After i come out to my family and explained to them my transgender condition so many things changed ..i feel like everybody start to take me seriously (not like before when they thought i'm a tomboy ) they watching everything i'm doing and how i act ..before i come out i was a painter i had a youtube chanel i was making drawing tutorials i was obsessed with art and i never saw it as a feminine thing ...anyway before a week my aunt son visited us we are almost in the same age and he already knows i'm trans and he always treated me as his bro he told me ...you need to stop the art thing and to man up and its a feminine and gay thing and only gays do art or dance ( i dont have nothing against gay people ofc) the subject get bigger and the whole family they were like yea he is right men don't do this things ! such drawing or dancing or singing ...man do sports ( i do mma and football) and they say no one will take a man that draw pokemons seriously and that imagine be A 30 years old and still drawing and thats a kids and femenine thing...also my gf when she knew i'm a painter she said are you serious ? and she didnt believed it she said i dont look like someone that care about art ...i dont know why people always when they hear of a painter then they imagine a gay man or a feminine one why cant a man that do sport or a boxer be a painter too? and they see it as a feminine thing!! ...does really drawing a feminine thing or will make me less of a man ?!! or as so many girls believe (it's not attractive for a man)
No, drawing does not make you less of a man. It sounds like your family, and gf apparently, are stuck believing male stereotypes. Men come in all different kinds of packages, and many straight cis males like drawing, dancing, singing, etc. I am sure you could find some as examples too, if you wanted to present them with evidence. It is not a feminine thing to want to draw. Men and women drawn. Straight men draw.
It appears they may not have heard of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci or any of the other great male artist in history. Even the earliest caveman was painting images from the latest hunt on the wall. Art is something preformed by and enjoyed by both genders and there is nothing that indicates one gender has a monopoly on it.
thank you for the replies and trust me it's not only my family i mean it's not just cause i live in algeria and people here are not like people in europe or usa but its everywhere i had so many subscribers on my youtube chanel and i just noticed most of them are femals, i can remember a time i drew a rose and a guy comment in the vid with '' well that's gay'' its like cause i'm a guy i suppose to draw cars or women ...this (feminine/manly) things everywhere...
Throughout most of history men dominated the arts. Most of the famous historical painters are men, but then I wouldn't expect the people telling you the thing they are have much knowledge of art history. Art is as much a man thing as a woman thing. If not more so, taking into account history.
If you want to paint, paint. It's pretty pointless to forgo the things you love doing just because someone somewhere said it's "gay" or decided that pastimes need to be regimented according to age and gender.
As a professional artist of 10 yrs myself if someone told me men couldn't be artists I'd crack up laughing. I know so many male artists, all of them doing quite well in the business.
As for the subject of what you paint - well yes, people are going to judge you on that. If you like painting men, they're probably going to think you're gay. If you like painting flowers or horses game characters or whatever else you might come across the same reaction - I've seen it online plenty when people assume the gender of the artist based on the subjects of the art, and act surprised if they find out a woman likes drawing cars or a man likes drawing flowers. As an artist though, you need to develop a thick skin and just do what you want, because making something and putting it out there is always going to incur some sort of judgement or dislike from someone.
In a sense they are right in that you might be criticized for drawing, or the subject of your drawing, but so what? You like doing it, so do it. Someone out there has a job professionally drawing pokemon for cards and box art and games - would they think that was gay/feminine/childish too, making art for a multi-million dollar industry? Heh. People are silly.
If they read comics, watch anime, watch cartoons or anything really they are 9 out of 10 watching the work of a man
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Guess what, until very recently, not only was the world of comics dominated by male creators, there were very few women who could get work drawing comics at all. (I can now name one, the incredible Fiona Staples.) Iconic creators like Jack Kirby, Wil Eisner, Ditko, Frank Miller, and George Perez were all guys.
Japan has been a little more equal in terms of having female mangaka (such as Rumiko Takahashi and Naoko Takeuchi) but it has still been very difficult for women creatives in Japan, leading to the creation of all-female studios to get around the glass ceiling.
