When I first began posting here, I made myself look very indecisive about who I was or wanted to be. I said I wanted to be a woman, but now my perspective has almost shifted.
- Now that I see these stories about Trans discrimination, and how it's on the increase under our new political climate, it makes me less confident about my ability to get by. I also don't want to be the "deer caught in headlights".
- I probably have issues because of lack of confidence, boring lifestyle, etc. I probably cannot directly relate this to being Transgender. Also I don't "feel" there's an issue with my gender, except for a wish to be or look like a woman somewhere in the back of my head.
- I feel more aware that since I was born and raised in a smaller less progressive community, that I will not "make it" as a woman if I wanted to become one, whether physically transition or otherwise.
- I tend to be pretty young-ish and immature looking by physical appearance. I also seem to have a "fixed" monotone, nasal voice and lack of control. I will never be able to achieve a feminine, non-monotonous sound. No matter what voice tips I read, I can't seem to put it into practice. I am not very confident in my ability to practice and get better.
Confidence comes from within. Im not one to preach (as i too have my own confidence issues) but it is true. In short of that for some trans folk it is hard to be confiedent in who one is when their gender or expression is one of a fake. I get the not wanting bad attention (discrimination), but at some point one will have to come face to face with it. When i was full time and to a lesser degree even now when i am her/me 85% of the time i still gotta deal with that kinda crap. If you can stay your assigned gender all the power to ya! but also look at it like this, if you having been dealing with gender issues for a long time they probably wont go away (mine havent no matter how hard i try to push them). Perhaps looking at things through a binary lense may also be stunting your growth potential with your idenity. My two cents.
I too had the same concerns you have. It was tearing me apart. So what to do...I stopped and said "I can beat this.". Three months later I was losing my mind, both figuratively and literally. It almost destroyed my life.
My thought for you is to watch yourself. Find a friend who will be honest with you that you trust with your life to watch for mood/attitude/temperament changes. My wife saw almost right away but didn't understand what it meant; I was in a downward spiral.
Please be careful.
Your online friend,
Dee
Pretty much nobody who is trans wants to be.
Quote from: redhot1 on January 24, 2017, 10:09:37 PM
I don't "feel" there's an issue with my gender, except for a wish to be or look like a woman somewhere in the back of my head.
That's a pretty big "except for" dear. Sadly just because we sometimes don't want to be transgender or even how we look or where we live or how difficult it is for our society or our friends and family to deal with has very little (pretty much nothing at all) to do with it.
Denial isn'the just a river in Egypt and we all swim regularly in it. We live our lives trying to be what society expects us to be, knowing somewhere inside that we aren't. We fight it because we want to be a "normal" man or woman. We blame ourselves for everything that is wrong in our lives...failed relationships, social isolation, never being good at anything...the list goes on. We live in this fantasy world because we are "supposed" to, not because we want to. Self-doubt is a security blanket for us. We live in its warm cocoon and tell ourselves that we can overcome this. Which is insanity because we never do. We keep doing the same things, expecting a different result. It doesn't work. I wasted 32 years of my life not living authentically. I have come to the conclusion that if the word trans enters your mind, you are. If everyone hides under a rock, the narrow-minded win. As was previously stated, it isn't your issue, it is society's.
You have to be true to yourself...no one else will be.
Sweetie. Fear is a very powerful weapon. It is brutal to the very core of a person, robbing them of the ability to be rational, at the times when they need to be most rational.
As Jane Emily has said, the desire to look like a woman is one of the very core definitions of being trans - we may not feel it, we may feel we can get by, and a few of us do, but at the reckoning, you know that how you present, and how you are perceived is different to how you wish to be perceived.
Being youngish looking, is a good sign, that dear old T has not done much to push your body to build masculine markers.
It's all too easy to be wrapped up in the glamour of looking like the perfect woman. The only problem is that <1% of the natal population would reasonably fall into that category.
let's do the blue pill/ red pill experiment. If I told you that you could transition now, and look feminine, and that your voice would be convincing, and that you would be accepted within your community would you do it?
Rowan
Given that trans people face hostility and discrimination from society, it's no surprise that people don't "choose" to become trans. Generally, trans is something you ARE, not something you BECOME. If you ARE trans, it doesn't go away just because you try to ignore it or because you make a decision to resist it.
You're a young person, and it may be that you have paid attention here at Susan's mostly to others who face similar problems related to struggling to find your own way in the face of resistance from parents, family, school, etc. That's certainly logical. But I would invite you to spend some time reading posts from folks who transitioned much later in life. Many of them recount a long history of pain and struggle to fit in with their assigned gender identity and to ignore or repress an alternate gender identity coming up from inside. Many of them regret having "wasted" many years of their lives in futilely denying who they really were.
I feel for you. You are stuck in a conservative family and community. Probably there are no other people openly gay or trans in your immediate world. You feel what you feel, but probably there's nobody in your life you can open up to. The life you live now seems like being suffocated in a closet.
Maybe the issue of "trans or not trans?" is not what you should focus on now. Maybe the right thing to focus on is building your personal independence. Succeed in school. Make some friends. Get a job. Make the jump when you are able to a bigger and more progressive place to live. You'll find a lot of options will open up that you can't even imagine now.
You think your personality is flat and boring. I think that's because you keep trying to fit into a flat and boring environment, so you're suppressing how complex you really are. (You sound pretty thoughtful and emotional in here!) Get into a more open space, and you'll be surprised how your personality opens up.
