I'm asklng lots of questions at the moment. I'm at a point where I have to make important decisions soon and I'm going over things in my mind to try and make sure I get it right.
What I'd like to ask this time is, if I start hormone therapy what will be the first things I am likely to experience which will tell me that the estrogen is starting to work.
I don't exactly know yet, but I am expecting to be on a low dosage to start with (probably using patches due to my age) and possibly an anti-androgen such as Androcur (as Berleigh pointed out in a recent post spirolactone is rarely prescribed in the UK).
Because I am in the older bracket, I'm not expecting to get huge boobs, neither do I necessarily want them, I would be happy just to have something so that when I look in the mirror I see a woman looking back at me, not this pathetic male with horrid facial and body hair that has to be constantly dealt with. I know also that at my age I'm unlikely to be pretty - maybe if I'd been able transition thirty years ago yes - but I will be satisfied if I can look female, even plain looking, as long as I no longer look like a bloke. Sorry I'm rambling!
So to get back to the question - what will be the first signs of change that I will see and feel?
Thanks, Louise.
For me it was my chest area and it would seem that case echo's around a lot. I started wearing sports bras everyday to hide them because I'm no where near ready to come out. Other things would be really soft skin and depending on your genetics fat will start building on your hips, and your butt may grow. It depends on who you are and your genes. I'm starting my 6 month now. I have no problems passing as male. In fact i look like a male with breasts. Its pretty sad.
Breasts first: nipples itch and go erect, buds form, swelling begins...
Then the rear and thighs get fat...
Then you start cursing about getting what you wished for... and start dieting...
Then you obsess on needing FFS for teh first few months, convinced your face isn't changing...
Then you see the first changes to your face...
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 08:39:58 AM
Breasts first: nipples itch and go erect, buds form, swelling begins...
Then the rear and thighs get fat...
Then you start cursing about getting what you wished for... and start dieting...
Then you obsess on needing FFS for teh first few months, convinced your face isn't changing...
Then you see the first changes to your face...
~Kate~
Oh shut up :laugh:
Quote from: Lori on November 06, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 08:39:58 AM
Breasts first: nipples itch and go erect, buds form, swelling begins...
Then the rear and thighs get fat...
Then you start cursing about getting what you wished for... and start dieting...
Then you obsess on needing FFS for teh first few months, convinced your face isn't changing...
Then you see the first changes to your face...
~Kate~
Oh shut up :laugh:
And you may feel a great deal of frustration and dispair while waiting anxiously for the changes to become noticable.. ;)
~Kate~
How quick depends on the dosage and how responsive you are but.
This is what happened with me.
- Less energy initially from T going down (that's quickest)
- Skin gets dryer and softer very quickly, within weeks in some areas.
- Body odours, sweat, urine, etc. Very quickly in my case.
- Nipple goes erect, budding behind it.
- Unstimulated erections disapeer
- Facial complexion changes substantially within 3 months, pores smaller, tone evening out, dryer and redness disapeering.
- Sperm production dries up in flow becomes clear (which is the prostate's output).
- Facial fats start being noticeable and have impact how you look. (Around 2 months in my case, but often its in the 3-4 month range)
- Fats elsewhere become substantial.
- For the rest, the order and timeline is quite variable so I won't enumerate it.
Quote from: Keira on November 06, 2007, 10:38:24 PM
How quick depends on the dosage and how responsive you are but.
This is what happened with me.
- Less energy initially from T going down (that's quickest)
- Skin gets dryer and softer very quickly, within weeks in some areas.
- Body odours, sweat, urine, etc. Very quickly in my case.
- Nipple goes erect, budding behind it.
- Unstimulated erections disapeer
- Facial complexion changes substantially within 3 months, pores smaller, tone evening out, dryer and redness disapeering.
- Sperm production dries up in flow becomes clear (which is the prostate's output).
- Facial fats start being noticeable and have impact how you look. (Around 2 months in my case, but often its in the 3-4 month range)
- Fats elsewhere become substantial.
- For the rest, the order and timeline is quite variable so I won't enumerate it.
