Hi Everyone,
I rarely start a new topic, but I wanted to share my experience with FFS and recovery, as mine has been much different from many others that have been chronicled on this site. I had FFS on September 15th with Dr. Zukowski. The treatment plan was very aggressive. I had Type I forehead contouring, brow lift, scalp advance, lower eyelid blepharoplasty, rhinoplasty, septoplasty, upper lip lift, chin contouring, lower face and neck lift, trachea shave, buccal fat removal, and fat transfers to the temples, cheeks, upper lip, and nasolabial folds. It was a nine-hour surgery. After a three-hour recovery at the clinic, I was driven back to my hotel by a nurse.
This is what I looked like hours after my FFS, back at my hotel room:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fa3OjpKz.jpg&hash=dedd67785f27028fc782c911eac283d06bf758b5)
I was in a lot of pain. I was taking two hydrocodone tablets every four hours, and begging the nurse for more. I could not even see for the first two days. My throat was raw from intubation and mouth-breathing. I couldn't really close my mouth without a lot of effort, and my saliva dried up. Swallowing was very painful.
The nurse I had for aftercare helped me shower on day three, and I got a lot of the bandages off. The swelling in my upper lip had started to go down, and I could almost close my mouth. I still could not drink through a straw.
This was four days post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMLnnFqN.jpg&hash=31e30a067ef27ec79235594aea59a510cc9a4c46)
I still had a drain in my neck and behind my ears. That came out on day five. The white thing around my head is a compression garment. It help minimize swelling under the jaw.
This was eight days post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs2DHjJD.jpg&hash=b82aeb12ad194b97c6fd2cb5111c2f1708a4125a)
I had to trudge through Chicago O'Hare airport looking like this, minus the compression garment. Amazingly, no one paid much attention.
15 days post-op. A lot of the bruising has gone down.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyptU02c.jpg&hash=98cda2594e069db0efa2f021d0b3356587910469)
Finally, 25 days post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpU47FNg.jpg&hash=96d05a161da0739704c0c5acf858c5f3e3f5716d)
So much for "restaurant ready". The swelling in my nose and neck seems to be getting worse, despite the ibuprofen and daily massages. You can't see them, but I have big bruises under my jaw.
I have been slowly getting better, but it has been a long, hard road. I took two-and-a-half weeks off from work, and went back part-time the third week. I barely was able to do that. My stamina was close to zero. Finally, I was able to go back to work full time the fourth week, but I am nowhere close to 100%. On the plus side, I lost 17 pounds in two weeks.
I still have no feeling in my forehead, front of my scalp, under my jaw, or the tips of my ears. The parts that aren't numb are tender. I have to sleep with the compression garment on, which took some getting used to. I also had to get used to sleeping on my back. I am a side-sleeper, but that was very uncomfortable because of the pain in my ears. For the first three weeks after surgery I was taking hydrocodone and valium every night just to get to sleep. The pain from the lower face/neck lift has been the worst. I now take 1200 mg of ibuprofen a day for swelling and pain. I am still bothered by the sutures in my mouth, and I can't open my jaw more than a couple of fingers wide. I'm still spitting sutures from around my ears, under my nose, and at my hairline.
I only point this stuff out because everyone else seems to have had these wonderful, nearly painless experiences, but that's not always how it goes. Just a warning to those of you dreaming about FFS. I wanted this laundry list of stuff done to my face so I could look and feel beautiful, and I never thought for one minute what recovery would be like. Everyone is different, but for me it has been very, very tough. I am not telling anyone not to get FFS, I just want people to know what it can be like.
I got very discouraged and depressed about my recovery, and I want to thank some of the people on this site who have reached out and given me encouragement and strength. I hope this post has been at least somewhat informative, if not helpful to others.
~Terri
My goodness that was a heroic amount of work to have done at the same time and then recover from.
I had FFS the first week of January 2016. I had brow contouring and lift, rhinoplasty to adjust to a small degree the width and slope of the nose, and the laryngeal or tracheal shave.
I thought three things at once was a lot but apparently the three I had done is a very common choice.
Recovery was really good with virtually no real pain just some discomfort.
I had my partner and daughter caring for me at home so I was well cared for.
A cool mist humidifier is a good thing to use through the entire recovery.
It took about four weeks to look reasonably ok but not great and another four until the bruising and swelling was gone.
It is true that we don't really think about the recovery and the pain.
I hope you are through the worst of it and that you will eventually be happy and feel it was all worth it.
I had FFS with Spiegel on Sept 30. I wasn't too worried about the recovery, just that I might regret something. But when I woke up I felt like I made the right choice.
The first night was hard because of the sore throat, but once I could swallow easily, recovery was not painful. I stopped taking pain meds after 7 days.
I have heard that Zukowski recoveries take longer than Spiegel recoveries and that seems consistent with my experience.
Wow thanks for sharing. Sounds like a tough road for sure. Hoping mine isn't so bad but I am only getting forehead and nose done. We'll see how it goes.
Terri, thank you for sharing your FFS experience here. I'm sorry you've had such a difficult recovery though. :(
Quote from: cej on October 15, 2016, 06:15:52 PM
I had FFS with Spiegel on Sept 30. I wasn't too worried about the recovery, just that I might regret something. But when I woke up I felt like I made the right choice.
The first night was hard because of the sore throat, but once I could swallow easily, recovery was not painful. I stopped taking pain meds after 7 days.
