BREAKING: Obama commutes sentence of trans whistleblower Chelsea Manning
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/17/breaking-obama-commutes-sentence-of-trans-whistleblower-chelsea-manning/
Pink News/By Joseph Patrick McCormick 17th January 2017, 9:34 PM
"President Obama has commuted the sentence of transgender whistleblower Chelsea Manning in one of his final acts as President.
Private Manning, who announced her transition to female in 2013, was imprisoned in Fort Leavenworth military prison after leaking details of classified government documents concerning alleged war crimes and rights abuses via WikiLeaks. "
Thank you Mr President!!!
Omg! I can't believe it!!!
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, I think a 35-year sentence was too much. On the other hand, that was an extremely serious security breach. I'm sure there a lot of other people on this board that work for the DoD, and have a security clearance. It would be interesting to hear other people's opinions. I'd rather not say anything.
~Terri
All I'll say is That the President thought it proper
Hooray and thank you Mr President! I will so miss this man as our President. While I will keep working for equality and equity President Obama has been the best friend to the LGBTQIA people of this country we have ever known.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 17, 2017, 04:22:07 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, I think a 35-year sentence was too much. On the other hand, that was an extremely serious security breach. I'm sure there a lot of other people on this board that work for the DoD, and have a security clearance. It would be interesting to hear other people's opinions. I'd rather not say anything.
~Terri
I agree with you and disagree with the President.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
This is so awesome!
Of course i am extremely left on these things, but i never believed the military and the industries that support it are worthy of even close to the amount of funding and above the law treatment it receives. Domestic intelligence and the military are necessities, but they should be very subservient to a federal government that is well checked ( i know utopia right?) I'd like to see our $600B budget reduced to about $80B and almost all presence ended outside our borders. I'd like to see the three branches combined into one defense force (like japan does it) with one administrative structure but three command structures.
From what i understand of Manning, her breach of security was real but likely a good thing for the country. Sometimes people die from such breaches but i am not aware if that has been the case here. Most of it has been of the embarrassment variety. I'm open to other information on that point.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 17, 2017, 04:22:07 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, I think a 35-year sentence was too much. On the other hand, that was an extremely serious security breach. I'm sure there a lot of other people on this board that work for the DoD, and have a security clearance. It would be interesting to hear other people's opinions. I'd rather not say anything.
~Terri
I feel the exact way you do.
It was announced today that President Obama commuted Chelsea Mannings prison sentance from 35 years to 6 years. She should be released sometime in May 2017.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html?_r=0
A couple of things to remember here. When Chelsea broke the US Law and her military code of conduct , she was not out as being Transgender. Some people have believed that her "coming out " as being Transgender was her way of bringing attention to her cause. So it will I think be very interesting if once when she is released she goes forward with her GCS.
In my opinion her 35 year sentence was a little too harsh, but remember most people caught spying on behalf of a foreign power get Life imprisonment and in certain countries even Australia, many of such cases are held "in camera" so as to not disclose security matters to the outside world. As someone that has served in the military and one that has had a DoD security clearance, I find it a complete anathema that she decided upon her own volition to break that security. By doing so I believe she weakened not just the US, but also the five "Is" and did enormous damage to world security
I am thus rather sad that after being so supportive over the last 8 years to the Men and women serving their country that this outgoing President would commute Chelsea's sentence completely. As no matter which way you view this, Chelsea's action was completely unlawful.
Judith
All I ever wanted for Chelsea was the right to be herself while she served her sentence.
Quote from: judithlynn on January 17, 2017, 07:19:20 PM
A couple of things to remember here. When Chelsea broke the US Law and her military code of conduct , she was not out as being Transgender. Some people have believed that her "coming out " as being Transgender was her way of bringing attention to her cause. So it will I think be very interesting if once when she is released she goes forward with her GCS.