Being monotone takes some work. Find someone you admire. Me, I chose Meryl Streep. Watch interviews and look for clues in mannerisms. Meryl tends to touch her face a lot. She emphasizes point by moving her hand. Notice that she maintains eye contact, she smiles and laughs a lot. You can see her confidence. The three things to work on are pitch, my goal is F3 or 175 Htz. 80 % of the time. Resonance This requires retraining to creating the voice up in your head instead of your chest. When you speak letters like m there should be a little tingle in your lips. This is evidence you are doing it right. Lastly breath, Practice breathing from your diaphragm rather than the chest will help the resonance. To start using a guitar tuner app like Da Tuner to monitor your pitch. Once this is set up on your cell phone you can use it anywhere. Again you want to keep in the F3 area. My speech therapist says that F3 is an androgynous pitch but many women's voices operate in this range. Do pitch glides. Sort of Do ra mi fa so la te do raising your pitch incrementally. Practice by holding your pitch. Use the sound ME, ME, ME to find it. Da Tuner will tell you if you are within range. After a few weeks of practice and you can find your pitch fairly easily, start expanding out from words to phrases to whole paragraphs. I'm one of those monotone people also, but I can now do fairly well holding a conversation. The irony being that when I identified as the other person sharing my body. My being an introvert prevented me from holding conversations. Don't be so hard on yourself. Anything can be learned if you do the prep.
Dawn
Quote from: redhot1 on January 24, 2017, 10:09:37 PM
- I probably have issues because of lack of confidence, boring lifestyle, etc. I probably cannot directly relate this to being Transgender. Also I don't "feel" there's an issue with my gender, except for a wish to be or look like a woman somewhere in the back of my head.
- I feel more aware that since I was born and raised in a smaller less progressive community, that I will not "make it" as a woman if I wanted to become one, whether physically transition or otherwise.
Until 3 years ago (when I was 60), I couldn't relate to being transgender, either. And I had no "wish to be or look like a woman." I had never felt like "a woman trapped in a man's body," which is all I knew about being (MtF) trans. And I still don't.
But I now realize it isn't really about being or looking like a woman. It's about being and looking like yourself. In my case, it was about allowing myself to be the self that I'd suppressed for almost all my life. It just happens that the self I let out fits far better into the gender "woman" (and sometimes "little girl") than the gender "man."
I hope I will be accepted as a woman (or some version thereof), because it would be nice to no longer feel like a member of some almost extinct grotesque extraterrestrial alien species. But just getting to be me, in all my silliness and weirdness, is like getting out of prison. Like I was imprisoned as a very small child out of bigotry for a crime I didn't commit, and my conviction has finally been overturned.
Quote from: redhot1 on January 24, 2017, 10:09:37 PM
- I tend to be pretty young-ish and immature looking by physical appearance. I also seem to have a "fixed" monotone, nasal voice and lack of control. I will never be able to achieve a feminine, non-monotonous sound. No matter what voice tips I read, I can't seem to put it into practice. I am not very confident in my ability to practice and get better.
Unfortunately, in the (MtF) trans community, there's this image of what a "real woman" looks and acts and sounds like, and not being like that is seen as "failing." But to measure yourself by an unreal standard and judge yourself is exactly what we all were doing before we accepted that we were trans. IMHO, it's trying to be something that is contrary to our essential nature and does violence to it that really kills us.
It doesn't just happen around gender. There are people working at jobs that eat away at their souls, but they stay because it's what their parents wanted from them, or because they are well paying enough to support a lifestyle they are supposed to want. And eventually they find that, having denied themselves that which would give their life meaning, death is the only thing they have left to look forward to. (That was me, 15 years ago.)
Quote from: Kylo on January 25, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
Pretty much nobody who is trans wants to be.
But if that's who you are (that is, someone with a nature that this meshuggene society labels "trans"), then to not want to be trans is to not want to be yourself.
(Of course our whole society and economy are based around convincing people to not want to be themselves, but someone else, preferrably someone who it's impossible to be.)
Quote from: Kylo on January 25, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
Pretty much nobody who is trans wants to be.
i want this more than anything. i think it's awesome. yeah, im pretty new to accepting myself as trans, but really this is the first time in my life that i've felt like a human being. we are so very lucky to be alive at this time, to have options like HRT and surgery, to have decades of feminism. and the internet allows us to connect globally, to share our experiences and learn from each other. everyday doesn't have to be wonderful, and many of them can feel terrible. but i don't just want to be trans, i need to be.
Quote from: redhot1 on January 24, 2017, 10:09:37 PM
- Now that I see these stories about Trans discrimination, and how it's on the increase under our new political climate, it makes me less confident about my ability to get by. I also don't want to be the "deer caught in headlights".
- I probably have issues because of lack of confidence, boring lifestyle, etc. I probably cannot directly relate this to being Transgender. Also I don't "feel" there's an issue with my gender, except for a wish to be or look like a woman somewhere in the back of my head.
- I feel more aware that since I was born and raised in a smaller less progressive community, that I will not "make it" as a woman if I wanted to become one, whether physically transition or otherwise.
- I tend to be pretty young-ish and immature looking by physical appearance. I also seem to have a "fixed" monotone, nasal voice and lack of control. I will never be able to achieve a feminine, non-monotonous sound. No matter what voice tips I read, I can't seem to put it into practice. I am not very confident in my ability to practice and get better.
The reasons you have listed are not reasons why a person is not transgender. They are the reasons why a person who is transgender decides not to transition.
