out Power Walking the mall.  :P

I've decided I wasn't showing myself enough respect.  As a retired professional, I'm kicking it up to the look I typically see among professionals, the engineering managers, senior office folks and whatnot that I saw for a number of years.  Better shoes, pants and skirts, Oxford style tops with some nice touches, a bit of bling.  I am more likely to be noticed and therefor clocked, I think, but I also seem to draw more respect.  (Americans and our "We're all equal*" caste system!)

Quote from: Micki on July 30, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
If getting clocked influences a person's personhood, then they're most likely not transsexual.

Just because someone doesn't transition it doesn't mean that they are any less trans than any other trans person. And getting clocked can really suck because it makes you feel invalidated; it's like why can't they see me for who I truly am, and why are they being so cruel? And the whole point of transitioning for some of us is so the person we are on the inside can be revealed to everyone, and have everyone treat us as our truest self, so if someone is constantly clocked and misgendered they may begin to feel that their transition was pointless since people are unwilling to acknowledge them as they see themself and the only difference between pre transition and transition was that pre transition they didn't have to get the proverbial slap in the face every time they walked out the door, and perhaps backing off from being full time would help relieve a lot of stress and allow them to relax until they are better prepared to fully transition.

First time poster here.

Clocking makes no difference to me. Transition is a personal thing. As others have said, 100% passing would be wonderful, but not required at all.

Quote from: Micki on July 30, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
If getting clocked influences a person's personhood, then they're most likely not transsexual.

Thank you for totally invalidating myself and many others here. I always knew deep down inside I was an idiot and not a woman

*

Looking in retrospect, part of my problem as a teen was likely getting clocked as female though I was living as male while wanting so much to transition to female - but not a reality for my time (1970s) and my home life (forbidden to transition).

'Male fail' later came along during my transition's waning days as part-time male (mostly still at my work location).  Strangers at the large office building where I worked frequently mis-gendered me as female while in the end-stage of my male days; telephone callers called me 'Miss' if they did not know me.  Male fail was when I knew it was time to end my charade and go female full-time forever at the earliest practical time; hang on til then.

This inevitable male fail made me realise that if others could not see me as male when I presumed that I was presenting my best male, then my perceptions of my self as male were hyperbole.

Have not looked back since then.
*

 :police:

Hi folks. A reminder to abide by the forum rules - and that means no defining for other people what "qualifies" or "does not qualify" as trans.

Looks like 3/4 of us have developed hard shells

Yeah the percentage i am sir'd (if that is any indicator) is steadily decreasing, but i would transition even if i was clocked 100%.

I, for whatever reason, don't think about it much. I think perhaps i have placed myself in a cocoon of work, family, close friends and a quiet life and don't venture out of it that much perhaps.

Passing matters.  If you do it's great.  If you don't, you have to deal with stuff that depresses you.
 
For those that have a lot of trouble passing, you have my deepest sympathy and respect.  People can be stupid more often than we would like and when you don't pass, that comes out at us. 

For my part, I am doing well enough.  Once in a while I'm clocked but who cares.  As long as there isn't confrontation or violence I'm okay. 

In the meantime, the fear of being clocked does help me eat smaller portions so there is that.

Well I have been on Hrt for 5 years and I am 21 but genetics are a thing and i gave up trying to pass back in my first year when I was 18. As I am young not passing after hrt is annoying but hey I sure wont stop taking my pills because I wouldnt want those suicidal days to return.

Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on August 02, 2016, 05:09:58 PM
Well I have been on Hrt for 5 years and I am 21 but genetics are a thing and i gave up trying to pass back in my first year when I was 18. As I am young not passing after hrt is annoying but hey I sure wont stop taking my pills because I wouldnt want those suicidal days to return.

Amen

I wasn't well before HRT. I am well now. Nothing will make me reconsider. If ever I pass, it would be nice.

Quote from: Soli on August 02, 2016, 10:58:58 PM
I wasn't well before HRT. I am well now. Nothing will make me reconsider. If ever I pass, it would be nice.

I'm not to such a stage as I would try to pass, but with my current size, the HRT would have to remove a very large amount of muscle mass.  Maybe it can over time, I dunno, but I still lift very heavy things all the time, so I'm not counting on it.

I am counting on something else though.    Just as you put it, before HRT there was no way I could be considered mentally healthy (though I was educated enough to fake it); now that I know what healthy is, I don't care if everyone on the planet laughs at me continuously, I can't go back.  Can not go there again.