In my opinion her 35 year sentence was a little too harsh, but remember most people caught spying on behalf of a foreign power get Life imprisonment and in certain countries even Australia, many of such cases are held "in camera" so as to not disclose security matters to the outside world. As someone that has served in the military and one that has had a DoD security clearance, I find it a complete anathema that she decided upon her own volition to break that security. By doing so I believe she weakened not just the US, but also the five "Is" and did enormous damage to world security
I am thus rather sad that after being so supportive over the last 8 years to the Men and women serving their country that this outgoing President would commute Chelsea's sentence completely. As no matter which way you view this, Chelsea's action was completely unlawful.
Judith
Why would having GCS indicate anything about her validity as transgender person or as a lawbreaker? I saw horrible and brutal miscarriages of so called military conduct codes while serving in Vietnam. One illegal act may not justify another but there are more than a few injustices we will never know about without these unlawful whistle blowers.
I was really happy to hear about this. I hope she can live peacefully from now on. Go Chelsea!! :)
Quote from: Tessa James on January 17, 2017, 07:39:14 PM
Why would having GCS indicate anything about her validity as transgender person or as a lawbreaker? I saw horrible and brutal miscarriages of so called military conduct codes while serving in Vietnam. One illegal act may not justify another but there are more than a few injustices we will never know about without these unlawful whistle blowers.
I also thought it particularly 'humorous' (outrage was more what I felt) that everytime wikileaks said they had some dirt on the Clinton crime family, Ms Manning had allegedly 'attempted suicide' withing the same week. (I think 3 times this happened?) I worry if they let her out someone might finally succeed in 'suiciding' her?
About time. While I agree that imprisonment may have been well-deserved in this case, the treatment Chelsea received while in prison was borderline torture. I think she's been punished enough now.
I would like to hear more of Chelsea's story. Prison is not the best place to get your story out. Criminal or not, it would be a good thing to be able to understand what happened from her perspective. Now that may happen. As long as she doesn't try to star in her own reality TV series I'm OK with her release.
The most interesting item of this legal case is that Chelsea got a very heavy sentence for her crime. Please note that she is only a Private First Class. A really entry level rating. She made a mistake and the Army brass gave her a 35 year sentence. In 1968 Lt Calley killed over 100 Vietnamese civilians who were unarmed noncombatants. He got 3 years under house arrest. Many legal people have decried her sentence as being way too harsh. Finally, Chelsea has some degree of justice.
Note: I served about 30 years in the Army, regular,reserve and individual reserve.
This is great news, as this case was blown out of proportion, and the punishment did not fit the crime. It was more a case of she is transgender vs. the release of classified information. People are hung up on the idea that she should be in prison for the rest of her life. I've been arguing that this serves no purpose, other than some peoples thirst for punishment. She has served her time, and should be able to move on with life.
The longest sentence ever imposed on any defendant in a previous similar prosecution under this statute was 3-1/2 years in prison. Chelsea Manning was hit TEN TIMES as hard as any other defendant.
She's been serving her time with her hair in a military buzz-cut in a men-only military prison. She was denied any appropriate gender-related medical treatment for several years until the government partially relented for limited HRT. It's no wonder that she attempted suicide in prison. (For which she was subjected to disciplinary solitary confinement, by the way! Now that's a great way to deal with a potentially suicidal inmate, isn't it?)
Basically, the government treated Chelsea Manning as roadkill in its campaign to cover up errors and abuses related to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. An Army PFC got a sentence of 35 years because the government had to get revenge and all of the other prosecution targets got away with it.
I'm so glad to see the prison doors swing open for Chelsea Manning. I wish her a soft landing on the outside and hope that now her real life is just beginning.
Among some of the things Chelsea was faced with in prison, she was charged "medicine misuse" because a tube of toothpaste had expired three months earlier. Solitary confinement for toothpaste? She was also charged with "disrespect of a prison official" because she asked for her lawyer when charged with something by that prison official. Books that were legally obtained were then removed from her cell as contraband. At one point, her lawyers were denied permission to see her. There is no doubt she was singled out for harsh treatment and I worry about how she will be treated between now and May 17 when she is released. It would have been nice if it had been commutation to time served and I hope she can hold it together until May.
