I've been looking for people to share experiences around nerve regrowth following FFS. I found some people talking about numbness, and plenty of discussion of scarring, and it seems *everyone* talks about swelling, but almost nothing how the recovery goes (or lack thereof) after cutting the supraorbital nerve (for a hairline advance or adjustment or in general for any forehead work that doesn't use the Zukowski approach).
So if you had a hairline incision, how was the healing? How long was it itchy? Was there lots of pain? When did feeling first start to come back? Did it gradually come back across the scalp, or just all at once, or gradually over the whole area? I'm not quite sure how it works, whether nerves grow back to interact with existing neurons and neural networks, or if everything has to be completely "rewired".
Basically, I want to know what to expect and what I might have to be worried about. Here is my experience so far:
At first, I barely cared because of other issues with pain. I could tell that there was numbness, but there was so much else going on that it didn't really register.
Now after four weeks, there's close to no pain left from the surgery (just some from swelling in my chin), and the incision is just about completely healed, but I'm getting itchiness and weird shooting sensations across my scalp. It's numb, but I can feel it in the nerves anyway. I'm actually able to "scratch" when it itches by lightly massaging my forehead just below the incision. At some point I come across the damaged end of the nerve and it's like the whole top of my head is buzzing. I'm not sure I really should be doing that. But so far, I don't thing there's anywhere that I lost feeling and have regained. Nothing about it is too uncomfortable, but it's a little unpleasant, and it would be nice to have feeling there again.
Other than that, I'm very happy with the surgery. :)
When the Yahoo FFS group flourished there was lots of discussion re: numbness following surgery. People used to post for months if not years on their followup. Here, most people seem to disappear post surgery. There are a few who do, but it is a small group of the same people.
YMMV, I had coronal incision Sept 2015, still have surface numbness on the top of my head, on either side of incision. I have come to be very careful around over hanging objects. If I run into to something I find I don't notice it unless I've really hit it. I don't notice it if I just brush against it, but realize it happens because my hair ends up in my eyes. My forehead was initially numb but I've recovered most feeling there, except close to hairline.
Also, I had sliding genioplasty. My chin has some numbness, but no where else along the jaw. I did not realize how numb my chin was still until I started 5FU topical treatment on my face 13 days ago. Because I have to apply 5FU twice a day I've thoroughly touched my face more in the last two weeks than ever before. I don't wear makeup, so I never realized how numb my chin really was. My lips were initially numb, but feeling recovered within a couple weeks of surgery.
As an aside the numbness I still have has had a beneficial effect. My face is really on fire from 5FU, so I'll take what ever help I get in this area. :)
I hope this helps.
I had FFS 7 weeks ago. I had upper lip reduction and my upper lip has 90% feeling. I had mandible and chin work and the top of the skin has feeling but my gums and under my skin on the mandible and chin have a numb feeling. The fat injections are fine, lower and mid face lift is fine. The blethoplasty is fine. The orbital rims and type 3 forehead is fine. The top of my head to the incision is numb. I had forehead advancement and I gained feeling on the sides and back 50%.
Great topic!
Yeah I just had FFS a week ago. The cast came off yesterday. Numbness right now is front forehead up to just over halfway past the top of my head...and of course some parts of the nose too.
Dr D says from the get-go that numbness can go on for at minimum a year. I liked that he was up front about it at least. It's not as weird as I thought it would be (or as much) but here's hopingit heals up.
The nerves reconnecting tends to give that 'spark' the OP was talking about....though unpleasant, it's definitely a good sign.
It took about 2 years for most of the numbness to go away. It's about 80% sensate compared to pre-surgery.
Quote from: Debra on November 11, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Great topic!
Yeah I just had FFS a week ago. The cast came off yesterday. Numbness right now is front forehead up to just over halfway past the top of my head...and of course some parts of the nose too.
Dr D says from the get-go that numbness can go on for at minimum a year. I liked that he was up front about it at least. It's not as weird as I thought it would be (or as much) but here's hopingit heals up.
The nerves reconnecting tends to give that 'spark' the OP was talking about....though unpleasant, it's definitely a good sign.
I'm in my 4th day post op....
