Today I took a big step forward toward FFS.
Me: 57 years old, SRS in 1991, married in 1994. Two adult children from first marriage.
I've been quietly investigating FFS for a while now. Looking at before and after photos, procedures, surgeon's costs and thinking about it. I've made a couple of initial inquiries.
Perhaps I should mention that back in the day, when I transitioned, I knew nothing of FFS. I did have rhinoplasty at the time which I think helped me a lot.
Here's the thing, I have been passing for decades now. I know because friends that I've had for years occasionally ask me questions like "where does your kids' father live?" which is incredibly awkward but O/T... Anyway, I also don't get the looks or anything. Still - when I look at pictures of myself, especially without hair and make-up, to me it's very apparent. Plus, those more masculine features make me seem older and less attractive to my eye.
Well, I've been thinking a lot about it and telling my husband that I want to do it. He's okay with me doing it, but I think he's been having having a little trouble understanding why I want to put myself through that kind of pain and recovery.
Finally getting to my point now. I called my 29 year old daughter whom I've always been very close to. I explained it to her and wasn't really sure of what her reaction would be. She said "I think you should go for it!!" She completely understood. She said "Hey, I get it, I mean, I wear make-up everyday. If I felt there was something that I needed or wanted to do to make myself look better and feel more confident, I would totally do it!" She had more to say but all in the same vain. Wow! This reaction from her made my year! My relationship with her means everything and it's not as though I need her permission, but if she had not understood or had wondered why I was wasting money on vanity, it would have been very hard for me. It would have made it a lot harder to go forward.
After explaining it to my daughter, I made another attempt to explain to my husband about how as it is now, I feel like - sure I pass. I've learned to communicate my gender through clothes, hair, make-up, mannerisms, confidence, etc. in spite of what nature did to my bone structure. However, it would be so nice when I don't have make-up on, when my bicycle helmet is on and my hair is pulled back or when I just haven't had the time to make an effort - in those times if my face would look feminine just as it is. He understands now. I think I just hadn't explained it very well before.
I didn't realize that telling my daughter was tantamount to making a decision, but almost immediately after speaking with her I realized, I've decided. I'm doing this. I've looked at a lot of before and after photos and I am trying to keep my expectations realistic. I don't expect to look like the knock-out some of you young girls do. "Somewhat attractive middle-aged woman" will do fine.
So for me this is about confidence and feeling more attractive.
I'll post here when I've decided on a surgeon. ATM, I'm thinking about Rossi, Cardenas and PAI and would welcome PMs from girls that have experience with them.
Sound like you have a good life, that is great to hear.
similar timeline as mine
I had two "feminizing" rhinoplasties in early '80s, breast aug in '84, SRS in '85. That was it, couldn't do anything else. Though there were hints about a surgeon who reconstructed forehead in the trans newsletter I received monthly in the mail. However the surgeon was not named. When I asked the surgeon who did all the cosmetic work, rhino's and BA, he said there was nothing that could be done to the forehead. So I lived with my forehead, wearing hairstyles that hid it somewhat. Also, as an athletic dyke lesbian, I started wearing a visor even when I was not playing softball. :)
Prior to FFS, every day I took a shower I would feel my protruding forehead, but did not think there was anything I could do about it. Then in 2005 I heard about FFS, joined a very vibrant Yahoo FFS group, read every single post. From that point on I started saving money.
My partner of 17 years thought I looked fine, we are just a couple of aging old ladies. However she understood if I wanted to pursue it she was okay with it.
Finally last May I took the first steps of contacting FFS surgeons, received a quote from two. Next thing you know in June I'm sending a deposit for surgery with Dr Rossi, scheduling it for Sept 2015. Everything pretty much was a whirlwind until I returned from BA last Oct.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Deeiche. We do have a similar timeline and experiences. I'm also into sports and have often worn hats or visors.
I can completely relate to what you're saying about covering up your forehead. I hate windy days because the wind blows my bangs off my forehead and I feel self-conscious. Also, when swimming, I don't want to get my hair wet, etc. :-\
Here are a few images of me now. The first one is more or less my everyday look. In the last photo I've pulled all my hair back so you can see everything - I really don't like this photo as you can see my bone structure as it is and my high hairline.
(removed - see images below in post below)
That conversation with your daughter really moved me.
Hi Rhonda!!!
Congrats on the decision to move ahead! Your daughter sounds like such a sweetie!!!... I am gaining a daughter through my marriage next month and hope to be a grandma... Okay... A hot grandma, one of these days :)
I have no experience with any of those surgeons but had 23 hours worth of surgery on my face in 2015 with Dr Deschamps-Braly and happy to answer any questions I can about the procedures themselves, healing etc
Take Care,
Ashley :)
Quote from: Celia0428 on August 18, 2016, 03:43:17 PM
That conversation with your daughter really moved me.
Thank you Celia.
I was afraid that I didn't explain it all that well. My daughter is married and an attorney. When I talk to her about things and ask her opinion, I expect honesty from someone that I both love and respect. If she thought that it was strange that I would do this, she would say so.
I'm still feeling really good about it. Since then I wrote to my older sister. I'm not sure how she'll react. I haven't told my son. I'm not looking forward to that so much. I expect him to be supportive whether he fully understands it or not. I think for women, it's easier to understand because women are used to making an effort on their appearance by coloring their hair, wearing make-up, bodywear, or even cosmetic surgery. Most women aren't hung up on appearing au naturale. Otherwise, imagine all the hairy legs and bushy eyebrows. :laugh:
Quote from: tgirlamc on August 18, 2016, 10:13:36 PM
Hi Rhonda!!!
Congrats on the decision to move ahead! Your daughter sounds like such a sweetie!!!... I am gaining a daughter through my marriage next month and hope to be a grandma... Okay... A hot grandma, one of these days :)
I have no experience with any of those surgeons but had 23 hours worth of surgery on my face in 2015 with Dr Deschamps-Braly and happy to answer any questions I can about the procedures themselves, healing etc
Take Care,
Ashley :)
Thank you, Ashley! She is everything I could ever hope for in a daughter. My son is great too. In that, I have been lucky. They both accept me for who I am.
Many times I think, I wish that I could have transitioned as a teenager and avoided all the pain and damage of testosterone, but then I wouldn't have been blessed with my two kids. So, overall I don't regret that.
Congratulations to you, Ashley, on gaining a daughter! Daughters are such a gift.
My daughter is very recently married, so now if you beat me in the race to be "hot grandma" I will be very jealous! ;) I'm so bad that I have grandma books on my Amazon reading list. ... oops O/T ...
25 hours!! :o You are a strong and brave woman, but obviously it paid off. I did see your before and after photos and you look at least 15 years younger than what your bio says.
Hi Rhonda, my story is not too dissimilar to yours.
I transitioned in 2000, had SRS in 2003, and a partially successful hair transplant in 2006. I pass in everyday life, have unsuspecting female friends, and am engaged to a lovely guy for the past 6 years. I live 'in stealth'.
I didn't know that FFS existed, and it's not until going on this site that I really realised it's prevalence and popularity these days among the trans community.
