Lately I've been having a lot of anxiety imagining what life will be like socially after I transition. It takes a while for me to trust men, and I feel like being shoved into a life of being physically grouped with only men is going to freak me out since I haven't grown up like that.
I'm sure other FTMs feel the same with trust issues aside. I'm also sure that it won't be as bad when it actually happens, as I'll be prepared. I'll also probably feel less vulnerable when I transition (since this body that I don't like makes me feel like raw meat). Despite knowing these things, my emotions just run wild when I think about having only male roommates, etc.
I'm also worried about not fitting in with them once I look the part. I'm not used to the standards placed on men because I did not grow up as one. The thought of having to learn all that is exciting but scary. I'm scared I'll be too feminine for them in some way or another.
I feel a bit stupid putting this up publicly. It's weird to put into exact words.
Is anyone else pre-T and worried about this or something similar? Anyone post-T willing to share their story with getting used to being grouped with other guys after years of the opposite?
Nothing stupid about it. You want to know stupid? Try remaining silent for over 40 years. Now that's stupid.
Quote from: lc100 on January 23, 2017, 05:33:34 PM
Lately I've been having a lot of anxiety imagining what life will be like socially after I transition. It takes a while for me to trust men, and I feel like being shoved into a life of being physically grouped with only men is going to freak me out since I haven't grown up like that.
I'm sure other FTMs feel the same with trust issues aside. I'm also sure that it won't be as bad when it actually happens, as I'll be prepared. I'll also probably feel less vulnerable when I transition (since this body that I don't like makes me feel like raw meat). Despite knowing these things, my emotions just run wild when I think about having only male roommates, etc.
I'm also worried about not fitting in with them once I look the part. I'm not used to the standards placed on men because I did not grow up as one. The thought of having to learn all that is exciting but scary. I'm scared I'll be too feminine for them in some way or another.
I feel a bit stupid putting this up publicly. It's weird to put into exact words.
Is anyone else pre-T and worried about this or something similar? Anyone post-T willing to share their story with getting used to being grouped with other guys after years of the opposite?
Your comment, "I'm not used to the standards placed on men because I did not grow up as one. The thought of having to learn all that is exciting but scary. I'm scared I'll be too feminine for them in some way or another" is exactly the way I feel as well but in the opposite way...will I be to masculine to be feminine? Like as has already been pointed out, no need to feel silly or stupid. I also think that we all put almost too much stress on ourselves regarding this but please believe me I am by no means trying to downplay your concern!!
Too bad we can't simply switch places!!!
Paula
Didn't ever feel that way. I may have been grouped by society with females, but I never internally felt that way. Most of my friends throughout my life have been male. I don't feel like there was much socially that I really struggled to learn or that had a high learning curve during my social transition.
Never was socialized for behavior as a girl or fit in with women and girls much if forced to. Had more male friends as a kid, and more male friends these days for some reason... not seeking them out particularly, it just seems to fall that way.
I guess the main differences you will notice are that (most) guys won't be trying to get in your pants, and so they won't be automatically interested in you or who you are. That jokes and 'ribbing' is less of a deal to men among themselves, and getting offended at it is less healthy than just brushing it off and not caring. It's generally harder to initially 'connect' with guys, but once you have, they can be pretty steadfast. There isn't a huge amount of "culture" to learn, and it's most easily learned by observing, if it doesn't come as naturally as you hoped. If you do have any particularly feminine mannerisms it can be noticed, if you don't want to attract any attention that way study how guys tend to walk, talk and move in general.
Moving into a new role is sometimes a pretty steep learning curve. I didn't have anybody to work with me so I observed when ever possible instead of participating. The one time I was really blindsided was when a co worker ask me for a tampon. I didn't have one, never used one and wasn't exactly sure what to do. In hind sight, I was fresh post surgical and should have offered one of the pads I had in my purse but I was so shaken by the question I didn't think of it until latter.
