Hello community it has been awhile. I actually originally wrote something very long, then a better question came to my mind.
Where are the generally accepting areas to live in? They live and let live attitude. I personally have no issues with anyone as long as they are respectful or don't bother me at all. Yet where are countries, states, etc where this attitude exits?
I also ask because I've recently been thinking seriously about investigating going to college overseas (not right away), and the places I've looked at are England. A test I took also pointed out countries such as Norway, Sweden, Switzerland. I also am investigating Germany, Italy. This is due to a heavy interest in languages and wanting to take that to the next level and also gain experience in certain regions aside from coursework.
if you live, or know of any of these area,s what is the climate like for a person who is friendly, open, yet generally minds their own business? If I were to be in the transitioning process, but made no fuss about it or drew attention, what would are the possible reactions I could face? Normal or outrageous.
Thanks for any of your replies, and this is asked as a kind of way to choose where I want to lean as a secondary place. England is always going to be my first choice, but I'm open to other possibilities.
I find cosmopolitan areas to be more open-minded, in general, as long as they're economically thriving. Also, liberal arts college towns. Not so much rural areas or suburbs.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 18, 2016, 04:27:07 PM
I find cosmopolitan areas to be more open-minded, in general, as long as they're economically thriving. Also, liberal arts college towns. Not so much rural areas or suburbs.
For rural or Suburb areas, is more a possible matter of issue even one keeps to themself? Or would that also be something that would kind of cause a curiosity? I don'r have much experience, yet living rurally, but I understand that rural and suburbs have a kind of tight knit community that goes on. That's mostly what I understand about them, but maybe in each area this is a bit different.
Quote from: SlateRDays on October 18, 2016, 04:42:25 PM
For rural or Suburb areas, is more a possible matter of issue even one keeps to themself? Or would that also be something that would kind of cause a curiosity? I don'r have much experience, yet living rurally, but I understand that rural and suburbs have a kind of tight knit community that goes on. That's mostly what I understand about them, but maybe in each area this is a bit different.
It's easier to keep to one's self in suburbia, because suburbia is designed so you don't have to interact much with other people. But typically the next-door neighbors will engage in low-level interactions, as you're sharing a property line.
In my experience, it's more difficult to keep to yourself in rural areas, for while they're typically tight-knit communities, they really want to know who the new person is and why they just moved in. If you keep to yourself, you'll just stir up more curiosity, and perhaps resentment.
In cosmopolitan areas, they'll be grateful you keep to yourself so they won't have to deal, there's enough going on already without having someone
else to have to interact with. However, cosmopolitan areas tend to be more worldly, and that has its own issues -- people are more adept at reading other people.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 18, 2016, 04:57:03 PM
It's easier to keep to one's self in suburbia, because suburbia is designed so you don't have to interact much with other people. But typically the next-door neighbors will engage in low-level interactions, as you're sharing a property line.
In my experience, it's more difficult to keep to yourself in rural areas, for while they're typically tight-knit communities, they really want to know who the new person is and why they just moved in. If you keep to yourself, you'll just stir up more curiosity, and perhaps resentment.
In cosmopolitan areas, they'll be grateful you keep to yourself so they won't have to deal, there's enough going on already without having someone else to have to interact with. However, cosmopolitan areas tend to be more worldly, and that has its own issues -- people are more adept at reading other people.
I appreciate your sharing this bit of information as it's giving me something to consider. I definitely have a rural urge in my bones, but there is honestly something to say about being in the city and then that mid-way point.
When I was in New York for a odd visit last year, I found that, I enjoyed visiting and driving rural, and then going to the city areas, enjoy this kind of busy charm, I found my comfort ,when staying there for a little bit, was being in the mid-way. Not tight city, yet not rural, and definitely not urban or suburban. Does that make sense? I felt like I could silently be myself, and some were polite and others weren't bothered, but didn't fuss me. It was an interesting experience. Homely, and unbothered. Of course I would still enjoy making friends, but it would be in a way where we meet naturally, versus anything that is forced.
