Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Dear woman who also happen to be transwoman and who love men,

I registered because I feel I need to reach out to others who might understand the problems I have been facing the last couple of years. I have transitioned 6 years ago, but am still pre-op ( but on HRT ) after a long and difficult 25 years of being "gendervariant", not by choice but by nature.

My childhood, male puberty and early adulthood have left tremendous scars, which I have not been able to fully overcome, despite trying every therapy I could find. I have had to accept that I have several mental disorders that I will not be able to cure. The enormous amount of stress I have experienced living as a boy in the past has resulted in chronic illness and chronic fatigue. Beeing able to transition gave me hope, but it has been hard. The hormone therapy and emotional and psychological blows I faced living as a transwoman have eventually taken my last bit of energy and I am now in a place where I feel physically broken and emotionally empty.

All the struggle to survive have not helped to enjoy myself as a woman and I am not able to enjoy myself and what I am. Not socially or physically or romantically. Transition has been an improvement and I have no doubts about my transition but I have not been able to enjoy being a woman because being trans gets in the way of that.

I tried dating but due to ->-bleeped-<-s and the complexity of dating men as a transwoman I have slowly but surely lost interest and the ability to fantasize about the possibility of finding a fullfilling relationship, which has in turn decreased my libido so severely, it could be described as non-existent.

I do not enjoy shopping for clothes anymore (whats the use), and it does not make me feel more feminine or happy. I mention this because this is my problem. My inability to enjoy womanhood. The things keeping me from this I am not able to change. So I try to do it solo, in my heart, but I am having a tough time connecting with my femininity. Perhaps because it was so hurt and I seem to have lost hope for a better life. Like I really tried but failed.

Do some of you experience this? And if so: Would you like to share with me what has helped you? I cant seem to shake of my dissapointment with life and the depression. I do know there are a lot of people on earth that suffer more then I do in life. Still their courage and determination have not inspired me so much as to keep on trying and hoping for something that I now believe will never be. Even though I am still "it" every day of my life. I am not a pretty/ attractive girl...not ugly just plain bordering on ugly)

Hope someone can relate and shed some light. ( not having srs is not my main problem, its being trans and especially the way others react to this fact)

Love
Anothergirlsparadise

Welcome to Susan's Place. I am asexual and had surgery in 1982 but I may be able to shed some light on what you are facing. In the months before I had surgery I reached the point where my dysphoria was pretty well in the background. I realized that my current life was far better than what I had in the past and that was sufficient. My goal was to stop the hurting that I had before the transition and I accomplished it. I enjoy my body and I am comfortable with it but the desire to alter my body with clothing is pretty well gone. Yes, I like to look my best if I am going out some place special but it's not the excitement I once felt. I think what might help you is remembering what your life was like before starting the transition and seeing how much better your life is today. The goal is to live a normal life and without dysphoria, our life can become pretty normal.

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Hello,

I suffer from long term depression and am on a SSRI medication. It helps move the baseline up so when there are lows you have more resilience to get out of the low.

I am in the process of divorce The decree will come very soon. I apologized throughout our marriage about my lack of sexual desire. Since about 2 years ago I was told she no longer was interested with me. I want to be with a guy again, one that will love me for being me.

I have been followed in the gayborhood, which was annoying that became frightening when I could not shake the guy and he started to get aggressive. I have been yelled at to perform sexual acts from a guy that came into my personal space. I was blocked from walking by a guy, he was big.

I told my therapist that I really wanted to meet a guy and that I was thinking of going back to the gay bars. She knows I am an alcoholic and advised against it. She listed many different groups and what they were about. Some of them were interesting and some embarrassing. One was Queer Farias, they take walks in the woods nude and have a lot of sex. Walks in the woods is good but the naked and sex part was not what I was looking for. I want a relationship. Anyhow there were a lot of different groups listed. I just need to step up and try.

Being trans is hard and I understand where you are coming from. However, don't lose sight of why you transitioned and why you became the woman you are now. I know we need validation and acceptance. But it has to start with us and that's the most challenging part. I suggest that you surround yourself with people that will only bring you up. Only when you are in love with yourself that true love can show up.

Cheer up, life is what you make it to be. Stay blessed.

I'm not as far into transition, and don't have a whole lot of advice to offer but, I just want to say I can relate to your feelings of disappointment and depression, the chronic fatigue, injuries and stress that came from years of trying so hard to be the boy I thought I should be... of enjoying the changes of transition but still feeling like I'm not really enjoying life or living anywhere close to the fullest. I just wanted to say you're not alone and offer my solidarity.

Sometimes listening to music with nice headphones, getting exercise, a good book, or a funny TV show can keep the blues at bay for a while. I wish I had more to say, I feel like I am a sad and tired, empty person as well.. but I'm not totally empty or dead yet.. just hurt..

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 16, 2016, 10:04:22 AM
Dear woman who also happen to be transwoman and who love men,

Do some of you experience this? And if so: Would you like to share with me what has helped you? I cant seem to shake of my dissapointment with life and the depression. I do know there are a lot of people on earth that suffer more then I do in life. Still their courage and determination have not inspired me so much as to keep on trying and hoping for something that I now believe will never be. Even though I am still "it" every day of my life. I am not a pretty/ attractive girl...not ugly just plain bordering on ugly)

Hope someone can relate and shed some light. ( not having srs is not my main problem, its being trans and especially the way others react to this fact)

Love
Anothergirlsparadise

You are not alone. Not by a long shot. Trans kids get "Gas Lighted," and if you are not familiar with that specific term, you can google it. In the film, Paris is Burning, I believe, one of the people in the documentary speaks of "massive behavior modification" when it comes to the black community. Black and trans has got to be a double-whammy. I am not black, so I can only imagine, but what I don't have to imagine is all that ->-bleeped-<- trans kids put up with. It can lead to depression. It can lead to STSD.

