For a long time I have identified with being androgyne and for the most part it has fitted me well. I have never felt male but don't really identify as being a woman. But I do feel internally that I am very feminine as opposed to being a mix of masculine/feminine or something else entirely. I have always been very driven to be not male as I was born.
Lately I have started to question what androgyne means for me. For me, androgyne has always really meant 'identifying as neither male or female'. I think this has become muddied as time goes on. Recently I've come to the conclusion that I would rather live as a woman than 'in-between' and this thought has really gained some momentum. I've had a couple mornings recently where I have woken up at 4am and just lay there thinking that I should live as a woman and felt totally at peace with that thought - an epiphany of sorts. It just seems like the most natural thing to do for me.
I've started to question whether I could be transsexual. I still don't really identify as being a women though, but this could just be that I don't really know what it would mean to be a woman, I don't seem to have that "I just know I am a girl" thing.
At this stage I am still fairly comfortable with my androgyne internal identity, but this is expanding to include a need for female presentation. Not sure if that really makes sense, I guess I'll figure it out one day.. ;). I have always felt that transgenderist fitted in that I'm not that concerned with my genetalia, but would rather live as a woman. The thing that puts me off this label is I think the common perception of the motivation for transgenderists is fantasy or fetish. I'm not motivated by either. I'm motivated by some internal need that results in dysphoria.
Thanks for reading. You don't need to make any replies if you don't want to, it was good to write something down to collect my thoughts. Having an audience helps makes things a bit more coherent.
I relate to what you are saying.
I wish I were born female but not so I can be a woman, but, somehow, it feels like my body would be more correct than it is now. It's not about genitalia either. It's more the build for me and having people at least look at me and see someone who is closer to how I feel.
I am basing this upon my own feelings, but I believe the difference between a TS and an androgyne is that some androgynes have periods of "body itch" where wearing our birth bodies are uncomfortable but not oppressingly so to the point where it might be for a TS.
Maybe if our minds were encased in fem bods at birth, we would be more comfortable than we are, but we may or may not still be androgynes. Same for some of the female bodied androgynes and male bodies. I'm having the itch as I write.
Well, back to my lab to find a cure for all this ;)
Rebis
As time goes on, your perception of your situation and identity can clarify and blur at intervals. You're just growing as a person and in the process you're learning what's going to feel best to you. We hope you find where you're happiest.
Mia and Marq
Once again Rebis has been peering into my skull and said what I feel.
I'd be more comfortable socially having been born a girl. But I'm not a girl, my body is not and my identity is not, and I'm not.
I am an androgyne (and happen to be male bodied) but sometimes there is an itch. It could well be the itch.
It really isn't that much different with me being totally comfortable with my body parts and still don't "feel like a girl" :icon_hug: So in some fashion, I do know what you mean :)
For me the <i> itch </i> lies more with my bodies processes... rather then the parts themselves..
My sense of my gender often shifts. Sometimes I go for long stretches of time without being bothered about my body, at other times, including during the last few weeks, I find myself wondering if I should just stop living in this state of limbo and transition again.
Although I feel that I might be happier with female body, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm a woman. My sense of my being androgyne isn't a blend of both genders, I'm really neither. Sometimes it's really hard to deal with this... feeling as if there is no place in the world that I belong, just floating out here on the edge of nothing.
zythyra
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 05, 2007, 02:10:27 AM
Once again Rebis has been peering into my skull and said what I feel.
and once again, after peering into your skull, I come away with an eye full of ink.
The rest of you should try peering into Pica's skull, it a pretty good distraction.
I enjoy the cotton candy rattlesnakes the best of all.
Posted on: November 05, 2007, 08:54:03 AM
Quote from: y2gender on November 05, 2007, 07:47:46 AM
Sometimes it's really hard to deal with this... feeling as if there is no place in the world that I belong, just floating out here on the edge of nothing.
zythyra
I know. Like being without the gravity which everyone else has. Or, do I mean "gravy".
Quote from: Rebis on November 05, 2007, 07:55:45 AM
I enjoy the cotton candy rattlesnakes the best of all.
Posted on: November 05, 2007,
I know. Like being without the gravity which everyone else has. Or, do I mean "gravy".
Just don't put the gravy on the cotton candy.... bleagh :P
Z
Quote from: Rebis on November 05, 2007, 07:55:45 AM
The rest of you should try peering into Pica's skull, it a pretty good distraction.
I enjoy the cotton candy rattlesnakes the best of all.
So
that's what they are? I was getting worried... :icon_rolleyes:
Anyway, yes, me too. Pretty certain that a female body would be a much better match to what's inside, but not at all convinced that that would be enough to make me a woman. It would be nice to fit in either way, but it just won't work. I'm not really trying to rebel against the gender system; 'gender drop-out' is a much better description than 'gender outlaw' or any such. I couldn't keep up with the male school curriculum and then flunked the TS entry exam.
Nfr
I'd prefer to think of it as doing very well in the gender exams, but studying something like Welsh.
I have simply given up trying to figure out what is happening. I have been off and on the label train for so long that I found I was worrying more about what color car I was riding in than where I was going.
