sorry to keep going on about spironolactone but did anyone ever shed more hair than usual while starting spironolactone,you see i have been on spiro for 1 month now and i am shedding about 200 hairs a day and my hair is a lot worse that it was before starting spiro,i am also on avodart which i have been on for 9 months and that has not helped 1 bit,my hair is the most important thing because although i am not ready yet i will become a woman in about 3 or 4 years ,although i will have to move countries i live in england at the moment and plan to move to spain,thge reason i have to move countries is because nobody has any idea and it would upset family,getting back to the hair loss issue ,did anyone shed on spironolactone then after that there hair got better,please help
I noticed that since starting Spiro 5 months ago and Avodart 4 that I have been losing much more hair. I was hoping that it was just a case of temporary shedding but now I have doubts. Frankly it doesn't sound promising. My hair sends me into severely depressive fits at least 3 times a week. If it doesn't improve I dont know what I am going to do.
Wish I could help but I am having the same issues.
Charlotte
PLEASE, I hope no one takes offense at this, BUT...
I sometimes wonder if the "shedding" is more a result of over-analyzing one's progress every day, obsessively counting every hair looking for changes? Many people on a hair loss forum I once belonged to reported the same thing, and it seems like they all spent hours every day studying their hair loss problem.
There's a similar thing where people beginning HRT often report that it's making them look more MALE (m2f) in appearance, when in fact they're simply probably more conscious of their existing maleness because they're so anxious for changes.
Apologies if this sounds like "you're just imagining things," as I don't mean to dismiss everyone's very valid concerns. Maybe it DOES cause shedding, I really don't know. But self-perception can be SO misleading sometimes, BELIEVE me, lol...
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on November 03, 2007, 11:45:05 AM
PLEASE, I hope no one takes offense at this, BUT...
I sometimes wonder if the "shedding" is more a result of over-analyzing one's progress every day, obsessively counting every hair looking for changes? Many people on a hair loss forum I once belonged to reported the same thing, and it seems like they all spent hours every day studying their hair loss problem.
There's a similar thing where people beginning HRT often report that it's making them look more MALE (m2f) in appearance, when in fact they're simply probably more conscious of their existing maleness because they're so anxious for changes.
Apologies if this sounds like "you're just imagining things," as I don't mean to dismiss everyone's very valid concerns. Maybe it DOES cause shedding, I really don't know. But self-perception can be SO misleading sometimes, BELIEVE me, lol...
~Kate~
I have thought about that myself and frankly it may be the cause of my increased worry. Frankly my hair loss is my only major concern as far as my transition goes. It is however something that has been so personally devastating and has eaten away at my self confidence to such a degree that it puts me in stages of severe depression. My family just thinks I am overreacting when I try to explain HOW much it bothers me. My brother for example tells me "Well, I am losing my hair." It seems like he doesn't get that as a male I could just shave my head and forget about it, but transition kind of changes the dynamic.
I have done the wig thing and I really don't like it one bit. I am sure nobody does however a wig makes me feel more self conscious than wearing a bandana or headscarf on my head. I am sure one way or another that I will find a way to deal with it, but it just feels so final when I look in the mirror.
Charlotte
Quote from: dean1972 on November 03, 2007, 11:11:20 AM
sorry to keep going on about spironolactone but did anyone ever shed more hair than usual while starting spironolactone,you see i have been on spiro for 1 month now and i am shedding about 200 hairs a day and my hair is a lot worse that it was before starting spiro,i am also on avodart which i have been on for 9 months and that has not helped 1 bit,my hair is the most important thing because although i am not ready yet i will become a woman in about 3 or 4 years ,although i will have to move countries i live in england at the moment and plan to move to spain,thge reason i have to move countries is because nobody has any idea and it would upset family,getting back to the hair loss issue ,did anyone shed on spironolactone then after that there hair got better,please help
I'm surprised you have managed to get Spironolactone while living in England. It's not a common drug over here. I've never been able to access it or know what the benefits might be over my present anti- androgen (Androcur, Cypretone Acitate). I think it is an issue for some and although I haven't shed any hair personally, my friend has who has been on the same medication has experienced clumps of her hair falling out in the bath or shower on a regular basis..