We're beaten psychologically, and sometimes physically, like dogs. We are given "aversion therapy" by society over a period of years. We try to cope. The pain is great. Some drown themselves in alcohol, or get lost in drugs, or mindless sex--sometimes some combination or all. Many seek out the BDSM community not in a healthy way, but one that is destructive so that we get the punishment we know we "deserve." We dull ourselves to ourselves just so we don't have to feel that deep ache another day. Not another moment.

But there is hope.

In Matthew (KJV) we read, "Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel . . ." The way out, in my view, is to go through. Speaking only for myself, once my body was in alignment, my spirit came into alignment. I am not some holy roller (at least I think I'm not) who suggest that belief in a higher power will deliver us, but at the same time denying our immortal souls is toxic and caustic and leads to every kind of pain.

I have no answers. I can only say the way out was forward and through--the hero's journey.

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 17, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
You are not alone. Not by a long shot. Trans kids get "Gas Lighted," and if you are not familiar with that specific term, you can google it. In the film, Paris is Burning, I believe, one of the people in the documentary speaks of "massive behavior modification" when it comes to the black community. Black and trans has got to be a double-whammy. I am not black, so I can only imagine, but what I don't have to imagine is all that ->-bleeped-<- trans kids put up with. It can lead to depression. It can lead to STSD.

We're beaten psychologically, and sometimes physically, like dogs. We are given "aversion therapy" by society over a period of years. We try to cope. The pain is great. Some drown themselves in alcohol, or get lost in drugs, or mindless sex--sometimes some combination or all. Many seek out the BDSM community not in a healthy way, but one that is destructive so that we get the punishment we know we "deserve." We dull ourselves to ourselves just so we don't have to feel that deep ache another day. Not another moment.

But there is hope.

In Matthew (KJV) we read, "Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel . . ." The way out, in my view, is to go through. Speaking only for myself, once my body was in alignment, my spirit came into alignment. I am not some holy roller (at least I think I'm not) who suggest that belief in a higher power will deliver us, but at the same time denying our immortal souls is toxic and caustic and leads to every kind of pain.

I have no answers. I can only say the way out was forward and through--the hero's journey.

Hi!

Thank you for your reply. What you are describing in your post is almost exactly what I experienced and had led me to the place I am in now.

When I transitioned I felt a lot of hope. Hope for that hero's journey, following the souls purpose to fullfillment...yet 6 years on I feel I have lost contact with my femininity. Especially due to the isolation I still experience as a transwoman despite the fact that I am myself and try to live an honest life as best as I can. Still the lack of validation has started to eat on my selfesteem. I have slowly started building a wall again when I tore it down years ago when I started transition. My enthousiasm has changed into some sorth of cynical bitterness and anger/resentment.

It feels like, no matter what I do. It will never be enough. I used to fight for a future but I lost my faith in the future. I think my pride helps me now to fight not to win, but to fight for the sake of fighting.

I tried giving up and surrendering to my fate but thats not helping.

If only I could remain in contact with my soul.
I am trying to accomplish this though spiritual work once I get passed the rejection and denial found there in religion and all the other stuff that triggers trauma.

I dont like the feeling of lacking life energy, desire and libido. I dont feel alive.

Love
Anothergirlsparadise

Quote from: AoifeJ on October 17, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
. I just wanted to say you're not alone and offer my solidarity.

Thank you.

I know there can be many reasons for these feelings - frustration at being stuck as "trans" can be one of them - either for oneself, feeling that the dysphoria is not goin away as some things did not change (yet) of because other people do not see it and keep misgendering or calling one a TG.

One reason I always would look at though is hormones - a bad hormone therapy can make life miserable. I suffered from depression a lot before but also after transitioning and after some years I changed HRT and it helped. I am not all happy and funny now, but I am ok, sometimes feeling low and down, but sometimes I feel happy to be a woman again. I think one damaging part of HRT is the antiandrogens. They lower T too much and some T is needed. All women have some T, sometimes more T than E, actually. The other damaging thing is to use oral estrogen monotherapy instead of using transdermal or injectable hormones that combine E and P.
I am not saying this is a magic pill or something, but just you may consider thinking about optimizing our hormones.

Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2016, 02:29:39 PM
I know there can be many reasons for these feelings - frustration at being stuck as "trans" can be one of them - either for oneself, feeling that the dysphoria is not goin away as some things did not change (yet) of because other people do not see it and keep misgendering or calling one a TG.

One reason I always would look at though is hormones - a bad hormone therapy can make life miserable. I suffered from depression a lot before but also after transitioning and after some years I changed HRT and it helped. I am not all happy and funny now, but I am ok, sometimes feeling low and down, but sometimes I feel happy to be a woman again. I think one damaging part of HRT is the antiandrogens. They lower T too much and some T is needed. All women have some T, sometimes more T than E, actually. The other damaging thing is to use oral estrogen monotherapy instead of using transdermal or injectable hormones that combine E and P.
I am not saying this is a magic pill or something, but just you may consider thinking about optimizing our hormones.

Hi Ankaq!

You are absolutely right! Ive done everything I could think off and am using the lowest amount of blocker. My estrogens and testosterone are in optimal range. I also tried progesterone but disliked it.

So there is nothing to be gained I think from the hormone department. I do need a big loan from the girl zone. :)

Ok - it was just a thought. Many endocrinologists aim at very low serum levels of T and decirbe it as optimal if it is very low, but young women have actually quite a bit of T - usually close to the upper limit of the range the lab prints on the results. Progesterone helped me a lot with my mood - but it took a few months to really be effective in that part and I had to take it sublingually because if I would swallow it, I would get tired. Also only micronized real progesterone is having that effect, not the derivatives like medroxyprogesterone and all those other "progestins"

Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2016, 03:26:37 PM
Ok - it was just a thought. Many endocrinologists aim at very low serum levels of T and decirbe it as optimal if it is very low, but young women have actually quite a bit of T - usually close to the upper limit of the range the lab prints on the results. Progesterone helped me a lot with my mood - but it took a few months to really be effective in that part and I had to take it sublingually because if I would swallow it, I would get tired. Also only micronized real progesterone is having that effect, not the derivatives like medroxyprogesterone and all those other "progestins"

Hi!

