Pope: It's 'terrible' kids taught they can choose gender
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/08/02/pope-francis-children-gender/87956794/
AP 4:31 p.m. EDT August 2, 2016
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis has lamented that children are being taught at school that gender can be a choice, adding that his predecessor, Benedict XVI has labeled current times "the epoch of sin against God the Creator."
Francis weighed in with his view on gender and what he said was that of the emeritus pontiff while meeting privately last week with bishops from Poland during his pilgrimage there. The Vatican released a transcript Tuesday of those closed-door remarks.
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Wow just wow.
I have known all my life that I was the wrong gender. I was never taught that I could chose my gender but I wanted to change my gender. The pope may not have a clue how it feels to know your whole life you were the wrong gender. Was being born male a mistake...in my heart yes. And being born male I could do nothing about that. But to me being female does not just mean being born that gender. I wanted to live as a girl would. I wanted the long hair, pretty clothes, makeup and other things that I found to be beautiful and feminine. Why can't I wear a dress to work, why can't I wear stockings, panties and makeup without being told I was sick to do so. Why can't I take hormones to grow my breasts if I want to. All my life I am most comfortable being the female gender not being a guy. The Pope has no clue the pain this causes. I believe the young should know you can chose.
Heather
That should clear up all the misconceptions about where the Catholic Church stands on all of this.
Let's see, how long did it take to get that little thing with Galileo worked out?
As a transgender woman, I didn't "choose" to be female. It's the way I was born - a female mind in a male body. As transgender people, we do not "choose" our gender.
For the Pope to make such a statement just shows how ignorant he is on the issue. Maybe he should do some research before making such statements. He seems to be a good and compassionate man, from all accounts, but that doesn't excuse him from being ignorant.
The Vatican turned to Dr. Paul McHugh as an advisor on sexual matters in framing its position on transsexuals. They have done their research. This is not ignorance. It is selective science.
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on August 02, 2016, 09:24:05 PM
As a transgender woman, I didn't "choose" to be female. It's the way I was born - a female mind in a male body. As transgender people, we do not "choose" our gender.
For the Pope to make such a statement just shows how ignorant he is on the issue. Maybe he should do some research before making such statements. He seems to be a good and compassionate man, from all accounts, but that doesn't excuse him from being ignorant.
I agree with this. I did not choose my gender. My only choice has to do with what I do about the fact that my gender doesn't match the sex I was assigned. As a teenager, I chose to pretend to be a straight woman because it was easier than dealing with the consequences of being a gay transman... but that choice is no longer teneble... so I am choosing to be myself.
My gender hasn't changed nor did I choose it.
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Quote from: Deborah on August 02, 2016, 09:51:18 PM
The Vatican turned to Dr. Paul McHugh as an advisor on sexual matters in framing its position on transsexuals. They have done their research. This is not ignorance. It is selective science.
Ugh. That's even worse. >:(
Nooooooooo, Pope Francis has been doing so well at being accepting and loving of people, especially those whom the Catholic church tends to ostracize. This is disappointing.
I just want to hurry and get to the day when trans* people are better understood. Because I really do believe that it is a terrible thing that children are taught that they can choose their gender. But, not the way he means it. If I'm born in a male body and feel like a woman; then there's just nothing I can do about that. And trying to tell kids that they need to try to act like "boys" or girls" is messed up, and is probably the biggest source of discomfort/suffering that we have. I don't know why so many people have to have opinions about things they clearly don't understand.
It's terrible the way an old man in a white frock who lives in luxury talks out of his fat ass while covering up for his kiddy fiddling pals. Wind your neck in popey
Quote from: Deborah on August 02, 2016, 09:51:18 PM
The Vatican turned to Dr. Paul McHugh as an advisor on sexual matters in framing its position on transsexuals. They have done their research. This is not ignorance. It is selective science.
No, there's no science here at all. The fact that they turned to a well-known homophobe and transphobe (and I-don't-know-what-else-phobe) for advice says it all. They wanted someone with the title "Doctor" to put their prejudices into pseudo-scientific language, and McHugh was evidently more than happy to oblige.
This is simply bigotry (and lies) dressed up in a cheap "scientificy"-looking Hallowe'en costume.
McHugh also advised the Vatican on their child molestation problem. He is the one that convinced them that it wasn't a problem of pedophilia. Rather it was a problem caused by allowing homosexuals to be priests. So now, they are banned.
Quote from: popa910 on August 04, 2016, 09:12:59 PM
Nooooooooo, Pope Francis has been doing so well at being accepting and loving of people, especially those whom the Catholic church tends to ostracize.
This is news to me. I've heard a lot of content-free talk of "love" and "forgiveness", but I haven't seen any change in policies or substance for that matter. He and the Vatican still insist that we're sinners for being who we are and his acceptance is contingent upon us stopping being who we are. It's just that they've learned that threats of Hell don't go over so well these days.
You know with the Catholic Church's horrendous record of hiding and allowing pedophiles to prey on children, you would think the Pope would be a little more humble in his hate speak. It's unbelievable that people look to this organization for moral authority.
Paige :)
It's unfortunate that such a progressive leader has taken this misinformed stance. However i have a lot of hope for the church, it is changing.
I attend mass at a local Catholic church periodically and have never felt anything but welcome there. I think their local leadership is often more progressive then the ones above them.
The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church so I don't know why it surprises anyone that he says what the Catholic Church believes. And he really isn't progressive. He's just polite most of the time.
Having said all that, the Catholic Church is not a Bible only institution and is open to scientific ideas even if they are sometimes slow to acknowledge them. So it's not unthinkable that they might change their stance on trans issues. I do not think the same can be said for gay and lesbian issues though although I could be wrong on that.