Am I a Fluid Intergendred Androgyne floating from slightly masc to very femme? Am I a guy wishing I were a girl? Am I a girl stuck in a guy's body? Am I, Am I, Am I?????
I got tired to trying to explain, (and worry about having to explain), and just decided to be who I was (whatever the heck you want to call it). If you like me, fine, if not, fine, but in any case, what you see is what you get.
Now, if I just had the courage to wear that bright red nail polish and lipstick to the store without being "dressed"....oy vey
.....Laurry
I think I know what you mean Laurry. At some point you just have to be.
But I guess I'm still trying to figure out how I would be happiest - what I need to do. Things are not so good now, how can they be better kind of thing.
Rebis, Pica pica and Zythyra seem to echo my feelings.
I think I could look at the way Alison feels as being my 'target'. Maybe if I was born in a female body I would feel like she does.
I'm starting feel another theory coming on here... :embarrassed:
Maybe for one kind of androgyne, our identity reflects the inability to comprehend 'gender' (as in male and female). Everyone else looks like they are following these gender rules and we can't really understand why. We can see the rules, we know they are there but we struggle to naturally follow them. They don't make sense. Maybe in terms of body type this means we tend to naturally prefer the default human form, the common thread for all humans, which happens to be female (biologically I think this is sort of the case). It would make sense to prefer the default i.e. unconsciously our brains are saying "I'm a human, I don't really get gender, so I want to be the basic human type. If I am going to be furthest away from a gendered body out of what's available it would be the basic type". It just so happens that this basic form has 'gender' attached to it too. I think it is the details of the female form and function which have 'gender' attached to them which is why our vision of what our bodies should actually be like is a bit 'fuzzy',
but it is still preferable to being a modification of the human base i.e. male.
So you get people like Rebis and Pica pica that feel their male body "it is not quite right" kind of thing. They are not women but they would prefer the base human form, to have a female form. Then there is Alison who has the base form and feels happy with it, but still does not "feel like a girl".
You seemed to have summed it up admirably.
I've always felt psychological androgyny was more an inability to take deep roots in an understanding of gender. I guess me and Rebis would prefer something a bit less obviously gendered, but are mostly happy just to be alive. (Usually)
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 05, 2007, 06:42:08 PM
You seemed to have summed it up admirably.
I've always felt psychological androgyny was more an inability to take deep roots in an understanding of gender. I guess me and Rebis would prefer something a bit less obviously gendered, but are mostly happy just to be alive. (Usually)
I concur entirely.
I wish to be the default.
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 05, 2007, 02:10:27 AM
Once again Rebis has been peering into my skull and said what I feel.
I'd be more comfortable socially having been born a girl. But I'm not a girl, my body is not and my identity is not, and I'm not.
I am an androgyne (and happen to be male bodied) but sometimes there is an itch. It could well be the itch.
Me too. Except that I am female born and I am sure that I would have been much more comfortable in a male body, even though I'm not male. *sigh* Rebis, are you a mind reader? :)
(My main plus to being female? I'm not hugely tall like I would have been if I were male...my 13 year old brother is nearly 6'...way bigger than I ever wanted to be :p)
Hi Jaimey,
I have the feeling you have my body. I'm 5 feet 10 inches and I hate my height.
You know, something different has been happening to me. For years, most of the female bodied at work have been much shorter than me. I've always felt like a freak around them. In the last month, though, many of the young women being hired are my height. The other day I was standing with a couple of them and I realized I felt good because I didn't stand out with them.
I think this backs up the feeling I have that something within me needs to fit in with female bodied people.
A lot of the young men are taller than me now, and that is having the same effect as when I'm with the women. I feel more natural around the male bodied giants.
I'm sorry, I'm stealing Nicksister's thread. No more from me.
I'm a shortarse. But less short than my dad.
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 07, 2007, 08:29:25 PM
I'm a shortarse. But less short than my dad.
does being short feel right to you? or are you envious of the giants surrounding you?
being short is perfect, a little inconvenient in practical terms, but i am the correct height for my inner conception of myself.
Damn you to hell! (not) :)
I'm 5'6.5", but I'm still taller than most of my friends...I wish I were a little shorter. I'm the shortest person in my family though. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just go in and design the perfect body for ourselves?
Try being 6'2. Most of the time I'll be the tallest person in sight. :-\
My girlfriend is 5'1 with size 4 1/2 feet. I'm jealous.
I feel similar frequently. I would rather have a male body but present as gender-neutral, use neutral pronouns, and then occasionally be feminine or masculine in presentation as it suited. I own formal dresses and tuxedos. Things like that.
Quote from: Patroklos on November 15, 2007, 03:31:04 PM
I feel similar frequently. I would rather have a male body but present as gender-neutral, use neutral pronouns, and then occasionally be feminine or masculine in presentation as it suited.
Me too.
It would be handy to have a spare body to use. ;D
Quote from: Simon on November 18, 2007, 06:09:35 PM
It would be handy to have a spare body to use. ;D
I second that one Simon. I would put it out in the front yard and scare the neighbours ;)