I have many of the fears and concerns that you have with my forehead and hairline. I hate windy days, I often wear caps to hide my forehead. I obsess over using my hair to try to hide it all, but then I get resentful of the fact that I can't be more free and relaxed with my hair. Like tieing it back, wearing it up, or any of that. So I avoid certain situations, like getting it wet out in public, or open top cars, or anything like that.
I have concerns about getting FFS though.
I agonised over discussing it with my partner, and when I finally did, we fell out badly over it, because he couldn't see what I see, and hence is adamant I don't need it. Plus he's terrified of the risks I'd be taking if it went wrong. Plus, as I live in stealth, I don't want big changes because that would raise questions from people who only know me as a woman. I don't want to 'out' myself through having FFS.
I also know my parents would not be happy at all if they knew what I was considering.
It's a very difficult decision really, but I am so tired of accepting the appearance compromise and daily worry over my hair not hiding my forehead bone issues.
I have booked an appointment to go and see Facial Team in Spain, in January, and my partner has reluctantly agreed to accompany me. But with all the hints he's been dropping about money, I'm not sure if he's just coming along to stop me agreeing to expensive surgery. Even though I will have saved up the necessary money beforehand.
I wish I had a daughter who was supportive, but I just know, like everything else I've done, I'm going to have to force the issue against the opinions of those around me.
I wish you well with your FFS adventure.
Here are a few images of me now with no makeup at all!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_straight-on.jpg&hash=5839efb19fe1521e3acadc46efc5d91b50ec97c3) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/straight-on.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_left-side.jpg&hash=18b5fe480300f148b4abaefa0cbe97620f2a24d1) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/left-side.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_worm-view.jpg&hash=9deefb748c723e1fb1221ea573aad643f13b3ae2) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/worm-view.jpg.html)
Here is pretty much my every look.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_everyday.jpg&hash=ea52126240e9511266f3c5909deefe78235fa77a) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/everyday.jpg.html)
I'm curious if you all think that after 26 years of HRT whether you are all seeing M or F or androgynous especially with the no-makeup pics. I honestly can't tell. You can be honest - just don't call me an old hag or something. :'( Maybe people see my face and neither gender jumps out so clearly that they rely on other gender clues like hair, clothes, breasts, jewelry and so they sub-consciously decide female.
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 02:45:32 AM
Hi Rhonda, my story is not too dissimilar to yours.
I transitioned in 2000, had SRS in 2003, and a partially successful hair transplant in 2006. I pass in everyday life, have unsuspecting female friends, and am engaged to a lovely guy for the past 6 years. I live 'in stealth'.
I didn't know that FFS existed, and it's not until going on this site that I really realised it's prevalence and popularity these days among the trans community.
I have many of the fears and concerns that you have with my forehead and hairline. I hate windy days, I often wear caps to hide my forehead. I obsess over using my hair to try to hide it all, but then I get resentful of the fact that I can't be more free and relaxed with my hair. Like tieing it back, wearing it up, or any of that. So I avoid certain situations, like getting it wet out in public, or open top cars, or anything like that.
Except for the dates being a bit different, I feel like I could have written these words myself! I once heard that keeping a secret exacts a psychological toll. I think that having to stress over hiding part of our face all the time is very stressful.
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 02:45:32 AM
I have concerns about getting FFS though.
I agonised over discussing it with my partner, and when I finally did, we fell out badly over it, because he couldn't see what I see, and hence is adamant I don't need it. Plus he's terrified of the risks I'd be taking if it went wrong. Plus, as I live in stealth, I don't want big changes because that would raise questions from people who only know me as a woman. I don't want to 'out' myself through having FFS.
That is a very valid concern. With very casual friends / acquaintances who don't see me that often anyway, I will probably say "I had some work done." With closer friends, I'm thinking that it may be an opportunity to open up and tell them the truth. I definitely understand how you may not want to do that. You're one of the girls. Why out yourself as a trans-woman? It's a hard choice. I've decided that with a couple of friends that we will never be closer if I'm never willing to share my past with them.
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 02:45:32 AM
I also know my parents would not be happy at all if they knew what I was considering.
It's a very difficult decision really, but I am so tired of accepting the appearance compromise and daily worry over my hair not hiding my forehead bone issues.
I have booked an appointment to go and see Facial Team in Spain, in January, and my partner has reluctantly agreed to accompany me. But with all the hints he's been dropping about money, I'm not sure if he's just coming along to stop me agreeing to expensive surgery. Even though I will have saved up the necessary money beforehand.
I wish I had a daughter who was supportive, but I just know, like everything else I've done, I'm going to have to force the issue against the opinions of those around me.
I wish you well with your FFS adventure.
That's really hard. It sounds very much like transition all over again. Like swimming against the current. I'm sure that you'll make the right decision. All I can say is that it's your life, your body, your money and your identity. It is good to have the support and understanding of those around you, but in the end it comes down to a very personal choice, because you have to look at yourself each day and believe that it reflects who you are.
I'm not expert at this, but I don't know if doing this in stages would make the change more gradual to observers and less of a shock to people? It seems like it would be more expensive in the end. Just a thought.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 19, 2016, 10:43:56 AM
Here are a few images of me now with no makeup at all!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_straight-on.jpg&hash=5839efb19fe1521e3acadc46efc5d91b50ec97c3) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/straight-on.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_left-side.jpg&hash=18b5fe480300f148b4abaefa0cbe97620f2a24d1) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/left-side.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_worm-view.jpg&hash=9deefb748c723e1fb1221ea573aad643f13b3ae2) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/worm-view.jpg.html)
Here is pretty much my every look.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_everyday.jpg&hash=ea52126240e9511266f3c5909deefe78235fa77a) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/everyday.jpg.html)
I'm curious if you all think that after 26 years of HRT whether you are all seeing M or F or androgynous especially with the no-makeup pics. I honestly can't tell. You can be honest - just don't call me an old hag or something. :'( Maybe people see my face and neither gender jumps out so clearly that they rely on other gender clues like hair, clothes, breasts, jewelry and so they sub-consciously decide female.
Hi Rhonda, so nice to chat with you :)
OK my brutally honest opinion... I can only see a woman. And today while visiting a supplier at work, there was another trans person there, and I spotted her immediately. I think most trans folk are especially 'tuned in' to looking for very specific and very subtle signs. Scrutinising your photos, there's the tiniest hint of an Adam's Apple, but seriously, your forehead and hairline look fine to me. No real hint of a past life with testosterone.
Looking at myself in the mirror, my hairline has receded
much more at the sides than yours, and I have central 'brow-bossing' that I cannot see at all on your forehead. My Adam's Apple is much more prominent as well.
There, that's my honest opinion.
However, I'm not going to be as trite as to suggest you don't need FFS. It's your own personal decision, and if you feel you need it, then that is your decision.
I would ask though, are you trying to get opinions from folk on here to assist you with your FFS decision?
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 19, 2016, 11:24:17 AM
Except for the dates being a bit different, I feel like I could have written these words myself! I once heard that keeping a secret exacts a psychological toll. I think that having to stress over hiding part of our face all the time is very stressful.
