So I just got back from the local outlet mall. I was in The Loft looking at the clearance rack with another woman and the sales clerk came up and say "How are you ladies doing? ..." That's going to take some getting used to. My first thought was "patronizing" but considering what I'm wearing and my current appearance there's no way he thought otherwise. (Similar situation in Wilson's Leathers too.)
Q: how long does it take so that doesn't feel/sound abnormal?
Quote from: Denise on December 08, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
So I just got back from the local outlet mall. I was in The Loft looking at the clearance rack with another woman and the sales clerk came up and say "How are you ladies doing? ..." That's going to take some getting used to. My first thought was "patronizing" but considering what I'm wearing and my current appearance there's no way he thought otherwise. (Similar situation in Wilson's Leathers too.)
Q: how long does it take so that doesn't feel/sound abnormal?
I think that once you really settle into your feminine identity, and have accepted yourself fully deep inside, that it will feel quite natural. Please don't take this as insulting or anything. It just takes time for many, perhaps most of us, to really settle in.
I consciously accepted myself as female many months back, but in all honesty, even now, living full time, there are moments where the old 'imposter syndrome' rears it's ugly head and tries to insist I'm not real. Almost all of the time being gendered correctly feels right, now, and the deliberate misgendering hurts.
I spent a half a century trying to pass as male, and it just takes time to get past that. Everything seems to just take time. ::)
Quote from: Michelle_P on December 08, 2016, 11:18:09 AM
I think that once you really settle into your feminine identity, and have accepted yourself fully deep inside.... Everything seems to just take time. ::)
You speak wisely oh master. The accepting oneself will take time.
That all depends on how long it takes for you to settle in to being a woman now. I took me a few months to as well so I remember how you're feeling but it does pass with time the more comfortable you get with yourself.
Denise I really thought I had this whole acceptance thing down and I did on a logical, head level...where this = that and therefore I must be Z...As Michelle said once you have "accepted yourself fully deep inside" and that I discovered is a much longer road than knowing it in your head. The absurdity for me, is that as I have steadily accepted that I am a woman the routine of living as a man has become much more difficult.
Time is your friend on this one, have patience and one day it will become just part of your everyday dialogue :)
Liz
I've been full time for over two years and it still feels weird to be mammed sometimes. I know I'm female but I guess I find it strange for some reason that others see me as female.
Depends on what you mean by "strange."
If it's in the sense of "how do I respond to this new stimulus?" for me it took several weeks of going out on my own, not in support groups or anything, and getting gendered correctly to start getting the gist of it.
If it's in the sense of "this still feels unexpected at times" then for me it wasn't until about 2 months after facial surgery that I began to expect it constantly.
If it's in the sense of "I didn't even pay attention to see if they got it right because of course it's always right" it wasn't until about 2 years into a post-op relationship, without narrative disclosure.
But if it's in the sense of, "Huh, this still makes me happy despite everything else in my life!" well, that has never gone away.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on December 08, 2016, 10:32:25 PM
But if it's in the sense of, "Huh, this still makes me happy despite everything else in my life!" well, that has never gone away.
That's the feeling it gives me...like a nice big hug.
Quote from: ElizabethK on December 08, 2016, 11:05:38 PM
That's the feeling it gives me...like a nice big hug.
It makes me giggle.
However, only when I've noticed it. Most of the time anymore I'm too engrossed in other things for it to register, what a typical Westerner! And then I'll have a quiet moment, maybe every couple three weeks or so (more, now, since I've returned to writing about it) and I'll be like, this is pretty amazing and incredible, and I'll smile and giggle and shake my head in disbelief that it was ever not so.
I haven't experienced it out and about yet but I have noticed I started feeling a strong dislike of the male pronouns and birth name at home. Also being "sir" ed even in male dress has started to bother me a bit. I really didn't think it would.
As much as it's been about two years, I can say... I feel good about myself and still feels different. I know I am doing stuff right :-) At first I would sit there and go "huh?" and my name I quickly got used to... when being called out at places and such.
The day after I came out a work I went to the cafeteria to buy lunch. When I checked out I got a thank you mam. It felt so good, really wonderful. From that point on sir felt wrong. I mean I had long hair (missing hair on top), woman's clothing and nail polish. I am showing my self on the outside and I just want to be treated as such. Sir at that point felt bad and mam felt right.
Quote from: Michelle_P on December 08, 2016, 11:18:09 AM
I consciously accepted myself as female many months back, but in all honesty, even now, living full time, there are moments where the old 'imposter syndrome' rears it's ugly head and tries to insist I'm not real. Almost all of the time being gendered correctly feels right, now, and the deliberate misgendering hurts.