I have heard that Zukowski recoveries take longer than Spiegel recoveries and that seems consistent with my experience.
Well for me, I didn't have a sore throat at all. And absolutely no difficulty swallowing either, even though I had a trachea shave done by Dr Zukowski as part of my FFS. :)
Unlike Terri, I didn't experience much pain, and what pain there was was easily managed by normal dosages of vicodin. I stopped taking prescription pain meds after about a week. The worst pain was the first several hours when I had to pee, after having my catheter removed, lol. But also unlike Terri, my rhinoplasty was 2 hrs, and the rest of my FFS (done 8 months later) was 3-4 hrs. Terri's surgery was 9 hours, all at once! Also keep in mind that Terri had work done in her chin/jaw area, which is usually the most painful to recover from.
Sorry cej, but I don't think that Zukowski's surgical techniques just "somehow" make patients take longer to recover than Spiegel. No, that's just baseless speculation. A more plausible explanation is that Zukowski tends to recommend more procedures than Spiegel. Thing is, quite a lot of patients simply agree to everything a surgeon suggests without really thinking hard about all the implications beforehand. It's the number of procedures and the length of the surgery that really affect how difficult the recovery process can be (also, of course, an individual's personal pain tolerance and rate of self-healing).
There are some surgical procedures that are truly necessary to feminize a face (brow bossing removal and trachea shave, for example). But some procedures are really not necessary, and they can make recovery more difficult, not to mention the added financial cost. Does that make it wrong for a surgeon to suggest those procedures? Or for a patient to want them done? No!!! There are plenty of cis women who get cosmetic surgery to make themselves look younger and more beautiful. There is nothing wrong with that. But you have to think really hard before the surgery about what you want done to feminize your face, versus what you want done to look more beautiful. It is up to you, the patient, to do this research yourself. It is a very personal decision and should not be taken lightly.
Quote from: Stephenie S on October 15, 2016, 05:53:40 PM
My goodness that was a heroic amount of work to have done at the same time and then recover from.
Yes, I think "heroic" is the right word. :)
Terri, the worst is behind you now, and as more time goes by, you'll slowly start to feel more like your normal self. I'm confident you'll be happy with the final look in the end!!
Thanks for posting that. Its a good addition to the community knowledge. I'm becoming more and more interested in this subject lately and I'm still learning a lot.
I'm unclear if you're happy with the aesthetic result so far?
Is this a typo? Three days?
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on October 15, 2016, 05:33:06 PM
It was a nine-hour surgery. After a three-hour recovery at the clinic, I was driven back to my hotel by a nurse.
I'm fairly put off by the the lack of proper pain medication. I don't see any reason to suffer pain as there's some really strong drugs like morphine available.
Quote from: AnonyMs on October 16, 2016, 08:08:34 AM
Thanks for posting that. Its a good addition to the community knowledge. I'm becoming more and more interested in this subject lately and I'm still learning a lot.
I'm unclear if you're happy with the aesthetic result so far?
Is this a typo? Three days?
I'm fairly put off by the the lack of proper pain medication. I don't see any reason to suffer pain as there's some really strong drugs like morphine available.
Hi AnonyMs,
I'm glad you asked about the results , because I should have specifically mentioned in my original post that I consider my FFS successful. My face clearly looks more feminine now, even with post-op swelling.
Pre-op profile vs 12 days post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFqNphFP.jpg&hash=e492a64dbdf043e634a5edf834561ddc44ae6fb7)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FviKF0qU.jpg&hash=fd2bd05bbed11f6232134a215ed3c307f664cfec)
As for your question about recovery, that was not a typo. I was out of recovery in three hours, and driven to my hotel room. Dr. Zukowski does most of his surgeries in his clinic. He has a fully-accredited operating theater there. There is an anesthesiologist and OR nurse present during the procedure. The benefit is supposedly less cost and less risk of infection (hospitals have lots of sick people in them), but as I painfully learned, there is one huge disadvantage - pain management. It is not well managed by an RN in a hotel room. There is no equipment to monitor blood oxygen levels or any way to handle respiratory depression from opioid overdose, as there would be in a hospital. If I had to do this over again, I would have asked for a hospital stay. I have a low pain tolerance, and I would have asked for a morphine drip or demerol. Dr. Zukowski is fully accredited to operate in one of the local hospitals, and will do the procedures there if you prefer.
So, lesson learned. The bottom line, though, is I am happy with the results so far if I look at it objectively.
~Terri
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on October 16, 2016, 07:49:34 AM
Terri, thank you for sharing your FFS experience here. I'm sorry you've had such a difficult recovery though. :(
Terri, the worst is behind you now, and as more time goes by, you'll slowly start to feel more like your normal self. I'm confident you'll be happy with the final look in the end!!
Hi Emily,
I want to thank you specifically for the kindness and support you have given me the last few weeks. Also, I want to give thanks to Happy Moni, who has also been very supportive and helpful. Lastly, I want to thank my friends Jessie Ann and Keri (formerly known as Dodie) for their valuable input and encouragement.
