I recently took the COGIATI test, which I found online.
I answered all the questions truthfully. The result was, that I might be transsexual.
My psychiatrist has already given me a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, so there's that.
What do you ladies think about the accuracy of COGIATI?
I feel, I may have given some answers, just so that, the test can confirm me as a transgender. I may not have been completely truthful. The kind of questions it had, you never really know whether your answer is true or not.
Also, does my manipulating the test for a positive transgender result, show that subconsciously, I want to be identified as a transgender?
I know, the test is not really a basis for diagnosis, but I just wanted to know, whether it has atleast some science behind it.
I have some training in evaluating the accuracy and scientific validity of information (I'm a reference librarian), and I can say that the COGIATI has absolutely zero science or evidence behind it. It was invented by someone with no understanding of how scientific tests work, and it's based on some rather blatant gender stereotypes.
With that said, it doesn't have to be valid to work. If you take it and you know the answer you want, then you have learned something about yourself. ;) Which is to say, if "transsexual" is what you were hoping for... you are. You're the expert on yourself, after all. And yes, if you find yourself *trying* to slant your answers to get the result you want, then you definitely know WHAT you want, and no test (even one administered by a psychiatrist) ought to convince you otherwise.
As the disclaimer says, it is a purely amateur effort ans not at all scientific. Still, being curious I decided to try and take it. Jenna's right about it being based on blatant gender stereotypes. I found the questions to be very subjective and almost impossible to answer "honestly."
The inventor of the test has said it's not a valid diagnostic tool and was intended to get the medical community to do something (anything) to diagnose and treat transgender people.
Hugs, Devlyn
Thank you Jenna ,Tina, Devlyn.
Yes, even I felt that the questions were based on gender stereotypes.
But, I guess, I got my answer, when it felt good after getting the result I was hoping for.
Does it make any sense? LOL
One of the many books my therapist had me read is Julia Serano's, My Gender Workbook. In the book there is a test. I think the test helps you to get how you feel on paper and see how you compare with others. It is not scientific but a good exercise.
I am transgender. I had three diagnosis of GID and then GD. I know I am trans so the test just confirmed I am trans.
Struggling to find a definite diagnostic tool to confirm your gender is common and I wanted that too. In the end I accepted my identity. I think there must be stages we all go through along the way on our transition.
It is what set me on my path. If it wasn't for the results that I got, I still wouldn't know that being transgender isn't an all or nothing thing.
The whole of it is built around some very stereotypical presuppositions....I.E. women can't do math, they're better at poetry......blah, blah, blah. If it helps anyone, it's only through moral support. It's a silly quiz with zero value. Please don't stake anything of value in your life based on its results.
I think it's dated, full of stereotypes (playing with dolls), and bears absolutely no diagnostic value. Entertaining, at most.
That's exactly right. It is neither a validated clinical diagnostic or even reasonable guide for general use. It assumptions are faulty and rely on ridiculous stereotypical concepts of feminine and masculine traits.
On the basis of this test I am not well categorized since I have all of the stereotypical feminine and masculine traits examined. I can do math, do very well at spacial relationships and mental geometric tasks, am very musical, can perceive and understand emotional needs of others, read and write prose well, and so on. In discussion about this with my therapist, he made the interesting observation to me that the higher the intellectual level of function, the wider the array of mental capabilities, the less stereotypical the individual becomes.
Ignore the COGIATI.
or.......as one of the answers to their silly questions asks: "How am I supposed to make any sense of this?" :laugh:
Quote from: Steph Eigen on December 03, 2016, 08:39:38 AM
In discussion about this with my therapist, he made the interesting observation to me that the higher the intellectual level of function, the wider the array of mental capabilities, the less stereotypical the individual becomes.
Ignore the COGIATI.
I read a study once that said much the same thing. At higher intellectual levels, the differences in how men's and women's brains function narrows. My guess is that may reflect a heavier use of both brain hemispheres rather than a primary reliance on one or the other.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Quote from: jentay1367 on December 03, 2016, 08:50:45 AM
or.......as one of the answers to their silly questions asks: "How am I supposed to make any sense of this?" [emoji23]
That was my answer to one of the question.
Lol
Quote from: Rachel Lynn on December 02, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
One of the many books my therapist had me read is Julia Serano's, My Gender Workbook. In the book there is a test. I think the test helps you to get how you feel on paper and see how you compare with others. It is not scientific but a good exercise.