Oh thank you
so much Keira, this is exactly what I needed to know. Transitioning is such a big thing and it's good to know the likely order of changes. I realise it's going to be frustrating waiting for things to happen and I'm going to have to be so patient.
Quote from: Keira on November 06, 2007, 10:38:24 PM
How quick depends on the dosage and how responsive you are but.
This is what happened with me.
- Less energy initially from T going down (that's quickest)
- Skin gets dryer and softer very quickly, within weeks in some areas.
- Body odours, sweat, urine, etc. Very quickly in my case.
- Nipple goes erect, budding behind it.
- Unstimulated erections disapeer
- Facial complexion changes substantially within 3 months, pores smaller, tone evening out, dryer and redness disapeering.
- Sperm production dries up in flow becomes clear (which is the prostate's output).
- Facial fats start being noticeable and have impact how you look. (Around 2 months in my case, but often its in the 3-4 month range)
- Fats elsewhere become substantial.
- For the rest, the order and timeline is quite variable so I won't enumerate it.
For me it was hot flashes that I noticed.
Next was erect nipples with budding. Very erect nipples. Still erect nipples.
Mental changes came within six weeks, at about the same time as my nipples began to feel activity from the inside.
Face got softer with other changes as Keira mentioned.
My skin became softer and I had fewer problems with dry skin.
I didn't get brittle nails.
Emotional changes were profound and sublime. They are still profound and sublime.
My perspective on many things changed.
My clothes ceased to fit and I can't tell you how many sets I have bought since July 2002 because what used to fit no longer comes close, both on top and on bottom.
I was and continue to be happier than I have ever been in my entire 56 years.
Please don't be overly concerned about how much happens or when. It varies for all of us. I have a friend who has had tremendous results and she is over 50. We joke that she was born with a tag behind her ear that reads, "For Best Results Add Estrogen."
I hope that this helps, Louise.
Wing Walker
Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 08:39:58 AM
Breasts first: nipples itch and go erect, buds form, swelling begins...
Then the rear and thighs get fat...
Then you start cursing about getting what you wished for... and start dieting...
Then you obsess on needing FFS for teh first few months, convinced your face isn't changing...
Then you see the first changes to your face...
~Kate~
That sounds lovely. :D
Within 2-3 weeks my nipples started to hurt a bit, I had a bit of nausea and dizziness that I feel was from the Spiro. I don't have nausia or dizziness any more, I noticed a mental change very early on too. My skin quite noticeably different after the first month and I didn't notice till 3 months on HRT but my body is quite different in shape my bum is defiantly bigger and my legs too. One thing I can't get over is how much my nose has changed it's totally different from the nose I had before. It's been 6 months since I started HRT and I'm still waiting for more fat to go to my cheeks, hips and more hair to grow. I've had hair growing that's filling in some of the male hairline front and sides for a while now every time I look I see more hair growing. The one thing that I'm not happy with after 6 months are my breasts, I do have boobs but they are small to small to wear a bra. At first my breast developed quickly, but seem to have stopped growing within the past month or so. I'm hoping they will go through a growth spurt to make up for it soon. It seems the longer I am on HRT the more emotional I am, it's not unpleasant for me, I just sit back and enjoy the rolercoaster ride.
Quote from: Jessica G on November 07, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Within 2-3 weeks my nipples started to hurt a bit, I had a bit of nausea and dizziness that I feel was from the Spiro. I don't have nausia or dizziness any more, I noticed a mental change very early on too. My skin quite noticeably different after the first month and I didn't notice till 3 months on HRT but my body is quite different in shape my bum is defiantly bigger and my legs too. One thing I can't get over is how much my nose has changed it's totally different from the nose I had before. It's been 6 months since I started HRT and I'm still waiting for more fat to go to my cheeks, hips and more hair to grow. I've had hair growing that's filling in some of the male hairline front and sides for a while now every time I look I see more hair growing. The one thing that I'm not happy with after 6 months are my breasts, I do have boobs but they are small to small to wear a bra. At first my breast developed quickly, but seem to have stopped growing within the past month or so. I'm hoping they will go through a growth spurt to make up for it soon. It seems the longer I am on HRT the more emotional I am, it's not unpleasant for me, I just sit back and enjoy the rolercoaster ride.