It feels numb... my whole forehead feels like I am touching someone's else face... but, just a moment ago I had some electrical shocks in my forehead. The muscle between my brows is working again.
Apparently, my doc said, it is very hard to destroy this area. This is because even when you cut brow muscles, they simply regrow. The body is very strong, and will regenerate this area. But it does take time. Oh well....
Sophia Sage — can you comment on what it felt like as the feeling returned? Did it kind of grow back from the edges of the numb area, like from the incision on back, or did the whole area gain feeling all together more or less at the same time? Did it ramp up slowly over many months or longer, or did it mostly come back in a short period (like two months or less)? And when did you start to feel any feeling at all? Was there discomfort as it returned (pain, sensitivity, whatever), or did it feel mostly normal?
Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 12, 2016, 05:16:41 PM
Sophia Sage — can you comment on what it felt like as the feeling returned? Did it kind of grow back from the edges of the numb area, like from the incision on back, or did the whole area gain feeling all together more or less at the same time? Did it ramp up slowly over many months or longer, or did it mostly come back in a short period (like two months or less)? And when did you start to feel any feeling at all? Was there discomfort as it returned (pain, sensitivity, whatever), or did it feel mostly normal?
Well, there were the occasional shooting sensations, as you've mentioned. Mostly, though, it was a very slow and gradual return of partial sensation across the whole area.
I'm trying to remember the timeline, it was so long ago... I had the hairline incision revised, actually, so it all went numb again at six months after the initial surgery. And it stayed numb for like six months (or a year?) and then in the following year it slowly became more sensate... like, maybe 50% after two years. And then gaining 10% a year for three years after that.
Kind of?
I do think there was more sensation returning before the revision, now that I think of it.
Every now and then I'd really clobber the top of my head on something, like ducking under a low doorframe, or just getting into my car, and I'd appreciate the numbness, kind of. Ooh, one time my head was blocked by a low hanging tree limb, and I didn't even realize it.
Good times.
This sounds a bit scary - so far it reads like everyone gets numbness but in some cases some of the feeling returns, but one basically has to accept numb sports or spots of reduced sensation as the price for FFS?
Quote from: anjaq on November 14, 2016, 04:50:04 AM
This sounds a bit scary - so far it reads like everyone gets numbness but in some cases some of the feeling returns, but one basically has to accept numb sports or spots of reduced sensation as the price for FFS?
On the very top of your head, yes.
Quote from: anjaq on November 14, 2016, 04:50:04 AM
This sounds a bit scary - so far it reads like everyone gets numbness but in some cases some of the feeling returns, but one basically has to accept numb sports or spots of reduced sensation as the price for FFS?
Yeah. I know a lady who had her FFS like 10+ years ago and she says even today she has limited/weird sensation on top of her head and even some of her forehead.
There are lots of nerve networks in the face and scalp that extend from the cranial nerves, sort of like the branches of a tree. If one of those tiny things is damaged in surgery, some numbness can result. They often don't fully recover, alas.
I've got a large area on my left cheek that is numb, courtesy of a cancer surgery. I look slightly lopsided because of this, combined with a drooping eyelid and brow on the opposite side. I'm hoping eventual FFS can rebalance this. (Please?)
I think it is very confusing that this sort of thing is so rarely mentioned. We all see the great pictures and people telling everyone how happy they are and if we hear something about numb spots , everyone says it will eventually heal - but I get the picture that it rarely healls really great - and more often it comes back only to a fraction of what it was before, but people are all willing to pay that price for the effect of FFS. I tried to ask about this some times but usuall people get mad at me for even asking a bit more because then they get scared of FFS themselves but at the same time they so desparately want it.
I am two months post-op as of today. While I am now mostly pain-free, I still struggle with numbness, shooting pains, weird sensations, as well as the swelling and discomfort arising from tender post-operative sites. Recovery has been slow and dearly paid. FFS is major surgery, and while it can give great results, it is not a walk in the park. I tried to convey that sentiment in this thread : https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,215448.0.html. As you said, Anjaq, I think it is a message many people would rather not hear.
