Question: What if there were a pill that you could take and it would take away all of your feelings of dysphoria completely and forever? All your identification and desire to live as the gender that does not conform to your birth sex would be erased in a moment.
For those that are long past transition, consider this in the past tense. If given the option before transition, would you prefer this option instead of transition?
I'll let this question stand for a while before I give my own answer, because I've thought about it for a long time already.
If this has already been discussed at length, please redirect!
-Rhonda
I have thought about this very deeply before. I would not take the pill.
It would fundamentally change who I am. I would become someone else. It would be equivalent to suicide.
There is no question that dysphoria sucks and it would have been better to have been born without it. But I am.
Parents would give it to their children as a preventative measure. Like a vaccine.
Nope, I agree it would change who I'm fundamentally. I wouldn't take it. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Deborah on August 20, 2016, 02:45:23 PM
I have thought about this very deeply before. I would not take the pill.
It would fundamentally change who I am. I would become someone else. It would be equivalent to suicide.
There is no question that dysphoria sucks and it would have been better to have been born without it. But I am.
My thoughts exactly! For me the price is too high.
I couldn't destroy my identity that way. Actually, in my mind, the person left behind wouldn't be me at all. Some shell, automaton or artificial person. It seems kind of scary to think about that man-ghost occupying my body once I was snuffed out.
Hmm... sounds like a good plot for a movie or book....
I agree with others here.
We are the sum of our experiences- if I didn't experience the dysphoria then I might not have my open acceptance of all different types of people.
I must admit that 18 months ago I would have taken that pill in a heartbeat to stop / prevent the mental battle which I was in the middle of, but as a wise person once told me the only difference between a bad experience and any other experience is time.
Once sufficient time has past we can look back at bad experiences with a different lens. Much like now I look back at that time in my life - it was not great but the struggle allowed me to grow mentally and come to terms with who I am.
Take care
Steph
I have always said yes I would take it...anything has got to be better than Dysphoria...right? Be careful what you wish for...
The whole problem with the pill thing is as everyone has said, it would change me in some fundamental way...and underneath all this male façade I currently drag around, lurks a vibrant happy woman patiently biding her time, which is very close...that would mean the death of her and she is me...so if push came to shove...No I don't think I would.
Liz
Hey All...
First... Rhonda!... What a good idea for a thread that will get the old mental gears turning!!!
I agree with many of the thoughts presented here.... I would not have wanted to change who I was by swallowing a pill... I think we are all given challenges to deal with... To build upon... To make discoveries about...To share what we learn along the way with others... Our path is far from the easiest or the most convenient but it is far from the worst... Along with the hard stuff we experience joys that others may never know in a lifetime... The joy of living our truth... The joy of learning to let go of the fears of how others will judge us... The joy that comes from the freedom of jumping off a cliff and finding that instead of our worst fears awaiting us.. A life finally our own awaits as reward for our courage!!!
I Love You All Brave Sisters!!!... Onward We Go!!!
Ashley :)
This same question was very well answered decades ago in the 1950's movie, "Harvey" staring Jimmy Stewart. He played an "eccentric" person who needed to be fixed. His well meaning aunt insisted upon it. So his character, well love by everyone said "If it means so much to you you, I will..." So off he goes to the "Sanitarium" for his cure....
His well meaning aunt soon follows in a taxi. On the way there.... Plot device
The Taxi Driver: ...I've been driving this route for 15 years. I've brought 'em out here to get that stuff, and I've drove 'em home after they had it. It changes them... On the way out here, they sit back and enjoy the ride. They talk to me; sometimes we stop and watch the sunsets, and look at the birds flyin'. Sometimes we stop and watch the birds when there ain't no birds. And look at the sunsets when its raining. We have a swell time. And I always get a big tip. But afterwards, oh oh...
Veta Louise Simmons: "Afterwards, oh oh"? What do you mean, "afterwards, oh oh"?
The Taxi Driver: They crab, crab, crab. They yell at me. Watch the lights. Watch the brakes, Watch the intersections. They scream at me to hurry. They got no faith in me, or my buggy. Yet, it's the same cab, the same driver. and we're going back over the very same road. It's no fun. And no tips... After this he'll be a perfectly normal human being. And you know what stinkers they are!
