...in a print spaghetti strap sundress, strapless bra, drop earrings, a little daytime make up; all day looking like I'm ready to go out on a dinner date at the close of a nice summer vacation day. It feels comfortable, natural and 'right.' The internal woman is out of the cage. I like how I look and feel; it feels like me. Nowhere near ready for presentation and coming out publicly but honestly, I think I look OK today, not something that would scare and damage little children. Again, it feels good.
But there will be no date. I've been sitting here most of the day at the computer trying to select and local gender therapist and trying to decide how to present the need for therapy to my wife. How ironic.
My wife gets home in a couple of hours. Soon I'll end up back in my shorts and a tee shirt behind the facade--business as usual, pretend nothing is new. I have not yet come out to her. I hate this as it feels so dishonest.
It's been a bad, dysphoric day. Uhhhh! I'm sorry but I just have to share my frustration on the forum but I know no other place to go with it. At least I spent the day on groundwork to get things moving forward.
Thank you for listening. I'm not seeking answers or advice, just need to know there are souls out there who can understand these feelings.
Hi, Steph. I totally get how you feel. I was the same way for many years, dressing in secret. The dishonesty and my feelings of guilt over it were what told me that something had to change. I knew that, if I didn't take charge of the situation, I would get discovered and the stuff would hit the fan.
I opted to come out first and seek therapy later. There was no other way to do it in my situation. YMMV
Thank you, so much.
As you know, it's not about the dressing or the clothes, it's about the unspoken suppressed truth, the internal gender milieu.
Tomorrow's another day.
I can remember being so scared going to my intake, then first gender therapy appointment, telling my wife, starting HRT and telling her and ..... I konw the pain and turmoil and I am sending good thoughts your way.
I spent an evening a few months ago reading the entire thread of years of your coming out and transition. It was inspirational.
I don't relish the thought of the first session with a therapist. I've already done the thought experiments, imagined detailed scenarios of that day. Seeing the therapist does not scare me. It is facing myself and committing to an action plan that is the source of terror.
Thank you.
Also, good luck and best wished with your upcoming FFS.
Steph
That's the hardest part of all, not feeling guilty for being yourself. I loved my first wife tremendously If anyone has seen Amanda Peet, they could be doppelgangers. My guilt finally caught up with me 37 years after the fact. It has really moved fast. Five months ago I knew zilch, today i'm on my 8th day of hormones. Along the way I was able to finally explain what happened between us. And all the empty boxes have now been checked and it feels marvelous. I'm just unsure going out in public as I am tall 6'3" but not as good looking as Sharapova.(6'2"). Just make sure to be honest with the Therapist. My experience was going to therapy to find answers for my crossdressing and the lifelong understanding that something was amiss. But on the 5 or so times I went to therapy before I would complain about something completely opposite of what I wanted to say. I attended a lot of group sessions for stress. The one thing I realized is you got to be true to yourself because if you don't love you. Nobody else will.
Steph,
I have a story to offer. Maybe it will make you feel like you are less alone in your situation. Before I realized I was trans, I would dress in safe places. I felt so closed in, one time, I climbed on the roof one night in frustration. I was up there in clothes that felt comfortable (Female of course). I had to go this extreme to be outside and free of the confines of some small room somewhere. I remember thinking, "Where the hell am I going with this?" It was not about the clothes, although I knew that was a part of it. I was so frustrated from years of fighting with myself and from having to hide. I knew I was not a cross dresser. I knew it was way more, but it was incomprehensible to me that I might be able to do anything about it. I imagine that this might be close to the feelings you have today.
Just for the record, my wife has always known. I didn't have to hide from her and yet that was not enough for me. I have only found peace within the last few months, really in the past few days. I think you will wrestle with this until you are at the tipping point. If you are anything like me, you will either distract yourself away from it and try to live with it, or you will find yourself doing things that you never imagined you could do. I wish I could fast forward it for you so you could skip some of the pain.
Moni
Dawn,
Thank you for your honest and generous thoughts. I appreciate them more than you could know.
It sounds like you are well on your way, beginning to enjoy the well deserved fruit of your labor toward self realization. 6'3"? I'm 6'2" tall with big feet, women's size 14 or 15--that sort of stuff should be the least of our worries. Congratulations on your successes, family and kids accepting you.
Moni,
Your insights are spot on. I frequently feel exactly as you did on the roof. I have similarly said to myself:
"Where am I going with this?"
"What is the endgame here?"
"This simply cannot continue like this!"
While sitting here today, briefly living without suppression of the feminine, I was almost literally sealed in a prison. Doors and windows locked, curtains drawn where possible, I creep around the house hoping no one will see, worrying about the unexpected return of my wife home leading to discovery. I was confined to a small bedroom study where I work and quick passage down a second floor hallway past a partially obstructed window to our bedroom and bath. A very small world, indeed. Too many windows in the kitchen with neighbors very close by for today's appearance. This is only possible with very understated clothing such as jeans, tee shirt or simple top, small earrings that would not be immediately identified as femme from the neighbors' passing glance. Certainly no way to live.
I wrote in an earlier post that historically dressing seemed to relieve the dysphoria to a great extent, albeit only short lived relief. Now, there is a sense of 'right' when I am dressed but no ongoing relief. I, like you, am not a CD. The dressing is simply part of being a woman. It is what women do--wear women's clothing. It is part of the realization of the feminine not a fetish. Now with dysphoria mounting, little relief in sight, the pressure is on.
I was just on the phone for nearly 2 hours with my adult son who is wrestling with his life plan and a number of large life decisions. He is bright, hard working and well educated with a career as an engineer. What is so problematic is a very nihilistic word view and dissatisfaction with his work that is keeping him from moving forward. Oddly, as we were having a very serious discussion of his situation he interrupted in a similarly very concerned way turning the tables asking me how my life has been lately! Does he sense that I am in distress? Is my facade of normalcy fading? I know he has no objective reason to be aware of the demons I grapple with over my gender dysphoria and the torture imposed by maintaining the veil of secrecy. I do not manifest androgyny or give any visible clues as far as I can tell.
This was very disturbing to me, more evidence that this secrecy needs to come to an end.
I've been where you are, but I moved through the secret dressing at home phase very quickly, and came out to my wife. The guilt from keeping the secret was just too much for me. My first wife had been a sneak and a cheater, and I resolved with this marriage there would be no secrets whatsoever.
So with my wife's consent and blessing, I became an at home crossdresser. That lasted for a year. Eventually the anxiety got to be too much for me, and I went for gender therapy and started hormones.