That is a very valid concern. With very casual friends / acquaintances who don't see me that often anyway, I will probably say "I had some work done." With closer friends, I'm thinking that it may be an opportunity to open up and tell them the truth. I definitely understand how you may not want to do that. You're one of the girls. Why out yourself as a trans-woman? It's a hard choice. I've decided that with a couple of friends that we will never be closer if I'm never willing to share my past with them.
That's really hard. It sounds very much like transition all over again. Like swimming against the current. I'm sure that you'll make the right decision. All I can say is that it's your life, your body, your money and your identity. It is good to have the support and understanding of those around you, but in the end it comes down to a very personal choice, because you have to look at yourself each day and believe that it reflects who you are.
I'm not expert at this, but I don't know if doing this in stages would make the change more gradual to observers and less of a shock to people? It seems like it would be more expensive in the end. Just a thought.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Now you say it, yes I do agree that keeping secrets does exact a toll from oneself. Especially ones so personal, and yet we feel are visible to others, even if they don't see them. It does take it's toll, for sure.
Really, it's only my boyfriend's family who I wouldn't want to find out about me. Especially as we plan on getting married in the next few years. They are very trans-phobic, and religious, it would be a disaster if they found out. Anyone else, well I couldn't care less really.
In the grand scheme of FFS operations, I'm not exactly considering a lot. I'm looking at:
- Tracheal shave (I can't see that as having any risk of outing me TBH).
- Central forehead brow-bossing removed, and eyebrows raised ever so slightly (It's this I'm most worried about).
- Upper eyelid fat removal (I think it's called an upper blepharoplasty) and plenty of cis-women have it done, so I can just say I've had a facelift.
- Strip of scalp at the crown removed as part of the brow-bone shaving procedure, and harvested for hair follicles which would then be transplanted into my temples. Not sure if I could simply hide this under my normal hair or say it's part of my facelift?
That's it.
I'm hoping that the above won't be too obvious, and I plan to have 4 weeks off once I get back home to recover, and hope it all settles down before I venture outside again. I'm also hoping that I can just say to my girlfriends that I've had a facelift, and whilst I expect they won't understand my vanity, hopefully they won't come to the conclusion I'm trans.
Yep, most of my life has felt like I'm swimming against the current. I guess that's just my lot in life. But it does take a lot of willpower and determination, or "selfishness" as my mother occasionally cruelly calls it.
As you say, it's a very personal choice, and I will have to live with the consequences if anything goes wrong. But then again, I live with the imperfections that I see every day, and that takes it's toll as we know as well.
I'm actually worried about two things going wrong:
- Any swelling that causes asymmetry and gives my face a very odd look that I won't be able to explain away or live with.
- Bone regrowth of the shaved area on my forehead, which at least one board member here has had, meaning she's had to go for a second complete FFS procedure to try to resolve it. I really don't want that to happen.
With looking at what I want, yes, I could have the tracheal shave done at a different time, and also the upper blepharoplasty. But the brow shaving will need to be combined with the hair transplants, otherwise I'd lose the hair follicles that are on the strip of scalp which is removed. And of course the cost goes up considerably. I'm pretty sure the FFS surgeons would suggest having it all done at the same time as well.
I'm trying to keep an open mind, and explore all options when I go to see them in January.
I hope you let us know on here what your eventual decision is as well. It will certainly help me to make mine.
Take care,
V.
I'm going to snip a lot of the message so that folks don't have to re-read the same text. I hope that this works
and people can just scroll up if they want to see the whole original text again.
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
Hi Rhonda, so nice to chat with you :)
OK my brutally honest opinion... I can only see a woman. And today while visiting a supplier at work, there was another trans person there, and I spotted her immediately. I think most trans folk are especially 'tuned in' to looking for very specific and very subtle signs. Scrutinising your photos, there's the tiniest hint of an Adam's Apple, but seriously, your forehead and hairline look fine to me.
[...]
I would ask though, are you trying to get opinions from folk on here to assist you with your FFS decision?
Thank you for your honest opinion. It is really helpful. Your observations on specifics are also helpful. I'm expecting surgeons to recommend different procedures and I'll rely on that heavily, but it's good to have other opinions on what does and does not stand out.
Since studying the feminine scale M5 - GN - F5 scale and http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/My_Facial_Feminisation_Thesis_Part_8_How_Feminine_is_Feminine_Enough.html that Ruby posted in her thread, I think that I'm somewhere in the gender neutral plus or minus a point. Before I studied it I was thinking "I look like a boy without my make-up."
However, oddly enough, even if I'm already GN, my resolve to go for some changes is actually getting stronger. What it's doing is making me feel more optimistic that I might expect a better end result. If before I was thinking that I was going to go from having a masculine bone structure to getting to neutral (which, of course I would have done), now I'm hoping to go from neutral to decidedly feminine ~F2 or so. That is exciting for me to think about because that would feel so much more like a match to how think of myself. I'm not an androgynous person, I'm a girl and I want my face to unambiguously reflect that.
Perhaps it's like, I'm running a marathon and I thought I was 10 miles from the goal, but it's only 5 miles away! Now I want to run faster, not to slow down!
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
[...]
In the grand scheme of FFS operations, I'm not exactly considering a lot. I'm looking at:
[...]
I'm also hoping that I can just say to my girlfriends that I've had a facelift, and whilst I expect they won't understand my vanity, hopefully they won't come to the conclusion I'm trans.
You know, I think people see what they expect to see. If you tell them that you got a facelift, they'll probably think, "Wow, she looks good! That is is the best facelift I have ever seen in my entire life!" I mean, I didn't know about FFS until a few years ago, but we're not the general public. People can't guess at an explanation if they have little knowledge or experience of it.
You might be asked who your surgeon is because they will be ready for a facelift of their own!
OTOH, I do sympathize and understand that the last thing that you want is one more deception that always leads to another. So, there is a trade-off there and I don't want to dismiss that.
Quote from: V on August 19, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
Yep, most of my life has felt like I'm swimming against the current. I guess that's just my lot in life. But it does take a lot of willpower and determination, or "selfishness" as my mother occasionally cruelly calls it.
[...]
No love is possible without self-love. Whatever you decide, I hope that you will choose what makes you the most happy.
Good luck on your consultation. If you decide to share your experience I hope that you'll let me know so that I can follow it. However, if you decide to keep it private, I completely understand.
Hugs,
Rhonda
HI Rhonda!!!
After my involvement with changing my own face, I find myself acutely aware of facial structure as I pass through public each day... in your photos, I see predominantly female features with a few that are more androgynous thrown in! Nothing that barks male. Androgynous features are easily flipped to being perceived as female when the other aspects of female presentation are thrown in!!!
I think you should proceed with whatever makes you happy without regard for what you fear others may infer from you having "work" done... Women our age have things done all the time and if they have not read you yet... They ain't gonna sister!!!
Proceed with what pleases YOU!!!
Hugs!!!
Ashley :)
Have received quotes back from PAI (Bangkok) and Dr. Rossi (Buenos Aires).
Quote from PAI came back very rapidly, but it did not have a lot of detail.