With love and kindness,
Terri
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on October 16, 2016, 07:49:34 AM
Sorry cej, but I don't think that Zukowski's surgical techniques just "somehow" make patients take longer to recover than Spiegel. No, that's just baseless speculation. A more plausible explanation is that Zukowski tends to recommend more procedures than Spiegel. Thing is, quite a lot of patients simply agree to everything a surgeon suggests without really thinking hard about all the implications beforehand. It's the number of procedures and the length of the surgery that really affect how difficult the recovery process can be (also, of course, an individual's personal pain tolerance and rate of self-healing).
Spiegel and Z recommended the same list of procedures to me, and I did them all except upper lip lift (which I'll probably add later).
I had 6 hours of surgery. I do think Z defaults to more aggressive mandible, brow, and nose work, though of course both surgeons will deviate from their aesthetic if you ask.
Recovery times and procedures vary highly by individual and FFS is a procedure you don't want to do more than once so it's hard to do a controlled comparison between surgeons. I think FFS would have been worth it for me even if recovery had taken much longer, so I don't think it's a reason to choose one surgeon over another. If I ever get GCS, Thai GCS recovery times are way longer than US but I'd probably still go to Thailand because I couldn't handle the regret of getting a less great result to save myself a few months of discomfort.
Hi Terri, thank you for your help when I was recovering from FFS. It really made a difference when you shard with me your experience. You alleviated many of my fears. You helped me when I was depressed and questioning.
I stayed in the hospital 2 days and had a lot of pain meds. I slept the whole time. On the third day I went to the extended stay and had a horrible 24 hours with throwing up (dry heaves) and bad pain. I think the bad pain was from throwing up. I could not blow my nose as per the doctor and that was an issue after throwing up once. I took nothing in during that period. On the 4th day I awoke was able to manage. I did not take the oxycodone outside of the hospital. I would not be able to keep it down on the third day and the rest of the time for personal reasons. Also, If I could take the 3rd day then the rest would be much easier.
I heal super quick. Dr. Spiegel and their staff were surprised. They said I was the least swollen and least bruised of all his patients. Yet I was swollen and bruised. I had extensive FFS.
I think your initial post-op photos are fantastic! I had FFS, including rhinoplasty, tracheal shave, lip lift and forehead contouring in September of 2015 with Dr. Deschamps-Braly (with guidance from Dr. O). There was noticeable change following the surgery, especially after about 2 weeks or so, but it was very difficult to pinpoint where exactly the change came from.
??? I'm trying to post photos but have no idea how, and I can't find help anywhere on site! ???
The biggest issue I still contend with a year later is my nose. It still swells for what seems like no reason at all, and when it does it changes my features dramatically. I guess my advice is to be patient - everything I read prior to surgery suggested that the healing and "settling" takes upward of a year post-op and my experience suggests that advice is dead-on. I don't think my features are fully settled yet, and the best part of that is that I continue to feminize so the continuing change is all good!
BTW, I had very little sensation in my scalp and forehead for months. Post-op pain was most severe immediately after awakening - think ice pick through forehead!! The next most negative experience was nose packing and sleeping sitting in a recliner!
Congratulations!
Terri, I think you have a very good result! I predict you will be over the moon come February.
I had it all done at once in Portland, back when Toby was still in Portland. So I stayed in his hospital wing for a week. Anyways, 12 hours on the operating table, for forehead, nose, upper lift, mandible, and chin. I was on morphine for twenty-four hours after that, and then they took me off it and gave me Percocet.
The following morning (like 6am) I was in such excruciating pain I wanted to commit suicide. My previous "10" on the scale of 1 to 10 for pain (which was a root canal) was now a 3. I was begging to go back in time and keep this from happening. The nurse there kept me alive. I remember her telling me how this would pass, and how beautiful I would be, that it really was going to be worth all this. They got me on a high dose of Oxycontin or Vicodin, and some Xanax to calm me down. It was a grueling week, but I got through it and got home safe and sound.
It took a good two months for the swelling to go down, and it wasn't until four months out that everything finally started to settle in.
This is major invasive surgery. It's no walk in the park. And it's totally, totally worth every bit of it. :)
Terri,
You already look FANTASTIC!! can wait to see your picture in another 2 weeks!
There is hope for me....
Emily
Quote from: Mia on October 16, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
I think your initial post-op photos are fantastic! I had FFS, including rhinoplasty, tracheal shave, lip lift and forehead contouring in September of 2015 with Dr. Deschamps-Braly (with guidance from Dr. O). There was noticeable change following the surgery, especially after about 2 weeks or so, but it was very difficult to pinpoint where exactly the change came from.
??? I'm trying to post photos but have no idea how, and I can't find help anywhere on site! ???
The biggest issue I still contend with a year later is my nose. It still swells for what seems like no reason at all, and when it does it changes my features dramatically. I guess my advice is to be patient - everything I read prior to surgery suggested that the healing and "settling" takes upward of a year post-op and my experience suggests that advice is dead-on. I don't think my features are fully settled yet, and the best part of that is that I continue to feminize so the continuing change is all good!
BTW, I had very little sensation in my scalp and forehead for months. Post-op pain was most severe immediately after awakening - think ice pick through forehead!! The next most negative experience was nose packing and sleeping sitting in a recliner!
Congratulations!
Thank you for posting this, Mia. I am most concerned about my nose. It was absolutely perfect on day 12, then I took the tape off and in the next couple of days I noticed significant swelling at the tip of my nose, and my perfectly shaped nose now had a bump at the bridge! The bump really worries me. I hear the bone pretty much sets after six weeks. I try to do the massages Dr. Zukowski recommends, but nothing really seems to happen except for my nose getting sore.