This is a difficult question for me. I really don't know because I haven't been there. I do know that I suffer from a lot of social anxiety due to PTSD, so there's a chance that something could make me reconsider. The problem is that if I didn't transition, I'm absolutely convinced that I would kill myself because I have been there before.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I am TERRIFIED of being clocked.  I was bullied a lot as a kid, and being laughed at, made fun of, are things that I am very sensitive about.  I am 45 and so my features are somewhat masculinized, and I have no one to support me in public when I go out en femme.  So far nothing has happened, but I've only ever gone out for short periods, to quiet coffeeshops and the like.  I am transitioning in stealth, and I deal with the thought that it will eventually be obvious by...not thinking about that fact.  I can't stop, but I don't know how I'll ever come out.

Well the way I see it is that my being transsexual is a health condition that causes my appearance to be off. That's why there are medications and surgeries to fix it. The problems with not passing are pretty severe, such as persecution, violence, and depression/suicide. I'm going to do what it takes to pass.

interesting. a 3/4 ratio, need seems to override concerns although fear of being harmed can be a very real concern. I live in a country that is progressing and a neighborhood that's very accepting

Can I have two answers?

For me, pre transition and during the earlier days of transition, I never had any real intention of being part or full time girl, it was about being comfortable with myself only, in secret ofc. Back then, the slightest thought or feeling of being clocked would've given me so much shame and embarrassment. It's the main reason I waited so long to come out and start presenting.

As I progressed along my transition, it changed. Going out as myself and learning for myself that the world didn't end, having nothing bad happen, gave me the confidence to keep on going forward. I still assumed everyone could tell but as long as they were polite and stuff, I became ok with that.

Now that I have my F and am full time, it really doesn't matter at all to me. I'm still sirred (usually at work tho only) and I just shrug it off. I definitely don't like it but it is what it is. All I know now is that I would never want to go back nor could I.

I have discovered over the last few months that I probably want to pass more than I let on. I would love to pass but after 50+ years of T poisoning I have to be realistic. My Daughters and Wife claim it is not going to be an issue but I suspect everyone is being incredibly nice...part of the frustration about trying to pass is finding someone who will give you an honest appraisal of how well you actually do/do not pass. Sometimes its the small things that help. I am happy at this stage to let HRT do its thing and am having my second round of hair implants in about 12 weeks

Whether or not I pass I can't go back, I won't go back. As a kid I was bullied for my looks so I learned to be able to focus and block out much of what is going on around me. I don't seem to have lost the knack. I will make several changes as money dictates but I only have a very limited amount, without eating into the money I have set aside to fund my Thailand SRS aspirations. I don't have enough for FFS or breast Augmentation might have been able to have a bit of a nose job or hair implants instead...I chose the hair implants...I probably would have FFS if I could fund it but considering I don't work and in order to fund it I would have to Financially wipe us out, just about entirely....tempting as that may become!!!

Maybe I need to revisit this in another 9 months after HRT has shown me signs of what is will do...might have a better idea of what I need

Liz

Quote from: Micki on July 30, 2016, 10:39:35 AM
I understand that and I didn't mean it to insult anyone. I know as much as anyone how difficult things are when it comes to socialising. I was born with one testicle, so I had no choice but to be this way. I tried being as boyish as possible when I was a kid, even though at home and publically I'd tend to default to wearing girlish clothing and makeup, and I was ridiculed and told by upperclassmen that they thought I was a girl dressed like a boy.

I am sorry, being born with one testicle is not related to girlish behavior or low testosterone in someone born male. Most males born with one testicle have normal testosterone levels and don't have a second thought about being heterosexual. It's also not warrant a diagnosis of an intersex condition. So it's completely unrelated. Appropriating conditions to justify transness may be give someone a sense of relief, but it's a lie.

Answering the topic question, I transitioned to become better adjusted socially, romantically, financially and bodily because these areas of my life were seriously lacking before I began transitioning. I was small, with feminine mannerisms, a high voice that never dropped and I am attracted and always were to men. So I did it was logic to me, and since I began HRT I have never been clocked. I was way more clocked dressed as boy. So If I I hadn't been born this way, I wouldn't have been trans but something else. It's not useful question at all for me. I was more clockable before transition than I am now (that is, people thought I was a girl dressed in boy clothes or a very young ferminine boy). Most of these days, I go on with my life not thinking about transness or attaching myself with the trans community, what makes me think about it is being pre-op as I am waiting for the reccommendation letter for SRS to undergo the surgery as soon as I can, and then date more normally. But I hope one day this is all over and I can move on with my life and make something more meaningful of it.

Ahem...

Like Micki, I had testicular oddities.  Undescended, and effeminate appearance into my teens due to no puberty.  I was given testosterone injections starting at age 15 "so you'll grow up right."  All of this may have been due to DES exposure in utero, as I have a number of other common characteristics with DES sons, as well as knowing my mother did take DES.