Hormones and anti - androgens generally make hair finer but it doesn't usually decrease or fall. Body hair becomes less and I've found my nails are far more brittle than they used to be.
You could always try a different anti - androgen and find one that's more compatible with your own genetic system..
This is wired because I have felt like I have been shedding more hair than before HRT too. I don't know if it's just me or if something else is going on. I have however had new hair growth in the front hairline so I was not that concerned about it before hearing other are having the same issue. I almost am never able to run my fingers through my hair and have no hair caught in them.
Remember it ISNT always from DHT-- ppl always blame that.
I'm not a medical genius but let me give you some cues
You see you have to think Logically.
-Spiro is a diruetic(typo), it takes out all of your water in the system, adjusts blood pressure, AND makes skin dry!
-So it could possibly be from not drinking enough water, dry scalp and blood circulation to the scalp.
Now HRT can cause some stress and depression.- this can cause chemical imbalances- this can cause hair loss(temporary loss)
To fight depression and stress take vitamin B-6 and B-12. Vitamin C is depleted by estro which needed for hair growth and estro's metobalization. Take protien(not too much).
do cardio work for 45 minutes 4 days a week- it will bring oyxgen to the scalp, circulate estro better- thus estro can go to the scalp area. So if the AA's and hormones circulate more it's logical to say that testo would drop and so would DHT.
Avoid shampooing your hair more then 4 days in a week- as this dries the scalp.
Go in a Indian Supermarket(trust me) and buy Coconut Hair Oil, Almond Hair Oil, Henna Hair Oil.- i bought a Indian Hair oil that has Henna, Coconut Oil, Some herbs and Fenugreek which is good for male pattern baldness.
Now take these oils and massage your scalp for like 10-15 minutes with it- don't just put it on your hair, massage your hair roots and scalp with the oil- put lots of it!- Now these oils are greasy so put it on night with a towel on the pillow. Wake up in the morning and if it's the day to shampoo then shampoo it. If it's not the day to shampoo then just rinse your hair with water very well.
I reccommend you put this oils in small amount on your hair for dryness during the day and I recommend to massage this on your scalp at night.
Avoid curling irons, blow drying, Hair gels, hair sprays and coloring your hair.- these have chemicals and the heat from curling irons as well as blow drying dries the scalp.
You should not smoke, drink, drugs etc-common sense!
Try to get 8 hrs of sleep or more!
You could try Rogaine(I heard you have to keep taking it though)- perhaps Propercia.
So again- all the stuff I listed here is common sense!- It's knowlegde that you have which you need to apply.
Good luck and I hope you have gorgeous hair- its terrible for a women to go bald.
Hi Dean
Well both my partner and I are on spironolactone and have not had any problems with hair loss. The only problem I have had is thinning of the fingernails so that I need to get my nails done every two weeks.
Cindy
The only hair that I lost on spironolactone came from my body. I have none with the exception of pubic hair. I don't have hair under my arms and I don't shave my legs.
The hair on my head is the same as it was before I began HRT. It was always baby-fine and it still is, it just grows faster.
Wing Walker
Quote from: cindybc on November 03, 2007, 08:31:20 PM
Hi Dean
Well both my partner and I are on spironolactone and have not had any problems with hair loss. The only problem I have had is thinning of the fingernails so that I need to get my nails done every two weeks.
Cindy
Same here my nails break more now.....but I don't ever get my nails done or anything like that..
Quote from: Tanya1 on November 03, 2007, 03:41:31 PM
Remember it ISNT always from DHT-- ppl always blame that.
I'm not a medical genius but let me give you some cues
You see you have to think Logically.
-Spiro is a diruetic(typo), it takes out all of your water in the system, adjusts blood pressure, AND makes skin dry!