As far as photos, I think you have to have 15 posts to do that. I'm surprised Dena or Joanna or someone hasn't come swooping down out of the heavens to give you the standard introductory welcome.
I look forward to your posts!
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Rachel Lynn on October 16, 2016, 10:55:37 AM
Hi Terri, thank you for your help when I was recovering from FFS. It really made a difference when you shard with me your experience. You alleviated many of my fears. You helped me when I was depressed and questioning.
I stayed in the hospital 2 days and had a lot of pain meds. I slept the whole time. On the third day I went to the extended stay and had a horrible 24 hours with throwing up (dry heaves) and bad pain. I think the bad pain was from throwing up. I could not blow my nose as per the doctor and that was an issue after throwing up once. I took nothing in during that period. On the 4th day I awoke was able to manage. I did not take the oxycodone outside of the hospital. I would not be able to keep it down on the third day and the rest of the time for personal reasons. Also, If I could take the 3rd day then the rest would be much easier.
I heal super quick. Dr. Spiegel and their staff were surprised. They said I was the least swollen and least bruised of all his patients. Yet I was swollen and bruised. I had extensive FFS.
His Rachel,
You are quite welcome. As I mentioned, I got that same support from others, and I am glad I was able to provide some small amount of reassurance to you.
I have followed your 40+ page "blog" on your transition, and I must say you are a very brave woman. You have accomplished so much in so little time. I have been in transition about two-and-a-half years, and I am only now trying to deal with the estrangement from my wife and sons, getting my name legally changed (Done!), gender marker changed with the SSA (Done!), and on to getting a new drivers license, coming out at work, and everything else.
I should be full-time by November, and then the clock starts on RLE. Transition is so damn hard.
~Terri
Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 16, 2016, 12:53:36 PM
Terri, I think you have a very good result! I predict you will be over the moon come February.
I had it all done at once in Portland, back when Toby was still in Portland. So I stayed in his hospital wing for a week. Anyways, 12 hours on the operating table, for forehead, nose, upper lift, mandible, and chin. I was on morphine for twenty-four hours after that, and then they took me off it and gave me Percocet.
The following morning (like 6am) I was in such excruciating pain I wanted to commit suicide. My previous "10" on the scale of 1 to 10 for pain (which was a root canal) was now a 3. I was begging to go back in time and keep this from happening. The nurse there kept me alive. I remember her telling me how this would pass, and how beautiful I would be, that it really was going to be worth all this. They got me on a high dose of Oxycontin or Vicodin, and some Xanax to calm me down. It was a grueling week, but I got through it and got home safe and sound.
It took a good two months for the swelling to go down, and it wasn't until four months out that everything finally started to settle in.
This is major invasive surgery. It's no walk in the park. And it's totally, totally worth every bit of it. :)
Hi Sophia,
Thank you so much for posting this. This is the message I wanted to get across. I don't regret FFS one bit. I consider my surgery a success. In a way, I'm glad I was so naive. I may not have had the courage to do it! I'm about as tough as wet tissue paper. Fortunately everything worked out.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Emily R on October 16, 2016, 01:51:30 PM
Terri,
You already look FANTASTIC!! can wait to see your picture in another 2 weeks!
There is hope for me....
Emily
Hi Emily,
Thank you for your kind words. As you can see, the change from 15 to 25 days was minimal. In fact, I think I look worse at day 25 than I did at day 15. That is part of what makes recovery so tough. You tell yourself, "Everyday I am going to get a little better", then you look in the mirror and that is not happening.
As others have told me, and I can attest to, post-operative depression is a real thing. I was under anaesthesia for nine hours. It has an effect on you. Even Dr. Zukowski told me, "When you get home, you are going to hit a wall. Just rest as much as you can."
Yes, Emily, there is hope for you. I am not tough, and I am not brave, and I managed to do it. You can, too.
Best wishes to you,
Terri
Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 16, 2016, 12:53:36 PM
The following morning (like 6am) I was in such excruciating pain I wanted to commit suicide. My previous "10" on the scale of 1 to 10 for pain (which was a root canal) was now a 3.
That brings back memories... I had the works with Dr. O back in 1999... the pain and discomfort post FFS was the worst I had ever felt... compared to that, SRS with breast augmentation was a walk in the park!
BTW I had consults with both Dr. O an Meltzer for FFS in 1998. I decided on Dr. O back then because he impressed more. Meltzer was just getting into the FFS and I wanted someone with more experience. (I did use Meltzer for SRS)
It does take a long time to see the final result. In my case I was mostly there in about 6 months, but for some it is longer.
Quote from: Karen_A on October 16, 2016, 03:54:40 PMThat brings back memories... I had the works with Dr. O back in 1999... the pain and discomfort post FFS was the worst I had ever felt... compared to that, SRS with breast augmentation was a walk in the park!
Indeed!
SRS/BAS was about a 6 on the pain scale, compared to the 10 of facial surgery. Quite the walk in the park!
Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 16, 2016, 05:37:29 PM
Indeed!
SRS/BAS was about a 6 on the pain scale, compared to the 10 of facial surgery. Quite the walk in the park!
Results may vary.
SRS =8, Trach=5, FFS=4, blepharoplasty=2, Root canal=2, wisdom teeth=2, labiaplasty=2, broken rib=5. I had Ousterhout for FFS and the bleph, if it matters.