Funny how my wife and I had a short discussion earlier on "Curse or Blessing" aspect of being TG. (I said both)
After having many times thought the feelings of dysphoria were gone.... Well call me a cynic. The only guarantees in life is death and taxes.
"Erased" is a powerful word. Back when I was like 4 y/o I wished, I prayed, I dreamed I would wake up as as a girl. Most importantly, that all memories of me as a boy would be "Erased". As if I was was, and always will be a girl.
Back to the pill.... Well It is Both. Like others have already said it would fundamentally change who I am. If you "Erase" most of who I was, Then just who am I?
Today I am not lost. Yesterday, maybe I was but I had... a dream, A hope. If I took "The Pill" back then....
Would I have put the hard, oft times difficult work into my personal growth? Well, I am as lazy as the next person, maybe more so because I know I can make up for it. That hard work made me a better person and vastly strengthen the bonds between my wife and I. It also helped in my career.
I spent the last 7 years sorting out as I took on the Trans-Beast how NOT TO change who I fundamentally am while at the same time preserving who I am... BOTH aspects of me.
Seven years ago when I took on the the challenge of really addressing this, I knew then I needed to sort out how to get both the female and male aspects to live in harmony. I lived through decades of conflict. I discovered harmony. I also discovered the joy joy of feeling and even being the real me.
If I take a pill to suppress the real me, just how is that fundamentally different from what I tried for decades, denying who I am? Just how different can the results be?
As painful as it may be at times, being the REAL me brings me joy. I tried really really hard to be the "Un-Real" me. A pill is not not going to change how that worked out.
definitely would take it. Maybe I would still transition later, but either way I just need a moments peace right now!
Quote from: Amanda_Combs on August 20, 2016, 10:02:29 PM
definitely would take it. Maybe I would still transition later, but either way I just need a moments peace right now!
You sound like things are pretty tough for you?
Have a hug...Take care of yourself
Liz
*
There was a similar thread a year ago or so asking if one would rather have been born cis than trans. The majority professed that while it would have been nice, a relief not to go through with this, to have all the anatomy correct with the identity, that it would have changed them fundamentally.
Likewise, I again post that while maybe that pill would be one quick solution, it would change who I was and who I am.
No, I am not totally happy that I was forced to exist a 'male' that I was not - that I had to do that the most of my first two decades of life - that I nevertheless embrace all that I did in that 'male' persona. My past life was me no matter what form - transition was my life - post-transition became my future life - I own all my past, present, future stages, for better or for worse.
Taking that magic pill would erase my essence. I can't - won't - do that no matter what lure of any miracle pill. It would be no different than a lobotomy.
Yeh, life would have been better to have been born without the burden. However, living with transition makes me 'me', I would not be 'me' without it.
Specific to this condition, we experience in our life and time what only a relatively few will ever know - we experience both female and male; many of us experience the bonus of between and beyond that binary.
*
Allow me to add that all we need do is look at each other on these pages and threads - especially our 'before and after' posts.
Transition sparks self-improvement:
Mentally we become better persons and better aware of human diversity.
We also become better physically; we lose excess weight through exercise and dietary improvements.
*
** trigger warning **
I generally hate the oft posed hypothetical questions, iyamwhatiyam and there is no pill and that's the nut.
Then I read @joanneb's allusion to 'harvey' and this
Quote from: dazedAndConfused01 on August 20, 2016, 05:20:27 PM
as a wise person once told me the only difference between a bad experience and any other experience is time.
Once sufficient time has past we can look back at bad experiences with a different lens. Much like now I look back at that time in my life - it was not great but the struggle allowed me to grow mentally and come to terms with who I am.
Take care
Steph
And I'm teary and a little broken up. Which actually feels kinda good because I'm feeling feminine which has been missing in my 3 weeks experiment with going off estrogen. Yup I'm still a chick.
Steph, I wish that were true of bad experiences. I have memories of the same effed up things in my childhood that made it unsafe to even consider that I might have been a girl.
My mother's rage and incredibly self centered anger over gender roles were directed at her children in manipulation and coercion to become what she expected. The abuse wasn't often physical however that sometimes happened also and the threat of it was frequent. I've only recently realized the impact of this.
The threats were backed up in the reality that when she chose to beat a dog or a horse, there was little holding back. I didn't realize then just how scarring that was.