I think I got great results, but my goodness it has been a hard road.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: anjaq on November 14, 2016, 04:24:38 PMI think it is very confusing that this sort of thing is so rarely mentioned. We all see the great pictures and people telling everyone how happy they are and if we hear something about numb spots, everyone says it will eventually heal - but I get the picture that it rarely healls really great - and more often it comes back only to a fraction of what it was before, but people are all willing to pay that price for the effect of FFS. I tried to ask about this some times but usuall people get mad at me for even asking a bit more because then they get scared of FFS themselves but at the same time they so desparately want it.
Well, to be frank, it really wasn't a big deal to have a small patch of numbness on the top of my head -- extending from the crown to the hairline. I mean, it's just not that important in the big picture; it's not like it hurts. And, again, after a few years most of the sensation returned -- hardly a fraction. But honestly, I would have traded permanent numbness up there for my results.
Quote from: anjaq on November 14, 2016, 04:24:38 PM
I think it is very confusing that this sort of thing is so rarely mentioned. We all see the great pictures and people telling everyone how happy they are and if we hear something about numb spots , everyone says it will eventually heal - but I get the picture that it rarely healls really great - and more often it comes back only to a fraction of what it was before, but people are all willing to pay that price for the effect of FFS. I tried to ask about this some times but usuall people get mad at me for even asking a bit more because then they get scared of FFS themselves but at the same time they so desparately want it.
I think this is why i waited 7 years to have FFS. And then I only did minimal (upper face only) work. Still hoping to beat the odds of course but there's only so much that can be done, recovering from such an invasive surgery.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 14, 2016, 06:04:07 PM
Well, to be frank, it really wasn't a big deal to have a small patch of numbness on the top of my head -- extending from the crown to the hairline. I mean, it's just not that important in the big picture; it's not like it hurts. And, again, after a few years most of the sensation returned -- hardly a fraction. But honestly, I would have traded permanent numbness up there for my results.
Well - I get the impression for some it is more and for some less that is coming back - some have 100% numb spots but they became smaller with time, others have a recovery in all the area but only to some degree.
Yet still, this is what I mean - for most of the patients it is "worth it", its "not a big deal", so they do not even mention it to others because it does not bother them so much and because they would have traded much more than this little discomfort for what they gained with FFS - for many it is the difference between seen as male or trans and be seen as female, so whats a bit of numbness in comparison. Still I find it a bit unfair to not mention it at all, as many seem to do. Because one should always have as many facts about a procedure as possible, I looked into FFS for a while and it took mayn months until I found out that there are some with permanent numbness and then many more months until I found out that it is actually a pretty common occurence to loose at least part of the sensation permanently. Before that, people always gave the impression it is only a temporary thing.
I am not sure, I would have looked so much into FFS if I had known this from the start.
I hear you anjaq. Unfortunately there is no central place for FFS experiences and reviews. In fact, this is as central of a place as any and they're talking about it here. Otherwise it means hunting down girls who may not even want to be found let alone talk about their experiences. And of course any reviews the surgeon puts on their site are going to be very positive.
I appreciated that my surgeon said from the get-go I'll have numbness. Of course they all try to play it down heh.
I had full FFS in 2013, early in the year.
I would say that 90% of the feeling has come back. I do not have any numb spots but some parts of my head definitely feel weird.
ymmv.
Sophia Sage — thank you so much for your response! And others too, I haven't read through all the replies yet.
One of the areas of confusion (here and elsewhere) is that people talk about different areas and kinds of numbness and other kinds of nerve damage as though they are the same, and they really are not, IMO.
I had contouring on my chin and jaw via incisions inside my mouth. The healing is a little weird, but there's essentially no numbness whatsoever. What numbness there is (a small area from my chin about an inch up toward my lower lip) results from the swelling, and it's not an issue. It gets better day by day, and there is feeling, just not quite 100% normal just yet. Obviously any surgery can lead to more serious nerve damage which can cause numbness, but that's I believe an unintended and somewhat abnormal complication for most procedures that don't involve a hairline incision, and the recovery from it is probably different, since we're talking about probably much smaller regions and probably not fully severed major nerves.