Hi Steph!!!
I hear in your words the sound of someone poised before the door... Your hand grasping the knob, ready to swing the door wide... Your eyes are closed as you consider the things you will leave behind as well as the wonders beyond.... I know you feel both the weight of the moment as well as the weightless feeling of the freedom you can feel in the air... I will offer no advice at this moment but to tell you to enjoy this moment,... these days... this point in time... I know you will not turn away from this door... You will go through it...you'll find it leads to amazing places filled with more doors and more possibilities... and a life, finally your own!!!
Onward We Go!!!
Ashley :)
Dear Steph,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I completely empathise with you and feel in a similar place myself. I came out to my wife about being a CDer a couple of years ago and, to cut a long story short, agreed to cease my dressing activities. Now I find that the urges are returning stronger than ever to the degree where I can now visualise myself taking things much further. These feelings have been fuelled in part by the realisation that the TG feelings I have may have been preordained in the womb through DES. Wherever I sit on this scale, I am once again faced with the dilemma of either stealth or having to come out again to my wife which will almost certainly end our marriage immediately.
I think this gets us to the root of the problem; the vast majority of our community are faced with what is effectively a lose-lose situation. We either suffer in silence, perhaps crossdressing in secret and researching transgender treatments on line when no-one is looking or we move forward with sometimes catastrophic consequences to our marriage, family life and career.
What I have realised is that there are many double-edged swords around - we dress in secret to satisfy our urges but, in doing so, realise that it feels so right and then yearn to spread our wings and go further. We accept that the reason for our unhappiness is TG related but then fear the consequences of proceeding further on the path. We want to be honest with our loved ones but know that their likely reaction will in all probability be hostile. And this site - full of outstanding advice and inspiration whilst, at the same time, looking at the stunning transformations achieved by some of the participants, you realise that you can't just push everything to one side and forget about it (as I tried to do).
In my case, like you I felt trapped so decided to go out with tights/hose and panties under my male clothes. If felt great and liberating but, of course, I now dream of going a little bit further. I then learned about the potential side effects of DES to sons and have a very strong suspicion that my mother took this in pregnancy. I've got the relief of knowing that my feelings and desires are not just some perverted fetish but the abject terror that, if they are as a result of hormone related brain development in the womb, what will this lead to (ultimately, with a wife & teenage kids to consider, this decision isn't just about me).
I do hope that you find your inner peace and are able to move forward in a way that fulfils you. In the meantime, please draw comfort from the fact that you are not alone and many others are facing similar challenges.
Amanda x
Quote from: tgirlamc on August 23, 2016, 10:42:41 PM
Hi Steph!!!
I hear in your words the sound of someone poised before the door... Your hand grasping the knob, ready to swing the door wide... Your eyes are closed as you consider the things you will leave behind as well as the wonders beyond.... I know you feel both the weight of the moment as well as the weightless feeling of the freedom you can feel in the air... I will offer no advice at this moment but to tell you to enjoy this moment,... these days... this point in time... I know you will not turn away from this door... You will go through it...you'll find it leads to amazing places filled with more doors and more possibilities... and a life, finally your own!!!
Onward We Go!!!
Ashley :)
As much as I like to remind people that their first time out in public is a moment that stays with you forever, Ashley's post brought back memories of the hours before I told my wife. It's like jumping off an incredibly high diving board. You may make a perfect swan dive. You may do a belly flop. Or you may miss the water and catastrophe will happen.
Either way, you can't stay up on that board forever.
I relate a lot to your original post.
I think your next two steps have to be seeing a therapist and starting to open up to your wife that something is wrong and you are going to get help. How much you disclose to your wife up front is your call. Having dealt with therapy and marriage for a while, the worst thing a couple can do is have one spouse do the blow-by-blow after every session. The spouse not in therapy has to respect the process, otherwise you wind up with some pretty unhealthy dynamics. Or at least my wife and I did.
Thank you all for your support, understanding and kind thoughts. They helped me navigate through a very bad day yesterday. Today is looking much brighter after the first decent night's sleep in about 3 weeks, thanks to you. I am indebted to you for you generosity.
One final irony: my wife is a psychotherapist.
She works mostly with kids and adolescents not adults. She is very good at what she does but this skill does not accompany her home at the end of the day, does not seem to extend to her personal life and family relationships. She will be entirely respectful of the therapeutic process, of this I am absolutely sure. On the other hand, I will need to carefully roll out disclosure to her perhaps engaging her in the therapy sessions. Disclosure will predictably be a catastrophe, one I hope I can risk manage for damage control with some help from a therapist. Prior experience over >35 years we've been together an observation of her historical responses to other family events assures this to be the case.
On with the new day.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 23, 2016, 10:06:58 PMhe interrupted in a similarly very concerned way turning the tables asking me how my life has been lately! Does he sense that I am in distress? Is my facade of normalcy fading? I know he has no objective reason to be aware of the demons I grapple with over my gender dysphoria and the torture imposed by maintaining the veil of secrecy. I do not manifest androgyny or give any visible clues as far as I can tell.
Your son might not know which demons you are wrestling with, but he probably recognizes demon-wrestling when he sees it. I bet this question did not just come out of the blue. He knows
something is up, even if he does not know what.
Kathy Lauren,
Yes, my son seems to know something is up.
To the point of several earlier posts in this thread, I think it is too easily concluded by some that full transition, defined however you are inclined to do so, is the obvious solution. The posts in this thread present a more moderate view recognizing the down sides, trials, tribulations, impact on family relationships and career. I hope to get a better perspective with therapy on the process and the enormity of the task, one that seems so overwhelming to me.
I have never run from a challenge in my work, career or life in general. I've faced personal life threatening illness, made several radical career changes, faced the death of a parent while while starting my freshman year in college--none of these approaches the magnitude of the task I see ahead of me now. Honestly, it is the first time in my life feel I may not be up to the task. I fear I may not have the strength of will to succeed through this difficult process of self realization. Time will tell.
I suspect my son would be the most open and accepting of all my extended family, my wife the least, my daughter somewhere in between. Most of my side of the family are either estranged on the basis of problems dating back to my parents marriage or deceased. I lost both of my parents at relatively young ages to catastrophic illness. This limits the number of players I must confront. My wife's extended family will be extremely difficult and judgemental based on their prior behaviors.
A little comic relief.
What shall I wear today?
Depends on what you want out of it.
Just remember to breathe. So, you might not want a corset. ;)
Hope it goes smoothly.