I am transgender. I had three diagnosis of GID and then GD. I know I am trans so the test just confirmed I am trans.
Struggling to find a definite diagnostic tool to confirm your gender is common and I wanted that too. In the end I accepted my identity. I think there must be stages we all go through along the way on our transition.
I'll definitely read the book. Thank you Rachel.
Quote from: Yuusui on December 03, 2016, 06:17:25 AM
It is what set me on my path. If it wasn't for the results that I got, I still wouldn't know that being transgender isn't an all or nothing thing.
Even I thought it was an all or nothing kind of thing. I was so wrong.
Quote from: 2cherry on December 03, 2016, 08:23:36 AM
I think it's dated, full of stereotypes (playing with dolls), and bears absolutely no diagnostic value. Entertaining, at most.
It is entertaining, I'll give you that.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on December 03, 2016, 08:39:38 AM
That's exactly right. It is neither a validated clinical diagnostic or even reasonable guide for general use. It assumptions are faulty and rely on ridiculous stereotypical concepts of feminine and masculine traits.
On the basis of this test I am not well categorized since I have all of the stereotypical feminine and masculine traits examined. I can do math, do very well at spacial relationships and mental geometric tasks, am very musical, can perceive and understand emotional needs of others, read and write prose well, and so on. In discussion about this with my therapist, he made the interesting observation to me that the higher the intellectual level of function, the wider the array of mental capabilities, the less stereotypical the individual becomes.
Ignore the COGIATI.
IGNORE THE COGIATI Check
Hi Saira,
I too have taken this test (multiple times, actually) in the hope of finding an answer.
I did recognize that a lot of the answers to the questions revolved about what is stereo-typically masculine and feminine. Like yourself, I found that it was quite difficult to give an honest and subjective response to the questions (a mix between feeling like I am trans, but not being 100% sure about it and looking for an answer).
In the end, I think I ended up with "probable transsexual" which set off some butterflies in my stomach. I got the answer that I wanted, so I could make sense and validate my feelings, but then questioned it's accuracy because I knew that the answers I gave would produce this result.
Realistically, it's probably a nice way to feel a bit more comfortable within yourself. I guess the feeling and response you get to the final result really is the benefit - If you had gotten "Standard Male" as a result, you'd probably feel really disappointed and distressed, as you believed that you were trans, but this didn't validate your feelings. However, if you had gotten "Transsexual" and it set of butterflies (like it did for me), then you probably feel like this had validated what you were feeling and given you the answer that you actually wanted to see.
Kind of like when you can't decide between two things (like eating a sandwhich or noodles for lunch), so you flip a coin and that settles it - when the coin lands, you may feel disappointed with the outcome and choose the other one anyway, because it was really what you wanted the whole time!
My point of view is less on the result that is given and on the actual content of the test, but more on the reaction at the produced result. It is kind of powerful in that way.
But take it with a grain of salt, and professional opinion will always win!
Love,
Karlee <3
Quote from: Karlee on December 05, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Hi Saira,
I too have taken this test (multiple times, actually) in the hope of finding an answer.
I did recognize that a lot of the answers to the questions revolved about what is stereo-typically masculine and feminine. Like yourself, I found that it was quite difficult to give an honest and subjective response to the questions (a mix between feeling like I am trans, but not being 100% sure about it and looking for an answer).
In the end, I think I ended up with "probable transsexual" which set off some butterflies in my stomach. I got the answer that I wanted, so I could make sense and validate my feelings, but then questioned it's accuracy because I knew that the answers I gave would produce this result.
Realistically, it's probably a nice way to feel a bit more comfortable within yourself. I guess the feeling and response you get to the final result really is the benefit - If you had gotten "Standard Male" as a result, you'd probably feel really disappointed and distressed, as you believed that you were trans, but this didn't validate your feelings. However, if you had gotten "Transsexual" and it set of butterflies (like it did for me), then you probably feel like this had validated what you were feeling and given you the answer that you actually wanted to see.
Kind of like when you can't decide between two things (like eating a sandwhich or noodles for lunch), so you flip a coin and that settles it - when the coin lands, you may feel disappointed with the outcome and choose the other one anyway, because it was really what you wanted the whole time!
My point of view is less on the result that is given and on the actual content of the test, but more on the reaction at the produced result. It is kind of powerful in that way.
But take it with a grain of salt, and professional opinion will always win!
Love,
Karlee <3
Hi Karlee,
I also felt so good when the result showed me that I was a probable transgender.