I also has a scalp advance in conjunction with "type-3" brow/forehead reconstruction. (That term was never used in any consultation, but you hear it around. Basically, I have titanium screws and plates in my forehead, which are completely unnoticeable.) People are talking about numbness in the forehead associated with that kind of surgery, of which I experienced none whatsoever. Zero. I could feel my forehead coming out of surgery, and the only thing that felt different was that there were some pulled muscles. (Like, literally pulled by the surgeons.) I don't understand how this procedure should, under normal circumstances, result in any numbness in that region, based on how the nerves work.
The issue I'm talking about is behind the hairline incision, about two inches on either side and stretching back four or five inches. It's obvious what the issue is when you see a diagram of the cranial sensory nerves:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Gray784.png)
Basically the nerves are cut along the hairline, and everything in green behind that doesn't work. From
Dr. Ousterhout's book (https://books.google.com/books?id=CsOATIhxpVEC&pg=PA28&dq=inauthor:"Ousterhout"+supraorbital+nerves&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKp7DNwqzQAhVK6YMKHWb_BlcQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=inauthor%3A"Ousterhout"%20supraorbital%20nerves):
QuoteTemporary numbness occurs with scalp advancement surgery because two sensory nerves, the supraorbital nerves, are unavoidably cut during the procedure. Patients will almost always experience a short-term loss of sensation in a fist-size area atop the head. Although 1 to 2 percent of these individuals may never regain their full sensation (similar to accidents and major surgery), the majority—the remaining 98 percent—will recoup normal to near normal feeling in six to nine months.
Obviously if you got an incision farther back (like what I hear regarding Facial Team) or endoscopically (Zukowski), you will not have this issue, even if perhaps you experience other complications. I had my own reasons for not choosing those approaches, but if the numbness is a major concern, they're maybe an option to consider more seriously.
Nerve regeneration absolutely happens — like, doctors reattach severed fingers and toes and worse, and nerves slowly grow back. The figure I heard is that they grow back at 1mm per year, but I don't really understand how that works -- like, do they grow out from the spine, or do neurons on both sides of the suture join together, or what? I'm not a neuroscientist or neurosurgeon, so I can't really answer. I have experienced numbness (in my big toes due to a lot of hiking in stiff hiking boots) that eventually resolved, so I know it can happen for me. But that was partial and a smaller area, so I don't know how it goes for a larger area like I'm experiencing now.
I do think it's unfortunate that this all isn't more clearly discussed, which is why I brought it up. There was a thread I found in the yahoo group archives (I think just titled "numbness") that had more personal stories, but it doesn't seem like it gets the attention it deserves. I am encouraged to hear people talking about how and when it comes back, and not just taking the word of the doctors who say it "usually" does, and the part I'm really missing is what it feels like as it starts to come back, what the recovery curve looks like, etc.
So thanks again for the responses!
To be really frank, the unfortunate part isn't that it's numb nor that the nerves produce weird sensations — that's really unnoticeable most of the time. The time it really hit me as a loss was, as I was getting better sometime last week and starting to let my hair down, my girlfriend ran her fingers through my hair over the top of my head, which is something that feels really nice and intimate, and I just couldn't feel it.
QuoteAlthough 1 to 2 percent of these individuals may never regain their full sensation (similar to accidents and major surgery), the majority—the remaining 98 percent—will recoup normal to near normal feeling in six to nine months.
From what I read, this is more along the lines of
QuoteI appreciated that my surgeon said from the get-go I'll have numbness. Of course they all try to play it down heh.
The real numbers seem to be very different. I have heard very few who say it has recovered completely, the majority says there is some changed sensation and a bigger than 1% minority says that they have totally numb sports - not huge spots like the whole forehead or the whole top of the head, but something like an inch strip behind the hairline, a coin sized spot on the head or below the lip or at the chin - something like that seems to be much more common than 1-2%.
I lost all my sensation in the breasts during breast augmentation - they also said this - its just a 1% chance that something will not come back and it just takes time and it will always recover partially - well, that was 15 years ago. I am not buying this anymore.
QuoteObviously if you got an incision farther back (like what I hear regarding Facial Team) or endoscopically (Zukowski), you will not have this issue, even if perhaps you experience other complications. I had my own reasons for not choosing those approaches, but if the numbness is a major concern, they're maybe an option to consider more seriously.