With warmth,
Joanna
Hey Steph,
It may become apparent to you during therapy that you need to transition...that there is no chance of actually living your life without doing it... If you find yourself there, please know that it can be done!!!... The mountain seems so large but the journey up it is possible step by step and day by day... There are sections that will be bounded up easily and sections that will be crawled up slowly and painfully, an inch at a time.
The people in your life now may not be the people you see at the top...many of the things you know in life and some of the people may fall along the way. Transition is filled with revelations... Revelations about the past...how much of your life has been colored by these feelings in ways you never realized...revelations about your connections to others, the path ahead and your place in the world...
I wish you all the best as you explore what lies ahead for you... Self exploration is the last frontier!!!....Onward we go!!!!
Take Care,
Ashley :)
Hi Steph,
I am amazed at all the wonderful responses to your thread. I hope it at least helps with the "I am the only one feeling" that a lot of folks can have before they talk to others.
I think you are right to feel that your path is anything that you decide is best for you. No one can predict it for you. I'm thinking that moving off the status quo and getting more information will help you figure out that path. I hope so.
It sounds like you have a wonderful son who cares about you. It can be hard to know if he sees something to worry about with you, or maybe he just cares. Take care!
Moni
No, all of you are amazing. You are the"amazing" in this thread.
In many ways I feel greater closeness to everyone who has responded generously with advice and understanding that exceeds that I have ever felt from friends I see face to face. This thing we share here is a beast that must be tamed but seem to bring us together in a common purpose and sense of caring. I hate to be repetitive but I really can't sufficiently express my thanks and appreciation.
I wish we could all meet somewhere for a day and enjoy one the pleasure of one another's company, share some actual hugs.
So, I'm going to do something. Not sure what will ultimately result but the starting point will be time spent with a therapist. Thank you again for getting me through a very bad day and to the point of commitment to move forward.
Hey Steph,
I don't know where you are location wise, but sometimes there are conferences that one can attend. I am in Maryland and have been to two in Pennsylvania. The first, I was in guy clothes, mustering up enough courage to wear a bra. The second one, I dressed fully as myself. It was very freeing in both circumstances. To be physically surrounded by people who "understood" was fantastic. I don't know if this is possible for you, but I thought I would make sure you are aware of it.
Take care!
Moni
Therapy starts Tuesday...
Congrats on the step forward Steph! ... Keep us posted!!!!
Onward we go!!!
Ashley :)
My wife, who is a psychotherapist, if not entirely clear on the problems and objectives is pleased to see me go for therapy. I have not disclosed to her the specifics of the GD problem, but she knows I am tortured over my various longstanding "demons" which include ones stemming from extended multigenerational family issues I've carried with me since early childhood and unresolved issues surrounding the premature death of both of my parents.
Next major objective once I have a better understood and a tangible plan to make life changes is to create a strategy to disclose the plan to my wife.
I'm optimistic as I have found a PhD with extensive transactional, Jungian and psychoanalytic background, something that resonates with me; a well as extensive interest and experience in transgender issues. I've got quite a bit more stuff to work through than just GD and transition questions. I think this is going to take substantial time.
It is so good to hear that you are taking positive steps. It stands to reason that the therapy could involve dealing with some painful issues, memories. I applaud you for being willing to look at yourself in this manner. It takes courage to face one's "demons." I wish you the best of luck. It seems like you have found friends here who will be interested in listening to whatever you feel comfortable sharing (if anything.)
Moni
Ashley & Moni,
I feel like the two of you are my moral support in this effort. Thanks a bunch.
Today's session was mostly fact-finding and background but I had a really good sense of connection with this therapist. I have frequent and absolutely horrific nightmares and difficulties with sleep which I suspect will be the first demon we'll work to tame. The session went in excess of an hour and I was somewhat spent emotionally afterwards but in a good way--relief. A glass of wine with dinner also helped, to be followed by an early bedtime tonight.
I have to complement my wife for being respectful of the process and calmly listening to what I had to offer about the first session without being intrusive. As I pointed out earlier, she's just happy I'm seeking help in an effort to come to terms with my demons.
A trip of a thousand miles begins with one step. First step taken.
I'm looking forward to next week's session. Step two.
One more thought while re-reading my last post. Just to be clear, my internal feminine gender identification is not one of the demons. I like my internal gender milieu but can no longer tolerate the suppression of emotions and identity.
The demons are the dysphoria, conflict over disclosure, sense of dishonesty I have not being forthright about it to wife and family, and so on.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 06, 2016, 09:03:28 PM
One more thought while re-reading my last post. Just to be clear, my internal feminine gender identification is not one of the demons. I like my internal gender milieu but can no longer tolerate the suppression of emotions and identity.
The demons are the dysphoria, conflict over disclosure, sense of dishonesty I have not being forthright about it to wife and family, and so on.
I get it. To quote you, "my internal female gender identification ... "
It makes me smile everyday the closer I embrace it. Everything I have done in that direction made me more happy. It does not matter if I have any feelings of dysphoira, etc., it's who I am, and I love who I am. :)
Quote from: tgirlamc on September 04, 2016, 10:20:30 PM
Congrats on the step forward Steph! ... Keep us posted!!!!
Onward we go!!!
Ashley :)
Just an FYI, wow, you (your profile pic) look beautiful!
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 06, 2016, 09:03:28 PM
One more thought while re-reading my last post. Just to be clear, my internal feminine gender identification is not one of the demons. I like my internal gender milieu but can no longer tolerate the suppression of emotions and identity.
The demons are the dysphoria, conflict over disclosure, sense of dishonesty I have not being forthright about it to wife and family, and so on.
Did you bring any of your gender issues up. That is pretty important to have in the mix. Even if that is not what you are focused on.
Congratulations and I hope it all goes well.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Sinclair on September 06, 2016, 09:28:34 PM
It makes me smile everyday the closer I embrace it. Everything I have done in that direction made me more happy. It does not matter if I have any feelings of dysphoira, etc., it's who I am, and I love who I am. :)
Hi Sinclair....With this perspective on your journey, you can't help but be successful in transition, life and love!
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Onward we go!
Ashley :)
Joanna,
This first visit was mostly family history and background information as initial discussion. The gender issues are at the top of my list but others are similarly pressing such as poor sleep, nightmares, other suppressed unresolved issues dating to childhood. The process will go on weekly, Tuesday afternoon.