My advice to you is to work on your interest that you can discuss and use them as fall back topics. If they are normally considered masculine, that would be better however something like music would also be a possibility. Nobody is interested in everything or knows everything but having your own interests will allow you to fit in.
Will you make a mistake from time to time? It's likely but that's how you learn.
Thank you for all the replies, everyone! I appreciate the help. I feel a little better. Replies helped me realized it'll just take time.
I am one year on T and pass about 85% of the time. I watch men in a way that I never did before. I watch how they interact with each other. I find they are not as vocal when greeting each other and they use a lot of head nods. Shaving has been fun to learn. I have asked guy friends about technique in shaving and I have found the secret is in having a good new razor. Also trying to observe how guys pee without getting my ass kicked for being overly watchful has been tricky. I have a pretty good STP and can pee standing up without much difficulty but find that I prefer the stahl than the urinal because I still like to wipe after. in the stahl they see my feet facing the toilet and can't see me wipe. Sitting like a dude is something I have always done but shaking hands randomly is something that I have to get used to. Youtube is great for many questions on how too....It does feel great going into the barber and not having those weird looks. The inbetween was really awkward but now it is much easier. Keep living your truth.
For me I worry about not fitting in with the men but at the same time I don't nor have I ever fit in with women either so I guess nothing is chamging at all, and I'm worried for nothing.
Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk
I have not really had this concern as I don't hangout with non-queer folks. I don't hang out with many cis people and the ones I do hang out with are very trans inclusive or gender bending in some way. However, I am concerned if I decide to go stealth, how much do I have my queerness be apart of who I am with cis friends? Do I talk about my partner and I as a "straight couple"? How do I navigate sexist or transphobic conversations?
These things are more of a concern to me right now.
For you, I would say just be yourself. I think if you just act the way you feel most comfortable people won't look at you and wonder "is that a woman under there?". They will most likely become your best friends or will leave and it will be their loss. I wouldn't say there is any one way to be "a guy". I don't think you can get it wrong. We're trans. We're breaking all the rules anyway, why not change the social binary of how men should act?
i pass 100% but i still fear that my voice isn't deep enough, or my body isn't masculine enough. yet nothing ever happens. i feel like we innately worry about the 'what ifs' because we've spent our entire lives being broken down, judged, and criticized for simply living.
but here's the thing.... just like with girls, there are different 'groups' of guys. there are going to be d*cks (bad word choice?? lol) wherever you go, regardless of gender. but there are also going to be some down to earth people, you've just gotta look. find something that you really enjoy (for me, it's video games) and go from there.
Did you ever socialize with guys before, have male friends? I'm stealth to a few people and it's been really easy because I had that past experience. I only worry about being outed when I'm all over trans sites on the internet, lol. Hard to explain that one.
If you haven't socialized with guys a lot it'll actually be easier than going through puberty as a guy because the social stakes are (usually) lower than in high school. You're not going to get beat up or ostracized just because you're different (unless you're gay, there are still gay bashers around). It's okay not to be an expert on sports although it's good to know a little so you can talk about it like you talk about the weather. Guys who are friends will tease each other a lot, guys who don't know each other can be pretty friendly. I was surprised by friendly strangers because I used to get unwanted attention as a girl. But it's no different from when women in public strike up conversations.
honestly, men are really easy to get along with. i pass 100% and in every aspect of my life, i am constantly around males. i chose to go into a very male dominated field and being in school for that, it's a class of 80, and there is about 10 girls. at both my jobs, it is mostly men. hell, my one job i only work with two women. it is weird in the beginning getting to be seen as a man, but you get used to it. there is a lot of joking/making fun of each other. but as palexander said, there is different "groups" of men, like there is women. you eventually i guess find the groups you gravitate towards. however, i still have mostly female friends and get along with women better. for me, some aspects are still weird like talking about women (in the way men do..degrading or sexual most of the time) so i tend to stay more quiet in those situations.
Okay, gonna be annoying and reply to (mostly) everyone who commented recently because I like to. Sorry for the semi-late reply.