This is actually why this approach would be the only one I even consider.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 16, 2016, 12:09:25 AM
To be really frank, the unfortunate part isn't that it's numb nor that the nerves produce weird sensations — that's really unnoticeable most of the time. The time it really hit me as a loss was, as I was getting better sometime last week and starting to let my hair down, my girlfriend ran her fingers through my hair over the top of my head, which is something that feels really nice and intimate, and I just couldn't feel it.
Well, but that is what I was thinking about? No doubt the numbness is not present in your thinking all the time - I do not always feel that I do not feel my breasts consciously, but I could curse myself for having had that BA done when I am with someone who does things that most other women would find great and I just feel nothing. Its not a functional loss if sensational nerves in those areas are damaged - thats a different category, which also can happen, but that is rare (in that case it can be that a lip is drooping or an eyelid is lower than the other). But it is more that loss of the sensation that you have when touching yourself or someone else touches you.
I think often we are very focussed on how other will perceive us or how we will visually see ourselves in the mirror and this defeinitely improves with these surgeries, but I also consider touch and feeling to be important and this is why chances are that I will drop the idea of getting FFS, actually :(
Quote from: anjaq on November 16, 2016, 08:36:50 AMThis is actually why this approach would be the only one I even consider.
If you want a scalp advancement, that approach won't cut it. However, that wouldn't be a concern if you went with hair transplants.
QuoteI think often we are very focussed on how other will perceive us or how we will visually see ourselves in the mirror and this defeinitely improves with these surgeries, but I also consider touch and feeling to be important and this is why chances are that I will drop the idea of getting FFS, actually :(
Considering the very bad luck you've had in this respect, yeah, this makes a lot of sense.
I definitely don't mean to just blindly accept everything Ousterhout said there. The 1-2% figure definitely seems low, but I appreciate the clarity explaining how numbness occurs with a scalp advance, and how healing can occur. On the other hand, I think internet forums and other platforms are prone to an overemphasis on bad outcomes. I mean, just look at Yelp reviews. So we're left with a lot of uncertainty, just as with everything else in transition-related medicine. :-\
My surgeon was also very up front about the numbness, but I would have appreciated more explanation of exactly what that meant, as well as the other feelings like shooting sensations and itchiness, and how it might or might not get better, like how it would feel and what's happening medically, not just the chances that it would. It's the main thing that threw me for a loop with the surgery, the other thing being the way the insides of my cheeks and lower lip swelled up around the incisions for the jaw and chin work, not a feeling that I ever expected.
And yes, I consider the loss quite real, and something I wanted to share because it's also not something I really thought about, and it really does make me sad. I too consider it an under-recognized risk.
Quote from: anjaq on November 16, 2016, 08:36:50 AM
I lost all my sensation in the breasts during breast augmentation - they also said this - its just a 1% chance that something will not come back and it just takes time and it will always recover partially - well, that was 15 years ago. I am not buying this anymore.
Sorry to hear that. I had great results with BA with no numbness/loss of sensation. Every surgery has its risks. It is unfortunate (as I said before) how easily the surgeons play down the possibilities sometimes.....and their timing for recovery is often wayyyy under-estimated from my experience.
Well, with the BA, it was a risk - it was bad luck and bad skill of the surgeon. With FFs it seems the risks are much higher or maybe it is more like an inevitability that there is initial numbness and that it will not recover 100%, but more a matter of degree of how much will return with good healing.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 16, 2016, 10:17:59 AM
If you want a scalp advancement, that approach won't cut it. However, that wouldn't be a concern if you went with hair transplants.
I do not need much scalp advance - I just would need my corners filled in with transplants. This is something I probably am going to do in any case - FFS or not.
I don't think it's inevitable. Despite the invasive nature of the forehead surgery, other than the scalp where those two nerves are cut, I have experience no changes I could really describe as numbness, just the tenderness that goes along with swelling that alters feeling a little. With the Zukowski endoscopic approach that preserves those two nerves, I don't see any reason there should be numbness at all.