I have a clear commitment to address these problems directly. I'm sure all are deeply interconnected and will not be able to be separated into a tidy list of tasks to be approached one by one. Depite how I am unhappy as a result of the gender issues, I sense a more practical and immediate need to improve my sleep quality and understand and perhaps control my problem with frequent and terrifying nightmares, some which have been recurrent and unchanged over the years dating from about age 4.
Great! I was concerned that you might try to take care of the dysphoria but not reveal why it exits.
It is a long road.
Good luck.
With warmth,
Joanna
Steph,
I can't exactly say why, but I have a very optimistic feeling about you. I just know you will find what you are looking for. Maybe it has a lot to do with the honesty and kindness you show in your posts. Good luck next week.
Moni
Moni,
Many thanks. I appreciate your encouragement.
Steph
This last week was very tough. I had back to back sessions with the therapist Tuesday and Wednesday, each slightly over an hour, all squeezed into a hectic work schedule. They were mostly cathartic disclosing all my gender issues and concerns. I was unable to sleep Tuesday night in advance of The Wednesday afternoon session. Following this session I was physically and emotionally exhausted. The next session is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon.
My therapist clearly was making an effort to determine if I was struggling with crossdressing as a paraphilic or fetish behavior vs. struggling with internal female gender identification. By the end of the second of these sessions, hearing myself openly explain how I feel and how dressing carries absolutely no erotic or sexually exciting qualities for me, I am more convinced than ever of my deeply rooted gender misalignment. It seems that is an important function of therapy, perhaps obvious, but one I had not recognized previously.
With compassionate encouragement from Moni, I reassembled my thoughts after this trying week. Luck would have it, my wife had plans that caused her to need to travel out of town Friday, arriving back home evening today (Sunday) giving me free run of the house for the entire weekend. I carefully thought through a plan to test out a microscopic version of "real life experience" spending the entire weekend in "Steph Mode." The purpose was to test a 2 day uninterrupted stretch of existence in female mode determining its effects on dysphoria and underlying mindset. Moreover, I wanted to see how the recovery, going out of Steph Mode back to my usual guy mode existence existence would feel and whether there would be an accentuated wave of dysphoria following the weekend.
As part of the experiment, I decided I needed a simple nightgown for sleep. Solving this problem required a trip to the local Macy's to buy the garment. I went to Macy's after work Thursday in my usual guy mode work clothes, went ti the womens department, right into the intimates section and browsed for somthing on the order of a half an hour. I had a sense of purpose and felt surprisingly little anxiety, not feeling conspicuous of out of place. There were several women shopping inn the department in very close proximity who paid no attention. I had a great time! In the end, I bought two, was treated without any apparent second thought by the sales person when I checked out. Off to a good start.
The weekend was terrific. In the interest of brevity, I wont describe it in detail. Basically, I came home, climbed into comfy clothes, had something to eat, did some work on the computer, watched a bit of TV, hung out with my cats. It all felt very normal. Into nightgown and off to sleep.
Saturday was to be a big day of catching up on work, but instead became a lazy day at home. I rarely if ever afford myself such personal time. Better yet, it was spent in Steph Mode. It was a wonderful dysphoria-free day.
In the evening, I made the minor error of watching Amazon series "Transparent." I had been wanting to watch but could not bring myself to do it having seen the trailers, it seemed to be too close to home and somewhat anxiety provoking. Well, Saturday night I watched the entire first season, fast forwarding through some of the cheesy side plots. It was indeed anxiety provoking. I found I could identify with the transgender main character and her situation more than I had expected. Overall, it was not a bad night. Into the nightgown and off to sleep.
Today started as a quiet Sunday morning. Breakfast sitting in my kitchen in the nightgown. I cleaned up the kitchen, did a few things around the house, fed the cats, answered some emails, and then faced the reality of Steph's weekend coming to an end. I packed up all my clothing and stuff, got into a plain old tee shirt and Levis and here I am.
So far, I'm still on the momentum of the weekends good feelings, without dysphoria. Nevertheless, I can see the wave forming in the distance. I am trying to put the whole thing into context. I see how this weekend fully confirmed to me the absence of need to specifically crossdress. As I wrote earlier, this was not about the clothing. I am amazed how dysphoria free I felt even through only 2 days in Steph Mode. The extent of dysphoria rebound will be the next important observation. The reality of all this is not surprising but unsettling to me. I cannot deny the strength of the evidence before me. I cannot deny the way I felt through the weekend. That said, I still am overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task unable to see myself strong enough to psychologically survive transition. Watching a season of Transparent seemed to reinforce these fears.
I was rereading several threads I've been following. I am debating the wisdom of a trial of low dose estrogen in my situation. I suspect I, like many others on this forum, would find relief in it. I just cannot see the larger plan at the moment. I suppose I could do stealth estrogen for a limited time as yet another, albeit larger experiment. While I could stop in principle sometime prior to "male fail" I doubt I would choose to do so if I felt better on it. I don't have a complete grasp on how transition would play out for me, work, family, and friends so am reluctant to commit until this path is clearer.
I just wanted to update the thread with the recent developments in my journey.
As everyone here knows, this is hard work.
Steph
It's funny you say that you don't think you can do it, because everyone else thinks you can. You are almost certainly strong enough, all you need to do is to set yourself small realistic goals. No one can tell you the pace at which you should proceed, but certainly don't let uncertainty about things out of your control make you stop completely. Just keep on keeping on and you should be there in not time. Remember, little strokes fell great oaks.
Not to worry, I will continue to mover toward a solution. I just cannot yet clearly see the path. With out doubt, there is palpable movement given only two weeks and three session on therapy.
Congratulations on your successful 'experiment'.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 18, 2016, 02:50:52 PMI don't have a complete grasp on how transition would play out for me, work, family, and friends so am reluctant to commit until this path is clearer.
I doubt if many of us do. I know I don't have a clear picture of the path ahead of me. I am just taking it one step at a time. "What do I need to do
today to keep the dysphoria at bay?"
Although I tell people that I am aiming for a full surgical transition, that is really pie in the sky. I know that I will make that decision some time in the future, and I don't know which way it will go. And that's okay, because it is not on todays action list.
Right now, I am dressing at home, with my wife's blessing, and seeing a therapist with the goal of getting started on HRT. The dressing helps a lot, but I can already tell it won't be enough in the long term, hence the therapy sessions. Going full time? Scary stuff! I'll decide that once I see how I feel on hormones. The surgery? Manana.
So I am not committed to a path. I am committed to becoming myself, whoever that is. I have an idea of what direction I am headed, but that is all. That way, I break my transition down from a huge, hairy, overwhelming deal to smaller, manageable steps.