I don't want to be transgender, either. I want to be MYSELF, and society happens to draw a box around that and labels the box "transgender".
So be it. I can't change society all by myself, but I can be the best version of MYSELF possible, and try to erase that box for myself and others.
My goal isn't some set of arbitrary social criteria, or to follow some program laid out by others. I want to be MYSELF, and damn the box and those who want me hidden inside it. I'm following MY transition path, for ME.
Selfish, huh? It's about damn time I thought to put myself above the transitory discomfort of others.
Isn't about time you did the same?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alot of the vocal training jargon is based in training for singing, which may as well be Greek to the musically illiterate! :o
Quote from: JMJW on January 25, 2017, 07:22:21 PM
Alot of the vocal training jargon is based in training for singing, which may as well be Greek to the musically illiterate! :o
We have a voice section on the site and members are more than willing to help you develop a feminine voice. Much of the discussion is about surgery but we tend to start with therapy before considering surgery as the recovery is long and surgery has risks associated with it. After all, if you don't need surgery, why pay all the money for it.
Transsexual is something you are, not something you either wish or wish not to be. If you consider this a choice, I would urge you to get into therapy before you make rash decisions that can't be undone. If you don't feel your self to be innately female, then you most likely aren't. Nothing wrong with that at all. Actually, consider your self blessed.
Wanting to be pretty or feeling feminine or liking girly things or liking hanging out with girls seem to be recurring things I hear that lead people to believe the are TS. Nothing could be further from the truth. Again, if you can make the choice, you're probably not Transsexual. At the very least, you need to think about it a lot harder and speak to a professional trained in Trans issues. Good luck.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 25, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Transsexual is something you are, not something you either wish or wish not to be. If you consider this a choice, I would urge you to get into therapy before you make rash decisions that can't be undone. If you don't feel your self to be innately female, then you most likely aren't. Nothing wrong with that at all. Actually, consider your self blessed.
Wanting to be pretty or feeling feminine or liking girly things or liking hanging out with girls seem to be recurring things I hear that lead people to believe the are TS. Nothing could be further from the truth. Again, if you can make the choice, you're probably not Transsexual. At the very least, you need to think about it a lot harder and speak to a professional trained in Trans issues. Good luck.
Please please PLEASE only take that advice with a grain of salt. The truth is if you are uncomfortable with you birth gender and have been for quite sometime you are trans. 99% of the time. The question that is to be properly asked however is were on the spectrum do you lie. Therapy will be your best bet to uncover all sorts of feelings you may have regarding transition. You may discover you are non binary or even perhaps a full out transsexual. But please, go get help to find out. You may discover that you are indeed a full blown female buried under lots of doubt and societys conditioning! It will take a lot of work and hard thinking to know for sure though but you can do it <3
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 25, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Transsexual is something you are, not something you either wish or wish not to be. If you consider this a choice, I would urge you to get into therapy before you make rash decisions that can't be undone. If you don't feel your self to be innately female, then you most likely aren't.
I beg to differ.
I have never felt myself to be "innately female" and still don't, and I know other transsexuals who don't either. Yet the experience of transition has made clear to us that transition was the right choice. The idea that you have to feel yourself to be "innately female" (or "innately male") in order to be trans was the biggest barrier I had to recognizing that I was.
I in fact came to the realization that I was trans because I noticed that, once I let myself do what felt right to me, I was doing more and more "girly" things, mainly adding "women's" clothes to my wardrobe, even as I was insisting that I was not transgender -- because I didn't have this "I am really a woman" feeling.
I don't know what "rash" decisions there are that "can't be undone." HRT takes a long time to take effect. Social transition takes a long time -- just changing your name takes months. And most providers won't do surgery if you haven't been full-time for a year, and they want psychologists' letters, some even require you see a psychiatrist of their choice. There's plenty of time to find out from experience whether the choice is right for you.
I just know that each step I've taken on the road to living as a woman (and making my body a closer approximation to female) has made me happier and better able to function. I've thrown away the horribly-fitting shoes I wore for 60 years and I'm slowly discovering what it's like to have feet that don't ache all the time.
P.S.: that last sentence was a metaphor, in case anyone didn't get it.
Quote from: Asche on January 26, 2017, 03:03:09 PM
I beg to differ.
I have never felt myself to be "innately female" and still don't, and I know other transsexuals who don't either. Yet the experience of transition has made clear to us that transition was the right choice.
Actually, as your argument is specious... I beg to differ,
Why on earth someone would transition to the female gender when they don't feel themselves female is beyond me. I know of no women that transitioned that didn't feel they were women in an untenable situation. Transgendered is not transsexual...they are not interchangeable terms. One is not better than the other, only different. Transgender is an umbrella....transsexuals are women in mind who desire to live their life as a woman, you yourself have pointed out you don't identify this way. In fact, your signature states you are a non binary m2f, this is not a Transsexual Woman.
Why was it the right choice for you, can you please expound? What is your experience of transition? i.e., how far have you taken this journey? Hormones, Surgery, RLE? Life as a transsexual woman is life as a woman or moving in that direction with that goal in mind.
As to your other query.....I would consider vaginoplasty having gone entirely too far if you find yourself unhappy in the female role after the fact. maybe that's just me?
If you have taken steps to feminize yourself without the feeling you are a woman, you are transgendered...not transsexual, period. Not a judgement.