Well, that is what I meant with inevitablility - those nerves on the scalp are cut - if they grow back or not is something that would require luck and favourable conditions. the other numbness occuring seems more to be something that happens or not - I guess depending on luck and skill of the surgeon. If one has a lot of swelling or weird pathways for the nerves, it may happen more easily. But it is not inevitable, unlike that part on the scalp. However I believe some numbness on the scalp is easier to bear than if it happens on the chin or lip...
Alyssa, did you have the endoscopic surgery? I am interested if it really reduces greatly the risk of having numb spots - the swelling produced by that method seems to be enourmous though, I saw some videos and pictures - it seems not to be that minimal invasive in that respect.
No, I had the standard "type three" procedure with the scalp advance/reshaping using an incision at the hairline and resetting the orbital rim with plates and screws, along with mandible contouring at the chin and back of the jaw via incisions behind the lower lip.
I agree that the scalp numbness is not as bad as numbness on my actual face would be, and I'm glad I didn't experience any of that, except the tenderness in my chin associated with the swelling, which is taking a long time (as expected) to resolve.
In Dr. Ousterhout's book, I read that 1 to 2% of his patients experienced permanent numbness. As always, the 1% bad results are plastered everywhere on the Internet. Because who wants to report a issue that never happened?
Similar like that guy in the hospital next to me: he read a dozen anecdotes about catheter removal and "extreme pain". So he worked himself up into fear. When it eventually happened, he said: "that was it?"... of the millions of catheter removals, only a few percent report extreme results.
FFS has risks. It's not something minor. You could even die. In fact, anesthesia is a kind of temporary brain stem coma/death.
Well, I wish it would be so - that the 1-2% figure is real or that it is even less than that - but for that to be true, there are way too many reports about this on the net. But of course - if one takes it as the worst case - complete and permanent numbness of the whole area, that is probably very rare - almost all have regained some sensation - either most of the area or much of the sensation in the whole area - but the reports about people having some residual permanent numb spots or maybe a 20 or 50 or 70% loss of sensation compared to pre OP - or just a changed sensation - maybe even hypersensation. Things will probably be just different post OP, for 99.9% this is not an issue as the spots are small enough to be ignored or simply because the tradeoff is totally worth it. I would probably trade a numb spot on the scalp anytime if the alternative is to not be seen as a woman daily. Whats a bit of numbness compared to daily misgendering...
Quote from: anjaq on November 19, 2016, 08:07:00 AM
Well, I wish it would be so - that the 1-2% figure is real or that it is even less than that - but for that to be true, there are way too many reports about this on the net.
SNIP
I bet we only see 5% of the people who get FFS comment anywhere on the net. Think of all the surgeons doing FFS, most seem to do at least 1 a week, if not more. We don't see thousands of FFS patients posting annually, no where near that.
Sure - we only see a fraction. I see most of them are extremely happy with havong had FFS - only very few are not. What I found interesting though is, that those who are happy do not talk about numbness until asked about it directly. Very few openly complain about it or report it freely - But almost everyone I have contacted to get real experiences about FFS told me about numb spots or changed sensation - they usually play it down - its just a coin sized spot somewhere or a half inch stripe behind the incision or it is not numb but just feel weird... nothing really important - not compared to finally "passing"... so at first I thought the risk of this is minimal and I considered FFS, but the more people I contact the more of these experiences I read and the more unsure I get :( - I do not need FFS to pass, so that big positive that compensates these little issues is not going to happen with me.
Quote from: anjaq on November 19, 2016, 08:29:41 AMI do not need FFS to pass, so that big positive that compensates these little issues is not going to happen with me.
In the meantime, have you done anything to try and exorcise the ghost?
Letting go isn't easy, is it?
Quote from: anjaq on November 19, 2016, 08:29:41 AM
I do not need FFS to pass, so that big positive that compensates these little issues is not going to happen with me.
I didn't either.....was just hoping for 'icing on the cake'....and I'm pretty happy with the results.
One thing to take into account on these boards and this forum esp is that a good portion of us have just gone through it. I can't speak to the numbness much until a few yrs go by heh.
Yes certainly it is sad that often the people drop out before hearing long term results. This goes for FFS, voice surgery, GRS ...