Hi, Jessica,
It is my own experience that physical changes due to HRT can continue for up to five years. It's different for everyone. Enjoy the ride because it's not like anything else in the world.
Hope this helps a bit.
Wing Walker
Quote from: Jessica G on November 07, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Within 2-3 weeks my nipples started to hurt a bit, I had a bit of nausea and dizziness that I feel was from the Spiro. I don't have nausia or dizziness any more, I noticed a mental change very early on too. My skin quite noticeably different after the first month and I didn't notice till 3 months on HRT but my body is quite different in shape my bum is defiantly bigger and my legs too. One thing I can't get over is how much my nose has changed it's totally different from the nose I had before. It's been 6 months since I started HRT and I'm still waiting for more fat to go to my cheeks, hips and more hair to grow. I've had hair growing that's filling in some of the male hairline front and sides for a while now every time I look I see more hair growing. The one thing that I'm not happy with after 6 months are my breasts, I do have boobs but they are small to small to wear a bra. At first my breast developed quickly, but seem to have stopped growing within the past month or so. I'm hoping they will go through a growth spurt to make up for it soon. It seems the longer I am on HRT the more emotional I am, it's not unpleasant for me, I just sit back and enjoy the rolercoaster ride.
It's pretty common for people to have growth spurts, so you'll have times when it seems that your breasts have stopped growing. Don't worry, that's natural. They will start up again.
For me...and this is the second time around for me...as I had estrogen for another medical intervention by a doctor for six months the first time.
That was about 21 years ago.
The first time I got very rapid breast growth and some mighty different mental feelings. I believe it was the Premarin I had to take...and the dosage was about normal values for a HRT regimine at that time. Although it wasn't my endeavor, I got some very good feminization at that time..so much so that I was relieved to get off the Premarin after those six months. I was developing quite fast and got to a B cup almost overnight.
Advance my timetable to about 3 months ago..and I went on to Progynova..in the usual dosage but this time with Casodex.
Wow!. In just that short time to now, I have gone up another full cup and started to add some thigh and bottom fat.
Noticeably I got very little mental change this time as I had on the Premarin. I don't think Progynova affects my mind quite the same way as the other E did. Crying jags don't happen this time and I don't feel very moody at all. Maybe it's just my age (62)...but there is a marked difference in the two estrogens.
Here's the noticeable physical changes so far...and remember that this is for the LAST THREE MONTHS ONLY:
1- Thighs went up a good 1½ inches so far. . and this helps with my Gloria Vanderbilt jeans.
2- Breasts got rid of the "nipple droop" as I called it and really filled in on the undersides, making the nipples point upward and adding a lot of weight to the whole breast. Soreness is very evident and I enjoy tormenting myself by sleeping on my stomach...just to feel them complain. Breasts are just plain HARD and erect almost all the time. The outer skin it taught and thankfully not stretch-marked at all.
3- Waist fat (as little as there is..) seems to be shifting toward my hips and where the mons would be.
4- Testicles are really smaller..and getting smaller every day. This surprised me a lot!. Testicular pain threshold seems to be a lot higher or doesn't exist any more. I can prolly get hit there and it won't bother me anywhere near as much as before. There feels like a lot of "jelly-ness" mass around them, but they themselves are really smaller. This MIGHT be the Casodex talking here.
5- I developed a very dark brown line under my penis..starting at the underside of the glans and it runs all the 'way under toward my...er...you know where. I have had the dark line under the scrotum from before..but this new line is odd and somewhat strange to me. It puckers when it gets cold or wet in the shower. Odd.
6- Skin softness (I nave really nice skin..even though it is tanned well) is somewhat softer....and my wife is jealous, saying mine is softer than hers.
7- Body odors have changed a lot. No more "sweaty locker room", now it is more like a sweetness instead of a saltiness.
8- Fingernails went thru a very short period (1½ month or so) of extreme brittleness...but that's all better now.
9- Weakness...let me talk about that...I lost about 50% of my physical stamina right away. It might be from my COPD or just because I am older...but it is leveling out now a little and I seem to feel better and a little less weak after the past 3 months. Maybe I'm just getting used to my new lack of strength. Dunnow.