Quote from: Mia on October 16, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
I think your initial post-op photos are fantastic! I had FFS, including rhinoplasty, tracheal shave, lip lift and forehead contouring in September of 2015 with Dr. Deschamps-Braly (with guidance from Dr. O). There was noticeable change following the surgery, especially after about 2 weeks or so, but it was very difficult to pinpoint where exactly the change came from.
??? I'm trying to post photos but have no idea how, and I can't find help anywhere on site! ???
The biggest issue I still contend with a year later is my nose. It still swells for what seems like no reason at all, and when it does it changes my features dramatically. I guess my advice is to be patient - everything I read prior to surgery suggested that the healing and "settling" takes upward of a year post-op and my experience suggests that advice is dead-on. I don't think my features are fully settled yet, and the best part of that is that I continue to feminize so the continuing change is all good!
BTW, I had very little sensation in my scalp and forehead for months. Post-op pain was most severe immediately after awakening - think ice pick through forehead!! The next most negative experience was nose packing and sleeping sitting in a recliner!
Congratulations!
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on October 16, 2016, 02:40:07 PM
As far as photos, I think you have to have 15 posts to do that. I'm surprised Dena or Joanna or someone hasn't come swooping down out of the heavens to give you the standard introductory welcome.
Welcome to Susan's Place Mai. The FFS section is a good place to hide out from us so we were a bit slow catching up to you. As you will see in the links, your profile will remain locked until you reach 15 posts and while posting images and links is restricted, normally we allow images that you own to be posted without restriction. The trick is to post the images on a server like Photobucket and capture the link. I suggest Photobucket because you can remove the images if you decide you no longer want them visible. After you capture the link, you include it in your post as followed.
[img]http://url.jpg[/img]
We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.
Things that you should read
- Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
- Standard Terms and Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
- Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
- Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)
- News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)
- Photo, avatars, and signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)
That amopunt of bruising is scary - is this because you had so much done at the same time? I saw a few post OP pictures here at about 10 days and they looked like they could go to work already if they put on some good makeup - but they usually had only the basics done - forehead, nose, jaw/chin and lip lift.
I think I would be quite scared to go to the hotel on the same day. It was ok to do so when I had voice surgery, but that was only 60-90min surgery time. Do they have some nurse at the hotel or some way to call for help?
Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2016, 02:32:57 AM
That amopunt of bruising is scary - is this because you had so much done at the same time? I saw a few post OP pictures here at about 10 days and they looked like they could go to work already if they put on some good makeup - but they usually had only the basics done - forehead, nose, jaw/chin and lip lift.
I think I would be quite scared to go to the hotel on the same day. It was ok to do so when I had voice surgery, but that was only 60-90min surgery time. Do they have some nurse at the hotel or some way to call for help?
Hi Anjaq,
Yes, I hired a nurse, pre-arranged through Dr. Zukowski' office, for 24 hr/day aftercare for the first two days, and 7 hr/day for the third day. As far as the bruising, yes, I had a lot done, but Dr. Zukowski also said I was a "bleeder". There was some vasculature in my face that was apparently unusual.
There was always an option to stay in a hospital, but I never inquired about the price difference, since Dr. Z gave the impression that aftercare would be quite adequate at the hotel. Except for the pain management, it was. That was a very big exception, however. If I had to do it over, I would have probably elected for a hospital stay. The first night after surgery was one of the worst nights of my life.
~Terri
Staying at a hospital is very expensive, as you all know (at least in the USA). But as Terri wrote, with Dr Zukowski you also have the option of staying at a hospital, if you are worried about the immediate post-op experience and pain management. It'll just cost a lot more money.
I just wanted to post an update. I am now almost two months post-op, and while recovery is slow, I am mostly pain-free. Still, many areas of my face are either tender (orbital rims, ear lobes believe it or not) or numb (forehead, front of scalp, under jaw, tips of ears).
I am still spitting sutures, which are most noticeable on my forehead. My neck often hurts and I am constantly massaging it because it is so uncomfortable. Right now, my biggest problem area is my neck, which is still quite swollen, and the fact my nostrils are uneven and the tip of my nose is still swollen. All these problems will likely resolve in the next few months, I am told.
You can see that here:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOR9R2Sy.jpg&hash=665760166aaf06bb52d4e467c35a2ed283bbe5b1)
All that said, if you compare this photo or my avatar photo to what I used to look like, the difference is huge. Despite the pain, despite the cost, FFS has been very worthwhile for me.
~Terri
Terri,
You look beautiful!
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on October 15, 2016, 05:33:06 PM
I had FFS on September 15th with Dr. Zukowski. The treatment plan was very aggressive. [...] It was a nine-hour surgery. After a three-hour recovery at the clinic, I was driven back to my hotel by a nurse.
This is what I looked like hours after my FFS, back at my hotel room:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fa3OjpKz.jpg&hash=dedd67785f27028fc782c911eac283d06bf758b5)
I was in a lot of pain.
He sent you back to a hotel room after 9 hours in surgery? I'm speechless.You are a very brave person. My gosh what a lot you had done. You are one tough lass. All speedy ongoing recovery to you xx
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 11, 2016, 11:17:18 AM
I just wanted to post an update. I am now almost two months post-op, and while recovery is slow, I am mostly pain-free. Still, many areas of my face are either tender (orbital rims, ear lobes believe it or not) or numb (forehead, front of scalp, under jaw, tips of ears).