The ghosts - I kind of have other things on my mind now - I need a breast surgery next year because my implant is having a fibrosis. So this is first, after that I may try hormone injections and maybe then I do not feel like FFS anymore...
Okay, bumping this to update, and probably will a few times again over the next year to log my experiences.
It's coming up on three months now, and the whole numbness experience is pretty okay overall, but, well, yeah, still numb. However, I'm starting to be able to feel just a little bit. If I tap gently, I can sort of feel in the skin on my scalp where I'm tapping, and it kind of tickles. If I poke myself with my fingernail in a manner that would hurt elsewhere on my scalp, I basically feel nothing. But the feeling I get with the taps is encouraging that maybe it will come back.
There's no specific area that I can feel more or less. It's all just uniformly numb, except that when I tap near the edges of the numb area, it causes a slightly sore feeling rather than the tickle I feel when I tap more toward the middle.
I had a brow shave and a lowering of the hairline on Jan 20th this year. I was familiar with numbness as I had a facelift some 10 years ago. I expected numbness in the scalp and yes it was there. No real discomfort just numbness and as the nerves reconnected it itched alot. I regained all sensation after 6 months. Never had pain from my facial surgeries.
everyone how is forehead numbness? I'm just over 1 month postop now and wondering about that. I have weird patches in teh forehead that I can feel fine but others where it's still completely numb. Top of scalp of course still numb too
Everything has been very close to normal in my forehead. The only issues I had were that the muscles were a bit pulled and therefore sore, and that I accidentally blew my nose gently in the first week — not allowed! They sent me flowers after the surgery, and I shouldn't have kept them in my room. I ended up feeling a tiny bubble of air escape from my skull into my forehead between my eyebrows ... but then everything was fine and there have been no issues since. Feeling has been close to 100% from immediately after surgery, with the only reduction being due to very slight swelling that reduced sensitivity ever so slightly. (There was much more swelling around my eyes.)
As for the scalp, I feel like sensation is returning slowly. It has been two months now, and I'm still feeling gentle taps either as a tickle or very slight pain, and it seems more consistent and sensitive. Sustained pinching or pressure still doesn't yield any sensation. There's a sensitive area on the boundary between the numb area and the sensate area, where touch can be a bit painful, though it's not an issue in everyday life. The itching is less bad than it was originally, though it still comes back occasionally. The whole area is about five inches by maybe 2.5 inches.
I'll continue to update as time goes on.
We've got a couple of threads on a similar theme: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,217349.0.html
Just saying ;)
FFS two weeks ago (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,216392.0.html) and I'm certainly very numb on the top of my head and down the sides. My forehead isn't numb at all.
The tip of my nose is tender rather than numb.
I'll keep you updated on here on how feeling returns, if it does!
6 weeks , still numb! haha. Forehead is slowly coming back though.
Quote from: Rachel Richenda on December 16, 2016, 02:10:21 PM
We've got a couple of threads on a similar theme: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,217349.0.html
Just saying ;)
Yup, I started this one first, and that inspired anjaq to start that thread on the slightly different subject of long-term results rather than what it feels like during recovery. :)
Latest update: I has been about ten weeks now, and I am starting to feel scratching, especially right in the middle of my head in a narrow area, maybe an inch wide, extending back from the incision several inches — basically the very top of my head. The periphery of the numb area, especially along the incision, still feels a little sore and slightly sensitive to the touch, but not usually noticeable. I'm starting to feel a little bit of pain when I dig in with my fingernails in the area where I don't feel scratching as much — the periphery, especially not at the incision.
There's not to much in the way of itching, especially since I can deal with it when it comes up by lightly massaging the points at the top of my forehead where the nerves were severed, or just tapping all over the numb area. Overall I would say about 5-10% of the feeling I lost has returned. Gently tapping with my fingertips, like you might do on a desk as a nervous habit or when you're bored, seems to help "retrain" the nerves.
As for everywhere else, I'm still completely normal feeling in my forehead, still a bit of puffiness in my chin on the part that faces out, just below the bottom of my gums. The bones that got worked on (brow, chin, jaw) feel a little sore to the touch, especially my chin, but that's not a big deal and getting better.