For your elucidation..interpret it as you please:
"Transgender/Trans: An umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs from the sex they were assigned at birth. The term transgender is not indicative of gender expression, sexual orientation, hormonal makeup, physical anatomy, or how one is perceived in daily life. Note that transgender does not have an "ed" at the end. "
"Transsexual: A depreciated term (often considered pejorative) similar to transgender in that it indicates a difference between one's gender identity and sex assigned at birth, with implications of hormonal/surgical transition from one binary gender (male or female) to the other. Unlike transgender/trans, transsexual is not an umbrella term, as many transgender people do not identify as transsexual. When speaking/writing about trans people, please avoid the word transsexual unless asked to use it by a transsexual person."
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
Why on earth someone would transition to the female gender when they don't feel themselves female is beyond me.
I pretty much described it up above.
Because having to live as a man was killing me.
I didn't realize it, of course. At the time (15 years ago), all I knew was that I didn't feel like living any more. I eventually realized that it was because I was trying to be what other people told me I had to be. I started trying to listen to my inner voice, and it kept leading me towards living and being in ways that our society insists are only for women. Each step would seem weird at first, but then I'd feel more like me than ever before. At some point, I read a blog article by a trans woman that said that you don't have to be conscious that your dysphoria is gender-related for it to be gender dysphoria; basically, you don't have to have always felt like a woman in a man's body to be trans. That's when I started to consider that I might be trans. Not too long after that, my inner voice said, "you're going to transition." Since that inner voice had been making life more and more worth living, I didn't even try to contradict it. Things kind of progressed without me having to direct them, and eventually I knew it was time to actually pick a date and schedule things so I'd be ready by then.
And, hard as it's been sometimes, I have never once had the slightest sense that it was a mistake. Even at the worst times, I've still frequently gone out the door and suddenly and to my astonishment found myself saying, "I'm so glad I'm me!" I feel more alive than I ever have in my entire life. I don't need a female "gender identity" (I never had a male one, either), I have a "me identity." At this point, I don't care what "experts" say, transition has turned my life from night into day, from faded black&white into technicolor(tm), it was
right for me!
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
What is your experience of transition? i.e., how far have you taken this journey? Hormones, Surgery, RLE? Life as a transsexual woman is life as a woman or moving in that direction with that goal in mind.
As noted in my signature, I've been on HRT for over a year and I've been full-time for a month or so, but I was Allison everywhere but at work for a year before that. I'm planning on SRS as soon as I'm eligible, which means as soon as I catch my breath, I have to get things moving.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
As to your other query.....I would consider vaginoplasty having gone entirely too far if you find yourself unhappy in the female role after the fact. maybe that's just me?
Vaginoplasty isn't next-day surgery. Most places in the US want you to have lived full-time for a year first. If you're going to find yourself unhappy in the female role, I'd think you'd notice it during that year.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
If you have taken steps to feminize yourself without the feeling you are a woman, you are transgendered...not transsexual, period. Not a judgement.
Whatever.
P.S.: if you find
my story unbelievable, I think you'd find the stories of some of my trans women friends utterly impossible. And they are all very happy living as trans women, and most have had SRS (or else are on the waiting list.)
Red Hot listen to Asche she has the right ideas
Calling any feeling innately female comes across as gender essentialism.
Quote from: Asche on January 25, 2017, 04:20:01 PM
But if that's who you are (that is, someone with a nature that this meshuggene society labels "trans"), then to not want to be trans is to not want to be yourself.
(Of course our whole society and economy are based around convincing people to not want to be themselves, but someone else, preferrably someone who it's impossible to be.)
Mostly I see people with the trans condition wishing they didn't have to deal with this problem at all and either were born in the correct body or else felt no dissociation or issues with the one they have. I consider trans to be a condition, not an identity. Some will disagree, but I don't feel in the slightest that I want to have a condition that causes dissociation, or want to be identified as someone with it, for it to be used as some kind of prefix for who I am. I want the condition to be treated, so that it is no longer a condition that I suffer, or is at least minimized.
Society doesn't have anything to do with it in my case. Society could accept me tomorrow and shower me with love and affection, or even put me on a pedestal for having this condition and it wouldn't matter. I would still have problems looking at myself in a mirror, I would still have problems with this body, seeing it, using it, tolerating it. It would still interfere severely with living a normal life, just as it always has.
To not want this problem isn't to not want to be myself. Any more than wanting a growth that is inhibiting your movements removed from your body (and then being able to forget about it ever bothering you) means you don't want to be who you are. You already are who you are; the complications of the condition is the obstacle.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
Actually, as your argument is specious... I beg to differ,
Why on earth someone would transition to the female gender when they don't feel themselves female is beyond me.
Because sometimes the only thing that matters is hurting less. And doing the things that make you hurt less sometimes involves things like wearing different clothing or using a different name or transitioning, and not doing what some fifty-year-old sexology textbook says you have to do. I don't know why you feel you have the authority to decide what and who other people are, because as much as you say it isn't, it is a judgment. It's a judgment that their own experience and understanding of themselves and their body and their mind is subordinate to your own assignment, which—isn't that what we spend our whole lives fighting against society to resist?
People do what's right for them, which isn't always what's right for you.
:)
Quote from: kinz on January 26, 2017, 09:58:53 PM
Because sometimes the only thing that matters is hurting less. And doing the things that make you hurt less sometimes involves things like wearing different clothing or using a different name or transitioning, and not doing what some fifty-year-old sexology textbook says you have to do. I don't know why you feel you have the authority to decide what and who other people are, because as much as you say it isn't, it is a judgment. It's a judgment that their own experience and understanding of themselves and their body and their mind is subordinate to your own assignment, which—isn't that what we spend our whole lives fighting against society to resist?