10- Headaches! Lots of them..but that too might just be me...as I am very smog sensitive and we are having some really bad Stage-II & III smog lately. I also have bad seasonal allergies (orange/grapefruit trees, avocados, redshank, honeysuckle..etc) , and it is Spring. Add them up and they are tolerable...if I take the little red pseudephredrine OTC pill for it.
11- Attitudes? None noted. I don't have the mood swings this time. Really!! Premarin v Progynova?
12- Hair/facial beard..etc...some noticeable changes. Being blond(e) gave me a leg up on not needing to shave much...once a day was more than sufficient. Today...I can go about 4 days between shaving facial hair. Chest hair and legs are a LOT softer and less daily growth.
13- Height..this is strange too...I have lost about 1½ to 2 inches in height. This may be attributable to my osteoporosis...or not..but I keep very close watch on this so it's not a fluke measurement. Maybe muscle tome has changed and I slouch more..but I don't think I do. I always stand straight up and make sure of a very accurate reading every time. Hmmmmm.
14- Cleavage! Lots of it!! The typical male chest tends to create a big area between the centerline of the breasts...if you know what I mean. It always bothered me that I didn't have real cleavage before. Not this time! Boobs are really firm and stand out and the bottoms are filling in and the "Valley of The Giants" is becoming more pronounced every time I look..which I do very often.
Jiggling..which I had a lot of before..has seemed to decrease with the new taughtness in the overlaying skin..but it will likely return when this growth stops.
15- Scalp oils...or lack of them, really. My hair is more lustrous and silky-er and I seem to not need to use a conditioner as much...but the scalp is clearer and less oily now. I can wash it every other day and not get the itchy scalp like before.
Either I have been having a run on nasal ingrown hairs (not likely) or something chemically has change in my mucous membrane areas. I get a lot of what might be called pimples right at the innermost area of my nostrils. They are quite painful and can really make your eyes cloud up....but I cannot attribute this situation hormonally or to anything untoward yet. Might just be my sweat glands (in the nose?!?) or clogged pores or something. I will watch this for a while.
All in all..things like tactile sensations are about the same. I still like LOUD rock music. I still have an extraordinary sense of smell and taste. Vision is a little better..but I have had both eyes re-lensed years ago because of cataracts and retinal separation..so I am thankful for vision at all.
My male waistline has risen a lot...I am much more comfortable with my belt line pretty much at my navel...as that's where female waistlines are anyway. I used to wear low-rise, boot leg jeans, but now I like a mid- or "natural" waist style. I also fill out the butt a lot better now.
Bra size is changing..right now at a full 38B or 36C...either seems to do and for some reason the sizes are not what they are tagged. I can get clothes that are clearly labeled the same size and with a tape measure..prove they are different in the store. My fav bra is a Vasserette 75-440...but they are getting very hard to find.
Shoes! Ah! Lost another size (that's good!) and am wearing a female size 9 or male size 7 now. Went down a full size or so. My best heel height is about 3 inches. The best shoe for me is a mule (open back, closed toe) for daily, casual wear, and I love my Western Boots for play and semi-dress-up. I have some heels..pumps and such...but the appeal isn't as much as when I was younger.
My BPH-Prostrate problem is GONE! I now have the prostate of a 13 year old according to my endo at the VA. He says that Casodex+Progynova did it. I can write my name in the snow again!
My bone density should be improved too...but that test isn't for another two months. I will post the values when I get them. I am still taking Fosomax-IV in an experimentally administrated form to attempt to circumvent the problem with my hiatal hernia.
All this diatribe is just to (anecdotally) show that even at (my) advanced age, you can get some serious feminization with the right medical procedure. It's not fair to compare yourself to my story...but even for someone who had stopped and is now, after over 20 years...re-started the process...it can be done.
I was previously satisfied with an acute case of autogyne..or even fetishism..but now with a reasonable amount of time under my bridge....I can say that I am getting to where I needed to be years ago. I don't resent any lost time...it was all very good.