I spent a half a century trying to pass as male, and it just takes time to get past that. Everything seems to just take time. ::)
'Imposter syndrome': that describes exactly what I feel when I try to say that I am a woman. Last night I was at our local gender-free dance, as me, and all night I kept feeling like, I'm just making an ass of myself by pretending I'm female. It's not possible. For other trans women, yes, whole-heartedly, but not for me. It gave a weird quality to the evening -- joy and despair at exactly the same time.
I'm the same age as Michelle, on HRT for a little over a year, and as of Dec. 3, I'm full-time and in the process of getting my name changed in the umpteen million places my deadname is lodged. But when I think about myself, I find I'm still deadnaming and misgendering myself in my mind. I still have trouble using the correct signature. (In my defense, there are still places where I have to use my old name. Name-changing is slo-o-o-w.)
Another problem is that this big a change is triggering my life-long terror that
this change will cause me to fall from my superficially safe life into hopeless destitution and I will end up like the little match girl. (Job security for my therapists.) It's exhausting. But that's another story.
Thank you all for your comments, they actually helped me to realize, once again, that I'm not alone.
Quote from: josie76 on December 10, 2016, 05:47:07 AM
I haven't experienced it out and about yet but I have noticed I started feeling a strong dislike of the male pronouns and birth name at home. Also being "sir" ed even in male dress has started to bother me a bit. I really didn't think it would.
Josie - I know EXACTLY how you feel. To the point where my minor OCD is going to show and I'm going to start counting them.
As some of you may have followed my adventures last week, I spent 4 days as Denise in Florida by myself. By the end of the week "mam" sounded right and it didn't bother me. But I did figure out what I had meant about it sounding "strange". Strange was not the right term -
Patronizing is the term I should have used.
I couldn't tell if people were patronizing me or if they really thought I was a woman. So I had an opportunity to ask someone after they realized I was transgender. She was genuinely surprised that I wasn't a natural woman.
So the patronizing thought is going away.
Wow Denise that's great! I have to say it would take me a lot to work up the courage to go on a trip be myself as myself.
Then again I might be a bit codependent so I'm not sure I would go one any trip by myself if it wasn't for work. :)
Right now I can't be Denise out in my town. My wife is to much in the public eye and she's got some people to tell. That means I need to express away from town. Going 1000 miles was a good option.
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Quote from: Denise on December 11, 2016, 10:46:11 AM
I couldn't tell if people were patronizing me or if they really thought I was a woman. So I had an opportunity to ask someone after they realized I was transgender. She was genuinely surprised that I wasn't a natural woman.
So the patronizing thought is going away.
Dee Dee,
I don't know if this ever goes away. I wonder all the time. I am waiting for the opportunity to ease into the topic at work. There are some new people at work who shouldn't know unless some of the old timers tell them about me. I tend to think they think something is up because when we talk about personal stuff, they never seem to ask anything about my SO or my kids. It's kind of like they are not sure what to ask. Could, on the other hand be my imagination.
I think if I have to depend on people knowing and having "good will" toward accepting me, it is a little harder than if people think I am natal female. Of course we all live with some of this (unrelated to being trans.) Everyone has insecurities with how they are seen, I think.
Moni
I thought I was the only one that felt "weird" when I got called by preferred pronouns and name!! Glad it's not just me! I was actually going to make a post about this. Haha
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Almost three years on and it still feels strange to be referred to as "she", "her", "Ms", etc. But at least it doesn't feel wrong!
So after exactly two months it's not bothering me to be ma'am'd anymore. Sir'd is starting to sound wrong which is good.
I think I figured out where my challenge is/was. I would think that I was being patronized. I didn't believe for a minute I was passing but after EVERYONE gendered me female last night at the mall and now it's about 40% female pronouns I'm over that phobia.
Now to get closer to 90%.
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Folks, even accepting folks, get the pronouns wrong all the time. I particularly notice this with older folks.
I'm fairly lean, so the bone structure and cartilage determines most of my facial appearance. HRT is having minimal impact there, and it is hard for me to mask it even with a serious makeup effort.
So, I get Sir'd a lot.
Being a bit of an activist, I ordered a bunch of buttons saying She / Her / Hers, on a background of transgender flag colors. I'm not concerned about the buttons outing me. The face takes care of that. (I'm working on plans to fix that.)