Animation is no different. Walt Disney refused to let women work in his animation studio except doing color effects on cells, segregated in their own room away from the men, their work unacknowledged for years.
Don't let your family talk you out of something you love. They are being very silly.
In my experience, when loved ones are feeling some degree of denial; they will find things that support it. I often hear that many of my interests(also including art) are too manly for me to really be a girl.
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No offense but your family is incredibly backwards...if you want to make stupid stereotypes its women who cant do art and draw and paint because males have dominated the industry for years historically/iconically speaking
If you really need to convince them show them pictures Michaelangelo, Leonardo, Salvador Dali, Satoshi Tajiri (the CREATOR of pokemon), Bob Ross
...my best friend is one of the most cis straight males and he loves drawing roses and flowers, especially to give to women.
Im glad you came out to the family and they accepted you though, hopefully they'll come around on the art thing because thats just incredibly silly and confusing for them to even remotely give art a gender, much less anything else
I've never thought of art as a feminine thing. I draw a lot, I doodle all over my maths jotters, so does one of my cis male friends. Hell, I drew my avatar! Came up with that species myself too. And I don't know about your family but most of the bands I listen to have male singers... And some of the toughest-looking guys from my favourite bands are the ones who do art and stuff q: Draw whatever the hell you want! I can't draw cars, and I can't draw women. Well, I can't draw people in general but whatever. I just draw cartoon dragons and aliens and stuff.
It's only a sign of cultured and a highly evolved male. Tell them that.
Tell her about Van Gogh. He cut off his own ear. (don´t do that).
He wasn´t in the least feminine, and with him thousands of famous artists. The ability to appreciate art is absolutely not related to gender.
November vox ... LOL i know van goh and don't worry bro i won't cut my ear lol
i talked to a friend about it i said there are so many male straight artists and she said it don't make sense and that she dont see any reason for a man to do art she said if it's about money he could play sport or just have a normal job but going for art or do sewing or dance it make him look childish and less of a man...she said if we keep say its ok for everything to men to do ..such like its ok for a man to wear pink or its ok to do art or to cry or to act sensitive then what's the different between him and a women ! she said what makes a man a real man is take care about his family and be strong/rough and protect them and be an example for his kids so they feel safe ! she said who want a man that draw or cook or a sensitive man !! and that women say things that they dont mean cause in the end all women want is a rough strong man even if women nag all day about how this men act in the end they still go for the bad rough guy not for the sensitive or the artist one....
yea people here are still too old fashioned maybe for u guys its just a normal or silly subject but here people still respect the old stereotypes ...
Quote from: pheonix on September 28, 2016, 04:57:29 AM
November vox ... LOL i know van goh and don't worry bro i won't cut my ear lol
i talked to a friend about it i said there are so many male straight artists and she said it don't make sense and that she dont see any reason for a man to do art she said if it's about money he could play sport or just have a normal job but going for art or do sewing or dance it make him look childish and less of a man...she said if we keep say its ok for everything to men to do ..such like its ok for a man to wear pink or its ok to do art or to cry or to act sensitive then what's the different between him and a women ! she said what makes a man a real man is take care about his family and be strong/rough and protect them and be an example for his kids so they feel safe ! she said who want a man that draw or cook or a sensitive man !! and that women say things that they dont mean cause in the end all women want is a rough strong man even if women nag all day about how this men act in the end they still go for the bad rough guy not for the sensitive or the artist one....
yea people here are still too old fashioned maybe for u guys its just a normal or silly subject but here people still respect the old stereotypes ...
Well yes, there is some truth to this - women do often want their man to be stronger than they are and to protect them and so on. But just because a man might be a designer or an artist doesn't mean he can't do those things. That said, the idea that "artistic" men are more sensitive and therefore less able or willing to run around playing sports and lifting weights and punching people can sometimes be the case. I myself though - I'm an artist and I like lifting, and being active, and martial arts, and if someone breaks into my house you bet I'll be right there with a bat to get rid of them, as I have done several times in the past. It's just a stereotype that not every man falls into, by any means. And not every woman either - or no male artist in history would have ever gotten laid, or married. Of course there were women out there who love male artists. All the male artists I know personally do actually have long-term girlfriends, except one who isn't interested in women. This is just a very myopic view of male-female relations in this day and age.