People do what's right for them, which isn't always what's right for you.
And your argument is specious as well. Bring on the dogpile...it doesn't change accepted definitions. I have not judged anyone. I simply pointed out that presently accepted definitions were being ignored. If it makes you feel better to imply that I've assaulted anyones experience or presentation it won't change the facts.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 10:12:09 PM
:)
And your argument is specious as well. Bring on the dogpile...it doesn't change accepted definitions. I have not judged anyone. I simply pointed out that presently accepted definitions were being ignored. If it makes you feel better to imply that I've assaulted anyones experience or presentation it won't change the facts.
I don't know what you mean by innately female. Feeling like you should have female organs? Some men on this very site have those. Some people with XY chromosomes have those. So that's not innately female.
Is it feeling submissive? No. Not innately female. Cooking? No. Dresses? No. Dolls? No.
What is one feeling when they feel innately female?
My final note in this thread as I'm obviously aggravating people and that's not my intention. Female....as in I'm a woman. As in....I was born with a birth defect. As in I shouldn't have been born with a penis. As in my brain is female and my body doesn't match that binary or ideal. Don't know what else to add.
I hope this clears that up for you in regards to what I mean.
Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 11:59:39 PM
My final note in this thread as I'm obviously aggravating people and that's not my intention. Female....as in I'm a woman. As in....I was born with a birth defect. As in I shouldn't have been born with a penis. As in my brain is female and my body doesn't match that binary or ideal. Don't know what else to add.
I hope this clears that up for you in regards to what I mean.
So you trying to match an ideal of what is female. That's something very different and a very specific trans narrative. Some of us, including myself, just do whatever's necessary to not die in our beds with the sheets over our head.
Quote from: JMJW on January 27, 2017, 12:19:55 AM
So you trying to match an ideal of what is female. That's something very different and a very specific trans narrative. Some of us, including myself, just do whatever's necessary to not die in our beds with the sheets over our head.
Well.....no. I wasn't going to post, but I do hope you don't kill yourself. Good luck with your problem and I hope you'll wish the same for me.
Quote from: JMJW on January 26, 2017, 11:43:31 PM
What is one feeling when they feel innately female?
For me it is simply a state of knowing. It is not something reflected in likes or dislikes, hobbies, clothing, or any other external manifestation. It is a state of unchanging mind that would reside below conscious thought if it wasn't for the obvious physical discontinuity. Because of that and the external pressures of conforming to the physical form in all ways it rises to conscious thought as dysphoria. It is not something you decide upon or that you can change. It simply is.
It's kind of like asking what is it to feel innately human.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Wow, rarely do I see someone that sounds pretty similar to me. I've been plagued by doubt for a long long time. For me, its because in part that I can't relate to most TG stories. I never "knew" nor do I have any unbearable levels of dysphoria. I've always felt like a "wannabe" because no matter how much I wanted to be female or whatever, I felt all whatever I had as evidence didn't matter compared to "feeling female."
Without the assuredness that I'm trans, I can't muster the bravery and put the effort needed into transitioning. It's going to take a huge amount of bravery on my part (and I've done some brave things in the past) because I'm scared to death about people knowing that I'm trans.
And TBH, lately I've just felt like taking all my feelings and stuffing them in the closet. I've felt like the only way I'm going to transition is #1: if I can confirm that I have gender dysphoria (rather than some foolish wish), and #2: If it's intense enough that basically it will be clear that the only other choice is suicide, which sounds unfortunate but I feel like it will have to come down to that.
Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 05:47:24 AM
I've felt like the only way I'm going to transition is #1: if I can confirm that I have gender dysphoria (rather than some foolish wish), and #2: If it's intense enough that basically it will be clear that the only other choice is suicide, ....
It is perfectly possible to be transgender -- and for transition to be the right choice (based on the results) -- even if you don't have any gender dysphoria. I know trans people like that. There was even an article on the subject at everydayfeminism.com a while back.
And waiting for things to be so bad that suicide is the only alternative seems a little extreme. I can't say that I was anywhere near suicide when I started my journey, it's just that I could see that where I was and was likely to be would not be an improvement on dying.
I have a friend who transitioned -- new name, SRS, the whole deal -- who says she never felt uncomfortable as a man, and in fact didn't really plan on transitioning until about a month before she started; just at some point it seemed like the right thing to do. She got SRS because she really wanted a vagina. And she is thrilled with being a (trans) woman. (Disclaimer: she is one of my mentors.)
Ultimately:
1. You're never going to be certain it's the right thing. There are no guarrantees in life. At some point, you just have to go with it, whatever "it" is. The good thing about transition is that it's slow (like watching grass grow :( ), so you'll have plenty of time to see how it feels, to see if it feels right for you.
2. Everyone is different, everyone's path is different. Nobody else can definitively tell you whether you're "really trans." Nobody but you can tell you whether transition is right for you. You have to figure it out for yourself, though you can get some help along the way.
Quote from: Asche on January 27, 2017, 07:59:57 AMI have a friend who transitioned -- new name, SRS, the whole deal -- who says she never felt uncomfortable as a man, and in fact didn't really plan on transitioning until about a month before she started; just at some point it seemed like the right thing to do. She got SRS because she really wanted a vagina. And she is thrilled with being a (trans) woman. (Disclaimer: she is one of my mentors.)