You can see that here:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOR9R2Sy.jpg&hash=665760166aaf06bb52d4e467c35a2ed283bbe5b1)
You look fabulous honey! Wow well done x
Quote from: Rachel Richenda on November 15, 2016, 07:33:13 AM
He sent you back to a hotel room after 9 hours in surgery? I'm speechless.
You are a very brave person. My gosh what a lot you had done. You are one tough lass. All speedy ongoing recovery to you xx
Hi Rachel,
I was naive. Dr. Zukowski is fully credentialed to use local hospitals, and he offers that option, but he sells the idea that his clinic is cleaner and cheaper. It may very well be, but the one thing I did not consider, and he did not mention, was that your options for pain management are limited when you are in a hotel room with a nurse.
I was in a *lot* of pain after surgery. I was begging for more pain meds, but the nurse could only do so much. In a hotel room, there is no blood oximeter or means of artificial ventilation, so there is a real danger from fatal respiratory depression from opioid overdose. I really suffered. It was a mistake I'll never make again.
But yes, I am pleased with the results! I wish you much luck and great blessings for your upcoming surgery.
~Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 15, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Hi Rachel,
I was naive. Dr. Zukowski is fully credentialed to use local hospitals, and he offers that option, but he sells the idea that his clinic is cleaner and cheaper. It may very well be, but the one thing I did not consider, and he did not mention, was that your options for pain management are limited when you are in a hotel room with a nurse.
I was in a *lot* of pain after surgery. I was begging for more pain meds, but the nurse could only do so much. In a hotel room, there is no blood oximeter or means of artificial ventilation, so there is a real danger from fatal respiratory depression from opioid overdose. I really suffered. It was a mistake I'll never make again.
But yes, I am pleased with the results! I wish you much luck and great blessings for your upcoming surgery.
~Terri
Ouch! I'm sorry you went through that but glad you go through it ok.
Hi Terri...welcome to passdom or womanhood or whatever you want to call it. Your efforts and pain were not in vain. You made it to the other side in grand style! Have a lovely life, you've earned it in spades. Lisa
Quote from: Rachel Richenda on November 15, 2016, 07:33:13 AM
He sent you back to a hotel room after 9 hours in surgery? I'm speechless.
This really puts me off having any kind of surgery in the USA. I can't understand how its acceptable to even offer it as a choice.
Quote from: AnonyMs on November 15, 2016, 10:33:09 PM
This really puts me off having any kind of surgery in the USA. I can't understand how its acceptable to even offer it as a choice.
Because the average cost of a hospital stay is
$2000 per day in the USA (http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/average-cost-per-inpatient-day-across-50-states-2016.html). If you stay there just 3 days after surgery, that's an additional $6000 added to the already very expensive cost of the surgery itself.
You can save a ton of money by recovering at a hotel. And aside from the pain (and yes, it can potentially be very painful), I don't think the risk is that high as long as you have a dedicated caregiver. Is it worth it to [potentially] endure some more pain to save $6000 - $10,000? That's up to you to decide for yourself. Speaking from my own experience, I felt only a little pain during my own post-op FFS. And I also had my surgery done by Dr Zukowski. If I had stayed at a hospital, I would have literally thrown away my money for no good reason.
Of course, if you'd rather stay at a hospital, Dr Zukowski offers that option too. Or you can choose to get your FFS done outside the US. Unfortunately, hospital costs in the US are astronomically higher than anywhere else in the world.
Wow. Whereas it's just over $100 a night at a top rate 5* hospital in Bangkok.
This is an example of why I think it's so dangerous: http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kellie-maloney-surgery-nearly-killed-4677898
If you do get that kind of reaction then every second counts.
At least one night in hospital post-op is surely wise isn't it? No-one can be sure how they might react in the immediate hours following surgery. PAI build that first night hospital stay into their costs and as far as I know it's mandatory.
Quote from: Rachel Richenda on November 15, 2016, 07:34:09 AM
You look fabulous honey! Wow well done x
Thank you, Rachel. That means a lot to me.
Quote from: Maria77 on November 12, 2016, 09:09:06 PM
Terri,
You look beautiful!
Thank you, Maria. You're very kind.
Quote from: jentay1367 on November 15, 2016, 10:06:28 PM
Hi Terri...welcome to passdom or womanhood or whatever you want to call it.
Lisa
Yes... passing, the Holy Grail for most of us. I've been luckier than some. I'm 5'8", and have a small frame for a man, but I'm still too heavy at 185 lb, and too broad-shouldered to fit well in a lot of women's clothes. Still, I was semi-passable before FFS.
Compare me six months ago, before FFS, and me last week, two-months post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDL6k1CP.jpg&hash=6c12eb9fc7deeedfac00c124e614b093cc02bd11)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXHDK2NH.jpg&hash=412a78fc1a1ca2eefec2445eed027791d752f612)
It's night and day. I cringe now when I see my before pictures. I was part-time for six months before FFS and I went out to bars, restaurants (including ladies' rooms) and shopping malls. Although I was never once openly stared at (to my knowledge) or had anyone say anything rude to me, I still think RLE is cruel, and so dangerous. So yes, I feel I have attained some sort of right-of-passage. My driver's license and credit cards now have my female name on them (with the correct gender on my DL), sort of an added layer of protection (and validation).