As for the "a
real man is _______ (whatever makes him useful to women and children, or to society)" spiel: well, this is society's way of making men obey and make themselves useful - through guilt. "You're not a real man unless you can get a woman," meaning unless you conform to what that particular society says makes a "decent man" you're not even allowed to think of yourself as one. And if you don't conform, or show interest in conforming you'll be labelled as a loser, or gay. And a "real man" puts women and children before himself, always, yes? Otherwise he doesn't get to be thought of as a man.
You can bypass this by not caring what they think of you or whether or not society decides to call you a real man. It's the same for women - "a real woman is one who wants to have children", right? No, not really. These days women can still be women and choose not to have a bunch of kids. The same should be said of men - they can choose their profession and whether or not they want to adopt that social role without their gender status being in jeopardy. In the past the old stereotypes were even stronger but there were still men who did what they pleased as their professions because they enjoyed it. Many of the greatest male scientists and inventors in the world became so in the face of people - their families, friends, teachers, mentors - telling them to "go get a
real job" (or to just give up) and the world is much better off now because they ignored those people.
To cut to the chase though - do you enjoy art as a hobby, or do you want to do it as a profession? Because if it's just a hobby, you should still be able to do it as a pastime in private without people bothering you as much as if you were trying to do it for a living. If it's a job, people often judge you on the status (in their mind) of your job. Whenever someone asks me what I do for a living in passing, they are usually surprised that I'm a full time artist at all. Here in the UK I think people tend to view art as an middle/upper-class pastime rather than a "real" profession, so I can see the cogs turning behind their expression trying to figure out how to feel about it, and then they try to get a more accurate picture of the sort of art I do to judge it. Honestly I don't give a crap what they think. It's my job and it pays the bills. And it's far more enjoyable than some of the other jobs I've had to do in the past. I don't care if they assume things about my financial background or sexuality or anything. I can walk off afterward happy in the knowledge I enjoy my job and it's what I want to do. I probably enjoy mine a lot more than they enjoy theirs.
If you want to do it as a job, well it's the internet age now, anything's possible. You can use pseudonyms and not even reveal your gender if you don't want people to judge you based on your work.
You said they started to take you more seriously since you came out as a man. Well, this is the double-edged sword for men. They do indeed get taken more seriously in a sense than women are - but the price to be paid for that is that people will judge you more harshly and expect you to shoulder more responsibilities and reliably. Your family and friends have demonstrated this perfectly. Now they are telling you that as a man you're going to need to look and act in a way that can be respected, and they don't see art as a particularly respectful activity. They see it as a play-thing for women and children. So life for men can be quite stressful and difficult in ways that women aren't always aware of, because women are not really told they can't express their feelings, either in words or through stuff like art. Women may be told they can't be taken seriously in men's sports and games, but when it comes to men taking part in "women's" activities or expressing their feelings, they get even worse treatment because they are expected to be far more "serious" about their status. Of course, just doing whatever you like in the face of criticism is also considered a "province" of men, so if I were you I'd just continue enjoying art if you want to anyway.
Quote from: pheonix on September 28, 2016, 04:57:29 AM
November vox ... LOL i know van goh and don't worry bro i won't cut my ear lol
i talked to a friend about it i said there are so many male straight artists and she said it don't make sense and that she dont see any reason for a man to do art she said if it's about money he could play sport or just have a normal job but going for art or do sewing or dance it make him look childish and less of a man...she said if we keep say its ok for everything to men to do ..such like its ok for a man to wear pink or its ok to do art or to cry or to act sensitive then what's the different between him and a women ! she said what makes a man a real man is take care about his family and be strong/rough and protect them and be an example for his kids so they feel safe ! she said who want a man that draw or cook or a sensitive man !! and that women say things that they dont mean cause in the end all women want is a rough strong man even if women nag all day about how this men act in the end they still go for the bad rough guy not for the sensitive or the artist one....
yea people here are still too old fashioned maybe for u guys its just a normal or silly subject but here people still respect the old stereotypes ...