-So it could possibly be from not drinking enough water, dry scalp and blood circulation to the scalp.
So should I start putting lotion on it? :icon_yikes:
Okay this is the thing.
As new hairs come in, they do push out old hairs, so shedding continues.
My personal experience is my hairline has improved substantially, but shedding has continued because of this process.
Most people do not understand that there is a natural shedding process to hair when its healthy. Its when it doesn't grow back that there is a problem.
My experience may not be yours, but it is pretty common.
Hi Berliegh
I have to have artificial nails put on and acrylic fill over them. My natural fingernails are cigarette paper thin and the possibility of getting seriously hurt is quite a possibility. I am not certain if it has anything to do with estrogen or not. I only noticed them getting like that in the last couple of years and that was after SRS. What in tarnation would SRS have anything to do with it? The estrogen is like that though, it can change much or parts of your anatomy you wouldn't think of..
The good thing is, I got eyebrows tattooed on yesterday. the lady who did them did a really good job. I guess I need to get a new pic of me to put on line. ;D
Cindy
I was under the impression that thinning nails and potential hair hazards were progesterone based. After a few months of estradiol tabs and spiro my hair improved with in terms of being softer, a bit more shine and filling the hairline. My nails however, still break at about the same rate as before starting HRT. :( ~A~
Edit: Removed dosage info ~ Kate
Lower testestosterone leads to
dryer skin and more brittle nails, lower libido, etc.
Progesterone that has some androgenic qualities.
So, it leads to skin that is less dry (but not
as oily as with T) and less brittle nail and
stronger libido. It has also many other effects,
it doesn't have an effect only on the breasts.
The best ones is bio-progesterone or
less expensive, but has most of the same
qualities as P, duphaston (the best of the progestins,
so synthetic derivatives of progesterone).
isnt Spiro supposed to cause hair on the head to become thicker, and fuller.
Your shedding is most likely old hair falling out, it should eventually thicken and fill, or as a few said other skin drying out meds.
I've figured with any medication the first three months of taking it while your body adjusts to it, can be problematic. I suffered the same problem. From feb 2010 I started noticing handfuls of hair in the shower and my ponytail halved in size, but with new front line growth still coming in slowly.
I considered and blamed several different things before it finally got better. three months have pasted since feb and I'm only just noticing a decrease in shedding.
I had switched to androcur late year but the gap made me think it wasn't that.
I started taking saw palmetto december/january just before my first abnormal blood test result.
I'd read that there are links between saw palmetto and hyperprolactinemia, as I developed that after seeing the next blood test results.
SO now I was really confused, what was it? A combination of different things?
Everyone is different, some people react to certain products others are fine.
It could be anything really, for me my doctor was thinking the saw palmetto, but really *shrugs*.
If your hair comes good again after a few months and you have nothing to point a finger at it could just be a reaction to starting a new drug that could get better with time or require a change.
OR it could be ............ o_0
I didn't have any real problems with losing hair. I had a little more shedding than usual but now that I have been off spiro (less than a week) I now only have a few folicles in the shower by the end of it so it seems to be returning to normal.
Isn't olive oil good too?
yeah and so is the omega 3 from raw fish guts, but that can get a bit smelly lols.
For practicality I use organic shampoo that doesn't have any harsh chems in them and then afterwards I rinse my hair with apple cider vinegar diluted in water as a final rinse that I leave in for a few minutes.
ACV helps cleanse and keeps your scalp free of bacteria and it also balances your hairs pH which helps close the cuticles which improves strength, shine and smoothness. I would never not use APV, it's become a part of my life not just in the bathroom but kitchen and laundry as well! ^___^
One of the things which few people seem to remember is that whist T can directly cause MPB hairloss E. also has its own effects, and they may not be helpful to hair already weakened by MPB.
When you get male pattern baldness what happens is that the hair follicle blood supply is basically clogged up by deposits of DHT causing the haro to weaken and die.