Oh, and I'm a transgender person.

I'm not 'appropriating conditions to justify transness', just providing interesting background like others have. 

I am what I am, a transgender person in transition from male to female.  How I got here doesn't make me "less transgender than thou", or similar such things I've heard spouted from time to time.  I'm me, and I have to learn how to be my true self going forward.  I'm here on this site to help myself do that, and share with others.

That's nice that you believe you've never been clocked since starting HRT, but it is an experience that MOST of us have had as some point or another, and it can be a huge reality check and a real "slap in the feels".  It can be enough to make us doubt ourselves.  Being clocked also doesn't make us "less transgender than thou", it just means we have to work even harder as a matter of survival.  Yeah, not passing is a survival risk in today's world, where "Trans-panic" is an allowed defense for crimes against us in 49 of the 50 US states, and we are targeted for political gain.

It sounds like you have been very fortunate in your transition.  Please understand that not all of us are so fortunate.

Quote from: Michelle_P on August 13, 2016, 02:01:04 PM

It sounds like you have been very fortunate in your transition.  Please understand that not all of us are so fortunate.

"Fortunate", a word so easily thrown at those who pass and are naturally feminine... Do you know my story to tell if I am fortunate or not? As I said, I had no choice but to be who I am and that was always judged as feminine by other people. It cost me years of childhood ridicule, harassment as a young teenager, being called a sissy because of the way I behaved. You should think twice before calling me that, because you don't know half of the story. My point is it came naturally to me because of who I am and always were...It seems "feminine" is the ideal for some people. I may be a feminine, well integrated girl now but how I started in life was no fun.

My point remains... Intersex Conditions should not be used to justify one's motivation to transition. Intersex people already have enough problems of their own, let alone another population rip away their identities. It's not nice.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 29, 2016, 12:19:38 AM
Just curious, I'm 33 months in and I still hear comments , but I also receive compliments and smiles. I'm too far past the point of no return.

I can't say I would be worried about me. What I fear is someone will comment while I am with my wife or children. I have already put them through a lot. I do not expect miracles from HRT I am expecting a more balanced life. A more understanding life. I hope it will bring me out of my introvertedness. As it is right now, I know I can never be accepted because of my age. and I definitely am not petite. All my life, until five months ago I thought my thoughts and desires were dirty, sinful, perverted. Thanks to this wonderful site I am becoming much more aware, and I gain confidence every day. What i've read on this site is that confidence is what it takes to pull it off. I circumstances were similar when I was 20, I would probably be talking about what converting to a woman has done for my life. Full SRS would be on my list of things to do. In fact for the first time ever I thought about being taken by a man. I promise you that thought has never crossed my mind before.

I hate being clocked.  It doesn't happen a lot these days, but just enough to remind me that I'm tranz.   As i've aged its gotten To be less of a factor.  I don't think i would have changed any part of transition.

In the last year it's happened to me 3 times I was aware of and the people doing it made me very aware by being rude. I'm lucky it happens so infrequently for me, not that it changes things, I would never want to be any other way. The pity party people do my nut in as well, I don't want pity, lets just get on with life shall we?? :D

Yeah, getting 'clocked' is no fun.  Getting 'The Look' can hurt, and worse, having some lout shout it out to the world can feel dangerous.  Leaving a train station heading to my car one evening recently, I heard behind me, "Look, it's a transgender!" Just keep moving, don't break stride, keep smiling, head down, maybe they're pointing at someone else, the car's just ahead...  It's unnerving.

Fortunately most people are nice enough not to make it obvious when they do read us. I'm in a pretty friendly region, and for the most part people don't respond differently than they would to an older (I'm 62) ciswomen.  As I continue to age, I'll probably reach the point where I'm just another old person, with facial features that fit well on the elderly of either gender.

My biggest fear is that social acceptance will swing the wrong way in the current political climate, and we'll be right back in 1960 grade school h*11, where it's OK to beat the heck out of anyone who's different (and that was just the teachers), and treatment for gender issues will be legislated to the old standard when I was 15; electro-convulsive therapy and faradic or chemical aversion treatment.   I'm so not pining for the Good Old Days.

I just want to quietly live my life.

This is really hard. I guess you have to decide which is more painful for you, passing yourself off as a man or suffering through clocking.

The third option is stay in safe spaces when going out as female.

However, even when you pass it doesn't that you won't ever face situations when people don't know that you're trans. At my daughter's wedding for example, I was the other mom. Was I self-conscious because people knew I was trans? YES! Did I let it ruin the happiness of the occasion? Not a chance. :)