I know the test is not scientific, but, at least it showed me what I wanted for myself.
You look so lovely Karlee. When did you start transitioning?
It was one of the first 'tests' that I did, when I started questioning my gender, and was not expecting (even within it's cliche of stereotypes) the result of 'Probably Transgender'. Oddly enough subsequent retests generally give the same result. So it must be true, *sarcasm off*, Lol.
The result did set me off researching and further questioning though (and I found Susan's as a result), so it can't all bad...
Sno
I remember the first time I ever took the test it just seemed to contrived...and then of course there is the disclaimer. I had the test as an app for awhile as I was trying to work out what answers manipulated the test to give what result. In the end after taking it enough times it became obvious how easy it was to manipulate the score. There didn't seem to one particular question but more like a series of them that manipulated the outcome and they were so obvious. This was quite some time ago now but as a diagnostic tool you just need to ensure you read the disclaimer before taking the test because it say all you need to know about the validity of the test.
A bit of fun but based on an old and outdated model that was never correct.
Liz
No, the COGIATI is far from being a valid scientific test.
I always knew that I was "different" but didn't know what the difference was. In my mid 40s I stumbled onto a BBC "brain gender" quiz (another test that is not scientific) and took it out of curiosity. The results of that test were that I had both male and female thought patterns - huh? I had never heard of such a thing and didn't think it was even possible.
That led me to search for more tests - I found the COGIATI and one other test and took them and got the same answer. Those 3 tests got me to thinking, which led to realizations, which eventually led to where i am today.
So, scientific? No. Useful? In my case they were.
I grew up always assuming that you were gay or straight and that TGs were simply a derivative of being gay. Used to joke that tgs were the ultimate gay. I knew I was not gay. I've always had a very curious mind and looking for confirmation that my quirkish thoughts were simply a devient male look at sex.
So I innocently took the Cogati test. Its result was that I am most likly and should talk with a therapist asap. That was the begining of my journey over 10 years ago.
Reading this post caused me to reflect on my test and its results. I believe the test works if you are not fully aware of Tgs and that you did not know what it is. If you know I believe you can take the test to reaffirm your belief. Today, tgs are openly discussed and included now as part of LGBT and the test is not effective.
OMG! They have tests for this? I just out of the blue asked my doctor if I could be a girl and she said "sure... how do you want your drugs? And oh, should we schedule you for an orchie? You wouldn't have to worry about T blockers..." to which I respond "Easy Trigger! One step at a time." Then she stuck me with a needle loaded with estrogen. The blood tests came later... weird. ::)
I say do what makes you happy. You're the only thing in your life that's forever...
Quote from: Harley Quinn on December 05, 2016, 10:12:49 PM
OMG! They have tests for this? I just out of the blue asked my doctor if I could be a girl and she said "sure... how do you want your drugs? And oh, should we schedule you for an orchie? You wouldn't have to worry about T blockers..." to which I respond "Easy Trigger! One step at a time." Then she stuck me with a needle loaded with estrogen. The blood tests came later... weird. ::)
I say do what makes you happy. You're the only thing in your life that's forever...
WOW. It took me about 4 years before I was able to talk a doctor into giving me my first pill. Orchidies where never mentioned and T blockers where years away. You are truly living in wonder land.
I always saw this as one of those self-affirming self assessments. Sometimes, you're desperate enough to put your faith into a pseudo-science diagnosis, and the way you navigate through obviously biased questions says a lot more than the results.
What that says, could be loooots of things. But it's not the test! It's how you see yourself, and how you experience your life!
I took that test years ago. I found it so riddled with stereotypes that many cis women I know would probably flunk it.
That being said, we in this little online community could likely create a pretty valid questionnaire based on each of our varied but common experiences. If we all submitted a question or two and then collated them (there'd be several of the same I'm guessing), I think it would be more accurate (maybe not perfect).
For instance, this is a simple one that I use as an affirmation/thought experiment when I'm having doubts or WTF moments:
If you had a choice to wake up tomorrow in a permanently male or female body, which would you choose. It always reels me in because I always choose female, even if I'm in a bad way.
Anyhow, I think only Trans people could come up with a valid test because only we have lived in our shoes. I've been with two cis therapists (who have helped me significantly and I love both), but sometimes I'm not sure they even totally get it.
It would almost be easier to do the negative test ... you're not Trans if ....