Where are stories of people like her? Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible. I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.
Katelyn, if it makes you feel less alone i am on the same boat as you :/. I often struggle with all the doubt
Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Where are stories of people like her? Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible. I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.
The (mainstream) media are a horrible source of information for -- pretty much anything, actually. As for "keeping quiet," it's not like there's a national publication dedicated to telling trans women's (or trans men's) stories, you just have to meet and talk to people and let them tell them to you.
But there's no textbook on How To Be Trans. You have to pick up bits and pieces from different places. That's better anyway, since nobody knows it all. My sources:
* susans.org -- there are a
lot of trans people of all genders here, and they do tell their stories, albeit usually in bits and pieces. In this thread alone there are many different experiences described.
* support groups -- I know maybe 20-30 people through our local groups. There's practically nothing they'd all agree on, but I get a sense of the variety of ways there are to be trans.
* blogs by trans people. There are a lot of them.
* Books. I read and reread Julia Serano's
Whipping Girl. She also has a blog and a website with a lot of her articles. Kate Bornsteins'
My Gender Workbook is good, too. "She's not there" by Jennifer Finney Boylan.
FWIW, TG fiction tends to be pretty unrealistic. They're nice to read curled up in bed or something, but they're based on what people
wish would happen, rather than what does.
As for doubt: I think that just goes with the territory. You learn as much as you can about other people's stories, about your own deepest nature, about the practicalities. And then at some point you have to jump or not jump and accept that whichever you do, you may decide some time in the future that it was the wrong choice.
But that's also true of any life-changing decision.
Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Where are stories of people like her? Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible. I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.
The old transgender narratives are just that, old. The recent and largest (27,000+) survey of transgender people in the USA found that over a third of the respondents consider themselves to be non binary. We can engage in class appropriation but to what end? If our goals here are more about understanding and support then our language and efforts might best be directed toward inclusion and acceptance, eh? No secret handshakes or elite clubs are needed.
Who needs a dictionary or thesaurus to define themselves? Culture is dynamic and the pace seems to be quickening with social media like Facebook reflecting an awareness that our gender identity can have a pretty wide range.
Quote from: Asche on January 27, 2017, 11:16:45 AM
The (mainstream) media are a horrible source of information for -- pretty much anything, actually.
Yes but most people pay attention to the mainstream media, and is there any other source portraying trans people better? Society's understanding of trans people will come largely from the media.
QuoteAs for "keeping quiet," it's not like there's a national publication dedicated to telling trans women's (or trans men's) stories, you just have to meet and talk to people and let them tell them to you.
I've done that a lot over the last nine years, most of their stories sound like the typical narrative, especially the ones that transitioned. Many trans people have a lot of bad stuff going on in their lives, which is hardly ever encouraging.
QuoteBut there's no textbook on How To Be Trans. You have to pick up bits and pieces from different places. That's better anyway, since nobody knows it all.
This is about legitimacy in relation to society, because if you don't feel legitimate then how can you feel like your being honest to others if you tell them you are female? And would they treat you less if you didn't? I want women to treat me as a woman, not as a wierdo (and thus suspiciously.)
Quote* susans.org -- there are a lot of trans people of all genders here, and they do tell their stories, albeit usually in bits and pieces. In this thread alone there are many different experiences described.
I don't come all that often nowadays, but in the past I did, and have done so on and off for more than ten years, and I didn't see that much variation in stories. I used to go to another tg board even before susans and there was no variation.
Quote* support groups -- I know maybe 20-30 people through our local groups. There's practically nothing they'd all agree on, but I get a sense of the variety of ways there are to be trans.
Support groups made me feel alienated as well because most were full TG and their stories did sound similar to the typical narrative. Ones that didn't were genderqueer (and thus not transitioning) and questioning (which didn't stay for long.) And I've been in support groups in three different cities.
Quote* blogs by trans people. There are a lot of them.
Yeah and their lives didn't sound so successful. Especially bigender people and genderqueer.
Quote* Books. I read and reread Julia Serano's Whipping Girl. She also has a blog and a website with a lot of her articles. Kate Bornsteins' My Gender Workbook is good, too. "She's not there" by Jennifer Finney Boylan.
Heard about them. Read a little bit of Kate Bornstein's book. Gender is not something one can freely explore if one was assigned male at birth. I don't like it when people assume one has the freedom to explore their identity. We live in a society that requires us to make money in order to support ourselves, which requires us to interact for the most part with other people in order to get that money, which requires us to present ourselves acceptably to others, which thus means that what other people think of us does matter, unless we have talents in non-conformist friendly job fields or are willing to struggle to survive financially.
QuoteAs for doubt: I think that just goes with the territory. You learn as much as you can about other people's stories, about your own deepest nature, about the practicalities. And then at some point you have to jump or not jump and accept that whichever you do, you may decide some time in the future that it was the wrong choice.
And I guess living out as transgender is to me just too risky. I don't happen to be established in any trans friendly careers, so I guess I'm unfortunate in that regard. I made the big mistake of choosing a rather conservative job field to get my degree in (not expecting to transition during the time.)
I keep hoping and wishing that things were different. Since I can remember. As early as I remember I would pray to wake up as a girl. Then the cross dressing, the guilt. I have fought it my whole life. As I got older I learned new ways to fight this drive by not feeling at all and shutting down and locking my mind into my work or getting drunk. I have wished it would go away, but it has not. I cannot believe the wasted time and energy fighting this. The fact that I am sitting here now writing at this site is an example of my life long battle. The battle that will never stop. The constant search for answers.