I hope that kind of make sense. Thanks again for sharing!
I live just outside London and it's quite accepting of lgbt people. I've had no problems; even when holding hands with my gf at the time pre T. We seem to have a live and let live; mind our own business mentality in the UK. London housing is very expensive though but it's a lot cheaper up north. The waiting list for gender identity clinics are long but free so that's good. There's some gatekeeping but from what I've heard the process speeds up once you've gone to your first appointment and they mostly follow WPATH.
Norway, Sweden and Switzerland I would imagine would be accepting of LGBT people too. Plus the Scandinavian countried have social care and a high standard of living plus rank high for happiest countries. But a lot of gatekeeping bs; have to see multiple psychiatrists. If you're non white you may get racist remarks now and again. They're very white countries and don't have a lot of mixing.
I wouldn't choose Germany because of the migrant issue and racial tension atm. If bombings could happen in France and Belgium it's likely something similar could happen in Germany. Although again seems accepting of LGBT people.
Not sure of Italy.
Hope this has been helpful :)
Quote from: Elis on October 18, 2016, 05:56:46 PM
I live just outside London and it's quite accepting of lgbt people. I've had no problems; even when holding hands with my gf at the time pre T. We seem to have a live and let live; mind our own business mentality in the UK. London housing is very expensive though but it's a lot cheaper up north. The waiting list for gender identity clinics are long but free so that's good. There's some gatekeeping but from what I've heard the process speeds up once you've gone to your first appointment and they mostly follow WPATH.
Norway, Sweden and Switzerland I would imagine would be accepting of LGBT people too. Plus the Scandinavian countried have social care and a high standard of living plus rank high for happiest countries. But a lot of gatekeeping bs; have to see multiple psychiatrists. If you're non white you may get racist remarks now and again. They're very white countries and don't have a lot of mixing.
I wouldn't choose Germany because of the migrant issue and racial tension atm. If bombings could happen in France and Belgium it's likely something similar could happen in Germany. Although again seems accepting of LGBT people.
Not sure of Italy.
Hope this has been helpful :)
Thanks so much Elis for sharing. I figure if I put my heart and soul into my work, and remain a decent, but honestly imperfect person, I could garner respect from that. Sort of like a Star, no matter their race, they have a certain level of respect. But saying that, it's something to add to consideration.
I'm curious about what you said about the bombings though. If you get the chance, could you pm about that? I'm not keeping up with media and things these days, because there's so much going on in my own life.
One that I had also been curious about is the Brexit situation from a month or so ago. If it's ok, I'd like to talk about that in pm. I just have so concerns I'm not sure about.
Thanks for sharing!
Oh, and finally, cosmopolitan areas are much richer in the resources we typically need for transition!
It really depends on what you want. If you wish to stay in the states, San Francisco/Bay area is about as open as it gets and the climate is cool but mild. Next in line would be the Los Angles area which is a bit warmer but still pretty accepting. Both of these areas have regions where languages other than english are commonly spoken. My personal favorite but it may not be yours is the Phoenix area as I am a bit of a Desert rat. I have been around the western portion of the country and have never had any difficulty dealing with people and they have always treated me with respect.
Quote from: Dena on October 18, 2016, 06:51:08 PM
It really depends on what you want. If you wish to stay in the states, San Francisco/Bay area is about as open as it gets and the climate is cool but mild. Next in line would be the Los Angles area which is a bit warmer but still pretty accepting. Both of these areas have regions where languages other than english are commonly spoken. My personal favorite but it may not be yours is the Phoenix area as I am a bit of a Desert rat. I have been around the western portion of the country and have never had any difficulty dealing with people and they have always treated me with respect.
I had considered Cali and even Arizona, but the cost of living in Cali was a bit of a deterrant. The heat in Arizona might be hard for a cold weather goat like myself (Capricorn, winter loving, kind of guy lol).