From Jennifer Diane Reitz (the creator of the test)
"The COGIATI is a prototype. It was designed for only one target: the curious, unsure, pre-operative POTENTIAL Male-To-Female transsexual (not a post-op, not someone who is already certain, not a Female-To-Male, not anyone else who fails to fit the stated definition target). Further, it was constructed for that given target only because no scientifically and medically based test for such people exists. None. Anywhere. I saw that there was a void, no physicians were filling it, and so I set to work. The COGIATI is a challenge to the scientific and medical community to follow my example, and do a better job than I."
Quote from: Dena on December 05, 2016, 10:49:10 PM
WOW. It took me about 4 years before I was able to talk a doctor into giving me my first pill. Orchidies where never mentioned and T blockers where years away. You are truly living in wonder land.
I go to a teaching hospital run by the Veterans Health Administration. All my doctors are Fellows doing their internships... imagine an episode of "Scrubs". There's all sorts of strange protocols that are hit and miss and I switch out doctors all the time. If you don't like the answer you get, wait 5 minutes. Or bug their Attending.. who has like 10 of these interns running around. It's super crazy! And these doctors haven't been doctors long enough to be jaded by life and lawsuits. I get to break them all in proper with my brand of crazy straight out of medical school!
I thought it was pretty stereotypical but i had fun playing with it, heard it was far from scientific...that's what i know.
The mere act of taking the test in itself shows more than a passing interest in how one identifies as one of the opposite sex. Unless pranking is counted as a legitimate answer. Sure, you would not want to make a final diagnosis or choice based on the results of it, but why would anyone not interested in their own sexual identity even contemplate the test? Any way, I enjoyed taking the test, don't give it too much shrift, found myself probable transgender, even though my renewed HRT is over 4 months now, and SRS is very far behind me now.
The fact that I never had any training as far as being a girl is concerned also played largely into my probability of being diagnosed as having GD, instead of being solidly Transexual. I never thought much about that before, but girls usually go thru training as to how to be a girl. Makeup, dressing, how to behave [including the stereotypical behavior assigned at birth]... And this training is usually administered by, surprise surprise, other girls/women who want the best for them.
Of course, I could be wrong...
I agree. Just the act of wondering seriously if you are somewhere on the trans spectrum is virtually diagnostic of being on this spectrum. Similarly, if you are compelled to take the COGIATI or similar tests, the urge is surely driven by underlying gender uncertainty or related questioning.
I find it interesting that the gender identification urge is strong and internal but the manifestations of it are external, typically body shape, anatomy, sexual roles. A curious part of this is the huge body of learned behaviors, gestures, movements, postures, etc. which are transmitted mother to daughter and from female peer group from earliest social encounters with family, peer groups in childhood, teachers, etc. on up through adulthood.
It is no wonder that it is a struggle for many late transitioning transwomen many of whom have previously while living in masculine roles resorted to hypermasculinization as a defense against the constant urge to express femininity. Suddenly reality hits: they have chosen to be essentially reborn as an adult woman without he benefit of this intensive education, socialization and indoctrination natal women have had benefit of since birth. It is not surprise that nearly all go through what is essentially female adolescence as part of transition.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on December 11, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
.... It is not surprise that nearly all go through what is essentially female adolescence as part of transition.
The other thing about this is that time frame is compressed significantly...My learning curve has been very steep and I am not even presenting myself as Liz full time yet and once that happens in a couple of months I expect the learning curve to increase even further before it does eventually peak out.
Liz
Quote from: ElizabethK on December 11, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
The other thing about this is that time frame is compressed significantly...My learning curve has been very steep and I am not even presenting myself as Liz full time yet and once that happens in a couple of months I expect the learning curve to increase even further before it does eventually peak out.
Yeah, I totally get that. Trying to present as a normal 62 year old female with a 14 year old bouncing around inside delighted with finally getting out is an interesting experience. Makes shopping tricky ;) .
There are so many subtle details to learn, from gestures while speaking, posture under different conditions, ways of greeting one another, seemingly tiny details of speech and mannerism... All the subtle socialization details girls learn from those around them as they grow up. Oh, I've been exposed to these all my life, but the stuff I had to use to pass as male was all from the male side of our culture.
There's an entire other side to these cultural behaviors I've witnessed but never practiced. I'm getting a lot of help, though, from my new social contacts, practicing what I've picked up from people-watching.
I've got the gender identification. It's the gender presentation, particularly social, that is rough right now. I'm working on it...