In 2011 I tried some hormones and my anxiety lifted like a cloud bank and I felt peace in core of my soul. I quickly stopped, because of the voice in me that says that it is wrong. I no longer cross dress because of my self hate of the image that is reflected in the mirror and for the fear of being caught. For the past five years I have travelled down the spiral of fantasizing that I am a woman and always have been and how much I would like to live as one and get married to a man. This brings me temporary relief, breaks down the anxiety, but the reality always returns and I feel foolish and dumb. This fantasy is so frequent that it is almost nonstop now.
I very my do not like where I am, but the fantasy is the only thing that brings me peace. I have a great family and can never show my self. I feel that it is selfish of me and I believe I am a coward. I honor and respect the courage here on this site and I believe I will never be the person I know I am and always be in my soul
Am I transgender? I do not know what it is? I have no doubt that had I been born in the last ten years I would have been on my way to transitioning, but it is to late for me.
Quote from: CHRIS129 on February 03, 2017, 08:12:27 PM
Am I transgender? I do not know what it is? I have no doubt that had I been born in the last ten years I would have been on my way to transitioning, but it is to late for me.
Hun,
By your own words, what you describe is being transgender. But what one should do in such a case is see an experienced gender therapist so you can get objective help with this lifelong misery.
This site alone is host to hundreds, if not thousands, of MTFs that have nearly identical stories as your own, and it is NOT too late. It is never too late. You are just not ready yet, but I wonder just how much more misery you will require before setting aside your fears and at least talking with somebody that is trained to help you reveal your truth, whatever it might be, to yourself?
There are many, many, many of us, that walked in your shoes. And guess what? We are now happy women, living very real lives, enjoying the moments of wondrous new days...
I am one such woman.
Come, join us!
Missy
Chris, from that description in my own opinion you are a transgender person. Your description sounds like me several years ago, when I was trying so hard to suppress myself. I was a little too good at that, and last year I found myself in a very, very bad place from depression. I crashed big time.
I came out to the therapist the crisis line connected me to, and to my spouse. Within a few months I had come to grips with the knowledge that I really was trans, and had badly damaged myself from the combination of depression, stress, and anxiety. At age 63 I started HRT, and my transition. It cost me dearly, but I am alive and doing well now.
I cannot recommend suppressing ones true nature. It ain't healthy. You would be much better off working with a therapist to help you clear up your thinking on the subject, rather than do something stupid like I did.
And, it is never too late to start a transition. We have lots of late bloomers here at Susan's, all finding our own paths to some inner peace.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
IT IS NEVER TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZScn9gWvjrQ
May not be the best place to put this but since we are talking about ''too late'' I listened to this song during my days of hard doubt around septemeber.... and it got me through some hard times and made me feel feminine as i could sing along to Carole King.. yup i am a 90s baby with a love for 70s music XD. But perhaps you should find something to channel your feminine energy into! just saying, sorry if i didnt help
Sending you love through the internet, Chrisq129. Those feelings you're describing, that is Gender Dysphoria right there. Remember all you were doing is getting the medically approved treatment.
Quote from: CHRIS129 on February 03, 2017, 08:12:27 PM
I keep hoping and wishing that things were different. Since I can remember. As early as I remember I would pray to wake up as a girl. Then the cross dressing, the guilt. I have fought it my whole life. As I got older I learned new ways to fight this drive by not feeling at all and shutting down and locking my mind into my work or getting drunk. I have wished it would go away, but it has not. I cannot believe the wasted time and energy fighting this. The fact that I am sitting here now writing at this site is an example of my life long battle. The battle that will never stop. The constant search for answers.
In 2011 I tried some hormones and my anxiety lifted like a cloud bank and I felt peace in core of my soul. I quickly stopped, because of the voice in me that says that it is wrong. I no longer cross dress because of my self hate of the image that is reflected in the mirror and for the fear of being caught. For the past five years I have travelled down the spiral of fantasizing that I am a woman and always have been and how much I would like to live as one and get married to a man. This brings me temporary relief, breaks down the anxiety, but the reality always returns and I feel foolish and dumb. This fantasy is so frequent that it is almost nonstop now.
I very my do not like where I am, but the fantasy is the only thing that brings me peace. I have a great family and can never show my self. I feel that it is selfish of me and I believe I am a coward. I honor and respect the courage here on this site and I believe I will never be the person I know I am and always be in my soul
Am I transgender? I do not know what it is? I have no doubt that had I been born in the last ten years I would have been on my way to transitioning, but it is to late for me.
Well done for taking the courage to join this site and share your intimate thoughts. It is a brave first step. Did you go through the process of therapy before you tried hormones before?
Though your story resonates with me on many levels I can only echo what others have said and suggest you find a therapist who has experience with gender issues to talk with.
I have always been prone to fantasy of one kind or another and yes in recent years my fantasy of choice has been similar to what you have described. However I am learning that my propensity to wander off in to fantasy land maybe due to the fact that I am unhappy due to a whole host of reasons beyond a perceived sense of just gender relates issues.
The whole thing can seem very daunting and of course the mind will take us to the end game before we have even learnt what the rules are. That is clearly overwhelming!
Good luck to you and your journey.
Thank you :angel:
Quote from: CHRIS129 on February 03, 2017, 08:12:27 PM
In 2011 I tried some hormones and my anxiety lifted like a cloud bank and I felt peace in core of my soul.