Quote from: VictorMike on January 23, 2017, 07:48:08 PM
I am one year on T and pass about 85% of the time. I watch men in a way that I never did before. I watch how they interact with each other. I find they are not as vocal when greeting each other and they use a lot of head nods. Shaving has been fun to learn. I have asked guy friends about technique in shaving and I have found the secret is in having a good new razor. Also trying to observe how guys pee without getting my ass kicked for being overly watchful has been tricky. I have a pretty good STP and can pee standing up without much difficulty but find that I prefer the stahl than the urinal because I still like to wipe after. in the stahl they see my feet facing the toilet and can't see me wipe. Sitting like a dude is something I have always done but shaking hands randomly is something that I have to get used to. Youtube is great for many questions on how too....It does feel great going into the barber and not having those weird looks. The inbetween was really awkward but now it is much easier. Keep living your truth.
This is VERY interesting. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm anxious about the awkward in-between stage... I feel repulsed already by what I'll be like when it happens, but it's inevitable and worth it. I can find humor in the awkwardness of all these things before they happen to me. When the time comes I'll be very embarrassed, ha. I try to watch men in an observant way now, but it's hard. I think I'll be like you and get better at it when I actually fit in somewhat. Notice things I wouldn't have before.
Again, thank you for all the advice and support.
Quote from: kings joker on January 23, 2017, 08:11:43 PM
I have not really had this concern as I don't hangout with non-queer folks. I don't hang out with many cis people and the ones I do hang out with are very trans inclusive or gender bending in some way. However, I am concerned if I decide to go stealth, how much do I have my queerness be apart of who I am with cis friends? Do I talk about my partner and I as a "straight couple"? How do I navigate sexist or transphobic conversations?
These things are more of a concern to me right now.
For you, I would say just be yourself. I think if you just act the way you feel most comfortable people won't look at you and wonder "is that a woman under there?". They will most likely become your best friends or will leave and it will be their loss. I wouldn't say there is any one way to be "a guy". I don't think you can get it wrong. We're trans. We're breaking all the rules anyway, why not change the social binary of how men should act?
In all honesty, most of my friends are gay/bi or trans as well. Wasn't intentional but I'm not complaining. I worry for interaction with strangers and acquaintances later in life. I worry for going stealth, as you do too, for some of the same reasons. My boyfriend is also trans, so we're gay no matter if you see as as girls or guys. :laugh:
I appreciate the advice on being myself. I think I'll stop worrying about if I "act like a dude" once I feel I pass as one. Then I'll just have to learn how to handle being weird the same way cis guys do.
Thank you for the advice and support!
Quote from: palexander on January 23, 2017, 08:23:24 PM
i pass 100% but i still fear that my voice isn't deep enough, or my body isn't masculine enough. yet nothing ever happens. i feel like we innately worry about the 'what ifs' because we've spent our entire lives being broken down, judged, and criticized for simply living.
but here's the thing.... just like with girls, there are different 'groups' of guys. there are going to be d*cks (bad word choice?? lol) wherever you go, regardless of gender. but there are also going to be some down to earth people, you've just gotta look. find something that you really enjoy (for me, it's video games) and go from there.
This is all true! Us trans people obsess over gender in general while no one else really cares about all the little details we notice and worry about (usually). I think I am only worrying about fitting in since I don't even pass yet... Once I pass, then I'll have time to worry about being the "different" dude, if I do end up being that. I'll have to learn how guys deal with that. It'll be an interesting journey. I'll also have to choose video games as my "thing." ;D
Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on January 24, 2017, 06:41:49 AM
Did you ever socialize with guys before, have male friends? I'm stealth to a few people and it's been really easy because I had that past experience. I only worry about being outed when I'm all over trans sites on the internet, lol. Hard to explain that one.