Having said that, I know Cali's a melting pot of of individuals, and probably all along the coastal states. I checked out Minnesota as an option and they seem to have a bit of variety as well, but not sure about the cost of living etc. That'll be my stop if necessary, before pursue University overseas.
Quote from: SlateRDays on October 18, 2016, 07:08:39 PM
I had considered Cali and even Arizona, but the cost of living in Cali was a bit of a deterrant. The heat in Arizona might be hard for a cold weather goat like myself (Capricorn, winter loving, kind of guy lol).
Depending on your interests, Flagstaff at 6,000 feet and Northern Arizona University may be more to your liking. People with a bit more money tend to have cabins in Flagstaff or Prescott and use them to escape the heat in the summer or for a winter like retreat around the holidays.
I live about an hour south of Seattle, in Olympia, which is home to Evergreen College, an extremely liberal, liberal arts college. When I went to the local community college through a state program that covered tuition for qualifying teens, I noticed there were a number of trans folk on campus. This would have been 2000-2003. I had fellow trans folk in some of my classes, and other people were very accepting and encouraging. One class, my trans woman classmate (it's been so long I forget her name), announced before class started that she just got approved for HRT and the entire classroom applauded and cheered for her.
These days, walking around town, I see a lot of non-normative folks in gender and fashion style. I wear my hair in short dyke-ish cuts in unnatural colors and I get a lot of comments from folks who stop to tell me how awesome it looks. As a general rule, being trans here isn't that unusual, and hate crimes get taken seriously -- and are rare.
There are issues in Seattle with gentrification and the parts of the city that have historically been queer/trans have had the rent prices raised for the IT crowd that's coming here as Silicone Valley 2.0. It's still pretty welcoming but the cost of living is getting ouchie. It's a lot cheaper here, and I know more than one person who works in Seattle but lives here and works from home part time so they don't have to commute daily, just because of the price difference.
Hi there! I'm currently living in germany, and loving it. Before i was living in Holland, and I consider both countries LBGT friendly. From what I've read online, it's a lot better over here than on your side of the pond.
As for Europe as a whole, i guess there are nicer countries and ->-bleeped-<-tier ones. From my experience, the east is the worst. People there haven't had as much exposure to LBGT issues and that leads to more hostility.
The south (latin countries) is a bit better but they're still quite religious. Also, the further to the south you go, the more macho people seem to get.
Perhaps I'm biased, in coming from the northern/western corner myself, but I don't think I'd be very far from the truth if I were to state its generally easier for us here. Just my 2 cents :)
Quote from: Dena on October 18, 2016, 08:36:57 PM
Depending on your interests, Flagstaff at 6,000 feet and Northern Arizona University may be more to your liking. People with a bit more money tend to have cabins in Flagstaff or Prescott and use them to escape the heat in the summer or for a winter like retreat around the holidays.
Now Flagstaff seems like a little gem, as I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to my list of considerations. Arizona in general is a little up there in price isn't it? Or is it depending on where you are?
Quote from: Vervain on October 19, 2016, 01:21:40 AM
I live about an hour south of Seattle, in Olympia, which is home to Evergreen College, an extremely liberal, liberal arts college. When I went to the local community college through a state program that covered tuition for qualifying teens, I noticed there were a number of trans folk on campus. This would have been 2000-2003. I had fellow trans folk in some of my classes, and other people were very accepting and encouraging. One class, my trans woman classmate (it's been so long I forget her name), announced before class started that she just got approved for HRT and the entire classroom applauded and cheered for her.
These days, walking around town, I see a lot of non-normative folks in gender and fashion style. I wear my hair in short dyke-ish cuts in unnatural colors and I get a lot of comments from folks who stop to tell me how awesome it looks. As a general rule, being trans here isn't that unusual, and hate crimes get taken seriously -- and are rare.