With Dr. Rossi's office, a few emails have gone back and forth with Amanda - who is a gem. The communication is really quite incredible. I very much like how they asked me what I'm trying to accomplish, etc. When I received the quote and description back from Dr. Rossi's office, my input was very much incorporated into their proposal. For example, I mentioned that I wanted to "... avoid the look of Beverly Hills women that have had too much plastic surgery..." yes, I say things like that.. ::)
They used my phrase back at me and said that Dr. Rossi strives for a natural look. So I am getting a very good feeling that I was really listened to. That I am being treated as a person, not just a body. This is feeling like a really good fit for me.
I also liked the detail in the proposal. Every procedure was described along with an explanation as to why each procedure was recommended. As expected, there were a set of main recommendations and a few options. I have not heard back from Dr. Cardenas yet, but at this point, to be honest, I think I have decided. I am feeling really good about Dr. Rossi.
I don't want to unfairly say anything negative about PAI because they are surely top surgeons, I will only say why I didn't choose them. For one, the cost was very close to the same. Both PAI and Dr. Rossi are what I consider affordable. All told I will be just over $20k after travel and even including some $$ for hair transplants.
The big difference for me was communication. Being in opposite time zones makes Thailand difficult. Neither me nor they made a big effort to bridge the communication gap. Perhaps if I had been able to converse with the PAI surgeons it would have been equal.
Dr. Rossi proposes to do the following
• Forehead reconstruction (type III)
• Hairline correction
• Brow lift
• Secondary rhinoplasty (see below)
• Upper lip lift (to make it vertically shorter and get more exposition of the upper teeth) (*)
• Chin reduction in height and width
• Jaw feminization (tapering from chin to rear corners)
Optional, which I'm doing is fat injection to the lips and
blepharoplasty if needed when he looks at me
They explained in great detail that they need to move my glabella (the forehead area between the eyebrows) about 8-10 mm back! Which is a lot. I'm still in a bit of shock about that. I keep saying to myself that they are going to take my head apart and put it back together.
They said that my nose looks very feminine, but after they move my forehead back, they will have to adjust the nose or else the nose will appear too long.
The most complex option is the facelift/necklift which they did recommend. They explained in very great detail that I should do it, but that I could do it at the time of FFS or a few months later. Since they are removing a lot of bone, it is likely that I am going to end up with some loose skin, so a facelift would be good. It would be cheaper to do it at the same time as the FFS. However, if I wait a few months and do it on a second trip after I've healed, I should expect a better result.
More effort but a better result is what I've decided on. Also, I'm thinking that if there is anything else that needs to be done, I could take care of it in 6-12 months. It just seems unwise to pull my older skin over swollen features before they've healed. I could end up with additional lines and wrinkles.
Took this selfie this morning before we went out for breakfast.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_breakfast.jpg&hash=f59c0dd87582ccbe90e3c5afde5ec13869b2f910) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/breakfast.jpg.html)
-Rhonda
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 19, 2016, 10:43:56 AM
Here are a few images of me now with no makeup at all!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_straight-on.jpg&hash=5839efb19fe1521e3acadc46efc5d91b50ec97c3) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/straight-on.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_left-side.jpg&hash=18b5fe480300f148b4abaefa0cbe97620f2a24d1) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/left-side.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_worm-view.jpg&hash=9deefb748c723e1fb1221ea573aad643f13b3ae2) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/worm-view.jpg.html)
Here is pretty much my every look.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_everyday.jpg&hash=ea52126240e9511266f3c5909deefe78235fa77a) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/everyday.jpg.html)
I'm curious if you all think that after 26 years of HRT whether you are all seeing M or F or androgynous especially with the no-makeup pics. I honestly can't tell. You can be honest - just don't call me an old hag or something. :'( Maybe people see my face and neither gender jumps out so clearly that they rely on other gender clues like hair, clothes, breasts, jewelry and so they sub-consciously decide female.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fcycle-girl%2Fmedia%2Fpre-op%2Fstraight-on.jpg.html&hash=d5682285651fb61796dc8faa5742bfa0554cdd72)
At the three pictures where you have no glasses you looks androgynous and it's possible to pass. You have something which reminds me about Caitlyn Jenner. Your nose and eyes looks a bit feminine, something that would make passing easier.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fcycle-girl%2Fmedia%2Fpre-op%2Feveryday.jpg.html&hash=2c9cc089dcb88f7542d94b6b7715fa7f31802c7a)
At the picture where you wear glasses you looks like a whole different person. Your nose looks different and more masculine. Your eyes are still feminine. You do still have the possibility to pass, but in my opinion your facial features like the nose are more feminine at the pictures above and you do look a bit younger. But you have a stronger jaw line at the picture above, but a bit rounder face at the picture where you wears glasses. Perhaps because you do smile.
So long story short: I thinks it would be easier to pass with that nose you have at the pictures above than the nose you have where you wear glasses.
Hi Sebby,
Thanks for the feedback! I really like getting a variety of observations.
Sebby, yes, now that you mention it, my nose does look a large in that selfie. Probably having the camera so close doesn't help with the fish-eye effect, though. Maybe I'll try again with a selfie stick.
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 21, 2016, 11:15:47 AM
Hi Sebby,
Thanks for the feedback! I really like getting a variety of observations.
Sebby, yes, now that you mention it, my nose does look a large in that selfie. Probably having the camera so close doesn't help with the fish-eye effect, though. Maybe I'll try again with a selfie stick.
At the three pictures where you have no glasses, you have some feminine facial features and these pictures could be a good post-FFS results. But the picture where you wear glasses could be a pre-FFS picture. Just my observation and thoughts.
Quote from: tgirlamc on August 20, 2016, 08:55:12 PM
HI Rhonda!!!
After my involvement with changing my own face, I find myself acutely aware of facial structure as I pass through public each day... in your photos, I see predominantly female features with a few that are more androgynous thrown in! Nothing that barks male. Androgynous features are easily flipped to being perceived as female when the other aspects of female presentation are thrown in!!!
I think you should proceed with whatever makes you happy without regard for what you fear others may infer from you having "work" done... Women our age have things done all the time and if they have not read you yet... They ain't gonna sister!!!
Proceed with what pleases YOU!!!
Hugs!!!
Ashley :)
Hi Ashley,
Thank you for your thoughts and especially your support and encouragement.
I agree with you Ashley. I'm thinking that when they see me after I've "had some work done" that coming up with "She must have had FFS!" will not be what comes to their minds. It's like noticing that it's cloudy and thinking that there must be a volcano somewhere. It's just not something that happens enough that people think of it. That is, unless the person was suspecting me before (which is possible), in which case, it makes no difference.
As it happens, I've been away from most of my friends for a while due to a bicycling accident that has kept me away from tennis for 4 months now. I sprained my wrist very badly and can't play. So this has created an opportunity of sorts. It's a big part of the reason why I'm wanting to do this now. Most of them haven't been around me for a while, so when I reappear in a few months with a different hair style and look, I'm counting on their memory not being perfect. I'm more worried about being so different as to not being recognized immediately. However, it will probably be just as embarrassing for them as it is for me, so when they hear my voice it will be fine.
Hmm... I remember one of the girls at my tennis club going from long hair to a pixie cut. The running joke was, "Who is this new woman at the club." Truly, we all kept doing a double-take. Is that really C___? So, I'll have to figure it out as I go along. Whenever she spoke though, it was "oh yeah!"