The only other annoying thing is how the incisions are healing. The hairline incision looks great, but the underlying tissue is a little bumpy, as expected. The incision for the chin work (inside my lower lip, near the bottom of my gums) I can still feel with my tongue and it reduces the flexibility of my lips a little, like when I make a funny "Dana Carvey as the church lady being skeptical" or "unimpressed McKayla Maroney" face. The cheek incisions (for the jaw work) are also noticeable, but much less so.
That's it for now. Feeling pretty good about it overall. :)
So updating again ... three months since surgery.
I basically have feeling in my scalp, but not 100%. I can feel everything from a gentle touch to firm tap to piercing pain, and it's pretty uniform over the area that was initially numb. It's just kind of fuzzy and not as intense as elsewhere, and I would definitely not call it satisfactory. But for just three months, it's pretty encouraging. I can still find the raw ends of the supraorbital nerves along the incision, but there's not really any significant itching or shooting or anything like that anymore.
Other than the scalp numbness, the hairline incisions is healing well, basically smooth on the surface. I had a little pimple that presented itself, but otherwise it's totally normal on the surface. Below the surface, it's still bumpy, so you can definitely notice it.
My chin is still a bit swollen and the chin incision (inside the mouth) is still a bit annoying, but it doesn't affect any daily activities, like eating. I just have to work a tiny bit harder to get food stuck in front of my lower teeth, and I can feel it with the Church Lady / McKayla Maroney face. The cheek incisions (for the contouring at the back of the mandible, below the temporo-mandibular joint) are still raised and a little weird, but otherwise feel normal.
That's it for now.
Okay, another update, now four months since surgery — I'll probably update again at maybe 6, 9, and 12 months or something like that.
I'll start with the issues not related to numbness:
I'm now at the point where all the bones should be healed completely, and it feels that way pretty much. There's a tiny bit of tenderness if I push on the parts of my chin and jaw that were contoured, and just *barely* on my brow area. There's still a bit of swelling on the front of the chin and tenderness if I poke at it. I can definitely still feel the scars on the inside of my mouth. The cheeks are totally not something I notice unless I try to, but the lower lip incision is still a little annoying, and kind of pulls a bit if I make faces (or, say, get some food stuck there and try to move it with my tongue).
The forehead scar is almost unnoticeable when you look at it — just a touch bumpy, not on the surface, but under the skin. There are a couple parts that are a bit more noticeable, but just barely. For a bit I got some pimples associated with the scar line which I guess is a thing, and that's done now. Most were in the area hidden by the hair. I probably wouldn't do well with a shaved head, but the part in front of the hairline is pretty much unnoticeable at this point, even if I pull my hair back — of course, there are some short hairs, ones that got cut in the surgery, which is a little annoying.
Okay, as for the numbness:
I would say that it's going quite well. I still notice it if I pay attention, but I'm not getting weird shooting feelings or whatever anymore. I can feel heat and cold and sharp pokes and gentle touch just fine, but definitely not 100%. Soft touch especially still feels off, kind of a bit like an electric spark that radiates out from the place where I touch my scalp. There's still a little itching, but it's easy to sooth by scratching the actual place that itches, not the raw nerve ending that was severed in the surgery.
For an overall scorecard, I would say the numbness is about 50% recovered. Forehead scar, maybe 75%. Forehead itself, 100%. Oral incisions, 60%. Chin, 85%. Jawline, 100%.
A fun little thing happened today at church. A woman I've known for many years came up to me during coffee hour and told me that I was just looking more and more beautiful every time she sees me, and she didn't know what I'm doing, but it's working. I just smiled and said thank you. Of course what I was thinking was, "Yeah, tens of thousands of dollars of plastic surgery — it had better be working!" (Also being back on HRT after being off for a while helps a lot too.)
Its 13 months and most of the numbness has gone from the scalp area some areas are still a little less sensitive but that seems to be improving each month. Forehead sensitivity also returned but some areas you can feel but not to the extent you could previously on the one side and the other seems to be back to normal. Strangely the side that's less sensitive eyebrow plucking really hurts while on the other side no big deal. The scar through the hairline has also gone down a lot in the last 3 months and more hair starting to grow in the area.