Yes I know ! I tried micronized progesterone as well. And I use hormone patches instead of pills. Because I have been feeling miserable for such a long time I tried a lot of different things.

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 17, 2016, 02:12:12 PM
It feels like, no matter what I do. It will never be enough.

Sorry for sticking my nose in, but I have a couple of questions, if that's okay?

What would you consider "enough", sweetie? What, in your own mind, would make you happier, do you think?

Quote from: Sephirah on October 17, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Sorry for sticking my nose in, but I have a couple of questions, if that's okay?

What would you consider "enough", sweetie? What, in your own mind, would make you happier, do you think?

To be able to be a woman and live the life of a woman because I am one.
Now I feel like a sorth of hermaphoditos archetype, someone that gets strongly associated with trans-porn, in short someone that is everything except a woman(no offence!).
I dont need the world to validate me...or a stranger in the street...just one or a few others where I feel safe enough to truely be myself without feeling like a clown or a tragedy, a ladyboy or a sex object for use. I want to be able to be feminine and a woman when with others and get that basic respect (friends and partners feeling proud instead of afraid and ashamed of me being trans) and not be just someone's projection of what they would like me to be.

In short I want to love myself and find myself through deep soul connection with others.

There is this really important video...of eartha kitt. Explaining this..

She says: I want to fall in love with myself through the connection with the other. To find oneself in the other.

https://youtu.be/IGYwf7e_cr8

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 17, 2016, 04:11:15 PM
To be able to be a woman and live the life of a woman because I am one.
Now I feel like a sorth of hermaphoditos archetype, someone that gets strongly associated with trans-porn, in short someone that is everything except a woman(no offence!).
I dont need the world to validate me...or a stranger in the street...just one or a few others where I feel safe enough to truely be myself without feeling like a clown or a tragedy, a ladyboy or a sex object for use. I want to be able to be feminine and a woman when with others and get that basic respect (friends and partners feeling proud instead of afraid and ashamed of me being trans) and not be just someone's projection of what they would like me to be.

Do you have that in your life at the moment? People you trust and feel comfortable with who don't see you how you feel they should do? How do they treat you, sweetie?

I edited my post.

I have had a boyfriend for a few years but never met friends and family and online dating attracts ->-bleeped-<-s that want things from me I dont have and cant give. Woman a lot of the times are very concerned with their own insecurities about womanhood and project a lot of their own frustration with life and men on me which makes female bonding really difficult as well which contributes to this feeling of isolation.

I am hypersensitive to moods and reactions of other people which is not helping. I sense when I am accepted or misunderstood in a heartbeat. Its like a 6th sense. One I aquired when I had to survive socially as a kid. Always tryinh to read what others are feeling and thinking (reading between the lines) and getting way to good at it.

What would it need for you to not be regarded as a hermaphrodite - or even more important, what would be required in order for yourself to not see you like that?

Do you desire to be accepted as a woman in all aspects even thoough you tell the people that you are a trans woman? This would then totally depend on the others' ability to really not be influenced by stereotypes. Or can you experience this by not telling people - or do you not have a choice at this time than to tell, because some things are keeping you physically from being regarded as a normal woman?

I disagree with that quite vehemently, sweetie. I'm sorry. I don't think that loving yourself and finding yourself through a connection with others is an entirely healthy way to live your life. I think that one comes first, and then the other. You cannot, in my opinion, focus on other people until you have found yourself. And relying on them to find that for you is folly. Because you're looking at yourself through their lens, you know? Through their bias.

I kind of get what Eartha Kitt was saying in that video, but I would venture that it's placing an awful lot of trust and reliance in other people to tell you who you are, you know? Which, to my mind, is something you've spent your whole life fighting against.

If I could give you my honest opinion, sweetie, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I don't think you place enough stock in yourself as a person and as a woman. You let other people's opinions of themselves and you impact the way you live your life. I think you owe it to yourself to take power back into your own hands, and not give it to those around you. To say to yourself "This is who I am, and this is what I want. I deserve it. And I'm damn well gonna get it!"

Don't let other people define your boundaries for you. You have to define them for yourself, and then communicate that to others. You have as much right to define your life as anyone else. And you CAN do it. It's just a matter of self-belief. Which is incredibly easy to say, I know. But you have standards, and goals, and desires in life. You don't NEED anyone else to tell you what they are or to make them happen. You have the capacity to do it.

Sweetie, life only beats you down while ever you believe you deserve it. While ever you believe it's your fault. That it's something wrong with you.

It isn't.

The first step is believing that.

I know what you mean. It is why I avoided the dating market altogether. To this day I get people who are drawn just to my picture on Facebook or Skype like moth is to a flame. Eventually I did find someone who saw me for me and has allowed me to be me and I wasn't even trying to find anyone. Like you I sense and feel in regards to so many things including people. My ex boyfriend was so concerned about his insecurities that I never met his family or friends. He was ashamed of me and in the end had difficultly understanding my being intersex. Having a boyfriend, fiancé, husband, you fill the blank doesn't make someone a woman. Just being you is all it takes and nothing else to be a woman. Something beyond that has made you doubt and lose site and even your enjoyment in being a woman somewhere along the line. Sephirah is right and the fact remains that you have to believe in who you are and so many things will try and take that away from us. My fiancé allows me to be me and excepts me for who I am including all my short comings. I hope you find happiness and joy in those things that no longer bring you that anymore. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 17, 2016, 04:32:54 PM
I edited my post.