Still, I have that jarring dissonance of being anatomically incorrect. I cannot stand having a bulge in my panties. Fortunately, my RLE clock has started, and I can only hang on until I can get SRS. Then I will truly feel I have joined the club, lol.
I apologize if I have offended those of you who reject gender stereotypes, or feel that "being a woman" is a lot more than your clothes or the physical appearance of your body. I can appreciate that point of view, but I am very much gender binary, and I have come to the conclusion that my "inner self" does not count as currency for my desire to be accepted by others in society as female.
With kindness,
Terri
You truly earned it Terri! you look stunning! :) :icon_wave:
You look really fantastic Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 16, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Compare me six months ago, before FFS, and me last week, two-months post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDL6k1CP.jpg&hash=6c12eb9fc7deeedfac00c124e614b093cc02bd11)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXHDK2NH.jpg&hash=412a78fc1a1ca2eefec2445eed027791d752f612)
DAMN! All I can say is DAMN!
What a change that is! Congratz on that. Well worth the horribly tough recovery it seems you had.
Terri, your results are just amazing. The new you looks great! That's really remarkable.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 16, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Compare me six months ago, before FFS, and me last week, two-months post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDL6k1CP.jpg&hash=6c12eb9fc7deeedfac00c124e614b093cc02bd11)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXHDK2NH.jpg&hash=412a78fc1a1ca2eefec2445eed027791d752f612)
Slaying it Terri! Gorgeous.
@ 2Cherry, cej, Debra, Michelle, and April, thank you so much for the kind words.
I know everyone touts their surgeon, but I think Dr. Zukowski really is very good - despite my complaints about aftercare. His name on his personal e-mail is "facesculptor", and that's exactly what he is. He has been doing reconstructive plastic surgery for 23 years, and FFS for over 19 years. He does about three procedures a week, so probably over 100 a year. That's likely over 2000 FFS procedures in his career.
That said, I don't know if he does Type III forehead reconstruction, as he pointedly mentions the disadvantages in breaching the sinus cavity in his consultation correspondence. I know he told me that he was initially trained to do coronal incision type procedures, but he later switched to endoscopic techniques, and that is his bread and butter. So if you think you need Type I or Type II forehead work, he might be your guy. Incidentally, both Dr. Harrison Lee and Dr. Eric Bensimon said I needed type I or II forehead contouring, so I know Dr. Zukowski wasn't "selling" me on this. It was the right procedure for me.
I hope this thread has helped others with their FFS decisions!
With kindness,
Terri
I'm glad you had a good experience! Zukowski seems to be polarizing, a lot of other surgeons criticize his work but many of his patients love him. I decided I needed type III and went to Spiegel.
No I don't believe he does type 3 forehead reconstruction. He can attempt it, but it won't look flat. I've seen photos and I don't like how it looks.
But he is good if you don't have a type 3 forehead.
Does the Zuchowski endoscopic method really have a much lower risk of scalp numbness than the hairline or coronal incisions? You say you have some scalp numbness, so at least some temporal numbness is happening , as it does with the other methods as well, but are the risks of long term numbness less?
Quote from: anjaq on November 19, 2016, 08:24:39 AM
Does the Zuchowski endoscopic method really have a much lower risk of scalp numbness than the hairline or coronal incisions? You say you have some scalp numbness, so at least some temporal numbness is happening , as it does with the other methods as well, but are the risks of long term numbness less?
You know, that's a good question. I have a hairline incision, because I had a scalp advance. Even so, the incision is much shorter than a coronal incision by four to five inches on each side, so fewer nerves may be getting severed. If I didn't elect to have a scalp advance, the incision would have been even smaller. Still, I do have forehead numbness starting just over my eyebrows, except for an interesting little strip right in the middle of my forehead where sensation is already returning, and scalp numbness posterior to the hairline incision. Dr. Zukowski gave the usual disclaimer that feeling would return in the next few weeks or months.
~Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 19, 2016, 04:54:38 PM
Still, I do have forehead numbness starting just over my eyebrows, except for an interesting little strip right in the middle of my forehead where sensation is already returning, and scalp numbness posterior to the hairline incision. Dr. Zukowski gave the usual disclaimer that feeling would return in the next few weeks or months.
Yeah that's what I have too. The middle above the nose has feeling but the rest of the forehead including eyebrows are semi-numb. I can currently only 'raise' my left eyebrow even tho I try to raise both.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 16, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Compare me six months ago, before FFS, and me last week, two-months post-op:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDL6k1CP.jpg&hash=6c12eb9fc7deeedfac00c124e614b093cc02bd11)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXHDK2NH.jpg&hash=412a78fc1a1ca2eefec2445eed027791d752f612)
I apologize if I have offended those of you who reject gender stereotypes, or feel that "being a woman" is a lot more than your clothes or the physical appearance of your body. I can appreciate that point of view, but I am very much gender binary, and I have come to the conclusion that my "inner self" does not count as currency for my desire to be accepted by others in society as female.
Terri,
I am in awe at what you have achieved, an inspiration to all of us of more advanced age (although I doubt anyone would guess looking at you!).