Thanks, KathyLauren. I'm trying to do just that, solve small problems, take small steps in my quest for the larger goal.
Transition poses big challenges to all. Here are some of the things I've been considering:
I guess I am fortunate in a lot of ways. I am nearly hairless other than my head. I could not grow a respectable beard it my life depended on it. If I do not shave my face for about a week, I have messy looking scruff but a laughable mess when compared to a real beard. My underarms are actually hairless. I have very fine hair on my legs and arms. A few (meaning actually countable) hairs on my chest. Right now I count about 4. Pubic hair but limited to, well, my pubic area not abdomen and thighs. Score a big plus.
I am well over 6 feet tall and have large upper body and shoulders. In women's sizes, I'm about a 1-2X or an 18W-20 in tops, dresses, etc. On the bottom, not much in the way of hips, a bit wide in the waist slightly overweight but not obese. A size 16 in pants, jeans, skirts, etc. I could really use some more bulk in the hips and ass, less in the midsection. Score a big minus for the upper body size. Score a minus for small ass, unknown how this would respond to HRT.
I've had some breast tissue, just short of frank gynecomastia since male puberty. Score a plus.
I facially, I'm not especially cute, getting old, have a big nose, prominent brow ridge. I do have plenty of hair but it is very fine in texture. Plus/minus on this one.
I'm not at all vain but I don't think I'm going to make a vaguely passable woman at age ~60 with my basic body habitus and facial appearance. I suppose I need to be a bit more circumspect and consider that I have not considered the effects of HRT and the surgical options. with FFS and HRT-- unknown. I'm not feeling really good about having a lot of surgery.
Another consideration is that I do not have the option to become a self indulgent teenage girl for a period of a year or two while having a second round of puberty. Imagine going to an international research meeting loaded with colleagues and competitors to present a paper in the throws of early transition, appearing as a "dude in a dress" having emotional instability on HRT and breaking into tears at the the session. This is the sort of nightmarish stuff that goes through my mind.
Anyway, I'm not trying to look at all the downsides without considering the benefits. It is just part of the due diligence process for undertaking a major life change.
Steph
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 18, 2016, 05:23:28 PM
Imagine going to an international research meeting loaded with colleagues and competitors to present a paper in the throws of early transition, appearing as a "dude in a dress" having emotional instability on HRT and breaking into tears at the the session.
Actually, one of my role models was the trans astrophysicist who presented a paper at a national astronomy convention. I have no idea where she was in her transition. She looked good but would not have been able to go "stealth". No evidence of emotional instability, just an awesomely good lecture.
What was especially remarkable was that no one on the audience afterwards was talking about her. They were all in a buzz about the subject of the talk. Seeing and hearing that was what got me over my first hurdle to start investigating trans issues online.
KathyLauren,
That's certainly encouraging--testament to the power of a good lecture and the character of the lecturer!
There are other exceptional role models such as Lynn Conway. She prevailed on the basis of exceptional talent despite several major career setbacks arguably the consequence of her transition. The IEEE and others have bestowed various honors and awards upon her for her work over an incredibly productive career.
I look to these exceptional individuals for reassurance that it is possible to overcome this problem and remain productive.
To my point and yours, I just cannot appear as an awkward "dude in a dress" and have to get my emotional state under control before a presentation at the plenary session of the meeting. I think I will have no problem keeping the pink and purple unicorns out of the Powerpoint template.
Thanks so much for the reality check. I needed to bring my anxieties back down to a reasonable level of control, back from some remote supernova remnant to earth!
Steph
Tomorrow afternoon holds another round of therapy in store for me. The last two tumultuous sessions were largely cathartic, getting a lot out on the table for subsequent discussion. They were helpful to me as I've never opened up to another human being about any this before. It was exhausting but constructive, building the foundation for things to come. Tomorrow is going to be the beginning of the hard work of analyzing last week's "data." I have to admit, this scares me quite a bit and I do not scare easily. This is the first time I've really confronted all this, in excess of 50 years worth of life events and emotions in a prospective rigorous way. I don't think I have ever felt so completely vulnerable.
Toward the end of last week in an effort to diffuse some anxiety and dysphoria, guess what I did? Shop on line, of course! I bought a bunch of Steph clothes I don't really need. It's kind of sad yet darkly comical--many would argue stereotypical female behavior. I suppose to complete the image I should have binged on some chocolate as well. I'm starting to feel the rapidly advancing wave of dysphoria strike but the arrival today of some very nice undies and a couple cute tops didn't do much to blunt the symptoms. By tomorrow afternoon the dysphoria will be much more intense--I can feel it coming. I'm thinking this may be a positive outcome of the weekend's experiment, bringing a sobering sense of reality and purpose to the Tuesday therapy session.
Alright Steph, don't be so quick to discount the chocolate. I found it a wonder cure for all things trans. Well, maybe not all.
I am glad to see you two chatting. Your situation with SO's struck me as maybe similar, maybe? Oh don't mind me Ill just go back to eating my chocolate candy bar.
Moni
Munch munch!
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 19, 2016, 08:25:47 PMI suppose to complete the image I should have binged on some chocolate as well.
Hell, yeah! Chocolate is one of the four food groups, isn't it? >:-) When I came out to a friend, she said, "Now, you'll start bingeing on chocolate." "Too late," I told her, "I've been a chocoholic for years. ... Hmm. That should have been a sign!"
I hope your therapy session goes well. The increase in dysphoria is a rich source of material for the therapy sessions. You will do great!
My wife is gone for the entire weekend again as of midday today. I debated the idea of having another Steph weekend experiment with myself, having wished we had gotten to this topic at my last therapy session. I had some reluctance to do so since the last weekend Steph experiment was followed by a reactionary wave of substantial dysphoria the following midweek. In a sense I see it as a self imposed tease.
I was reading a piece on the Lynn Conway website quoting Renee Richards and several other prominent individuals who transitioned later in life with longstanding careers and in some cases were widely known for their work. They tended to strongly advise against transition, reserving it as a last option if all else fails to provide an acceptable level of control of dysphoria and workable life. Given, they went through this process in an earlier era so their experience is, to be fair, not directly extensible to what one would experience now. Still they all make a very cogent argument that the process is hard, with risk of loss of loved ones, friends, colleagues, career. This is the stuff that tortures me over the issue of coming out and pursuing transition.
I won't dwell on this point but but these personal histories and warnings hit me pretty hard. I am willing to take risks but usually after careful consideration of the risk/benefit calculus. In general, I tend to be pretty risk-averse.