I hate to be blunt, but I really can't help myself. I'm a Taurus. But the solution to your dilemma rather suggests itself.
Quote from: Jane Emily on February 04, 2017, 05:16:41 PM
I hate to be blunt, but I really can't help myself. I'm a Taurus. But the solution to your dilemma rather suggests itself.
Lmao, girlfriend, I am actually laughing out loud, thank you. I mean no disrespect to Chris, I am laughing because I have been just as guilty of ignoring my own handwriting on the wall back when I was trapped in my old life.
It is a HARD thing to swallow, this trans experience, and all the implications we imagine come with it, isn't it?
But, oh my, I find life now to be sooo much better, heck, I had the dreams, too, and now, they are not dreams, they are my everyday life.
Every. Day. Life.
Missy
Quote from: CHRIS129 on February 04, 2017, 11:20:44 AM
Thank you :angel:
Chris, welcome to the site.
I was 50 when I hit a fairly self destructive point in my life. I had been building up to it for years. That was two years ago.
I am married with three daughters(teens 14-18). I love my family. I have experienced the guilt of wishing I transitioned earlier(which means I would not have had that family). I love my wife. However, I am just about a year into HRT. My wife is amazed at how much nicer and more fun I am.
I can't tell you what to do. I can't say my experience will be yours. I can only say that it will never go away until it is dealt with.
I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:
Things that you should read
- Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
- Standard Terms and Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
- Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
- Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)
- News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)
- Photo, avatars, and signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)
Once again, welcome to Susan's. I wish you love, acceptance and a smoother journey down whatever path you choose.
With warmth,
Joanna
I admit that I feel somewhere on the transgender spectrum, but I wonder if it's all in my head and not a biological feeling. That's what my mom asked. She asked whether these were real biological feelings or just a regular thought process. But I want to be able to express myself as a woman, even if it's just once in a while. But I might want real feminine features also.
I think people get too high strung on this bio stuff. Do people know from birth yes, some. Others not until puberty or even early 20s. Some, even far longer down the road. Lets just assume that there is no bio part to it, are you happy as a woman? if you answer yes i think you got your answer. It has taken me almost 3 years, after coming out in 2014 to just say if i am happy as a girl, even if it is a thought or what not then i am going with it because it still makes me who i am. It has gone on too long to be a phase. Play out your options and test your identity. You will figure it out soon
Hugs- Ashley
It is not too late. I am soon going to tell my husband since 19 years that I am a man. We have teenage kids. I discovered 10 years ago there was something called transgender. I found myself. But my life was very stressful at the same time, both at work and at home. Add being born in the wrong body to that. I reacted with having a psychosis.
Either I lose = continue to have depressions, hating my body, not wanting sex or touch... or I become myself = I stop being depressed and feel the image in my head matches the one in the mirror.
Depression is a deadly illness.
Quote from: MeTonie on February 06, 2017, 11:16:11 PM
It is not too late. I am soon going to tell my husband since 19 years that I am a man. We have teenage kids. I discovered 10 years ago there was something called transgender. I found myself. But my life was very stressful at the same time, both at work and at home. Add being born in the wrong body to that. I reacted with having a psychosis.
Either I lose = continue to have depressions, hating my body, not wanting sex or touch... or I become myself = I stop being depressed and feel the image in my head matches the one in the mirror.
Depression is a deadly illness.
((HUGS))
Missy
I am sorry, I have lost track. Are you seeing a therapist? It is nice of your Mom to show interest. However, the person who should be asking questions is you with a therapist. That is how you work through this sort of thing.
That is my strongly worded opinion. What you choose to do is up to you. It is not easy to come to terms saying "I am transgender", also hard to say where you fit in that. It is impossible for anyone else to make those conclusions. Therapists are a part of your support circle that helps you make those choices. Certainly add your mother's questions and thoughts if she is supporting but it remains a question for you.
Good luck.
Warmly,
Joanna
Quote from: redhot1 on February 06, 2017, 08:40:57 PM
I admit that I feel somewhere on the transgender spectrum, but I wonder if it's all in my head and not a biological feeling.
Um, thoughts, feelings, perceptions, etc., of
any kind are "all in your head." People live and die by what's in their heads. The difference between a Nobel prize winner and a futureless bum is in their heads. When someone says, "it's all in your head," it's a way of dismissing what you think and/or feel and/or have experienced without engaging with it. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
If wanting this is in your head and won't leave you alone, I'd say, try it. Put a toe or two in the water and see if it makes you feel better. Transition isn't an all or nothing deal, and, aside from the surgeries (or the effects of long-term HRT), nothing prevents you from backing out if it turns out to be not for you. A good gender therapist could probably help you figure out what steps you feel comfortable with. There are a number of people here who've started transition and then detransitioned once or several times, they can advise you, too, if you want.
It's not a lot different from being, say, an accountant but having this lifelong urge to be a filmmaker. You try taking some courses, then get some practice making student films, etc., etc.
Quote from: redhot1 on February 06, 2017, 08:40:57 PM
I admit that I feel somewhere on the transgender spectrum, but I wonder if it's all in my head and not a biological feeling. That's what my mom asked. She asked whether these were real biological feelings or just a regular thought process. But I want to be able to express myself as a woman, even if it's just once in a while. But I might want real feminine features also.
Last night National Geographic featured their Transgender documentary with Katie Couric. One concept that is well respected by therapists working with young trans people is the trilogy of "insistent, consistent and persistence" of transgender feelings and identification. Might that narrative apply to you?