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Quote from: Denise on December 08, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
So I just got back from the local outlet mall. I was in The Loft looking at the clearance rack with another woman and the sales clerk came up and say "How are you ladies doing? ..." That's going to take some getting used to. My first thought was "patronizing" but considering what I'm wearing and my current appearance there's no way he thought otherwise. (Similar situation in Wilson's Leathers too.)
Q: how long does it take so that doesn't feel/sound abnormal?
I was going to say a couple days but then i remembered before a couple nights ago
Honestly in the end it depends on the person and their experiences although for me in the long run it probably took a couple months or maybe a year i loved when it happened but i was token off guard every time or baffled because i wasn't confident with my own appearance and i had a hard time believing others when they gendered me correctly.
It could be different with you to a degree or completely but for me a month or year maybe. Once i got used to hearing it and trusting what i was hearing then i started to get used to it being said it also helped my confidence.
Quote from: ElizabethK on December 08, 2016, 11:05:38 PM
That's the feeling it gives me...like a nice big hug.
Thank you! That is the exact feeling I get but didn't know how to express it. Originally I would thing "patronizing" There's no way you see me as a woman. But when I get ma'md and I'm in guy mode it reassures me that maybe the ma'ms while Denise are sincere.
Good analogy
Interesting topic and responses, everyone is unique and this question posed touches subjective areas of life and self perceptions.
For myself, I've been living full time as female for 6 years now, and being in the correct context and hearing the proper words come back to me, gives me deep satisfaction. I'll admit it's still not reached the point of being "taken for granted". I gladly accept proper context, just like last weekend at the bank, I enjoyed be referred to as Ms (a little glee in my head). I always enjoy being called Ma'am on the phone, I worked hard to get my voice to be passable for example. So maybe in 20 years I might pay less attention to these words, 6 years in and I am all smiles, it's working...
C -
Before I relocated to Alaska, I always jumped with joy when I was gendered correctly in conversations and once I quit my male-mode job, became Full-time and moved to where I am now, I have never been mis-gendered once.
I have had overwhelming acceptance in this small town... probably because I was an unknown out-of-town woman starting a new small business in this small town.
I soon came out publicly and many townspeople, clients and friends here were surprised to hear of my male past and have seemed to put it out of their thinking when they talk to me or talk about me for the most part.
I don't keep it a secret but I do NOT introduce myself as "Danielle the transgender woman."
Danielle
Quote from: Denise on December 08, 2016, 10:37:21 AM
So I just got back from the local outlet mall. I was in The Loft looking at the clearance rack with another woman and the sales clerk came up and say "How are you ladies doing? ..." That's going to take some getting used to. My first thought was "patronizing" but considering what I'm wearing and my current appearance there's no way he thought otherwise. (Similar situation in Wilson's Leathers too.)
Q: how long does it take so that doesn't feel/sound abnormal?
Been at least a year and half since I started to 'pass' and every now and then it still feels odd. Takes a long time to reset a lifetime of conditioning.
A post from the past has been resurrected. It still feels strange to be ma'md or ladies and I've been full time for 2 years and 3 months. I think part of the problem is I've NEVER been gendered correctly on the phone. Too many years of radio announcer's voice and public address talking has ruined me. Maybe it's time to get back to voice training.
Quote from: Denise on May 26, 2019, 01:23:14 PM
I've NEVER been gendered correctly on the phone.
I never am gendered anything but female by my voice. But I do purposely use a male voice when I am on the phone!
I think men get better results on the phone than women do, specifically if you have a complained or warranty issue, and have to wade through the different telephone reps, who try to discourage you!
I wanted to share something with you all that made me feel horrible. I was raised to always say "yes ma'am, no sir, etc..." to my elders. I'm a very polite person by nature, and me being me, I use sir and ma'am even with younger people. Here's where that failed me recently.
I went through the drive-thru at McDonald's and placed my order. The mysterious voice from the speaker asked if I wanted anything else with my order and I replied "no ma'am." In fact I think I used ma'am a couple of times during our interaction. Well I drove around to the window to pay and get my order and it hit me. The "girl" who I had been talking to was really a trans man...and he looked very sad.
I didn't know if I should say anything or not, because I didn't want to bring anymore attention to him. But as he handed me my order I said "thank you sir" and he gave me a great big smile.
I hope that made up for my earlier faux pas. I never like to hurt anyone or make them feel bad, so I'm going to maybe have to curtail my use of the sir's and ma'am's until I actually see the person I'm talking to.
I thought I'd share that with you all.
xoxo
Lexxi