I have had a boyfriend for a few years but never met friends and family and online dating attracts ->-bleeped-<-s that want things from me I dont have and cant give. Woman a lot of the times are very concerned with their own insecurities about womanhood and project a lot of their own frustration with life and men on me which makes female bonding really difficult as well which contributes to this feeling of isolation.

I am hypersensitive to moods and reactions of other people which is not helping. I sense when I am accepted or misunderstood in a heartbeat. Its like a 6th sense. One I aquired when I had to survive socially as a kid. Always tryinh to read what others are feeling and thinking (reading between the lines) and getting way to good at it.

Quote from: Sephirah on October 17, 2016, 04:47:32 PM
I disagree with that quite vehemently, sweetie. I'm sorry. I don't think that loving yourself and finding yourself through a connection with others is an entirely healthy way to live your life. I think that one comes first, and then the other. You cannot, in my opinion, focus on other people until you have found yourself. And relying on them to find that for you is folly. Because you're looking at yourself through their lens, you know? Through their bias.

I kind of get what Eartha Kitt was saying in that video, but I would venture that it's placing an awful lot of trust and reliance in other people to tell you who you are, you know? Which, to my mind, is something you've spent your whole life fighting against.

If I could give you my honest opinion, sweetie, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I don't think you place enough stock in yourself as a person and as a woman. You let other people's opinions of themselves and you impact the way you live your life. I think you owe it to yourself to take power back into your own hands, and not give it to those around you. To say to yourself "This is who I am, and this is what I want. I deserve it. And I'm damn well gonna get it!"

Don't let other people define your boundaries for you. You have to define them for yourself, and then communicate that to others. You have as much right to define your life as anyone else. And you CAN do it. It's just a matter of self-belief. Which is incredibly easy to say, I know. But you have standards, and goals, and desires in life. You don't NEED anyone else to tell you what they are or to make them happen. You have the capacity to do it.

Sweetie, life only beats you down while ever you believe you deserve it. While ever you believe it's your fault. That it's something wrong with you.

It isn't.

The first step is believing that.

I appreciate that you are trying to help and your words feel warm and sincere. However, I have the feeling that you assume that Im doing it wrong or going about it the wrong way.

I do not let others define me (how could I have transitioned ?), I did find myself, know exactly how and who I am, have accepted that I am a woman and trans.

I am just very dissapointed with how many people view and treat transwoman.

I set my own bounderies. I have learned not to compromise but it hasnt resulted in a fullfilling life as a woman. Im still alone. Sorth of feeling isolated, in part just like I felt when I lived as a boy.

I care not that I pass or am stealth. I care for deep relationships and friendships as a woman and this is pretty hard without compromising what I know and feel I am.

Thats why I said...no matter what I do...it never seems good enough for me to attract fullfilling friendships and relationships apart from transfriends.

I dont enjoy being a woman as an isolated individual experience. Have done so all my life and it is not enough for me...its too 1 dimensional. The reason I transitioned is not to become, i was a woman already. It was to become a woman for others.

I care not for the mirror. I care to be myself socially physically and romantically.

But it feels Im stuck as trans and cant get passed it.
Not because of the way I think of myself...but because of the way others think about transwoman.

The kind of men that would match with me never would give me a chance.

And it takes a courageous woman to acknowledge my existence (most of the time something only possible for woman who are entirely happy and content with their own love and sexlife).

Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2016, 04:43:28 PM
What would it need for you to not be regarded as a hermaphrodite - or even more important, what would be required in order for yourself to not see you like that?

Do you desire to be accepted as a woman in all aspects even thoough you tell the people that you are a trans woman? This would then totally depend on the others' ability to really not be influenced by stereotypes. Or can you experience this by not telling people - or do you not have a choice at this time than to tell, because some things are keeping you physically from being regarded as a normal woman?

I dont see myself as a hermaphrodite but other people can make me feel like one because of the way they treat me.

Somehow I get the feeling people here respond that Im to blame for the way others see mee. But no amount of magical thinking can change that.

I see myself as a woman and love myself for it but contact with others costs me a lot of energy because im forced into understanding that its an isolated experience.

Which is why I spent a lot of the time alone. On the other hand...it has happened sometimes that I felt accepted and acknowledged which resulted in a tremendous amount of energy and happyness.

Something that I have a hard time cultivating by myself alone.

I have heard it all before. You have to accept and love youraelf first etc. Well; I have.

I simply acknowledge that I need others to be able to be and feel more happy then I am now.

I dont feel this is weak. I feel that to be very strong and realistic. Im not denying my needs which I believe are totally natural.

About being stealth. Even though i know that most people I meet dont suspect Im trans. But when it gets to friendships and relationships I dont believe in secrecy .

And I dont get off by someone I have no connection at all with regarding me as a woman.

It just makes life easier. But I dont get a thrill out of it. Why would I care what the man or woman on the street think about me?

In my opinion, given the world and the way it is, the "trans narrative" gets in the way of the truth -- that who I am is unambiguously female.  "Trans" is transitory.  A place to stay on the way to getting where I was going.

Of course, to live this way means having any markers to the contrary unambiguously excised. 

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 18, 2016, 11:59:00 AM
In my opinion, given the world and the way it is, the "trans narrative" gets in the way of the truth -- that who I am is unambiguously female.  "Trans" is transitory.  A place to stay on the way to getting where I was going.

Of course, to live this way means having any markers to the contrary unambiguously excised.

True but I dont see myself having deep friendships and relationships and being able to keep this a secret. Even if I did srs. Its not something I will be able to hide. And would I feel comfortable hiding it?

I shave every day. I have a body that is androgynous...i went through male puberty. Even though I pass . how long would I be able to hide it?

For me its not a realistic option to choose.

Well, its a dilemma and I think it is a common one. If you tell people you "are trans", it invokes a litany of preconceptions and stereotypes which makes it almost impossible for many to just treat you as a normal woman, because in their mind you are not - you are at best a woman who has a transsexual past, at worst they consider you a man living like a woman now. This is sad, but it is true for most people except a very few exceptions, I believe.