Note that I am not advocating any self-medical intervention for a fetish or jealous sexual hang-up..it's just that I present this result as a case study for anyone who can glean any information for their own personal perusal.
"O" yes...before I forget..the "O-level" has changed...but this is for the better. I can get up for the job..it just takes a while longer..which makes my wife happier. She gets to be stimulated for the time she needs..and it coincides with my reaction too. The orgasm is "deeper" and seems to come from a different spot...kinda hard to state..but you'll know it when it changes for yourselves... less fluid and a lot clearer discharge (by me) and I seem to be able to get ready for another round of activity a lot faster now too.
(Know what I mean?)
I also don't get the post-coital headache like before. That's a great relief.
I have a large bottle of blue pills if I want them..but so far they aren't necessary. My doc wants me my wife to be happy!
In order, the first things I noticed were:
1. My skin started to feel softer.
2. My pants and skirts started to get tighter. (The next time I saw my doctor she took one look at my butt and said, "I see we're working on fat redistribution.")
3. Sore nipples.
4. Other breast changes came afterwards.
I have read a lot on the changes brought on by the hormones. Reading the posts here sure is a big help. I am due to go on hormones in June. I am looking forward to it.
Thank you all for the information in your posts.
Amber :)
Posted on: May 26, 2008, 02:20:22 PM
Alos in June i get my name legally changed too.
Amber :)
Interesting Thread. I too am looking forward to more changes. I get sore nipples, not often. And they get erect more offend and they now shaped differently. Can not wait for the hips, butt, and small waist. Not to mention the bust line increase.
:icon_love:,
Janet
I am due to go on prescription hormones in September. That's the soonest I can see the endocrinologist here in Lexington, KY. With the herbal hormones, though, there have been NOTICEABLE changes in the two months I've been taking them. I will list the changes I have noticed in order of magnitude:
- butt got A LOT bigger, and I love it! Gives me so much more of a wiggle now when I walk, and I believe my hips have gotten bigger. My body weight has gone down, but my butt got bigger AND I work outside a lot so I know it's not that I'm "fat".
- skin is smoother. A lot fewer pimples. More of a youthful appearance. My son just turned 2 this past Monday, and I could tell that family was noticing something different about the way I looked
- more color to my emotions. Less black and white about things.
- decreased muscle mass and seem to become fatigued faster. I've noticed this especially out in the garden. Mind you I've still got power but I'm not running on a V8 anymore ;)
- body hair is thinner. I shave my arms, lower parts of my legs and my chest today, and the hair is definitely thinner
- decreased libido. When I get turned on now it's much more of a foreplay kind of excitement, rather than a means to an end (penetration). My wife and I sometimes wrestle around, and I feel (and I think she feels) like we're just girls being girls when we do this sort of stuff
I can't think of anything else at the moment
Aeron
Thanks for reviving my thread.
I started HRT not long after I started this thread last November. I cannot give explicit details but I have been on a comparatively low dose of estrogen (Sandrena gel) administered daily. No anti-androgens. During this time I've had second thoughts, then third thoughts and fourth thoughts even as to whether to continue. I've given the reasons for my doubts in other threads so I won't go over old ground again. So I have sometimes gone for a week or more with no E before feeling compelled to resume treatment. At this very moment I am expecting to go into hospital for a minor operation and have stopped all medication until that is done.
So what have I experienced so far? Well it's been very little, but even so much more than I ever expected. In fact I've been thrilled with the little changes that have occurred. Definitely increased breast tissue and a little nipple development. I have been losing some bulk in my shoulders and arms, which are becoming more feminine despite doing a job which involves lifting. I am definitely getting a new waist higher up, sort of between my bust and my belly button. And I'm getting a bigger bum. My male-pattern belly is still a problem, but I'm working on it with sensible eating and exercise (I've stabilised at 168 lb - I'm five foot eight and a half). Then there is the ugly thing between my legs. My legs, ah my legs!!, they are truly shaping up beautifully with more flesh on my thighs and calfs - I'm really proud of them except for some nasty scars I have on my shins from past minor accidents. My hair grows much more healthily and faster than before. And I love how I feel. I'm in love with those little gel sachets!