Am totally with you on the gender stereotype issue. I'm very much of the 'each to their own' point of view and ultimately, it depends on how one's dysphoria manifests itself. Mine tends to centre on a yearning for the lifestyle ('socia' dysphoria) but this tends to be a more specific view of the female lifestyle rather than just wanting to be female whatever (and, in fact, I will often see a woman in the street and think that, if that is womanhood, no thanks). If, and it's a very big if, I was to consider transition, I am realistic and know that, as I am a similar age to you, no amount of FFS is ever going to turn me into a 20 year old beauty. I would, however, need to feel comfortable that I could become a reasonably attractive middle aged woman and if I couldn't satisfy myself on that, then I can't see how transition would give me the fulfilment I crave. As I said at the start, though, each to their own and I know that many others will have a different view on what works for them.
In the meantime, congratulations on your achievement and thank you for sharing your experience and results with us.
Amanda
Thank you, Amanda, for your kind words.
Quote from: aaajjj55 on December 19, 2016, 03:34:36 AM
I am realistic and know that, as I am a similar age to you, no amount of FFS is ever going to turn me into a 20 year old beauty. I would, however, need to feel comfortable that I could become a reasonably attractive middle aged woman and if I couldn't satisfy myself on that, then I can't see how transition would give me the fulfilment I crave.
These were my thoughts exactly. My goal, from the beginning of my transition, was to be "a reasonably attractive middle aged woman" that one would not look twice at while walking down the street. I will never have a womb, or bear children, or have a girlhood or mother-daughter relationship, or grow up with others girls and have a lifetime to learn what it is to be a woman in our society, both good and bad. I feel post-transition social acceptance is my only remaining claim to womanhood.
I risked my family, friends, and career on the chance I could have "ten good years" being accepted a woman in society, "good years" being defined as financial independence and reasonably good health. Of course, I would love to be thought of as pretty, and being gender binary, I want men to be attracted to me, although I am probably bisexual at this stage of my transition. Somehow, I have managed to acquire a boyfriend even at this stage of my transition, and once I am anatomically correct I hope I will be able to fulfill my role as a girlfriend and maybe even someday as a wife. If I can do that, all the pain and suffering and doubt will have been worth it.
Thank you again for your well wishes,
Terri
Wow. Great results!
What fabulous results Terri. You look wonderful x
Wow you look so gorgeous!
I wonder why doctor z doesn't narrow/refine the nostril tip to make it more tinier.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 11, 2016, 11:17:18 AM
I just wanted to post an update. I am now almost two months post-op, and while recovery is slow, I am mostly pain-free. Still, many areas of my face are either tender (orbital rims, ear lobes believe it or not) or numb (forehead, front of scalp, under jaw, tips of ears).
I am still spitting sutures, which are most noticeable on my forehead. My neck often hurts and I am constantly massaging it because it is so uncomfortable. Right now, my biggest problem area is my neck, which is still quite swollen, and the fact my nostrils are uneven and the tip of my nose is still swollen. All these problems will likely resolve in the next few months, I am told.
You can see that here:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOR9R2Sy.jpg&hash=665760166aaf06bb52d4e467c35a2ed283bbe5b1)
All that said, if you compare this photo or my avatar photo to what I used to look like, the difference is huge. Despite the pain, despite the cost, FFS has been very worthwhile for me.
~Terri
Terri, congrats, you seem to have had great results. Am glad for you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It really helps!
Thanks Terri! You look amazing. I haven't started hrt but I am only an hr from dr. Z? Your results are just amazing.
Quote from: icy on February 11, 2017, 01:19:18 AM
Wow you look so gorgeous!
I wonder why doctor z doesn't narrow/refine the nostril tip to make it more tinier.
Hi Icy,
If that is what you want, I am sure Dr. Z could give you that look. I did not specify at all. I can tell you that at day 12, the first day all the surgical tape came off, I had a perfect little slightly upturned nose. Within a week, the tip became more swollen, and I noticed I was developing a bump on the bridge of my nose. I will be talking to Dr. Z this week about the possibility of filing down the bone this summer. The tip seems to be getting smaller on its own, which Is what I was told to expect.
With kindness,
Terri
Hi Terri,
I'm scheduled with Dr. Z in September! Thank you so much for sharing your FFS experience with him in such detail!
Quote from: maybeventually on July 30, 2017, 04:46:09 PM
Hi Terri,
I'm scheduled with Dr. Z in September! Thank you so much for sharing your FFS experience with him in such detail!
You're welcome! I am glad it helped. Good luck with your surgery in September! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on November 15, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Hi Rachel,
I was naive. Dr. Zukowski is fully credentialed to use local hospitals, and he offers that option, but he sells the idea that his clinic is cleaner and cheaper. It may very well be, but the one thing I did not consider, and he did not mention, was that your options for pain management are limited when you are in a hotel room with a nurse.
I was in a *lot* of pain after surgery. I was begging for more pain meds, but the nurse could only do so much. In a hotel room, there is no blood oximeter or means of artificial ventilation, so there is a real danger from fatal respiratory depression from opioid overdose. I really suffered. It was a mistake I'll never make again.
But yes, I am pleased with the results! I wish you much luck and great blessings for your upcoming surgery.
~Terri
I am most likely booking surgery with Dr Bart Van de Ven, does anyone know what the pain management is like at his clinic? I think I only get one night in hospital, then I am in a guesthouse. Are there doctors that keep you in hospital for more than a night or two?
It sounds like post op care is something that really has to be carefully thought of and organised.
Sonja.