The alternative others choose is to not tell and be "stealth" - then people do not know and do not behanve differently. But some trans women feel like they are hiding something then and feel the urge to tell those getting a bit closer. Maybe because they also want to talk about this topic to someone?

This is hard and I am not sure how to do it myself. I also feel like it SHOULD not be an issue to talk about it if it comes up - in a better society it would maybe not be. But this is not working now. What I think may work is to think of yourself not as hiding some truth that others are eligible to know. I am a woman. I was not "born a man" or "did a gender change" or something like that. I am a woman and thats it. Now about those parts of my past that are "trans", some of these things do not come up unless I want to. No one will ask me out of the blue if I had a genital surgery or had hormone therapy. Why would they ask this to a woman. If I talk about myself, I see no need to talk about these things - they are intimate, not just private. Most friends of you will not talk about having had a appendectomy at age 12 or a corrective nose surgery at age 16 because of their breathing difficulties - unless this topic comes up someway. So I can have a conversation with friends and this never comes up. I tell them I was horsebackriding with my sister in the vacations when I was a kid, what I did in school, what I did at home - even if it is not always the most girly teenage past, it is reasonable and I do not feel the need to refer to me as "he" when I talk about my past. There is little that is completely off about my past.

Now the problem of course comes when the trans topic hits the conversations. When others talk about it, want my opinion on it, etc - or when friends start to share intimate details - or when one gets close enough with a partner that intimate details are exchanged. I guess at that point there is no escaping the choice to either lie, remain silent or come out. I keep hoping these moments will be few.

EDIT: Of course it is my luck to have "passing privilege" and I am not forced by my body anymore to come out unless I want to. If this is the case, the choices would be different, obviously.

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 18, 2016, 12:33:16 PM
True but I dont see myself having deep friendships and relationships and being able to keep this a secret. Even if I did srs. Its not something I will be able to hide. And would I feel comfortable hiding it?

I shave every day. I have a body that is androgynous...i went through male puberty. Even though I pass . how long would I be able to hide it?

For me its not a realistic option to choose.

It's certainly not a realistic option to choose while transition is incomplete.  How long does it take?  As long as it takes.  I had two years of electrolysis to stop shaving, for example.  A tremendous amount of surgery.  Long hours working on my voice.  I did all this precisely so no one would ever broach the subject with me.  Today, no one else takes that initiative in my life, and I'm certainly not going to, either. 

It's like being in high school.  When you're in high school, it dominates your life.  Several years after graduation, it's not something I ever needed to talk about, and really no one talks about getting their high school diploma.  It's just something we ultimately let go of.  (And no, I don't do high school reunions.) 

As anjaq says, this is passing privilege -- but even if you don't possess that privilege, you don't have to be the one to initiate such conversations.  And you can be completely honest about it -- because your truth is that you're a woman, that the "college of transition" was such a painful process you prefer not to talk about it, if the person who brings it up isn't kosher with this then there's no more relationship to be had. 

It amazes me how easely one can disregard something that is so essential in the eyes of others.

Did you really have to tell? At one point?? Can you endure the dissapointment in the eyes of the other? And when it comes to friendships...the sense of betrayel?

Do you have any experience with this?

You all make it sound so easy but its not.
Did you al start early in childhood???

I pass.  I even live in a town where nobody seems to know Im trans. But how on earth can you hide it in close friendships...let alone relationships...

It really amazes me!!
Its not just about being stealth its about your concern for the other.

It makes me wonder how long you been living as a transwoman and if its not wishfull thinking.

Would you honestly start a relationship and not tell??

And honestly Ive know a lot of transwoman who were convinced they werr living in deep stealth...even when I noticed people noticing them on the streets.

That so called passing privilage is for the young and lucky few mostly.

And even when I truely seen to pass...its not something I boast about and it does not make it possible for me to keep hiding to close (boy) friends.

Perhaps I suffer from too much sanity.

Music interlude -- you New Yorkers will get the detailed references, but you don't have to be from NYC--the names and the places change but the scene is the same!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulZcRN9j_cw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulZcRN9j_cw)

No, I am not stealth. I do generally pass. Women ask me for tampons, doctors if I am pregnant or if I have my menstruation regularly. But many people know because it goes around and in some cases I talked about it. Most of my doctors know, my best friend know because I knew her early in transition, ... But I do not want to see the disappointment in the others if I tell - so I try not to tell. I think the concept that being trans is something that others are entitled to know if they want to be close to us is a strange one. Where does this entitlement come from? Why is it a big betrayal and lack of trust and so on, if I do not tell this part of my life - compared to maybe something like having had breast augmentation, or cis women getting genital beautification surgery, or having stolen stuff as a teenager and been sentenced to public service.
Most Cis people seem to somehow assume they are entitled to know this intimate detail about us if they are closer to us than a random encounter on the street. Is this justified?

I think a partner eventually has to know. I would tell him all of the other things above as well. This is particularly hard to find the right moment to come out to a partner.

And yes, I think a lot of trans women are having wishful thinking about being 100% stealth. I know that I am not, but I enjoy those areas of my life where it is so and I do not intend to destroy this by coming out and consequently not being asked anymore for a tampon or experience how conversation topics shift away from menstruation, childbearing and menopause when I enter the group because it is "girl talk" (and thus not something to share with a ->-bleeped-<-). I hate that it is like that but see no way out.

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 19, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
It amazes me how easely one can disregard something that is so essential in the eyes of others.

No one else gets to choose this for me.  And I, for one, don't believe there's such a thing as "essence."

QuoteDid you really have to tell? At one point?? Can you endure the dissapointment in the eyes of the other? And when it comes to friendships...the sense of betrayel?

Do you have any experience with this?

You all make it sound so easy but its not.
Did you al start early in childhood???