I just got off the phone with my sister. We spoke for a long while. Her initial reaction when I wrote to her that I was going to have FFS was "You look fine, are you sure that you want to do this?" I decided that I would try to explain to her about some of my discomfort. For example, when I'm at the salon and my hair gets washed I feel exposed and self-conscious with my hair wet and combed back. Or the idea of showering and having to re-apply makeup after a tennis match, swimming, or exercising at a club. Those are really difficult situations and I avoid them like the plague. I went on for a bit and she then she understood I'm pretty sure. She said "Well, I think you should do whatever it is you need to do to make you happy."
I haven't told my mom yet, but plan to have coffee with her this week.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 19, 2016, 10:43:56 AM
Here are a few images of me now with no makeup at all!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_straight-on.jpg&hash=5839efb19fe1521e3acadc46efc5d91b50ec97c3) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/straight-on.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_left-side.jpg&hash=18b5fe480300f148b4abaefa0cbe97620f2a24d1) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/left-side.jpg.html)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_worm-view.jpg&hash=9deefb748c723e1fb1221ea573aad643f13b3ae2) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/worm-view.jpg.html)
Here is pretty much my every look.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_everyday.jpg&hash=ea52126240e9511266f3c5909deefe78235fa77a) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/everyday.jpg.html)
I'm curious if you all think that after 26 years of HRT whether you are all seeing M or F or androgynous especially with the no-makeup pics. I honestly can't tell. You can be honest - just don't call me an old hag or something. :'( Maybe people see my face and neither gender jumps out so clearly that they rely on other gender clues like hair, clothes, breasts, jewelry and so they sub-consciously decide female.
I see female without the makeup you're looking pretty good for 57 too
And I think because of that if you do ffs you will take 10 years off
Im 53 and I wish I looked even a tenth as female as you.....needless to say I'm investigating ffs too
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 20, 2016, 01:17:39 AM
Thank you for your honest opinion. It is really helpful. Your observations on specifics are also helpful. I'm expecting surgeons to recommend different procedures and I'll rely on that heavily, but it's good to have other opinions on what does and does not stand out.
Since studying the feminine scale M5 - GN - F5 scale and http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/My_Facial_Feminisation_Thesis_Part_8_How_Feminine_is_Feminine_Enough.html that Ruby posted in her thread, I think that I'm somewhere in the gender neutral plus or minus a point. Before I studied it I was thinking "I look like a boy without my make-up."
However, oddly enough, even if I'm already GN, my resolve to go for some changes is actually getting stronger. What it's doing is making me feel more optimistic that I might expect a better end result. If before I was thinking that I was going to go from having a masculine bone structure to getting to neutral (which, of course I would have done), now I'm hoping to go from neutral to decidedly feminine ~F2 or so. That is exciting for me to think about because that would feel so much more like a match to how think of myself. I'm not an androgynous person, I'm a girl and I want my face to unambiguously reflect that.
Perhaps it's like, I'm running a marathon and I thought I was 10 miles from the goal, but it's only 5 miles away! Now I want to run faster, not to slow down!
You know, I think people see what they expect to see. If you tell them that you got a facelift, they'll probably think, "Wow, she looks good! That is is the best facelift I have ever seen in my entire life!" I mean, I didn't know about FFS until a few years ago, but we're not the general public. People can't guess at an explanation if they have little knowledge or experience of it.
You might be asked who your surgeon is because they will be ready for a facelift of their own!
OTOH, I do sympathize and understand that the last thing that you want is one more deception that always leads to another. So, there is a trade-off there and I don't want to dismiss that.
No love is possible without self-love. Whatever you decide, I hope that you will choose what makes you the most happy.
Good luck on your consultation. If you decide to share your experience I hope that you'll let me know so that I can follow it. However, if you decide to keep it private, I completely understand.
Hugs,
Rhonda
I'm going to see what the experts at Facial Team say, but I'm quite stubborn, and so am not easily swayed from my intentions.
I know that there is literally no one in my life who would condone my decision to have FFS, that also weighs on my mind, and will act as a brake against getting too much 'done'.
I had never seen that M5-GN-F5 scale before, but after passing completely on my very first outing outside amongst strangers 'en-femme' and pre-everything, I realised that it's so much more than just my facial features at work that helps with passing. I also realised that I must look more feminine when 'dolled up' than I ever thought, and that others were seeing something (female) that I was not. Hence I began at that point to actually think that transition might be possible. I think I'm GN on that scale, but how does one really know when we are often our harshest critics? I definitely worry about how I look without makeup, and one day a good few years ago, I went to work without any on at all, and got a fair few comments from people who thought I looked ill or very tired, so definitely something looked 'wrong' to them. So ever since then I've become one of those women who won't go out without at least some 'basic' makeup on.
Maybe you're right in that folks won't suspect I'm trans due to any 'facial work' because it's so far off the general radar. Instead, just that I'm trying to improve my looks, or battle age, or having a mid-life crisis, or maybe they might think I'm just vain.
Hopefully no one will ask who my surgeon was though! :laugh:
I hope that if I really do go ahead with it, it brings me some peace, and maybe enough satisfaction for me to live with other imperfections that I can't or don't want to tackle.
I'll post about my experience after I've been to Marbella, after all, it's just a consultation. I just hope it doesn't cause a rift between me and my partner.
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 20, 2016, 09:06:01 PM
Have received quotes back from PAI (Bangkok) and Dr. Rossi (Buenos Aires).
Quote from PAI came back very rapidly, but it did not have a lot of detail.
With Dr. Rossi's office, a few emails have gone back and forth with Amanda - who is a gem. The communication is really quite incredible. I very much like how they asked me what I'm trying to accomplish, etc. When I received the quote and description back from Dr. Rossi's office, my input was very much incorporated into their proposal. For example, I mentioned that I wanted to "... avoid the look of Beverly Hills women that have had too much plastic surgery..." yes, I say things like that.. ::)
They used my phrase back at me and said that Dr. Rossi strives for a natural look. So I am getting a very good feeling that I was really listened to. That I am being treated as a person, not just a body. This is feeling like a really good fit for me.
I also liked the detail in the proposal. Every procedure was described along with an explanation as to why each procedure was recommended. As expected, there were a set of main recommendations and a few options. I have not heard back from Dr. Cardenas yet, but at this point, to be honest, I think I have decided. I am feeling really good about Dr. Rossi.
I don't want to unfairly say anything negative about PAI because they are surely top surgeons, I will only say why I didn't choose them. For one, the cost was very close to the same. Both PAI and Dr. Rossi are what I consider affordable. All told I will be just over $20k after travel and even including some $$ for hair transplants.
The big difference for me was communication. Being in opposite time zones makes Thailand difficult. Neither me nor they made a big effort to bridge the communication gap. Perhaps if I had been able to converse with the PAI surgeons it would have been equal.