Yeah in my culture (Greek) its very similar for sure. Art and those types of hobbies aren't really seen as a "masculine" thing and because Greek culture can be pretty homophobic and sexist there's a lot of strong policing of masculinity. So a lot of Greek men act very hyper masculine by default and expect the same from each other. For example even now my uncle is always complaining about my young nephew who's only 8 years old, getting pissed off if he plays with any of his sisters' toys and going on about how my nephew's voice annoys him because it's "too high, he needs to have a lower voice" (the kid is only 8 ffs). Its ridiculous but that's the cultural mentality. Funny enough while drawing is seen as feminine Greek culture is very musical so its definitely appropriate for men to dance or sing (then again in traditional Greek dance there's also a very strong line of "how men dance and how women dance," dancing is definitely very gendered).
I think the best thing you could do is try to find male friends who are also into art. You can't be the only guy in Algeria who likes art :P Maybe your family will lay off a bit if they see you hanging out with other guys who are into art, and even if they don't at least you'll have the support of friends instead of being alone in it.
Another thing that might help, if your cousin or whoever says anything...if they like video games ask them who they think most video game graphic artists are :P
In greece you are surround by art produced by men thousands of year ago and much was exported to Rome. Now men are not permitted to be artistic? Insane. They need to open their eyes and look at what people travel half way around the world to see.
Funny. As yet another professional artist and man I can also emphasis how staggeringly male dominated the arts are. Film, animation, games, comics, fine art, you name it. It is incredibly competitive and not for the faint of heart if you are considering it as a career. If you are only considering it as a hobby, it really is not strictly girly by any means either.
If anyone bothers you about it, you can learn to ignore them, or freshen up on your art history and correct them. Better yet whip out a book on the subject, pass it to them, and tell them to educate themselves before they offer their opinion again.
Honestly I have never had a problem finding a girlfriend as an artist. Even if potential partners find it an effeminate hobby, so what? Not all men are super masculine. Different strokes for different folks. Wouldn't you rather attract a partner and friends who love what you do, and that are supportive of your interests? Rather than trying to be something you are not. Even if that was the more difficult path, wouldn't you be happier in the end?
Otherwise you would be closeting yourself all over again. You would be just as unhappy as if you were forced to live as a girl.
You do you. Don't let others dictate who you are.
Quote from: pheonix on September 28, 2016, 04:57:29 AM
November vox ... LOL i know van goh and don't worry bro i won't cut my ear lol
i talked to a friend about it i said there are so many male straight artists and she said it don't make sense and that she dont see any reason for a man to do art she said if it's about money he could play sport or just have a normal job but going for art or do sewing or dance it make him look childish and less of a man...she said if we keep say its ok for everything to men to do ..such like its ok for a man to wear pink or its ok to do art or to cry or to act sensitive then what's the different between him and a women ! she said what makes a man a real man is take care about his family and be strong/rough and protect them and be an example for his kids so they feel safe ! she said who want a man that draw or cook or a sensitive man !! and that women say things that they dont mean cause in the end all women want is a rough strong man even if women nag all day about how this men act in the end they still go for the bad rough guy not for the sensitive or the artist one....
yea people here are still too old fashioned maybe for u guys its just a normal or silly subject but here people still respect the old stereotypes ...
You know, Liam Neeson got famous playing a SNAG = Sensitive New Age Guy. He's a new kind of man, long scrawly hair, one dangling earring, probably an artist ... an urban artist ... and he makes love to women in his industrial studio apartment which is also his art studio ... oo la la. I know, it was the 80s/early 90s.
Seriously, your loved ones are projecting their own insecurities on you. George W. Bush started painting as a hobby and nobody considers him effeminate. Google Pablo Picasso while you're at it. Or how about Diego Rivera or Jackson Pollack? Nobody called them girly men.
I saw a documentary on Frank Frazetta. He was an artist from a young age. He was also a street kid and an athlete and apparently helped his friend Ralph Bakshi with his rotoscoping work to make the movements of the actors more realistic using his athletic background. He was a tough, masculine guy--most famous for painting cheesecake for fantasy novel covers in the 70s.