So,the reason for the post...
I did something tonight that was out of usual character for me. Having decided to go through with another Steph weekend experiment, I came home changed in to Steph clothes at about 4:00 today. After finishing up some work left from earlier in the day, I remembered I needed to go to the local CVS to pick up a new pair of reading glasses and some other odds and ends, something I had intended but forgotten to do on my way home from work.
As I stood in my kitchen in a pair of black leggings, as fairly plain top and the usual underthings on I contemplated the situation. My first urge was to defer the trip, hitting the CVS on the way to work or on the way home tomorrow night. Instead, for some reason, I calmly concluded I would go as Steph tonight. About 7:30 it was raining pretty hard so I put on my guy-mode Columbia raincoat and zipped it up. It's fairly loose fitting and did not belie the presence of modest boobs and black leggings are pretty generic. Ostensibly, I could have been stopping on my way from the gym.
Why did I do this? Several reasons, I suppose. First, I did not want to change my clothes back into guy-mode. Second, for some unknown reason I cannot understand I had enough nerve, simultaneously realizing that there would be mostly myopic >80 year olds at the particular CVS I frequent at this hour. Third, I really did not look even particularly androgenous let alone feminine. Unless someone forced me to take off my raincoat, there was really nothing to draw attention. If I had taken off the coat, it would have been a different story--boobs and a clearly feminine Laura Ashley top. Given no one had any reason to strip the coat off me, I suppose I judged the threat to be low, even if I ran into someone I knew, so why not do it?
How did it feel? Not like much of anything. Not a thrill, not titillating, no sense of naughtiness, no sense of accomplishment. Not much of anything. It was just a mundane trip to the CVS. The clerk was more interested in trying to get me to sign up for a CVS card than observant of the extra bulk under my coat which did subtly suggest boobs.
So, again, why did I do this? I've been sitting here thinking about it. This is very much counter to my usual risk-averse judgement. I think I did it to test my own response. I was not really certain how I would react. It was not an attempt to make step towards coming out, rather more of a test to see how I would feel out in public at the CVS walking around in a bra, panties and visibly dressed as a woman even if relatively stealthy.
I have to admit, I'm not sure how to interpret my internal response to this event. I guess I expected it to leave me more excited after the fact, as if I had really achieved something or made an important step. I'm trying to understand if the business-as-usual unemotional response I feel is confirmatory of my TG nature, confirming the normality and unremarkable nature of going out in Steph mode. On the other hand, is the lack of a response indicative of just the opposite? I just don't know. It left me quite confused.
I have been post op for many years, so do you know what I feel like when I put my feminine clothes on in the morning? I feel nothing, no excitement, no depression, no wrongness. That is now everybody else feels and that's how we should feel and I think that could be what you were feeling in the store. We seek the transition to escape the sense of wrong in our life and noting else.
You should be careful when reading other people experiences because they are not you they may not feel the same urge to transition and the conditions of their life may not be the same. We have people on the site who resist transitioning because they value their life enough that they will endure the dysphoria. Others can transition and wish to be free of dysphoria. It's not something you really can do a logical risk/benefit calculation on as you have to go totally on what you feel. I spent years attempting to apply logic to this and in the end, I measured the feel of the pain I had before starting the transition against my time in RLE and the answer was clear. No going back.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 30, 2016, 12:05:30 AM
My wife is gone for the entire weekend again as of midday today. I debated the idea of having another Steph weekend experiment with myself, having wished we had gotten to this topic at my last therapy session. I had some reluctance to do so since the last weekend Steph experiment was followed by a reactionary wave of substantial dysphoria the following midweek. In a sense I see it as a self imposed tease.
I was reading a piece on the Lynn Conway website quoting Renee Richards and several other prominent individuals who transitioned later in life with longstanding careers and in some cases were widely known for their work. They tended to strongly advise against transition, reserving it as a last option if all else fails to provide an acceptable level of control of dysphoria and workable life. Given, they went through this process in an earlier era so their experience is, to be fair, not directly extensible to what one would experience now. Still they all make a very cogent argument that the process is hard, with risk of loss of loved ones, friends, colleagues, career. This is the stuff that tortures me over the issue of coming out and pursuing transition.
...
I have to admit, I'm not sure how to interpret my internal response to this event. I guess I expected it to leave me more excited after the fact, as if I had really achieved something or made an important step. I'm trying to understand if the business-as-usual unemotional response I feel is confirmatory of my TG nature, confirming the normality and unremarkable nature of going out in Steph mode. On the other hand, is the lack of a response indicative of just the opposite? I just don't know. It left me quite confused.
Hi Steph,
I would like to share some thoughts. I fully transitioned around the same time as Richards did. Both she and Conway are around 80 years old and transitioned when they were ten to 15 years older than me, meaning I was in my mid to late 20s during the throes of transition and that colors my view. I am not chums with Conway although we've had dinner together, so I have some personal insight here, take it for what you will.
Willingly or unwillingly both Conway and Richards are public figures who were sensationalized in the news after they transitioned. Those sorts of outings were fair game 40 years ago. Today transitioning is less sensational, although far too much discrimination lingers on. The press and the court of public opinion unraveled their private lives and did a lot of trashing of them personally. Any semblance of an orderly transition was ripped apart.
They might say transition is a last resort. Coming out of that milieu, I find myself agreeing. I agree that transition is always a
last resort because nothing can turn a life upside down any faster. If I could have taken a pill to make it go away and not be trans, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. Life would have been so much simpler. Less complicated. For those of us who had SRS 40 to 50 years ago, over time we forget the level of dysphoria and pain.
I remember back in college the first time I went out in public. I was with a cis female friend and she helped me get ready and I was so very scared. She insisted we take a leisurely stroll into Greek Row on a hopping weekend night when parties were in full swing and the streets were filled with students. Some guys tried to hit on us, but I watched in rapt fascination as my friend brushed them aside without saying much if anything. Girls have to go through this!? No way! Nope. Nothing exactly fun about it or titillating. This was the real deal.
Full disclosure. I was taking gray-market estrogen, but I did not have the courage to speak. My voice was my Achilles heel. It would be quite a bit later when I went en fem and interviewed for a job in homophobic corporate America. This metamorphosis did not happen overnight nor was it easy. But I felt compelled to do it.
I still have a letter I wrote to myself during the flight to Denver and then the bus ride to Trinidad, Colorado. To sum up it said, "You are out of options." I had to drink from the bitter cup.