And this is why I never forget that the pope is still the pope. He may not be as bad as the last pope, but I still have no reason to trust him. No surprises here, people.
Is this the same guy who said, "Who am I to judge?"
I don't want to offend anyone who has a relationship/connection to the church, but why would anyone listen to a bunch of folks who theoretically never have sex (at least with a partner.) How are they expert in gender/sex/relationship issues?
My last point is, to me, undeniable. If this Pope is so loving, so caring, his approach should be one of bringing up the subject of how awful trans people are treated, how many are murdered, how many are so distressed that they can no longer bare to live. Then talk about how you have ideas to help them. Maybe his type of help is not what is really needed, but it would at least show some compassion.
This Pope is better than the ones in the past to be fair. Unfortunately, he is unenlightened and prejudiced in certain areas.
Moni
It is the same pope who said "Who am I to judge?" However, Dr. McHugh poisoned this Pope as he poisoned me, my shrink and others affected in the 1970's when his flawed findings came out! I am still reeling from the damage done by delaying the treatment by professionals because of this man. Why is this guy keeps vomiting up somewhere where important policy makers are involved?
Joelene
Dear Holiness:
I didn't choose my gender. I chose to live my life, rather than live with suicidal depression. God made me the way I am. Consider it a gift I chose to accept, or a test that I chose to pass. I'm pretty sure suicide is considered failing a test by a merciful, loving God.
Thanks
Michelle
Its sad that Pope Francis is so progressive on so many other issues cannot be progressive on LGBT issues. The church needs to get out of the dark ages but I dont see that happening any time soon.
There's a really wise person who told a tale in which a wealthy fellow has three of his workers take care of parts of his wealth. Two of the workers invest it, grow it, and return the original wealth multiplied to their boss, who rewards them for taking such good care. The third worker is frightened, and buries his investment, so when the boss comes back to him, all he has to show is what he started with and kept hidden. He gets fired.
Now, God doesn't make mistakes. God made me the way I am for a reason. Call it a gift, a challenge, or a test, but it is currently in my hands. Do I improve on it, grow it, and become all I can be, my true self, or do I dig a deep hole and bury this gift where it will never be seen or grow?
I think I'll ignore the Pharisees that insist I bury this gift and never let it see the light. I'll follow the advice of that wise fellow and improve, grow myself to all that I can, becoming my true self. At the end of my days I'll be able to return something nice.
I feel that this is what I am called to do.
This article <https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/what-does-pope-francis-actually-say-about-->-bleeped-<-/ (https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/what-does-pope-francis-actually-say-about--%3E-bleeped-%3C-/)>, written around the time the Pope compared gender theory to the nuclear arms race, presents an argument that he's not really anti-trans. If so, he's at least rather clueless about how he comes across.
I must admit, though, that I kind of like the idea of being as dangerous as nuclear weapons. >:-)
Yup.
(Gender reassignment surgery) "could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will cure the patient's internal turmoil."
- Catholic canon law, 1997, Cardinal Navarrete
To the best of my knowledge, that statement was not in cannon law but rather in a supposedly secret and unpublished memo in 2003. Regardless, the whole thing remains ignored in the Catechism which is the document people read to form their faith.
Because it remains ignored, many catholic priests openly condemn it in writing with one Cardinal several years ago explicitly saying we are going to hell.
So yes, there is a problem that Catholic apologists cannot paper over.
I would like to note, as I've been kinda defending the way the Church handles things, is that my defense does not imply no problem, but rather, I try to approach the problem in the way that these things typically evolve over time.
As you note, there is no blanket prohibition in cannon that says, "if you are transgender, you are going to hell."
There are priests and bishops that do say odd or horrible things; just as I say odd and horrible things sometimes. Sometimes I'm aware and understand my insensitivity, and apologize in a timely fashion; and sometimes I fail to do so. That does not imply that the doctrine of the Church is that odd and horrible thing.
To the quoted comment, I do not think the pope is using the term "gender" in the same sense that we do; and I darn near agree about rejecting the word "choose". If I could choose, I'd just be a guy in a guy body, if only because I'm incredibly lazy, and that would be easiest. But I'm not. There is no choose, there is only discover, then act, or do not act.
It's also worth mentioning about that quoted document that there is more to the story. It does allow for treatment, HRT and GRS, to relieve mental anguish in some cases. It further goes on to say that this in no way alters your birth sex, that no gender change occurs nor is any allowed to be acknowledged by the Church. And it further bans one from marriage or the taking of any holy orders.
So, it in effect simply allows for an extreme medical solution to what they still define as mental illness.
For me, that's not good enough.
I am sorry if this offends anyone. But considering the current status of pedifiles in the Catholic Church is the Pope suggesting It is a better choice to decide to be a Priest instead. Sorry I can't be that much of a hypocrite. Be true to yourself. I don't believe the Bible ever sanctioned pedifiles.
The Pope isn't suggesting that. While there has been obvious problems with that there is nothing to suggest he has ever condoned it.
What the Church is saying is that Holy orders have a gender requirement and that it is impossible to change one's birth gender as defined by their physical sex.
No offense taken, but I'd like to urge caution. pedophiles became priests in order to find ways to get close to their prey. Now that the light is focused on that job, they will find other jobs that place them in close proximity to kids with the opportunity for privacy that allows them to commit their crimes.
Its real easy to latch onto the idea that because some priests were found to be pedophiles, that the job caused them to be such. And nothing could be further from the truth. Their deviant, non-consensual focus was established, usually before adolescence, long before the thought of "which job will let me hunt best" crosses their minds.
They will find the next vulnerable profession. There is nothing special about "priest" in that regard.
Hi friends :police:
Unfortunately pedophiles come from all walks of life from the wealthy high profile types to the poorest of the poor
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