if not, then why does "god exists but i don't believe it" sound contradictory?
No. They're not equivalent. I don't think stating 'God exists' is accurate. I'm not comfortable with statements that are devoid of evidence. 'I believe God exists' is just stating belief. And way more fitting, as religion is nothing if not belief in that which cannot be proven.
Hmmmmm.....They are the same. The problem is the second phrase. When people say they don't believe in God, they could be saying one of two things:
First, they could be saying "I don't believe in God in the same way that I don't believe in the man in the moon, IOW non-existent"
The second way to use that phrase would be like saying "I don't believe in God in the same way that I don't believe in California's law protections for transsexuals ;D." It exists, but I don't have much confidence in it. So, it really depends on what you mean by "believe", IOW which definition you use. "God exists, but I don't believe in Him" is not a contradiction.
But the way you worded your phrase, would be like saying "the moon exists, but I don't believe it", now *that* is a logical contradiction. :P
tink :icon_chick:
I think it comes to to scientific evidence in regards to belief for some. Me, I personally don't know, nor will I ever know if there is some supernatural power looking over everything and everyone, although it's difficult to imagine.
As to your statement, god exists I think is a broad statement in which someone can take differently. To me, it's like a personal opinion that's being forced at everyone who reads it. It's like there are facts to prove that God exists, so it's not a belief, it's just god exists.
For the I believe god exists, that's merely someones belief. To me, it sounds less invasive and is simply stating their opinion. This could do with like religion, personal experiences, or cultural influences I think.
Quotesupernatural power
Is just framing the unknown.
Well, the sentences in question are not equivalent. God exists is a declaration of knowledge, where it is certain that God exists. The other sentence, I believe God exists, is the declaration of knowledge, where you believe (but do not know) that God exists. Therefore, just by analyzing each of them as sentences, it's pretty clear that they're not equal. o_O
*bonks head against wall* Sorry, I've been learning BNF rules in Discrete Mathematics.
If you believe in a reality outside of your own existence, then they are not logically equivalent.
"God exists but I don't believe it" sounds contradictory only because someone who doesn't believe in God would not utter "God exists"....but your belief does not define reality...unless...see first line. ;)
Few people care about perfect grammar and syntax.
no they are not equivalent because:-
"god exists"-means that there is no doubt and it is a statement! Like a fact!
"i believe god exists"- seems to come down to faith. If you were to say "I have to believe god exists" then it would be an equivalent with a fact like "god exists"
If "god exists" is a fact then you would have to prove it. Which seems to beg the Question "What or who is God?"
Anyone who claims to be an athiest is saying exactly what you said: god exists but I dont believe it. In order to dismiss something, one has to first acknowledge its existence. So it may sound funny, but its absolutely true in terms of athiests. To say God exists is to say unequivocally that this entity is somewhere, but it all depends on how its said, who says it, and so on its context specific. I can say God exists while watching a sunset, and say God exists? while watching a war rage on. To say I believe God exists is more accurate because something that cant be proven is always just belief.
According to Nagualism these statements are incorrect and illogical. Countless Naguals died attempting to seek out an entity such as God. According to thousands of years of unbelieable feats those that survived found no evidence that a God exists. According to them if you cant see God then God is not there!
According to another Ancient religion- Judaism. God states "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end!"
Sounds a bit schizophrenic to me! Or Contradictory. Certainly not logical. What about inbetween the beginning and the end.
But I do have faith that a God exists- like a creator or something. An architect. Because it is an intellegent design! ( The Universe or wonderverse as I call it) God just seems to be above and beyond evrything. Therefor undetectable.
This is a really interesting thread and I like all the posts in reply. I agree that saying 'God exists' is stating a fact and opens up to more questioning while 'I believe God exists' is your personal belief and cannot be denied. No one can circumstantially prove God exists, as we can't prove that a soul exists. But I believe they both exist and have enough evidence to prove it to myself, but to no one else.
Quote from: Nero on November 09, 2007, 02:46:40 PM
No. They're not equivalent. I don't think stating 'God exists' is accurate. I'm not comfortable with statements that are devoid of evidence. 'I believe God exists' is just stating belief. And way more fitting, as religion is nothing if not belief in that which cannot be proven.
I would have to agree with you there. Belief is something that if you try to argue you are considered looking down upon someones way of life. Facts are the things that are disputed everyday. Yet if someone comes onto your bus while you are waiting for it to leave the station and starts preaching that "you need to believe in god for he exists and only he can save you from your evil ways." I by all means want to beat the person upside the head and tell them to get off my bus. I despise the people that go around trying to make you conform to their religion because they believe you need to be saved.
Thats just my opinion (and also the reason I dont ride the bus anymore)
Quote from: celibi87 on November 21, 2007, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Nero on November 09, 2007, 02:46:40 PM
No. They're not equivalent. I don't think stating 'God exists' is accurate. I'm not comfortable with statements that are devoid of evidence. 'I believe God exists' is just stating belief. And way more fitting, as religion is nothing if not belief in that which cannot be proven.
I would have to agree with you there. Belief is something that if you try to argue you are considered looking down upon someones way of life. Facts are the things that are disputed everyday. Yet if someone comes onto your bus while you are waiting for it to leave the station and starts preaching that "you need to believe in god for he exists and only he can save you from your evil ways." I by all means want to beat the person upside the head and tell them to get off my bus. I despise the people that go around trying to make you conform to their religion because they believe you need to be saved.
Thats just my opinion (and also the reason I dont ride the bus anymore)
Thats fair enough! I cant stand Bible bashes either!