I pass.  I even live in a town where nobody seems to know Im trans. But how on earth can you hide it in close friendships...let alone relationships...

It really amazes me!!
Its not just about being stealth its about your concern for the other.

It makes me wonder how long you been living as a transwoman and if its not wishfull thinking.

I haven't been living as a transwoman.  I've been living as a woman since my early thirties, since I got everything done, and now I'm approaching fifty.  I have never told anyone post-transition about my medical history, and have never been asked about it, either, not by anyone who didn't know me before.   

I do know what it's like, though, to be challenged on this, and how the conversation can go.  Pre-SRS.  Dating a man.  When it got hot and heavy, and I had to back off.  He had detected stubble while kissing (my mistake), and put out the question.  And so we talked.  And no, he wasn't interested in going any further.  He was freaked out, mostly about what it "said" about him and his sexuality and his identity.  He came back a couple months after SRS, but I wouldn't have it.

It feels dehumanizing, to be so suddenly "othered."  It was incredibly dysphoria-inducing, because at that moment he was misgendering me, not with his words but with his attitude, his reaction, his emotions. 

So no, I don't tell, and I've done everything in my power to make sure it's something that anyone would ever think of bringing up in the first place.  It was not easy!

QuoteWould you honestly start a relationship and not tell??

I've had ten lovers post-everything.  No one has asked.  One relationship went six years, and the longer it went, the easier it got, and the more it proved to me that this is what I wanted all along.  He met my parents several times, by the way.  They are impeccable, and fully support my choices. 

I've had dozens of friendships post-everything.  Many still ongoing, even though they're long distance due to work-related relocations.  No one has asked. 

I'm work with the public, a new job long after transition.  I talk to thousands of people face-to-face every year.  It doesn't come up, and I'm a top performer. 

Here's the thing.  This is not something that other people want to know.  They would prefer not to know.  It makes everyone's lives easier.  It's the most considerate thing I can do.

So I never tell.  It's one of the best decisions I've ever made. 

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
No one else gets to choose this for me.  And I, for one, don't believe there's such a thing as "essence."

I've been living as a woman since my early thirties, since I got everything done, and now I'm approaching fifty.  I have never told anyone post-transition about my medical history, and have never been asked about it, either, not by anyone who didn't know me before . . .

Here's the thing.  This is not something that other people want to know.  They would prefer not to know.  It makes everyone's lives easier.  It's the most considerate thing I can do.

So I never tell.  It's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

I think back when I was a child. The concept of "transsexual" did not exist. Now it does. I knew as a child that when I grew older, I wanted simple to blend in with other women, the way it should have been in the beginning.

Not saying that I am right and everyone else is mixed up--just saying that there are other options.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
No one else gets to choose this for me.  And I, for one, don't believe there's such a thing as "essence."

Agreed. But in the same way you do not get to decide what is essential for others.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
I haven't been living as a transwoman.  I've been living as a woman since my early thirties, since I got everything done, and now I'm approaching fifty.  I have never told anyone post-transition about my medical history, and have never been asked about it, either, not by anyone who didn't know me before.   

I do know what it's like, though, to be challenged on this, and how the conversation can go.  Pre-SRS.  Dating a man.  When it got hot and heavy, and I had to back off.  He had detected stubble while kissing (my mistake), and put out the question.  And so we talked.  And no, he wasn't interested in going any further.  He was freaked out, mostly about what it "said" about him and his sexuality and his identity.  He came back a couple months after SRS, but I wouldn't have it.

This is exactly the reason Im open about being transgender. To avoid these kind of painfull situations. However that comes with a price. On the other hand I would not be able to relax and would worry if a partner would find out. Even post op. The problems Im experiencing in this area are never related to my genitals. Once I am post op...nothing has changed this situation for me. I would still feel uncomfortable and unsafe hiding it.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
It feels dehumanizing, to be so suddenly "othered."  It was incredibly dysphoria-inducing, because at that moment he was misgendering me, not with his words but with his attitude, his reaction, his emotions. 

I know how that feels. Its exactly the pain I experience now because Im open about my being trans.

Everything is fine...but the moment I mention it.  Everything changes. This is also true for most woman and almost all people. Everything is normal but once I mention Im trans the whole dialogue changes and the way Im treated. I find this very sad and frustrating and dehumanizing.

It also makes me angry at times. Once I mention it everything I am seems to be judged as if I in reality am a man thats pretending to be something he is not. While I am always myself. I did not need to learn to speak feminine...to act feminine or to think feminine...it was all always there which resulted in a lot of social pain and bullying in my younger years. Back then my femininity was at least regarded as authentic.

Now when Im mention I am TS I feel people try to see masculinity and try to judge that as real...while everything I naturally am is suddenly considered "learned" or "not real".

I find this very frustrating and painfull and it makes me angry. Because I am very authentic...there is nothing fake about me!!

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
So no, I don't tell, and I've done everything in my power to make sure it's something that anyone would ever think of bringing up in the first place.  It was not easy!


I've had ten lovers post-everything.  No one has asked.  One relationship went six years, and the longer it went, the easier it got, and the more it proved to me that this is what I wanted all along.  He met my parents several times, by the way.  They are impeccable, and fully support my choices. 

I've had dozens of friendships post-everything.  Many still ongoing, even though they're long distance due to work-related relocations.  No one has asked. 

I'm work with the public, a new job long after transition.  I talk to thousands of people face-to-face every year.  It doesn't come up, and I'm a top performer. 

Here's the thing.  This is not something that other people want to know.  They would prefer not to know.  It makes everyone's lives easier.  It's the most considerate thing I can do.

So I never tell.  It's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

I agree about people not wanting to know. However when it comes to very close friendships and relationships I tend to disagree with you.

We would never think of writing on this forum If we were not trans. In the same way... Being trans is part of who I am...and if I want a deep connection with the other it is a part of me that needs just as much acceptance as the fact Im not less then a woman. Hope that makes sense.