But in all honesty, although I have noticed these changes, most people wouldn't notice them and would still see me as undeniably male - that's the bitter truth of it.
I hope I won't have to abstain from my E for too long and that I won't lose the changes that I've experienced.
Louise
Posted on: May 28, 2008, 08:22:27 PM
I nearly forgot to say that in addition my skin is now beautifully soft. Libido was not great before and is now zero.
L
Hi Louise,
For me the first signs of change was a tenderness in my breasts, espeically around the nipple. It wasn't long after that that I started to experience some moderate growth in my breasts (although the tenderness got worse before that). I then started to notice changes to my waistline, hips and butt. My waistline got a little smaller & my hips & butt a little bigger. Best of luck Hun!
Hugs,
Donna
Quote from: DonnaC on May 28, 2008, 03:26:29 PM
Hi Louise,
For me the first signs of change was a tenderness in my breasts, espeically around the nipple. It wasn't long after that that I started to experience some moderate growth in my breasts (although the tenderness got worse before that). I then started to notice changes to my waistline, hips and butt. My waistline got a little smaller & my hips & butt a little bigger. Best of luck Hun!
Hugs,
Donna
Thanks Donna, that's exactly what I've experienced, you've said in a few words what took me a whole paragraph!!
Best wishes, Louise
You're very welcome Louise. Best wishes to you!
Donna
Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 08:39:58 AMBreasts first: nipples itch and go erect, buds form, swelling begins...
Then the rear and thighs get fat...
Then you start cursing about getting what you wished for... and start dieting...
Then you obsess on needing FFS for teh first few months, convinced your face isn't changing...
Then you see the first changes to your face...
~Kate~
Sounds like when I went through my natural female puberty!
Well, wonderful. The girls seem to get a pretty normal feeling puberty, even though it's later. :P I hear that T will give us guys a pretty normal puberty, except the downstairs department...
Hi,
I have read from a range of sources about how HRT changes you mentally, how does it change you mentally? I can't quite understand it.
Thanks
Sarah
Along with the physical changes, I found myself becomming much more emotional. I find my emotions are close to the surface all the time. Keep in mind that my blood-serum level of estrogen is approximately 220% of a typical, young genetic female.
I would suggest talking with yor physician about starting at 50% dosage. this gives your body and mind an opportunity to adapt to the new body chemistry. After about 6 months, I went on full dosage.
I also found that an anti-androgen was not necessary. My blood-level of testosterone is down to about 14 units and dropping. Normal is about 120 units.
Chaunte
No one's yet mentioned the otherworldly compulsion to wear pink chiffon?
:laugh:
N~
Nipples, skin, and then more fat.
But I still am REALLY skinny.. Lol
The most significant change has actually been mental... All I care about anymore is cuddling. Sexually I might be considered bi now. Body hair has slowed alot which is great. Still wanna zap it though...
I really like the way I perceive things now. Its so much more me, its ridiculous. I can't believe I never had this before, or thought this existed. I can't live the other way again, ever...
Quote from: deviousxen on May 31, 2008, 03:37:10 AM
I really like the way I perceive things now. Its so much more me, its ridiculous. I can't believe I never had this before, or thought this existed. I can't live the other way again, ever...
I think I feel the same as you, there's just no going back now.
When I stop the estrogen (as I have had to pending my minor op.) after just a few days I'm feeling really down and anxious, ill almost, is this normal? Will it be like when a genetic woman has a full hysterectomy and ceases to produce estrogen and they start to have wierd symptoms?
Louise
Yeah, it very well might be like that. Lots of us experience that in the month or so prior to surgery when most of the surgeons require one to be off of estrogen.
Actually, a lot of us experience some of the same symptoms when we start on anti-androgens and estrogen as the T levels drop as well, and before we build up our estrogen.
A lot of us get PMS symptoms between IMs until we get a frequency of injections that covers us all month.
Bodies need hormones. Sexed-bodies need sex-hormones.
Nichole
So I hear thighs grow in size...that's a little depressing. My legs and butt are big enough as it is. Although I suppose losing muscle mass is something to expect and so they shouldn't get too much bigger. But yeah reading this thread is rather reassuring as far as what to look forward to.