Dr. Rossi proposes to do the following
• Forehead reconstruction (type III)
• Hairline correction
• Brow lift
• Secondary rhinoplasty (see below)
• Upper lip lift (to make it vertically shorter and get more exposition of the upper teeth) (*)
• Chin reduction in height and width
• Jaw feminization (tapering from chin to rear corners)
Optional, which I'm doing is fat injection to the lips and
blepharoplasty if needed when he looks at me
They explained in great detail that they need to move my glabella (the forehead area between the eyebrows) about 8-10 mm back! Which is a lot. I'm still in a bit of shock about that. I keep saying to myself that they are going to take my head apart and put it back together.
They said that my nose looks very feminine, but after they move my forehead back, they will have to adjust the nose or else the nose will appear too long.
The most complex option is the facelift/necklift which they did recommend. They explained in very great detail that I should do it, but that I could do it at the time of FFS or a few months later. Since they are removing a lot of bone, it is likely that I am going to end up with some loose skin, so a facelift would be good. It would be cheaper to do it at the same time as the FFS. However, if I wait a few months and do it on a second trip after I've healed, I should expect a better result.
More effort but a better result is what I've decided on. Also, I'm thinking that if there is anything else that needs to be done, I could take care of it in 6-12 months. It just seems unwise to pull my older skin over swollen features before they've healed. I could end up with additional lines and wrinkles.
Took this selfie this morning before we went out for breakfast.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb277%2Fcycle-girl%2Fpre-op%2Fth_breakfast.jpg&hash=f59c0dd87582ccbe90e3c5afde5ec13869b2f910) (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/cycle-girl/media/pre-op/breakfast.jpg.html)
-Rhonda
There is definitely an issue of looking like a celeb who's had too much plastic surgery, there are definite cues on the face that can give away the fact that someone has had 'work done'. I want to try and avoid that look as much as possible. I also don't want to lose any facial expression ability, and that is a definite risk and a big concern of mine.
Can I speak candidly?
That is a lot of surgery you are considering, especially if you go for the options and the second set of procedures. For someone who passes very well already, I'm surprised you want to have that much done. I'm sure you will look great when it's all healed and complete, but you will certainly look quite different. If that's what you are expecting and are after, then that's fine, but you certainly don't need it all to pass. But I'm sure you already know that.
It's my central forehead area (glabella) that concerns me too, and is something I want Facial Team to look at. But I am quite happy with my nose, so if they say I'll need a rhinoplasty as well, for similar reasons to you, then I'll most likely just drop the idea of forehead modifications because that would be too much for me to handle. Maybe it's possible to have the eyebrow lift and blepharoplasty without any aggressive bone reconstruction? Then I'd have to have a conventional hair transplant like I did before at DHI, i.e. without the scalp strip removal.
I am also happy with my chin and jawline as they are. It's very much like my mother's (a family trait). Maybe the surgeon might suggest making those areas less prominent, and I suppose they do have a slight masculine edge to them, but hrt and fat distribution have helped enough in that area that I don't feel I need surgery there, rightly or wrongly.
My dad always says that when I look at him, it's like my mom is looking at him.
I am lucky in that I look younger than my age, so that helps too.
One thing I am surprised about is the price, $20k sounds very good to me.
I will definitely compare this to any quotes I get from Facial Team, it's really good to have such information to hand when going for a consultation, thanks for posting it.
I'm glad your sister is supportive, good luck when telling your mother, I won't tell mine until afterwards.
I hope it all works out for you. :)
FFS is scheduled for October 12 - will be in Buenos Aires for two weeks after surgery. I'm a bit busy the next couple of days, but will post more soon!
-Rhonda
Congrats Rhonda!!! How exciting!!!! :)
(//)
Look forward to updates all the best in your evolution :)
Rhonda, you went from trying to decide on a surgeon... to having a surgery date set with Dr. Rossi... all in just 1 week! :) Glad things are moving along well for you!
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on August 24, 2016, 07:58:16 PM
Rhonda, you went from trying to decide on a surgeon... to having a surgery date set with Dr. Rossi... all in just 1 week! :) Glad things are moving along well for you!
Hi Emily,
Yes, the process with Dr. Rossi's team has been great so far. Also, having women on Susan's that have had such good outcomes with him helped a lot.
I was looking through my inbox and there must be two dozen emails that have been exchanged between Dr. Rossi's office and myself by now.
I was thinking about it this morning and imagined, "what if I didn't do the FFS this year, how would I look back on that decision 10 years from now?" I knew exactly, it would be like starting HRT or having GRS. Looking back on that, in so many ways I wish that I could have somehow changed my body at a younger age. Every year of putting off a positive change is a year of wasted potential.
Of course I'm worried about complications - they can happen - but that won't change by postponing.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Quote from: V on August 22, 2016, 06:51:22 AM
I'm going to see what the experts at Facial Team say, but I'm quite stubborn, and so am not easily swayed from my intentions.
I know that there is literally no one in my life who would condone my decision to have FFS, that also weighs on my mind, and will act as a brake against getting too much 'done'.
I had never seen that M5-GN-F5 scale before, but after passing completely on my very first outing outside amongst strangers 'en-femme' and pre-everything, I realised that it's so much more than just my facial features at work that helps with passing. I also realised that I must look more feminine when 'dolled up' than I ever thought, and that others were seeing something (female) that I was not. Hence I began at that point to actually think that transition might be possible. I think I'm GN on that scale, but how does one really know when we are often our harshest critics? I definitely worry about how I look without makeup, and one day a good few years ago, I went to work without any on at all, and got a fair few comments from people who thought I looked ill or very tired, so definitely something looked 'wrong' to them. So ever since then I've become one of those women who won't go out without at least some 'basic' makeup on.
Maybe you're right in that folks won't suspect I'm trans due to any 'facial work' because it's so far off the general radar. Instead, just that I'm trying to improve my looks, or battle age, or having a mid-life crisis, or maybe they might think I'm just vain.
Hopefully no one will ask who my surgeon was though! :laugh:
I hope that if I really do go ahead with it, it brings me some peace, and maybe enough satisfaction for me to live with other imperfections that I can't or don't want to tackle.
I'll post about my experience after I've been to Marbella, after all, it's just a consultation. I just hope it doesn't cause a rift between me and my partner.
There is definitely an issue of looking like a celeb who's had too much plastic surgery, there are definite cues on the face that can give away the fact that someone has had 'work done'. I want to try and avoid that look as much as possible. I also don't want to lose any facial expression ability, and that is a definite risk and a big concern of mine.
Can I speak candidly?
That is a lot of surgery you are considering, especially if you go for the options and the second set of procedures. For someone who passes very well already, I'm surprised you want to have that much done. I'm sure you will look great when it's all healed and complete, but you will certainly look quite different. If that's what you are expecting and are after, then that's fine, but you certainly don't need it all to pass. But I'm sure you already know that.
Thank you for speaking candidly. I did think about this.
Unfortunately, I can't share the whole 8-page recommendation from Dr. Rossi's team. It's just too much detail and too specific to me.
I'm grasping at a way to explain it. There are two reasons that I have chosen to do all of the work listed. One, going half-way in one area would leave a less satisfactory result. The cost and recovery time would not be significantly affected overall, so it makes little sense. Next, when one area is changed another area has to change to restore balance.