There are issues in Seattle with gentrification and the parts of the city that have historically been queer/trans have had the rent prices raised for the IT crowd that's coming here as Silicone Valley 2.0. It's still pretty welcoming but the cost of living is getting ouchie. It's a lot cheaper here, and I know more than one person who works in Seattle but lives here and works from home part time so they don't have to commute daily, just because of the price difference.
Seattle sounds like the old New York from the 70s i believe. Lots of diversity, acceptance, but moderate cost of living. I'm going to add this to the list along with the suggestion for Flagstaff from Dena. Thanks so much for sharing!
Quote from: elineq on October 19, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
Hi there! I'm currently living in germany, and loving it. Before i was living in Holland, and I consider both countries LBGT friendly. From what I've read online, it's a lot better over here than on your side of the pond.
As for Europe as a whole, i guess there are nicer countries and ->-bleeped-<-tier ones. From my experience, the east is the worst. People there haven't had as much exposure to LBGT issues and that leads to more hostility.
The south (latin countries) is a bit better but they're still quite religious. Also, the further to the south you go, the more macho people seem to get.
Perhaps I'm biased, in coming from the northern/western corner myself, but I don't think I'd be very far from the truth if I were to state its generally easier for us here. Just my 2 cents :)
I had a feeling that the Latin countries may be like this and I can understand it in a way. I definitely leaning more Europe, but for getting started in the meantime, I'll be investigating all my other options. I'd love to transition in Europe, but I want to start fresh when I get there. Literally a grand recreation process!
I live in the greater Washington DC area. It's nice here. Very accepting people, lots of options for school, a clinic that does HRT via informed consent, and quite a few surgeons within easy distance.
Quote from: SlateRDays on October 19, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
Now Flagstaff seems like a little gem, as I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to my list of considerations. Arizona in general is a little up there in price isn't it? Or is it depending on where you are?
Arizona is still a bit slow recovering so prices most of the time are within reason. I am at the edge of the city and I have a 2000 square foot house that is valued at about $200,000. If you move into town a bit the prices go up.
Prices in flagstaff may vary depending on the time of the year. The Snow Bowl is a huge tourist attraction so the some of the prices for housing may go up in the winter. You would be best to lock your housing price in the early spring or summer when people are fewer.
I live in Flagstaff and find the people quite accepting for the most part. The cultural attitude is rather bohemian and laid back.
On the down side, the cost of living is a little bit higher than Phoenix and there are no resources for trans people. I have to go to Phoenix for electrolysis, therapy or an HRT doctor.
Quote from: FTMax on October 19, 2016, 06:44:44 PM
I live in the greater Washington DC area. It's nice here. Very accepting people, lots of options for school, a clinic that does HRT via informed consent, and quite a few surgeons within easy distance.
This makes me so happy! My best friend lives out in Fredricksburg, VA and I've been thinking about moving somewhere between there and DC.
I live in Minnespolis. I still mostly look like a guy, but last weekend I was looking through some women's clothes in a booth at the farmers market. A guy from the next booth over (possibly part of the same set up) saw me and said they have a mirror if I wanted to try anything on.
The greater Washington DC area also has a large number of great schools - AMU, George Mason, Virginia Tech, UMD, UMUC and a bunch more. This is also a really good area to work with a ton of good jobs. And I agree, a very accepting area with many great resources.
Only drawback: cost of living is on the higher end.
Quote from: sarah1972 on October 20, 2016, 12:27:26 PM
The greater Washington DC area also has a large number of great schools - AMU, George Mason, Virginia Tech, UMD, UMUC and a bunch more. This is also a really good area to work with a ton of good jobs. And I agree, a very accepting area with many great resources.
Only drawback: cost of living is on the higher highest end.
Fixed that for you ;)
I'm from Norway and I've yet to come across a transphobic person. Were some "transphobia" in middleschool but I wouldn't really count that because nobody really knew what it was, just threw words around.