However estrogen causes hair to grow finer - male T pumped hair is coarser and has more body to it. Female hair is closer to the fine pre puberty hair that we all once had.
Now think what happens when a hair already in the early stages of being weakend by DHT deposits starts to revert to the fine female hair type. That's right - it becomes so weak that it breaks before it reaches any length!
And that folks is why in the early stages of HRT you may indeed get some additional hairloss. Sadly, in our current state of medical knowledge there isn't much that can be done other than to hope that it doesn't go too far.
On average compared to the hair lost what is the percentage more of new hair or regained hair from being on HRT?
I'm sucking with words recently uuummm if you have say for example 50-100 hairs a day falling out to begin with (of the coarser T hair) and 80-120 a day falling out during the first year of HRT, considering all the new hair and follicles that have been reactivated. What amount of total hair would you on average be losing 2-3 years after beginning HRT?
Do you still on average come out with more hair then you ever had originally?
The short answer is that there is no definitive answer.
All the E. does is stop MPB from progressing any further - so you will have more hair left because the progression has been halted.
The residual hair loss is just those hairs which had already gone beyond the point of no return so to speak, but because of the coarsening effect of the T. were just about clinging on. A bit like a drug addict whose body chemistry is so screwed up that they are now only being kept alive by the very thing which is slowly killing them!
As regards having more hair than you had originally no! You never actually gain hair by going onto female hormones. You just don't lose any more once the residual loss has stopped.
It is usually possible to bring some of the hair back form the dead by using DHT scavengers and other drugs like Rogaine and Finasteride. These clear the blocked blood supply to the follicles and can revive some of them, but for best results they need to be started right away.
On average Women have, if anything finer and thinner hair than a comparable male who is lucky enough to be unaffected by MPB.
Happily I have never had any hair loss myself. I know about all this because I read up on it when a very close friend of mine (no names no pack drill) at one stage had to use Rogaine to restore some of her thatch.
I think Jenny probably has the best explanation for this, along with Muffin's 'giving the body time to adjust to the new meds' comment.
.
But as to the OPs original question:
I also had some difficulty the first 3 months of HRT with this. I have a 'spot of difficuty' on my crown that can be difficult at times to cover. While I didn't count hairs, I did notice that it seemed a bit more difficult to hide than usual after 3 months of HRT...and was kind of worried about continued hair loss. (Rogaine did nothing for me, so if HRT didn't stop the recession...I wasn't really sure what to do.)
.
I'm now almost at the end of 5 months on HRT, and it seems to be a little better than it was 2 months ago. The 'spot of difficulty' is still there, but it doesn't seem as difficult to cover. While it's probably wishful thinking, there may be some small new growth there. :) One can only hope. Though, I did notice that when I changed my hair color from an undyed medium brown to a medium-auburn-brown...the lighter color makes the gaps more difficult to see...so that has probably helped too.
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[pic removed]
I just came off Spiro after 3 years(don't have anything to create any T anymore)and have a full head of long hair that went very fine during the process and have the sides of my peak have been slowly filling in the whole time. I have been on depo and progesterone for 3 years and oral before that.
Sorry for the intrusion, new here and all, but I found this post interesting as I have been lurking the hairloss boards around like a spider in heat.
When you are changing the hormone balance in your body you can expect to see shedding to begin with. It is actually a part of every hair growth regiment out there. It is even said that the more you shed to begin with the increased chance you'll get more growth back as the follicles are now switching phases(anagen, telogen and whatever their name is). The reason a lot of men give up on their treatments is because they get scared because of the shedding, but if they were to just persevere it might actually have worked for them.
The simplest way to describe it is that your current hair, just like your current skin(before HRT) is built up on a body that is accustomed to a different hormone. When you switch over the hair also has to switch over and to many people's fear it is more visible than the skin you shed when it starts to align itself to a different hormone in the system. Remember that hair is a slow grower so if you want to see regrowth you won't see it in a month or two unless you're one of the lucky ones. Some regrowers didn't see regrowth until they had been doing stuff for a year or so.