I can acknowledge these things and I can live with them and I can even forgive her some of those behaviors. I can't forget them and I also hate that every time I need to go peel another layer off of that onion there's new pain.
So no blue pill for me. I took the red pill long ago and I'm still running down the rabbit hole.
Now I'm gonna watch Harvey and probably cry a little more.
You know, we've had this same discussion in AA. If they had a magic pill to take away the craving and obsession to drink would we take it? At first we all say yes, then I can go a out and drink like normies. Then most of us stop and realize the same thing. We wouldn't be who we are. I wouldn't have helped the people I've helped with my experience, strength and hope. Even though it's taken 54 years to get here, and a lot of pain along the way, I wouldn't trade a minute. I already have folks at AA pulling me aside after meetings asking how I knew I'm trans gendered or how they can get more info on the subject. If I went the other route I'd first "fix" my alcoholism and dysphoria. Then my phobias, ADHD, etc. Pretty soon we'd all be the same cookie cutter vanilla wafers. Boring to say the least. I believe I'm exactly where God wants me at this moment, feeling what I'm feeling, being who I'm being, even typing what I'm typing. It took a long time to get here, I think I'll keep it!
Sounds like using a sledgehammer to fix a Rolex.
My wife would probably put it in my wheaties
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Gertrude on August 21, 2016, 12:38:32 PM
My wife would probably put it in my wheaties
Oh, yeah! That's what would happen to me.
I think my wife is cheering for the movement to bring back conversion therapy and involuntary commitment. I can see her finding a friendly judge to declare me incompetent ("He thinks he's a woman, Yer Honor!") and getting help for me.
A pill would make this so much easier. :P
Quote from: Michelle_P on August 21, 2016, 02:15:00 PM
Oh, yeah! That's what would happen to me.
I think my wife is cheering for the movement to bring back conversion therapy and involuntary commitment. I can see her finding a friendly judge to declare me incompetent ("He thinks he's a woman, Yer Honor!") and getting help for me.
A pill would make this so much easier. :P
My wife isn't like that. Ashe just wants me back in suppression mode. She'd like it if she didn't have to deal with it. On the other hand, it makes me who I am.
Scanned, inspected and approved by the NSA
There already are pills to cure dysphoria. For me, it's Estradiol.
I don't think I could stand to take that pill. I'm going to put a Hindu spin on it. For some reason, I chose to take this life, to be born in this body. Maybe I've lived female in most or all of my previous lives, and I wanted to try out a "light" version of male; not very well-built for a male, fine bones, average height and lower weight, but a bit hairy and aggressive in confrontations (to a point). I did not like the mental effects it had on me, in retrospect, looking back on a couple of men exposing me to pornography through magazines when I was hardly a teenager. I'm embarrassed by the stupidity shown towards women occasionally in that previous life before transition. Supposedly, I might have picked a body and a family to be born in that would give me a safety "out" in case I freaked out on the "male experience."
I knew something wasn't right when I was about 13 years old, but even younger at almost 8 years old on a subconscious level (this was for a Christmas play, playing as an angel made up to look feminine for that role - the interesting thing was, I only started to learn to talk and read and write formally that August or September at the school for the deaf in San Antonio - I had already gone through kindergarten and what would have been first grade with NO IDEA what was going on and why I couldn't just stay home and play). I felt something like, "I see this stuff on me, which makes me visualize a girl in my mind's eye, then my Dad, and I immediately get scared because I don't want Dad to see me like this, because I'm afraid he would not like me anymore or not be pleased with my appearance, which never happened before." I felt very self-conscious, vulnerable, even.
Understand, I didn't know how to communicate my feelings, except by acting on them. I could only feel what I felt and act on them. I would show my anger, I would hide somewhere out of fear, I would hang onto something out of greed and would yell myself blue-black after it was taken from me, I would be sad and cry myself to sleep, or I would be happy in fascination with something new in front of me. I lived by my senses and emotions during the Deaf Years (up to seven and a half years old). The other thing was, and I wish I had acted on it when I learned about it as a teenager, Dad had told me in his story telling (he was 48 when I was born, one of the Great Generation or the GI Generation of WWII) about a friend he had, who was a ->-bleeped-<-, and he told me what such a person was like, and this man was a really, really good friend of Dad's. This should have told me that it was okay to tell Dad right then and there, "F!@#$, Dad! I need help! Something doesn't feel right! I'm sorta like that friend you're telling me about. What do I do, what do I do??" But I was too scared. Later, when I finally decided to go through with transition at almost 32, Dad got to see me change right in front of him physiologically, though I was not allowed to tell him because of the frailty of his health (he was 80 when I started and died just after turning 82). The second clue was that he said one time during the previous life, "Son, you know I love you. I'll always love you. I'll support you in whatever you want to do. You don't have to worry. I'll always love you." It didn't occur to me that he may have been trying to tell me something after Mom may have gone to him to tell him after I came out to her about 10-11 years prior to my decision to come out. Mom didn't get to see that I decided to go through with this, as she passed just under two years prior to his passing.