Now, as a veteran, I don't condone what she did. Yes, some of the information about abuses needed to come out but some of the information didn't. But also rank has it's privileges. President Obama Tuesday also issued a full pardon to a General Officer, the former Vice Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who leaked Top Secret info to two reporters. He was only charged with lying under oath. He was given a one year suspended sentence but he got a full pardon even though the one year had long since passed. Chelsea only got a commutation of sentence so she is still a convicted felon. What the President did was not forgive her but save her life.
The comments I have to offer are entirely nonpartisan; I have disdain for most all politicians.
The Manning commutation needs to be viewed exclusively from the viewpoint of the breach of national security, violation of security clearances and the tangible risk to military and intelligence personnel in the field as a result of the disclosure of classified material. This was a traitorous act and must be acknowledged as such whether you agree with or oppose the disclosure of the information in the documents. On this basis, he (at the time of trial, not yet come out as TG) was prosecuted within the letter of US law. Only after conviction did the TG issues become known.
As a result, Chelsea Manning's TG status should not in anyway play into enthusiasm for or against the commutation of the sentence. It could be argued that the sentence might have been greater than historically applied to security breaches in the past. That is a different topic, again independent of her gender and TG status.
I think we risk losing credibility by bringing support for Chelsea Manning's commutation of sentence speaking as collectively as a TG community as if we owe her support simply for the fact of being TG. I feel strongly that opinions about this event need to be cautious, measured and independent of gender.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on January 18, 2017, 05:12:45 PM
As a result, Chelsea Manning's TG status should not in anyway play into enthusiasm for or against the commutation of the sentence. It could be argued that the sentence might have been greater than historically applied to security breaches in the past. That is a different topic, again independent of her gender and TG status.
I think we risk losing credibility by bringing support for Chelsea Manning's commutation of sentence speaking as collectively as a TG community as if we owe her support simply for the fact of being TG. I feel strongly that opinions about this event need to be cautious, measured and independent of gender.
I think that is a valid point. I do wonder if part of her decision making had to do with internal conflict due to her personal TG struggle. If so It may only be providing a further reenforcement of the myth that TG people are unstable, or prone to criminal acts. It's a good a time to dust off those critical thinking skills.
Thanks. To extend the thought a bit more, we collectively need to avoid acting in the manner of the "single issue voter" phenomenon supporting anything or anyone that is TG.
There are lots of us (TG) here with military service, in my case 24 years under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and subject to recall for life. Being TS is unpleasant and left unresolved can cause personal issues. However, given my life experience I cannot in any way imagine how the stress of being TS could ever cause such a grievous act like this. There are legal avenues a Soldier can take if they have a serious concern about something. This includes the right to take that concern directly to Congress. She did not do that and made a criminal lack of judgement in what she did instead. She is not a hero in any sense of the word.
Whether or not her sentence was extreme is an entirely separate matter. But she was tried fairly, during time of war, under the UCMJ.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Quote from: Deborah on January 18, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
Whether or not her sentence was extreme is an entirely separate matter. But she was tried fairly, during time of war, under the UCMJ.
Chelsea plead guilty and the Army brass through the book at her. The court prosecutor is not a friend of the defendant. Chelsea did not get a fair trial because her legal counsel was grossly inadequate.
Also, the concerns she raised have never been addressed. The wartime abusive collateral damage continues, giving motivation to radical Muslims for their terrorist actions. And so the violence continues.
Every clown on TV News missed this critical point.
Collateral damage is a fact of war. This is particularly true when the enemy hides amongst the populace. If Americans cannot accept that then they should stop being so enthusiastic about going to war in the first place.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
I thank people for their service here and see the military as a necessity. But when anything like this has to be passed through the filter of "national security and risk to military service and intelligence" red flags go up all over. I do see that sort of thought as very political for a number of reasons.