I might also add that there are two types of estradiol(just like there are two types of DHT) and recent research has shown that the estradiol-beta can inhibit growth while the other one encourages it.
So if you're shedding you should only worry if it continues for months to years and there is no sign of it coming back(despite your actions). In that case there might be other problems like your thyroid, insulin resistance and more, and then your best choice would be to evaluate your diet and see if you're eating something that your body is intolerant to.
This is just a general description of what is going on on the hairloss forum. There is more, but these are the major highlights.
Also, if you want to try to speed growth there is currently some word that miconazole nitrate can boost hair growth. Both men and women have reported increased growth with it, but it doesn't seem to work for everyone. Note that Miconazole Nitrate is a fungi destroyer and there is hairloss associated to fungus growth in the scalp, but usually in children.
The rule of thumb that most hair growth companies go by is that you can more or less regrow hair if it hasn't been lost for more than 10 years. If it has been lost for longer you might have to go full retard and bring out the fringe stuff like dermarollers and scalp wounding. In these cases the follicles might have gone too far up the dermis due to the body dealing with it like a foreign object. However, I would never say hair is a completely lost cause since I've seen people do amazing things with the weirdest stuff. If nothing works then there are several companies that are currently working on Phase II trials that might be an answer to everyone's bald issues(regardless of gender).
Sorry for barging in like that. I'm watching the hairloss forums too closely and when I saw I could maybe give some knowledge I decided to pitch in.
i shed so much hair that I had to resort to $3500 hair transplants and still need more...pretty depressing to see the brush fill with hairs every morning no matter how gently I brushed my hair.
this seems an opportunity for a researcher to make a mark.
I am with Adalovelace while on spiro i lost a little hair at first and also took care of most of the body hair,have none under arms anymore,wife is jealous shave less than her.You have to remember that Spiro is also a anti-androgen,that is why we took it to begin with to take the maleness out of us till we had the surgery to take out the male parts and make them into woman parts!!!For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction sooooo when you start changing your bod from M to F there are reactions,some you may not like but the end of the journey is super as far as i am concerned.I wish all you ladies a great and rewarding journey!!!!
Quote from: Bam on May 25, 2010, 01:19:41 PM
I am with Adalovelace while on spiro i lost a little hair at first and also took care of most of the body hair,have none under arms anymore,wife is jealous shave less than her.You have to remember that Spiro is also a anti-androgen,that is why we took it to begin with to take the maleness out of us till we had the surgery to take out the male parts and make them into woman parts!!!For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction sooooo when you start changing your bod from M to F there are reactions,some you may not like but the end of the journey is super as far as i am concerned.I wish all you ladies a great and rewarding journey!!!!
Perseverance is the key and not only with this, but every aspect of life. :)
Lilacwoman: Are you on HRT and still shedding? If spiro isn't doing anything you can try DHT blockers instead of testosterone blockers, see if that changes anything(although I admit that I doubt it changes much).
Your problem could also be related to something else within your system and therefore not alopecia androgenetica(male pattern baldness). Could be a thyroid issue or some allergy. The thing with hair is that it is often an early warning system for some other underlying problems in the system. You could check with your doctor although I've heard that a lot of doctors tend to go straight for the MBP answer even without taking a look at anything meaningful so make sure your doctor is willing to do some work.
WHen i had shorter hair, i didn't pay much attention on hair loss because its so short u can barely see the hairs that have fallen off. But as my hair got longer, i notice more and more about the hair that i lose, because they are longer and more noticeable... My sisters' hair falls off like crazy as well, but i think this have something to do on how long your hair is and stuff like that. I got a lil paranoid but i learned not to think much about it... as itll get worse because of stress and stuff. As for supplements, i take Cod Liver oil pills and that helps with hair, skin and eyes and all that fancy stuff. Avoid using shampoo everyday as this will dry out the hair, do use a conditioner often.