Dr. Rossi was quite clear anything less than a type III reconstruction would not give the best result. Then, with such a major change to my browbone and glabella, my nose has to change to match.
I only want to do a forehead reconstruction one time in my life. It makes the most sense to aim for the best possible result. Yes, it will be a big change for people, but that is something that they will get used to in time. Just like my transition 26 years ago.
Another way to look at it is this, the expert that I trust has given me very specific advice about what to do for the best result. Dr. Rossi says 8-10 mm. I can listen to that or say, "No, let's change it less than that so that people are less likely to make a big deal out of it." I just know that if I do that, I'll be sewing the seeds for later regret. The people that really matter to me know that I'm doing this and are supportive. I'm not going to decide this based on a wider circle of people. It's just too important.
Quote from: V on August 22, 2016, 06:51:22 AM
It's my central forehead area (glabella) that concerns me too, and is something I want Facial Team to look at. But I am quite happy with my nose, so if they say I'll need a rhinoplasty as well, for similar reasons to you, then I'll most likely just drop the idea of forehead modifications because that would be too much for me to handle. Maybe it's possible to have the eyebrow lift and blepharoplasty without any aggressive bone reconstruction? Then I'd have to have a conventional hair transplant like I did before at DHI, i.e. without the scalp strip removal.
I am also happy with my chin and jawline as they are. It's very much like my mother's (a family trait). Maybe the surgeon might suggest making those areas less prominent, and I suppose they do have a slight masculine edge to them, but hrt and fat distribution have helped enough in that area that I don't feel I need surgery there, rightly or wrongly.
My dad always says that when I look at him, it's like my mom is looking at him.
I am lucky in that I look younger than my age, so that helps too.
One thing I am surprised about is the price, $20k sounds very good to me.
I will definitely compare this to any quotes I get from Facial Team, it's really good to have such information to hand when going for a consultation, thanks for posting it.
I'm glad your sister is supportive, good luck when telling your mother, I won't tell mine until afterwards.
I hope it all works out for you. :)
Actually, the FFS will be less than $20k. It's probably best to do your own consultation though. Airline tickets, accommodations and hair transplants will get it to that amount.
It's best to do your own consultation, but I think it's helpful for people to get a ballpark idea.
I know that everyone's circumstances are different. I hope that by explaining my own thoughts, perhaps it is helpful for you. I know that I learn by reading what others have posted that have gone through the decision and physical process.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on August 24, 2016, 11:26:52 PM
Thank you for speaking candidly. I did think about this.
Unfortunately, I can't share the whole 8-page recommendation from Dr. Rossi's team. It's just too much detail and too specific to me.
I'm grasping at a way to explain it. There are two reasons that I have chosen to do all of the work listed. One, going half-way in one area would leave a less satisfactory result. The cost and recovery time would not be significantly affected overall, so it makes little sense. Next, when one area is changed another area has to change to restore balance.
Dr. Rossi was quite clear anything less than a type III reconstruction would not give the best result. Then, with such a major change to my browbone and glabella, my nose has to change to match.
I only want to do a forehead reconstruction one time in my life. It makes the most sense to aim for the best possible result. Yes, it will be a big change for people, but that is something that they will get used to in time. Just like my transition 26 years ago.
Another way to look at it is this, the expert that I trust has given me very specific advice about what to do for the best result. Dr. Rossi says 8-10 mm. I can listen to that or say, "No, let's change it less than that so that people are less likely to make a big deal out of it." I just know that if I do that, I'll be sewing the seeds for later regret. The people that really matter to me know that I'm doing this and are supportive. I'm not going to decide this based on a wider circle of people. It's just too important.
Actually, the FFS will be less than $20k. It's probably best to do your own consultation though. Airline tickets, accommodations and hair transplants will get it to that amount.
It's best to do your own consultation, but I think it's helpful for people to get a ballpark idea.
I know that everyone's circumstances are different. I hope that by explaining my own thoughts, perhaps it is helpful for you. I know that I learn by reading what others have posted that have gone through the decision and physical process.
Hugs,
Rhonda
I understand that you have to put a lot of weight on what the surgeon says, they are the experts after all.
I also understand your reasoning about restoring balance to all areas of your face, and of not wanting to do half a job, and forever living with regret that you didn't go "all the way".
You do seem to have made peace with your decision, and that is great. I'm not trying to undermine your decisions, just trying to be as honest and objective as I can.
I'm not brave enough to post photos of myself on this site, if I was, I'd certainly ask your opinion on my face. Part of me wants to do that, but I'm paranoid about outing myself.
As you say, you need to do it for yourself, and not be too concerned about others.
Maybe if I had
some support from someone in my life, rather than the barrage of resistance I am getting, I might be more open to a wider facial change. Our lives are different though.
Reading your thoughts are helpful to me.
Anyway, I wish you well :)
I'd say go for it girl, I had a little, hardly noticeable work done, but just the little things that really boost confidence :)
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on August 24, 2016, 07:58:16 PM
Rhonda, you went from trying to decide on a surgeon... to having a surgery date set with Dr. Rossi... all in just 1 week! :) Glad things are moving along well for you!
Hi Emily,
Thanks. It still seems like there is something that I need to do each day for it. The last loose string now is the apartment and then in a couple of weeks I'll do a Skype discussion with Dr Rossi to discuss details about the procedures.
Hugs,
Rhonda
My very young for her age 87 year old mother and I went out for coffee today and I mentioned to her that I was going to have some cosmetic surgery done. She asked me what I was going to have done and I explained mainly I was going to have my brow and jaw reduced. I then told her that it was highly-specialized, for people with my type of background. She gave me a blank stare for I don't know how long and said "OOOHHHH, I get you! You know Rhonda, I don't even think about that anymore."
That was pretty affirming really. After 26 years of making new memories as mother-daughter, what came before seems like a faded memory, at least for me - perhaps for her too. I'm sure that it took my mom a long time to change her perception of me, and surely it was gradual.
Our conversation simply went back to other things. The health of her 70-something "boyfriend" etc., etc.
Thinking about this has really put a smile on my face all day. To my mom, maybe I am just her daughter now. That means a lot.
I think that this thread has reached it's logical conclusion. The surgeon and date are set. Family knows. It's now just a matter of preparing and waiting.
Closer to the surgery date (October 12) I'll start a new thread with Dr Rossi and FFS in the title in order to make it easier for people to find it in search. I'll try to document the process with photos for you all.
-Rhonda
congratz! Wish you the best of luck.
Quote from: ~Carmen on August 25, 2016, 10:07:20 AM
I'd say go for it girl, I had a little, hardly noticeable work done, but just the little things that really boost confidence :)
Hi Carmen, Thank you. I bet that even a small change can make a big difference. It's all about feeling confident!
Hugs,
Rhonda
May be i can help...
My name is Rahul and i am in the transitioning period now. I Had my breast augmentation with Dr Narendra kaushik and i want to get Facial Feminization too . I have contacted him for that and he showed me some of his work and i was quite impressed.
Moderator Edit (photos removed but links on our links page)
Thats pretty impressive, Rahul - it loosk like your skin also changed in texture and brightness.