Some years later it was great to see other people being sent off by friends and even having a party thrown for them before going off the get SRS--the euphoric look in their eyes.
For me it was an ordeal. "God, why have You done this to me!" Why has my life been wrecked so completely? My family hates me and thinks I am bonkers. My so-called friends have shunned me quite literally. I have had to move clear across the country to stop the roomers from a leaky ship of gossip mongers who believed my story was far too delicious a secret to not share it because some of the fame would rub off on them. I didn't want that ignominious fame, so they picked it up for themselves as the town criers. Plus, even though one of the owners of the company where I worked was "cool" with my transitioned, he did not think talk to his business partners ("They'll be fine with it," liberal-minded him said) but I was nevertheless fired three days into on-the-job transition for reasons having nothing to do with performance.
And after a while it all died down. I moved on--like immigrating to a new (sometime highly xenophobic) country with a different culture that I had to learn on the sly. Like, I mean, I had to learn how to
dress myself, for pity sakes. How to date. How to have sex. How to be a wife. How to make it on 59-cents when I used to make a dollar for the same work.
Right, a last resort, but sometimes it's the only resort, and you know what? For all that? Now that it's 40 years behind me? I have never been so happy in all my life.
Steph, I would guess that you felt perfectly normal because what you were doing was something perfectly normal. You felt like a normal woman going out to the store.
That you didn't feel naughty or titillated tells you that you are not dressing up to be naughty or for titillation. That is useful information to share with your therapist.
It sounds to me like it is all good.
Thanks for the replies and advice.
I hope I was clear that I had perspective on the fact that reading the accounts of those who had undertaken the task of transition years ago and in a fairly public way was not representative of today's experience for most. Still, it is clear that this is no small task and not without its dangers and potential for catastrophe. I only cited this recent reading to make the point that it reiterated the magnitude of the task and the potential for hazard, something not to be entered into without considering the situation carefully and examining all options.
Having slept on it, allowed my subconscious to work on this experience overnight, I'm still not entirely sure I have it figured out. For me, the clothing is not my "issue," that is, I'm not a true cossdresser in the typical sense of term. I gain no thrill or titillation from clothing; no more than anyone of any gender would get feeling pleased when I think I look good in something. So, I did not expect any excitement from the act of going out dressed per se.
I guess my lack of response led me to the conclusion that Dena made. Get up in the morning, get dressed, go about your day--not a big event in one's life. I think this test I conducted, proves the point to me that it is not about the clothes, again, something I had figured out long ago. The fact that it provoked so little reaction within me I am concluding is evidence for the fact that it does not provoke a sense of internal discord with little voice inside whispering "you should not be doing this." I guess I am inclined to judge this another check in the "TG, identifies as woman, transition" column.
On reflection, I still would have expected more of a sense that I had accomplished something, a sense of a small but still important event having occurred. The same little voice yelling "Do you realized what just happened? You got up the nerve and went out dressed as a woman, for God's sake!"
Quote from: Dena on September 30, 2016, 01:22:19 AM
I have been post op for many years, so do you know what I feel like when I put my feminine clothes on in the morning? I feel nothing, no excitement, no depression, no wrongness. That is now everybody else feels and that's how we should feel and I think that could be what you were feeling in the store. We seek the transition to escape the sense of wrong in our life and noting else.
You should be careful when reading other people experiences because they are not you they may not feel the same urge to transition and the conditions of their life may not be the same. We have people on the site who resist transitioning because they value their life enough that they will endure the dysphoria. Others can transition and wish to be free of dysphoria. It's not something you really can do a logical risk/benefit calculation on as you have to go totally on what you feel. I spent years attempting to apply logic to this and in the end, I measured the feel of the pain I had before starting the transition against my time in RLE and the answer was clear. No going back.
It is my view that perhaps too much emphasis is placed on not being happy when looking good. In my opinion the reasons for this are complex and have as much to do with the care givers as they do with what a person actually feels.
True story: In the early 1970s a renown gender clinic was seeing some of the first patients who went on to get SRS outside of hospital-based gender programs. At one point the director came to a shocking realization--everyone's story was identical. [insert story. I won't give the symptoms.] In short, people were gaming the system. They were ready to cheat on the exam. No more SRS letters! Thank God for one therapist who spoke up. "Wait a minute. These people want this pretty badly and they seem willing to do just about anything to get SRS letters. Maybe if we stopped demanding they tell a certain story, maybe we'll get the
real story." True. If the rule had been only lawyers could get SRS, I would have tried to get admitted to the bar.
The dubious theory of ->-bleeped-<- has infected the discourse. Are there such people? I guess. Some are self-reported, so who can argue, but to make a sweeping generalization that people feel good about being women are suspect is to miss the fact that for the most part, half the population enjoys being women. They are called ggs. They like to dress like women. Talk like women. Have sexual attraction (straight, gay, or bi) like women. They like being attractive like women. They like being gendered properly like most women. To try and pathologize it is what at bottom is the problem. "Why would a
man want to be a
woman?" The author of the theory, likely, cannot imagine wanting to be a woman. His misogyny, likely, is so great that anyone would have to be sick to want to do it, let alone like it, to heck with half the human race that does precisely that--more or less likes it.
The author of the ->-bleeped-<- theory likely confuses relief and joy with finally being "right" with "wrong" sexual expression. As I wrote elsewhere, I know ggs who will get dressed up and look so hot that they will get off on it to the point where they pleasure themselves. These are not isolated incidents, either. Women tend to like to look attractive, hot, and sexy. They are classic autogynephiles. Anything that makes them not those things makes them unhappy. It's only the idea in the physician's mind that makes it bad, wrong, or sick.
Again, are there actual autogynephiles of the variety contemplated by the physicians who put forward that theory. As I said before, there seem to be some self-reported cases, but it is a huge step to then generalize the observation to explain away the world.
And of course everyone was quick to inform me, like I was someone out on the ledge of a skyscraper about to leap off, "now don't be a stereotype," likely meaning don't wear an evening gown to Whole Foods on Saturday morning. But for those who have experience with sub-teen girls, we have all seen the over-the-top makeup and bad fashion choices. "Don't be a stereotype" is actually "don't go through a female adolescence" spelled backwards. Learning how to be a sub-teen, teen, and young adult has to be compressed into a very short time. Some people simply skip it, and that's okay, at least in my book. But another aspect of that is that the same people who say "don't be a stereotype" are also saying, "Don't look to hot or I'll feel attraction and that will make me question
my sexuality." Heaven forbid! "I'll pathologize that straightaway and shield myself by using the ruse that the person is a fetishist because the person now feels at easy with themselves. At peace with themselves. How sick is that!?"