Quote from: SlateRDays on October 18, 2016, 05:42:26 PM
I appreciate your sharing this bit of information as it's giving me something to consider. I definitely have a rural urge in my bones, but there is honestly something to say about being in the city and then that mid-way point.
When I was in New York for a odd visit last year, I found that, I enjoyed visiting and driving rural, and then going to the city areas, enjoy this kind of busy charm, I found my comfort ,when staying there for a little bit, was being in the mid-way. Not tight city, yet not rural, and definitely not urban or suburban. Does that make sense? I felt like I could silently be myself, and some were polite and others weren't bothered, but didn't fuss me. It was an interesting experience. Homely, and unbothered. Of course I would still enjoy making friends, but it would be in a way where we meet naturally, versus anything that is forced.
I hope that kind of make sense. Thanks again for sharing!
For instance, Jennifer finney boylan lived in a rural area in Maine and did well. She taught at a small college. New England is more liberal than a lot of the country though. The downsides of living in NY or SF is the cost of living. It's insane. I've heard Minneapolis is a good compromise. Maybe others can tell about a few more.
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Quote from: Dena on October 18, 2016, 06:51:08 PM
It really depends on what you want. If you wish to stay in the states, San Francisco/Bay area is about as open as it gets and the climate is cool but mild. Next in line would be the Los Angles area which is a bit warmer but still pretty accepting. Both of these areas have regions where languages other than english are commonly spoken. My personal favorite but it may not be yours is the Phoenix area as I am a bit of a Desert rat. I have been around the western portion of the country and have never had any difficulty dealing with people and they have always treated me with respect.
The summers are tough though. I've been here four years and I'm not used to it yet. Maybe I never will. I haven't had much exposure here to know one way or the other insofar as acceptance goes. I bet it depends on where one lives in the state. I live way east valley and it's a bit polarized when LGBT issues come up in the local paper.
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Quote from: SlateRDays on October 19, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
Now Flagstaff seems like a little gem, as I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to my list of considerations. Arizona in general is a little up there in price isn't it? Or is it depending on where you are?
Seattle sounds like the old New York from the 70s i believe. Lots of diversity, acceptance, but moderate cost of living. I'm going to add this to the list along with the suggestion for Flagstaff from Dena. Thanks so much for sharing!
I had a feeling that the Latin countries may be like this and I can understand it in a way. I definitely leaning more Europe, but for getting started in the meantime, I'll be investigating all my other options. I'd love to transition in Europe, but I want to start fresh when I get there. Literally a grand recreation process!
It depends on where you come from. I lived in New York for 40 years and then moved to Iowa and lived there for nine years. Arizona is more expensive in Iowa but less than New York. I have two daughters that are going to college in Flagstaff and it seems like a groovy town. I'd rather live in Flagstaff then where I live now in the far east valley of Phoenix, but my job and my wife's job or here in the valley.
I appreciate all the great answers and info so far. It's giving me a lot to look up. It's going to be a step by step process. A slow hop - hop until I reach over the water. The very least I'd do before making any journey over is to change my name on my documents, etc legally. It'll be a fresh start once I figure a way through my current situation. I have to time to research, study hard to put myself in a good position.
Quote from: Daisy Jane on October 20, 2016, 08:20:45 AM
This makes me so happy! My best friend lives out in Fredricksburg, VA and I've been thinking about moving somewhere between there and DC.
I live in Minnespolis. I still mostly look like a guy, but last weekend I was looking through some women's clothes in a booth at the farmers market. A guy from the next booth over (possibly part of the same set up) saw me and said they have a mirror if I wanted to try anything on.
Minneapolis - St. Paul is actually an area high on my more immediate list. I actually have a lot of info, therapists, apt, etc all listed and compressed (3 x 3 x 3). Minnesota from what I could tell from researching last year, is the most progressive state to a certain degree. You seem to have a lot of services to offer, low-income housing, and also inexpensive apartments.