Our history of the use of our military is far from all positive. The complex of industry, government, military and intelligence that exists to drive activities based on security is also highly questionable at times. Objectivity and truth is likely very hard to arrive at within this area because the system itself is not served by any such scrutiny. The old horses of "national pride and honor" also make appearances in this part of society and those too should be looked at with skepticism.
I'm a citizen, but i'm no patriot, but even with that bias, i understand the need for un-shared intelligence and confidentiality in some parts of public service. However from what i have seen on what she has leaked, there not does not seem to be a lot human damage, but there is a fair amount of political embarrassment, and talk of transparency etc
For these reasons, i would support the President's action whether she was trans or not.
this is just my personal opinion so take for what it's worth. I don't know if her sentence was fair or not all I know is that she had many more options to disclose the material than doing what she did.
I find it interesting that nobody ever talks about the misdeeds that were exposed by the release of these documents. I also find it interesting how no one compares what Chelsea did to what Bush and Cheney did. Lying to start a war is the ultimate treason yet they walk free today. Cheney made a fortune because of the war.
Chelsea didn't profit in anyway from the release of these documents. She's suffered because she believed rightly that these outrageous actions needed to be exposed.
And if you're all worried about the people in uniform, think about the number that died and were wounded because of Bush and Cheney. It's so typical to throw the book at the little guy and let the real criminals free. Chelsea would never have been in this position if it wasn't for the real war crimes that were committed.
Have a nice day,
Paige :)
I view her release at least on scale with Scooter Libby. Scooter Libby performed treason by outing an active CIA agent. And he got pardoned.
Mark Twain said "there has never been a just war..." It has also been said that "the first casualty of war is truth." The war in Vietnam that i experienced was predicated on the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the list of lies continues to grow. Skepticism and whistleblowers are needed even more than spies and lies in my book.
And so it goes! Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one!
When Chelsea is released, we of all people should accept and support her regardless of her actions.
This is called unconditional love.
Chelsea took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. She also swore to abide by the laws of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. She failed to abide by either. Ms. Manning deserved her sentence. Research CWO John A. Walker. He received a life sentence for his actions
That being said, Ms. Manning told the Army that she was trans before she committed espionage. After it was discovered that she was being abused in Ft. Leavenworth, she should have been transferred to a federal women's correctional facility with an option for counseling, complete HRT, and/or SRS.
The Walker spy case is completely different. John Walker betrayed his country for monetary profit.
Chelsea Manning made a bad decision, which she freely admitted to and has served 6 to 7 years in prison. Her motivation was because other Allied service men were breaking the rules of engagement and therefore the law. Chelsea received no monetary gain for her actions.
The UCMJ provides that service members do NOT have to follow illegal orders. Her actions should have been handled within channels. We all have a Congressman.
I agree, Tessa and Paige!
Much of the classified material is only protecting those committing atrocities from scrutiny.
Bush and Cheney got off scot free, and the one who pointed it out was jailed. Typical.
Did you read Clinton's emails?
OMG! I'd been hearing other whistle-blowers saying this but reading it was shocking.
You both make great points. It's refreshing to have healthy debates without insults or name-calling!
Quote from: Dani on January 22, 2017, 05:41:39 PM
The Walker spy case is completely different. John Walker betrayed his country for monetary profit.
Chelsea Manning made a bad decision, which she freely admitted to and has served 6 to 7 years in prison. Her motivation was because other Allied service men were breaking the rules of engagement and therefore the law. Chelsea received no monetary gain for her actions.
The UCMJ provides that service members do NOT have to follow illegal orders. Her actions should have been handled within channels. We all have a Congressman.
Indeed. I vividly remember the Walker case, as I was onboard the USS Parche at the time. He put us very directly in harms way so he could buy a Corvette. See "Blind Man's Bluff" if you are curious.
Manning made the wrong choices for the right reasons. She could have found a better path, but what she did was very different than what Walker did.
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