I needed an environment to try out this body, and it so did not work... I was able to go ahead and transition MTF as a fail-safe. I really did not like how it make me feel as a male, what it did to my mind. I think what happened was that I carried a significant amount of saṃskāra, or mental impressions from memories from past lives that cause me to respond to things I encounter - It could be that I have lived so many female lives that the male body is a shock to me. It's like in western parlance, we have a brain map that tells us where things are supposed to be, and our bodies are supposed to match that brain map, but it does not. There's a mismatch between brain and body sexes. From the eastern perspective I'm coming from, it seems to be I had (in that in-between-death-and-rebirth period) ignored my advisor's instructions that I must stay in the path of female lives and that a male body would not work for me, but stepped back and wondered, "Is there a way that I can experience a male life and yet have the fail-safe of a feminine body that I could transition to if the idea failed without committing suicide?" To do so is miserable and could set you back further than if you just stick it out and finally shed your old body like old clothes and get ready to put on new clothes (another birth). This was a compromise so that I would not be as damaged at the end of this life as I would have been had I woken up to my female mental impressions while a 360-lbs body-builder - I know what it's like to know your true nature and not feel like you're allowed to act on it honestly - just pure misery!
Nope, I could not take this pill. See, there are three layers of bodies we have. The physical body you and I can see, the "subtle" body of yours I cannot see, but you can feel and experience, and then the "causal" body that you and I are not even aware of, but gives rise to the physical and subtle bodies we need to live in this world. The pill might change the mental experience of this life, which is referring to the physiological part of the brain, but it wouldn't change the subtle impressions you've carried over from a previous life because firstly, western science doesn't believe in reincarnation, and secondly, because it's based on western science, doctors don't know how to access the subtle body, never mind manipulate things to change aspects of mental impressions that will stay with you, from body to body until you finally do something to satisfy your karmas or burn them through accomplishing what you set out to do in this life, before you forgot your memories prior to injection into your present body. Whatever your desires are, if you listen to them, they will guide you to satisfying the unsatisfied karmas from the previous life(s).
I do find the 'pill' question interesting whenever it crops up. There's not a day that goes by that I do not wish that I had been born female (and, increasingly, fighting the urges to take steps on the path to womanhood). However, till the day I die, I will always feel guilty about the hurt I caused to my wife through my confession after 20+ years of marriage and, whilst our marriage has suffered enourmously (and quite possibly irreperably) as a result. So, would I take the pill? Absolutely.
I think a more telling question to ask is to consider that there are two pills and your only choice is to take one or other - you cannot opt out of taking either. The first pill is as described in this thread - it restores your mind to match your birth gender and expunges all thoughts of transition, ->-bleeped-<- etc. The second pill changes your body but leaves your mind unaffected. I know this goes against the grain of non-binary gender etc. but I find it a far more challenging decision to consider and, in all honesty, I'm not sure which I would take.
Amanda
Amanda, in reply, I would take the second pill!
My mind is me. The body it resides in is simply its mechanical container. So if I change the body, the me remains. If I change the mind, the me is destroyed. If I do nothing at all, the me feels a continual pull towards extinguishing itself which is simply another way of taking your first pill.
I'm not sure I can answer this question and decide if I would or would not take the pill. When I first saw the thread title I said to myself "There is such a pill and I took it everyday before changing to a patch." But then after reading some of the posts and considering what others stated, taking such a pill would change me from who I am. I'm sure my wife would want me to take it and that would be best. But suppose the outcome was worse and she didn't like the new me. I might just be like everybody else. That could be both good and bad.
I'm not sure what I would do at this point.