Because of circumstances, I'm working on making a slower hop to something local, maybe middle or late 2017, then get organized, then hop to my next location, then work on a way to apply to college over the water and showcase what skills I have been working on in that "spare" time.
Quote from: kanad3 on October 20, 2016, 12:47:48 PM
I'm from Norway and I've yet to come across a transphobic person. Were some "transphobia" in middleschool but I wouldn't really count that because nobody really knew what it was, just threw words around.
I've actually added Norwegian, self-study materials to my line-up since I started this thread. If I can find more learning materials, and I can discovered if Norway is a strong possibility, I'd be ahead of the game.
What is education like in Norway?
Quote from: SlateRDays on October 18, 2016, 03:23:05 PM
Where are the generally accepting areas to live in? They live and let live attitude. I personally have no issues with anyone as long as they are respectful or don't bother me at all. Yet where are countries, states, etc where this attitude exits?
Fairly accepting here in England, UK for the time being for trans. We don't have any bathroom bills here far as I'm aware. People here tend to this attitude on the whole as well. If others don't impose or disrupt stuff we generally won't mind them at all.
QuoteI also ask because I've recently been thinking seriously about investigating going to college overseas (not right away), and the places I've looked at are England. A test I took also pointed out countries such as Norway, Sweden, Switzerland. I also am investigating Germany, Italy. This is due to a heavy interest in languages and wanting to take that to the next level and also gain experience in certain regions aside from coursework.
if you live, or know of any of these area,s what is the climate like for a person who is friendly, open, yet generally minds their own business? If I were to be in the transitioning process, but made no fuss about it or drew attention, what would are the possible reactions I could face? Normal or outrageous.
From my experience I've never had any transphobia come my way at all. But I can't say there aren't going to be bigots here and there. They exist in every country somewhere. If you keep away from trouble areas, rough places at night, don't attract too much attention, etc. I doubt you'll encounter many deliberately obnoxious people. Student campuses and cities with large student populations (I studied at Bangor, Coventry, and Liverpool for example) are more accustomed to people of different backgrounds and usually could care less.
But you should keep away from certain areas, just in general, even if you're a cis person. You'd get to know the problem areas from others living in a particular area if you mix and speak to people about these things. Depends on where you go. Every town or city has it's "bad places" or places you're more likely to be mugged or whatever.
You could of course face a variety of reactions mid-transition, ranging from people treating you like everyone else, to others not really noticing or caring about it, to people who feel they have something to say about the matter but on the whole we Brits tend to hold our tongues unless we're drunk, and then we can be fairly obnoxious. But it's rare to have someone just blurt out something offensive to a stranger unless they're a chav kid or something. And even then they'll only tend to do that if they have the safety of three or four other kids in a pack. Gangs of bored-looking teens might say or shout something in an effort to impress their mates. You're not statistically likely to encounter worse than that here, though, if you're mindful of your surroundings and don't enter into fights with people. Sticking to student areas or campuses and you'd probably never even see a gang of such kids.
I suppose certain incidents related to Brexit haven't cast us in a good light recently regards immigration, as it's largely been interpreted (incorrectly I might suggest) that there's massive hostility to outsiders here. There actually isn't that much, it's a very tiny minority who jumped at the chance to be awful to other people. The vast majority of people here are perfectly fine with anyone coming here to study, and in the big University cities the populations are accustomed to seeing all sorts of people come and go. But, the Brexit issue is still ongoing and we are are still somewhat "aware" of the mood following it, so I should mention it.
I think it's wise to examine the laws protecting transgender people in an area. Specifically, check to see if the local laws protect against discrimination based on gender identity for housing, employment, and public accommodations.
For example, in the state of Wisconsin, your landlord can evict you from your home simply because you're transgender - but not because you're gay. In neighboring Michigan, your landlord can evict you either for being trans or gay. And in neighboring Illinois, both gays and transgender people are protected from housing discrimination.
Visit http://www.hrc.org/state_maps for a state-by-state breakdown, if you plan to live in the USA.