If you haven't socialized with guys a lot it'll actually be easier than going through puberty as a guy because the social stakes are (usually) lower than in high school. You're not going to get beat up or ostracized just because you're different (unless you're gay, there are still gay bashers around). It's okay not to be an expert on sports although it's good to know a little so you can talk about it like you talk about the weather. Guys who are friends will tease each other a lot, guys who don't know each other can be pretty friendly. I was surprised by friendly strangers because I used to get unwanted attention as a girl. But it's no different from when women in public strike up conversations.
I don't have a large amount of male friends, and never have. One of the things that make me feel "less trans" I'll have to admit... I never felt I fit in with girls, but I never tried to fit in with guys either. I know lots of trans men who always fit in with dudes.
I wish you luck with being stealth! I worry about somehow being found out on trans sites as well. It's more of an unreasonable fear for me though.
Yeah lol, I worry about how other dudes would treat me for being bi. I only know how other girls treat it. I don't mean to sound whiny when I say that. It'll be the same thing with more casual things like not caring about sports. Cis dudes must feel the same when they're bi/gay or don't care about sports. I'll just have to learn how to deal with it like them. It'll be interesting.
NOT getting unwanted attention is gonna be odd but cool. One of the things I'm looking forward to is just having casual convos with guys the way I do with girls.
Thanks for all the support and advice! I appreciate it.
Quote from: invisiblemonsters on January 24, 2017, 02:34:02 PM
honestly, men are really easy to get along with. i pass 100% and in every aspect of my life, i am constantly around males. i chose to go into a very male dominated field and being in school for that, it's a class of 80, and there is about 10 girls. at both my jobs, it is mostly men. hell, my one job i only work with two women. it is weird in the beginning getting to be seen as a man, but you get used to it. there is a lot of joking/making fun of each other. but as palexander said, there is different "groups" of men, like there is women. you eventually i guess find the groups you gravitate towards. however, i still have mostly female friends and get along with women better. for me, some aspects are still weird like talking about women (in the way men do..degrading or sexual most of the time) so i tend to stay more quiet in those situations.
Yeah, I think I'm just worrying too much at the moment. When I actually transition, I'm sure I'll get along with men just fine. I'm pretty used to joking around with friends, but I still think it'll take some getting used to as guys seem to do it with each other way more. I'm glad to see someone else who gets along with women more. It makes me feel a bit insecure around other trans men who have always been the opposite. But oh man, I never thought about being in situations in which guys talk about girls that way, lol. I'll have to be quiet too. That sounds terribly awkward.
Thank you for all the advice and support!
So I've found that cis men are commonly stereotyped and placed into this rigid box. They're all very different though. I find I get along with the sort that are more thoughtful, worldly, knowledgeable, and don't try to be super macho men. They're just as confident and secure in their masculinity. Artsy guys, musicians, educators etc. I find that I am into more traditional manly things than a lot of cis men. I do not get on well with classic guy guys. And that's OK. I really feel that if I were born male it would still be that way. Trans folks tend to get stuck in the pattern of mimicking what we think it's like to be a man or woman. There's so much more variety and nuance to the cis existence though.
Quote from: CMD042414 on January 28, 2017, 08:15:20 PM
So I've found that cis men are commonly stereotyped and placed into this rigid box. They're all very different though. I find I get along with the sort that are more thoughtful, worldly, knowledgeable, and don't try to be super macho men. They're just as confident and secure in their masculinity. Artsy guys, musicians, educators etc. I find that I am into more traditional manly things than a lot of cis men. I do not get on well with classic guy guys. And that's OK. I really feel that if I were born male it would still be that way. Trans folks tend to get stuck in the pattern of mimicking what we think it's like to be a man or woman. There's so much more variety and nuance to the cis existence though.
I agree. I know that sounds contradictory to my worries, but I do logically know that cis men can be very different and I have nothing to worry about. I'll just have to wait until I physically experience being treated as one, mainly interacted with other guys, etc. to truly
feel it, you know? Until then, I'll just be anxious.