There's an old story about a guy who goes to see a psychiatrist who shows the man some inkblots. The guy says the first picture is a naked man. The second picture he says is a naked woman. The third picture is a man and woman doing
it. The psychiatrist says to the guy, "I think you have sex on the brain."
"Me!? You're the one showing dirty pictures!"
Trans people are the inkblot test of the cis world. They look at us and then try to explain themselves. Usually they don't do a very good job in describing trans people, but their theories are very revealing . . . about
them.
Quote from: Virginia Hall on September 30, 2016, 07:58:45 AM
And of course everyone was quick to inform me, like I was someone out on the ledge of a skyscraper about to leap off, "now don't be a stereotype," likely meaning don't wear an evening gown to Whole Foods on Saturday morning. But for those who have experience with sub-teen girls, we have all seen the over-the-top makeup and bad fashion choices. "Don't be a stereotype" is actually "don't go through a female adolescence" spelled backwards.
This this this! When you said "evening gown to Whole Foods" I thought "but I have friends who would have and did do things like that when they were young" and then you followed with "sub teen girls" --yes! Although some of them were in their early 20s as well. Overdressing to the occasion = having a personality.
Not to validate the folks that use the ->-bleeped-<- meme to hurt other people; but here's how I react to the thought that someone might ascribe such an affliction to me.
->-bleeped-<-? that's horrible! fortunately, there's an awesome, effective, and pleasant cure. An anti-androgen. Now, since we think this is a horrible thing that makes horrible people, I think insurance should cover a continuous supply of a suitable GnRH injection; so I'll be adding about $8,000 /yr to your insurance expense kitty. I'll also need a little added E to protect against Osteo; unless you are looking forwards to hundreds of thousands of dollars in added expense as someone that plays as rough as I do proceeds to repeatedly break really expensive bones.
no?
Ok, shut up and get out of my way.
Frankly, do NOT care how I am categorized, as long as no one stands between me and an AA. Because otherwise, I might get angry, on T, and well, you won't like me when I'm angry on T... lol.
Virginia,
Thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful remarks.
I found your comments about adolescence of particular interest. I've given this question much consideration with regard to my own situation. The fact that I am rapidly approaching age 60 brings me a slightly a different perspective than someone much younger. I suspect I could transition without recapitulating many of the teenage female adolescent fashion, style and behavioral mishaps. I do accept the fact that there will be a steep learning curve but taken on with the clarity of mind (I hope) of an older adult with considerable life experience and better judgement than the typical adolescent.
Better, I don't have any urge to look hot or sexy. I am not really that worried about whether I would turn heads because of attractiveness although I'd want to look well groomed and good enough to avoid scaring little children and make my day to day interactions and travels through the world uneventful. As I said to others and in other posts, I'd be OK with having the appearance of a rather large but otherwise unremarkable post menopausal middle aged woman. I am way past any need to be hot in the context off any gender. I am absolutely sure you will never find me at Home Depot in the garden section on Saturday morning wearing an evening gown and heels. I do recognize the wisdom in your observation that you had a great deal of work to do the properly learn to dress yourself and properly learn socialization that natal women learn over years of chlldhood and adolescence adn young adulthood. I acknowledge the magnitude of the effort that must be expended learning the roles of an adult woman as friend, lover, wife, matriarch.
My only major personal concern about a second puberty would be having unfamiliar hormonally induced emotional instability that would interfere with my day to day function, something I addressed several post earlier in this thread. Also, aside from the usual social and family concerns, it will be extremely difficult to play out the transition process in my work environment.
As for autogynophilia, I am not in a position to debate the topic or whether the Blanchard camp is entirely right or wrong. From my reading, I would tend to conclude the concept is faulty and should not be generalized to the description of many MtF TG individuals. I suspect there are some that are probably well described by it. To Becky.rw's point, the nosology is less important than finding a correct and therefore useful treatment for each individual, less important what name is given to the condition. I found the book by Anne Vitale, The Gendered Self to be very helpful. In particular, she describes the group of MtF individuals that characterize my experience with uncanny accuracy, her "group 3" persons are socialized and function well as men, suppressing the dominant feminine until the suppressive mechanisms fail sometime typically going into middle age. I think her description is more useful and probably closer to reality of the situation for many of us that the Blanchard "late onset" concept.
Anyway, to my original point, I did learn something important about myself with this last experiment, aided substantially by this discussion. I will have quite a bit to discuss in therapy next week.
Steph
Lol. read that book myself; its pretty terrifying how accurate that "group 3" description is. given the prognosis should one choose to continue denial and not treat the problem.
Really cracked me up, the phrase, "cloistered lives"; describes me to a T, I may be a "high performance" little worker/professional; but I am/was completely dependent on the people around me structuring my life and keeping me safe from social interactions. lol. Might as well have lived as a monk in a box..
Remember what the bard wrote in Romeo an Juliet:
Juliet:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
Romeo:
I take thee at thy word:
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Romeo.
When taken more in the abstract, there are may parallels to the plight we face.
[Hint: substitute "woman" for "Montague."]
Steph
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 30, 2016, 01:02:33 PM
Remember what the bard wrote in Romeo an Juliet:
Juliet:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
Romeo:
I take thee at thy word:
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Romeo.
When taken more in the abstract, there are may parallels to the plight we face.
[Hint: substitute "woman" for "Montague."]
Steph
About 15 years ago on another board someone, I have forgotten who, came up with it, but there was an age adjustment formula for transitioning people. You take your age and add to it the years full-time in role and then divide by two and that gives the social adjusted age. At 60, a person just starting out is 30, so a bit more measured in dating, etc. I am 55 by that measure. Crazy as it sounds, that's about what it feels like, 55, when I think about myself emotionally and socially.
I like your math skills Virginia!!!... I am 29 now!!! Actually I always tell people I feel like I did at 30 so I think you might be on to something!!!!
Steph...I was recently exposed to Anne Vitale's work on another forum ... I am a group 3 girl too!!! ... It was great to see in black and white, all the conclusions about things I had come to myself... I highly recommend people give this a read...
http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm
Onward we go!!!!
Ashley :)
The link you cite is to the introduction to the Vitale book, essentially a limited overview of the work. From her website there is a link to the complete book, inexpensively available as a PDF download. I highly recommend investing a few dollars and the time to read it. It is fairly short and a quick and well written read. Well worth the effort.
Steph