Quote from: anjaq on October 19, 2016, 05:06:03 PM.

And yes, I think a lot of trans women are having wishful thinking about being 100% stealth. I know that I am not, but I enjoy those areas of my life where it is so and I do not intend to destroy this by coming out and consequently not being asked anymore for a tampon or experience how conversation topics shift away from menstruation, childbearing and menopause when I enter the group because it is "girl talk" (and thus not something to share with a ->-bleeped-<-). I hate that it is like that but see no way out.

Well to avoid those subjects a coming out is handy. Personally I realy dislike those conversation subjects.. And avoid woman whose sole purpose in life is menstruation, child bearing and raising children. I find it incredebly boring.

Maybe Im too considerate. When I talk to people and they get close I cannot help but wonder if they would be so open if they knew I was trans.

This has not made life easy for me. Its even better for me to avoid people nowadays because I just dont know how to deal with this.

I dislike exposing myself but I also feel uncomfortable in close relationships when people not know.

Its the reason i have created a wall around me. Because I find the whole situation complicated.

And then there is the question about safety. I feel safe living stealth and do not want to become the talk of the town. Let alone attract the attention of haters.

Its a real dilemma for me.
All this stuff really keeps me from enjoying my life as a woman.

Quote from: Anothergirlsparadise on October 20, 2016, 03:57:01 AM

This is exactly the reason Im open about being transgender. To avoid these kind of painfull situations. However that comes with a price. On the other hand I would not be able to relax and would worry if a partner would find out. Even post op. .  .

I would still feel uncomfortable and unsafe hiding it.


I know how that feels. Its exactly the pain I experience now because Im open about my being trans.

. . . Everything is normal but once I mention Im trans the whole dialogue changes and the way Im treated. I find this very sad and frustrating and dehumanizing.

I agree about people not wanting to know. However when it comes to very close friendships and relationships I tend to disagree with you.

We would never think of writing on this forum If we were not trans. In the same way... Being trans is part of who I am...and if I want a deep connection with the other it is a part of me that needs just as much acceptance as the fact Im not less then a woman. Hope that makes sense.

Trans is an identity. A construct if you will. As I suggested earlier, it certainly is legitimate and in an era, a couple centuries back, without HRT, BAS, FFS, SRS, and electro, being in between was as good as it got and that's where I would have likely ended up if I survived.

Fast forward to the 20th century and that alphabet soup of treatments made transsexing possible.

Now in the 21st century, with blockers and medical intervention prior to puberty, yet another step is taken to live authentically at an earlier age and the construct of transsexualism is less needed than centuries ago or even in the 20th century.

We may fast be approaching a time when transsexualism will no longer be a waypoint--an oasis.

Maybe the day is around the corner where all this needless suffering will finally be behind us and the kids coming up won't have to do the constant 'splaing.

I'm 54 and nowhere near passable at this point. I have yet to start HRT and haven't looked into surgery yet. I do plan all the above at some point. To stay sane I'm basically presenting as feminized. I wear light makeup and very sheer nail polish. I'm growing my hair out, it's in a kinda long pixie type style right now. I shave my arms, legs and pits. I wear perfume and use feminine hygiene products. I sport a cute purse, (that helps a lot). I do get a lot of strange looks and even stared at in public, but I'm me and that's what counts. I have a great support network. I'm also alcoholic and have a wonderful supporting AA group. The cis girls there welcome me and give me tips and advice. I also go to a local trans support group. That is the best thing I do for my sanity. There I can talk out loud about my trials and tribulations. There is something about talking out loud. Things lose their power and hold over me when I talk about them. With all that said, it is tough to think about love and finding someone. I love men too, mostly strait men. I've looked around a bit at the LGBT AA meetings, but most of those guys don't really do it for me. I was talking with some of my cis girlfriends the other night after a meeting and we were talking about "being swept off your feet". I just thought about it for a moment and said "I REALLY want to be swept off my feet!". One of them looked and me and smiled. She said I was blushing and had never seen me do that before. I realized then that I still have hope, hope that I will one day pass, be complete and find "Mr. Right". I have to have that hope. In the meantime I also have to love my journey. Every step is making me into the woman I know I am. When the mean girls and tough guys are staring me down in Walmart I remember that, give a nice wave and strut off knowing I know who I am. I rambled a bit, but that is how I keep my way.

Quote from: anjaq on October 19, 2016, 05:06:03 PM
No, I am not stealth. I do generally pass. Women ask me for tampons, doctors if I am pregnant or if I have my menstruation regularly. But many people know because it goes around and in some cases I talked about it. Most of my doctors know, my best friend know because I knew her early in transition, ... But I do not want to see the disappointment in the others if I tell - so I try not to tell. I think the concept that being trans is something that others are entitled to know if they want to be close to us is a strange one. Where does this entitlement come from? Why is it a big betrayal and lack of trust and so on, if I do not tell this part of my life - compared to maybe something like having had breast augmentation, or cis women getting genital beautification surgery, or having stolen stuff as a teenager and been sentenced to public service.

That sense of entitlement is a consequence of privilege, I think.  It is not a privilege I will to acquiesce to.

QuoteAnd yes, I think a lot of trans women are having wishful thinking about being 100% stealth. I know that I am not, but I enjoy those areas of my life where it is so and I do not intend to destroy this by coming out and consequently not being asked anymore for a tampon or experience how conversation topics shift away from menstruation, childbearing and menopause when I enter the group because it is "girl talk" (and thus not something to share with a ->-bleeped-<-). I hate that it is like that but see no way out.

This is the society that we currently live in.  Which, we should remember, is not the same society that women had to navigate fifty years ago.  It will eventually change, at some point.  Until then, we adapt to the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

There was a Neil Gaiman short story many years ago about a magic pill that cured cancer, but it had the side effect of completely rewriting your DNA such that a sex change was effected.  Of course, its use became rampant in society.  People would live longer and longer, switching back and forth, and at first there were rules in place to try and identify the switchers -- to keep a fixed gender identity in place.  But eventually, those who never took the pill became a distinct minority, and eventually died out.  Switching was normal, understood, and so of course no one had to say anything about it.