I also worry about in the future when I start transitioning will I make a good man? I feel inadequate having lived my life as a woman and a physically weak one at that. I'm not good at mechanical stuff or athletic but I would like to be. One of the things I'd like to do is take carpentry classes some day.
What makes a good man....
I'd just go with trying to be the man you want to be and not worry about living according to rigid stereotypes or generic standards. The point of transition is to not live a lie and feel "right", so I'd aim for being what you are comfortable with.
Quote from: alienbodybuilder on January 29, 2017, 02:23:11 PM
I also worry about in the future when I start transitioning will I make a good man? I feel inadequate having lived my life as a woman and a physically weak one at that. I'm not good at mechanical stuff or athletic but I would like to be. One of the things I'd like to do is take carpentry classes some day.
Why wait? Do it now. Get a head start on your manliness.
I will say - there's no shame in being bad at mechanical things or not being athletic. There are plenty of guys out there that aren't. If those are things you want to be good at, it just takes work like anything else in life. There are loads of videos on YouTube that can teach you practically anything. I've learned how to fix a lot of different car things and learned a lot about lifting and fitness based completely on YouTube videos.
Quote from: FTMax on January 29, 2017, 06:39:03 PM
Why wait? Do it now. Get a head start on your manliness.
I will say - there's no shame in being bad at mechanical things or not being athletic. There are plenty of guys out there that aren't. If those are things you want to be good at, it just takes work like anything else in life. There are loads of videos on YouTube that can teach you practically anything. I've learned how to fix a lot of different car things and learned a lot about lifting and fitness based completely on YouTube videos.
That's great advice Max. Those are just things I'd like to be good at. I'm into lifting and fitness already, but haven't been to the gym in ages because of life circumstances I've gained weight. I hope to get back to lifting and cardio soon.
Quote from: alienbodybuilder on January 29, 2017, 02:23:11 PM
I also worry about in the future when I start transitioning will I make a good man? I feel inadequate having lived my life as a woman and a physically weak one at that. I'm not good at mechanical stuff or athletic but I would like to be. One of the things I'd like to do is take carpentry classes some day.
I work at a college. I meet young people all day. So many cis guys are not athletic and/or are bad at mechanical things. Like more than most. Being born with a penis doesn't mean they have a manual given with their birth certificates on how to do "man" stuff. Pre transition I wasn't good at mechanical stuff at all. Now I have a full set of tools and I'm going to remodel my bathroom with a friend. Like FTMax said, I YouTubed it. Cis guys that are good with cars, and tools, and building things would probably say they learned by doing and asking.
You know the best part of being trans in the world we're in now is how much more freedom society has given to be the kind of man you want to be. I only socialize in cis majority spaces now. Guys are up front about saying I'm not good with my hands at all or I'm not into cars or sports. And no one bats an eyelash.
Yeah you can teach yourself pretty much anything. At one point my parents went to the library and pulled everything on carpentry and guitar making, bought a few startup tools and started their own luthiery business. Took my dad about a year and a half to learn to make a guitar and lute by hand making all the molds himself in the medieval technique, and for ten years after that he was making/selling them professionally to well-known guitarists. By doing it he also became a damn good carpenter and built most of our furniture. You just need the desire to learn and a few basic tools/wood/workbench to get started.
Quote from: CMD042414 on January 29, 2017, 09:51:38 PM
I work at a college. I meet young people all day. So many cis guys are not athletic and/or are bad at mechanical things. Like more than most. Being born with a penis doesn't mean they have a manual given with their birth certificates on how to do "man" stuff. Pre transition I wasn't good at mechanical stuff at all. Now I have a full set of tools and I'm going to remodel my bathroom with a friend. Like FTMax said, I YouTubed it. Cis guys that are good with cars, and tools, and building things would probably say they learned by doing and asking.
You know the best part of being trans in the world we're in now is how much more freedom society has given to be the kind of man you want to be. I only socialize in cis majority spaces now. Guys are up front about saying I'm not good with my hands at all or I'm not into cars or sports. And no one bats an eyelash.