I also am in the similar situation as in the original post - I transitiones in the 1990ies and had GRS in 2000. FFS did not really exist by then, except Dr O was starting up in that era. But it was exotic. After staying away from trans issues for 15 years, I took a new look and found that FFS is now widely available and also voice surgery is getting good. I did the latter now and am very impressed. I consider FFS, but also I am GN on that scale - having neutral and some feminine some masculine features, but not at all clear cut. The surgeons always seem to suggest that the changes are not going to be big but that if I want to change something, I need to basically do the standard procedures of forehead, hairline, nose, chin and jaw correction. It bugs me that I would have to go through all of these procedures for just a little change, also because they all have risks. All my friends except one tell me I am crazy to even think about this. FacialTeam suggested I do not need FFS either - so I am heavily undecided. I though, I would do this now as I am 41 years - rather do it now than do it in 10 years and then be angry about myself for not having the upsides of it all when I was in my 40ies - but then again I do not know if I should go for it at all. Its such a hard hard decision.
I am also not known as trans, basically being stealth, so I cannot post pictures here, sadly, as it is too public for me. I did send them to some people in private messages though and bascially so far, most say the same as I already know - the changes will be positive, but subtle and its a hard decision if its worth it. Sigh.
Quote from: anjaq on September 09, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
[...]
I also am in the similar situation as in the original post - I transitiones in the 1990ies and had GRS in 2000. FFS did not really exist by then, except Dr O was starting up in that era. But it was exotic.
[....]
I am also not known as trans, basically being stealth, so I cannot post pictures here, sadly, as it is too public for me. I did send them to some people in private messages though and bascially so far, most say the same as I already know - the changes will be positive, but subtle and its a hard decision if its worth it. Sigh.
We have very similar stories! I understand about not posting pictures in public. I'll send a PM in case you want to discuss it that way.
A lot of people have trouble understanding. I get a lot of "You look just fine!" I really have had to think hard and find the answers deep within myself for why I want to do this. I'm not advising anyone to follow my steps, I only feel that by sharing my own thoughts, that maybe it will help others find clarity. I know that in reading other people's posts about what they've gone through, it has helped me a great deal.
I'm not sure if I posted this already, but I feel a bit of anxiety when I get my hair done (after it's shampooed) or if my hair is super sweaty and I'm not wearing make-up, etc. I feel more self-conscious in those situations. I'm much more confident when I'm perfectly coiffed, but it's hard to be that way all the time.
Quote from: RahulIndia on September 07, 2016, 06:51:42 AM
May be i can help...
My name is Rahul and i am in the transitioning period now. I Had my breast augmentation with Dr Narendra kaushik and i want to get Facial Feminization too . I have contacted him for that and he showed me some of his work and i was quite impressed.
Hi Rahul, you posted this on the FFS thread I began
<photos removed>. Is this genuine? Can you supply some more details of the work you had? The two pics look splendid: but won't really convince anyone on here without a bit more backup if possible please?
Moderator Edit: Photos were removed as they were part of a link to a commercial site. The links are documented in our links section.
Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on September 09, 2016, 04:34:47 PM
I'm not sure if I posted this already, but I feel a bit of anxiety when I get my hair done (after it's shampooed) or if my hair is super sweaty and I'm not wearing make-up, etc. I feel more self-conscious in those situations. I'm much more confident when I'm perfectly coiffed, but it's hard to be that way all the time.
Yes - I obsess a bit with hair, too. I do not use a lot of makeup, so that is not the biggie, but I need a feminine hairstyle or I feel odd. I try not to look into the mirror after showering and also in some bad lights (elevators! I hate elevators with that dreaded ceiling light) I do not want to look. Others seem not to notice it because its still me, but I hate those. But thats the thing - doing 8 hours of extensive surgery with risks of nerve loss and other complications just to get rid of some odd, maybe subjective and unrealistic perception in some situations? Seems to be a bit crazy to me myself ;)
I don't know how to put it because i dunno if we are allowed to give negative reviews on our past surgeons but I guess we have the moral responsibility to warn others. I know transitioning is really an expensive process so sometimes we are tempted to go to the one with the best package price. I just want to warn girls if posibble avoid the famous ffs surgeon in Mexico for various reasons. Cheap yeah but quality of work<... it felt to me> that attitude and standard of care are sub par mediocre at best.
And yes my comment is based on personal experience. I had to redo everything.
Moderators edit to removing bashing and clarify.
Quote from: anjaq on September 10, 2016, 07:51:48 AM
Yes - I obsess a bit with hair, too. I do not use a lot of makeup, so that is not the biggie, but I need a feminine hairstyle or I feel odd. I try not to look into the mirror after showering and also in some bad lights (elevators! I hate elevators with that dreaded ceiling light) I do not want to look. Others seem not to notice it because its still me, but I hate those. But thats the thing - doing 8 hours of extensive surgery with risks of nerve loss and other complications just to get rid of some odd, maybe subjective and unrealistic perception in some situations? Seems to be a bit crazy to me myself ;)
Crazy. Good question really. :) Becoming obsessed with something to the point of neglecting what's important is unhealthy. Maybe a working definition for "crazy" below. Or, just having one's values out-of-balance.
I think we are in similar situations in some respects, but not all. One thing in common, we don't
need FFS to live our lives. Some people really need it to pass and you could argue that they need it to earn a living and have lives that are anything close to "normal." Perhaps we are both established enough that we could go on as we are and function in our careers and relationships, etc. So it's optional.
That means it's a matter of priorities and it comes down to values. I said before that it is a personal decision and I very strongly believe that.
Surely I have a lot of values like personal virtue, family, career/wealth, friendship, health, fitness, experiences, etc. Not attempting to put these in any order. Somewhere in there is a desire to be feel confident and attractive. In the world we are certainly judged a great deal on how we look and I know that the way I look affects my view of myself as well as the experiences I have. Because, when I lack confidence, sometimes I hesitate to do things I might otherwise do. There is definitely a balance to be found between caring about personal appearance and being a good person. However, we can care about both, can't we?
I'm going to invest a lot of time, money and effort on this, it's true, but I think that the pay-off is pretty high and will be there for the rest of my life. I believe that I will come out of this feeling satisfied that I made a good decision and invested in my own well-being and feeling of self-worth and confidence. I'll feel good about it every time I look in the mirror, meet a new person or see myself in a photo. For that matter, just being "out there" in the world. Because when I step out the door, I care what I look like.
"It's not my fault, it's how I'm programmed to function." Lily Allen --The Fear
Thanks for raising the question though. It's good to be self-aware and know why one is making choices.
That was really intresting enjoyable , i understand what you mean its a personal thing and i have reality on groups of people i have a big button on that and i intend to have ffs too so that no one will ever clock me (well thats the plan)
But i must say you come across 100% as a cis woman indeed you are very succesful i would never have guessed and i am constantly scoping woman these days looking for a template for my self , love your voice
You already look great ffs will enhance that no end
Thanks Markie, I'm glad that you enjoyed the video. Also, thanks for commenting on my voice. Even after all these years, I still work on it. Trying to improve.
Some days I feel very self-confident and others I feel like nothing in my closet will look good on me.
Good luck on your own FFS!
Pleasure and thank you : )