That's what "normal" is -- men and women don't have to tell the world they're men and women, and straight people don't have to tell the world they're straight.  It's either apparent or assumed. 

Now, I don't have illusions about the so-called 100% experience.  I'm still in relationship to my family, for example, and of course they know full well -- and they know full well the relationship will end if they're not impeccable, because I won't put up with anything stirring my dysphoria.  I am in relationship with a few women as deep or deeper into a post-transition life as I am, but because we all know what it's like it's actually properly intimate, not estranging.  And of course a couple doctors know, in order to provide proper health care.  In all these spheres, confidentiality is explicitly expected. 

Most of my life is lived outside these spheres. 

QuoteI think a partner eventually has to know. I would tell him all of the other things above as well. This is particularly hard to find the right moment to come out to a partner.

I don't know.  Does coming out in this context lead to greater intimacy, or does it create distance?  It really depends on your partner.  For the vast majority of partners, I think it does more harm than good to the relationship. 

And the thing is, no one ever gets a perfect partner, except in fairy tales and rom-coms.  There are things I'd tell my girlfriends that I'd never tell my lover, and vice-versa.  And I'm sure there's plenty he'd never share, and frankly I probably wouldn't want him to.  We are so often different people in different contexts.  It doesn't have to be uniform across every sphere.  I am not the same person at work than I am at a family gathering, than I am hanging out with friends, than I am making love, than I am sitting home alone on a Thursday night watching TV. 

So why the compulsion to tell a partner, when they're already doing everything right?  Perhaps, to allude to the words said not too long ago by a wise woman, all it takes is letting go.  Once transition is over, just let it go.  "Trans" was a useful identity during that period, made it possible to survive, but it too is a construction that we don't have to hold onto.

Who we are exists only in the present.  The past is long gone, and the future has yet to arrive and even then it will be transitory.  So how about trying just staying in the Here and Now?

Sophia Sage,

I admire you for your strenght.
I feel that on one level I completely agree with you,
But on another; I simply will not have the strength to do it.
I shave every day...not because its very visable...but Im a blond and the blond hair are hard to remove without scarring the skin. The darker ones I have had removed. I pass...and I am accepted...I should be thrilled....but in the back of my mind I always feel like cinderella...as if everything can be taken away from me again. Its like I dare not trust my luck.

I also have noticed that I have not accepted myself as a woman as weird as that may sound. But I am really working on it. At one level i have accepted it...and my mind has accepted it. But allowimg myself to be a woman is still very difficult. I lose contact with myself very easely.

I feel traumatised by everything and exhausted. But Im also proud. Of who I am and how far Ive come. Im still alive!!! And I am a very nice girl. (I know I am!).

Thanks for sharing your lives. Hope to read more.

Its been 10 years and Im still not used to being trans.
It feels like a war raging in my mind every day.

I never have seem to get to that point of letting go. 
Always surviving...now for almost 40 years and I have veen wondering why and for what.

I try to accept myself as a woman but that still make me hate being trans.

I do feel somewhat alone in this.
Its like others find their way but I never get used to it

Ive tried repressing it...disctracting myself....reflecting on the suffering of others but it keeps haunting

Past years there were times that I got dangerously close to ending it...

I worked my way through it...but its always there...it always comes back.... And Im so tired !

I think maybe some investments on your persona will come in handy. You described yourself as "plain almost borderline ugly", "no interest in shopping", etc.

That raised kind of a red flag to me. As RuPaul's says, "If you don't love yourself...". You know. I think some investments on your persona will be great. Maybe pampering yourself (maybe nice shape, cosmetic surgeries, nice clothes, good cosmetics, neat makeup) can help you at being, not just at ease, but really happy with who you are.

External validation is always nice, but you may take almost all input received with a grain of salt. I mean, If a guy who knows nothing about you nor about transsexuals reacts to you telling you're "an impersonator"... Why you should (or anybody) give him credit? I mean, he doesn't know you, he can't know for real.

Building a nice social network made of people who is aware of your trans status might be a good idea. You're going to receive positive and valuable feedback from them. Also, this network could bring you interesting dating opportunities, for example, or interesting social opportunities.

Also, keep in mind that "ciswomen life" is not a fairy tale. I've met lots of transgirls who thought that "living the life of a cisfemale would be a dream" just to stumble upon the fact that actually it's not. Has its ups and downs, very much like transgirls life.

The fact that I look plain makes me pass and thats comfortable. The more I start investing in clothes (small budget and money I like to spend on other things), the more attention I get...the more attention I get...the more people read me as Ts.

As for cosmetic surgery; havent got the budget ...but im alao afraid of looking "fake"
At least I look natural now.

What you are telling me is very superficial. I like to move about with the least effort.
When I date I of course look the part.

But in daily life I like being plain and invisible. I dont like to look like someone who had FFS. FfS often makes even ciswoman look like transwoman

And I really dont care what Ru Paul says...always disliked the guy.

Well I guess if your actual strategies worked that good for you, you shouldn't be asking for advice ;D

Quote from: Wednesday on October 24, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Well I guess if your actual strategies worked that good for you, you shouldn't be asking for advice ;D

I get to decide what advice fits. And I see a lot of bragging in the thread from people who really did NOT understand what I was actually writing about.

Being a woman is not about FFS, SRS...following Ru Pauls dressing advice or being plastic fantastic....and its not a performance.. Nor is it a competition !!! It certainly is not living your life in disregard of the feelings of other human beings. This is MY VIEW. I carry myself.

And I carry any other transwoman who tries to live the life of a woman (and not a performer) without hiding or lying.

Thank you very much