Thanks, I'm sure you're right.
Quote from: Kylo on January 30, 2017, 05:21:08 AM
Yeah you can teach yourself pretty much anything. At one point my parents went to the library and pulled everything on carpentry and guitar making, bought a few startup tools and started their own luthiery business. Took my dad about a year and a half to learn to make a guitar and lute by hand making all the molds himself in the medieval technique, and for ten years after that he was making/selling them professionally to well-known guitarists. By doing it he also became a damn good carpenter and built most of our furniture. You just need the desire to learn and a few basic tools/wood/workbench to get started.
The problem with the carpentry thing is space. I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment. I might have to weight 20 years or until I have my own home with a yard.
Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 10, 2017, 02:37:27 PM
The problem with the carpentry thing is space. I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment. I might have to weight 20 years or until I have my own home with a yard.
Some cities have hobby shops or wood shops that have every piece of equipment you could want. For a fee you can have access to the shop and work on any project you desire. The word "Maker" may be associated with shops of this nature. Turn out a few items for yourself, a few for family or friends and you might be ready to sell a few items. Wood work is not very difficult as long as you are willing to spend the time to do it right. When you get in a hurry is when the quality goes down hill.
Quote from: alienbodybuilder on February 10, 2017, 02:37:27 PM
The problem with the carpentry thing is space. I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment. I might have to weight 20 years or until I have my own home with a yard.
My place is tiny. But, I craft for a living, there's no avoiding it. Divided the main room into one section for a lounge and the rest behind it is my desks/workspaces. Not ideal but can be done. Carpentry is messy, but if you put sheets down you can get the sawdust and chips up easy.
I'm very nervous around straight cis guys, still. try to get through my interactions as quickly as possible.
But I never had many cis guy friends. The few cis guy friends I've had been queer. There are no rules that say you have to hang out with only dudes after you start to transition. I hang out almost entirely with women. Stay with the people who make you feel most comfortable. It's not like transitioning makes you a different person on the inside--just on the outside. :)
Quote from: VictorMike on January 23, 2017, 07:48:08 PM
I am one year on T and pass about 85% of the time. ................
Also trying to observe how guys pee without getting my ass kicked for being overly watchful has been tricky. I have a pretty good STP and can pee standing up without much difficulty but find that I prefer the stahl than the urinal because I still like to wipe after. in the stahl they see my feet facing the toilet and can't see me wipe. ..............
keep living your truth.
Peeing would not be a problem if you can be comfortable with sitting. The other men will not take notice if you sit but they might if you are seen using a STP at a urinal.
I still present as male but have sat full time since 1997 and nobody has taken notice. The biggest problem is the lack of stalls in most men's restrooms. It would be nice if I could use the female restroom.
Quote from: lc100 on January 23, 2017, 05:33:34 PM
Despite knowing these things, my emotions just run wild when I think about having only male roommates, etc.
I'm also worried about not fitting in with them once I look the part. I'm not used to the standards placed on men because I did not grow up as one. The thought of having to learn all that is exciting but scary. I'm scared I'll be too feminine for them in some way or another.
.....................
Most men don't take that much notice in casual situations.
What is your situation where you will have male roommates? Under that situation it might more difficult to keep your condition private (using restroom, showering, changing clothes, etc.).
Men aren't very hard to understand. I have grouped with male since birth. At school, at work, in hobbies. Men are easier to befriend than women. Women are so complex, overthinking situations, having emotions included in every thought. Men are simple, either it is ok or it is not. That is my oppinion.
Quote from: MeTonie on February 15, 2017, 01:25:13 AM
Men aren't very hard to understand. I have grouped with male since birth. At school, at work, in hobbies. Men are easier to befriend than women. Women are so complex, overthinking situations, having emotions included in every thought. Men are simple, either it is ok or it is not. That is my oppinion.
I don't want anyone to be angry now. I have seen this at work. I am a supervisor at work and have a lot of contact with my co workers.