The U.K gender reform petition has been running a while now and I think we now have to take action and put our money where our mouth is and do something about the horrendous way patients are treated by the NHS and Charing Cross GIC alike. I've also received and witnessed information on several suicide attemps from Charing Cross GIC patients.
I've been informed that Charing Cross GIC may now be under investigation by the GMC and Healthcare Commission but is it enough? They should be closed down and re-opened with a whole new structured system where patients will be seen and treated within a reasonable timescale. At the moment there is no treatment program or opportunities to access one and some patients can be 'stuck' at a clinic like Charing Cross GIC anything up to 10 years without treatment.
I was a patient at Charing Cross GIC for nearly 7 years and in that time they didn't facilitate any form of treatment. We estimated by talking to my PCT (Health Authority) that they lost in an excess of £17,000 from 2001 - 2007 for my invisible treatment and the money was fleeced to line Charing Cross pockets. During that time I had to run my own parellel treatment and start my hormone treatment privately as Charing Cross GIC refused hormone treatment. They also refused various referrals including a referral for GRS yet I fully complied with the HBSOC and also lived more than 5 years RLT in a female role.
Since moving on from Charing Cross GIC in January 2007 I have been working on my own. I have achieved far more in 6 months than I did in 6 years at Charing Cross GIC. Along with my GP we have now created our own treatment program and I have alrerady accessed both an appointment for breast augmentation and FFS. Charing Cross GIC continue to insist these proceedure's are not part of a gender change and contradict everything laid out by the HBSOC protocols.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has similar experiences of Charing Cross GIC or similar clinics in the U.K.
Kimberliegh
http://www.petitiononline.com/nhsgidsp/petition.html
Posted on: November 12, 2007, 11:27:37 AM
Petition Testimonials....mostly disatisfaction with Charing Cross GIC.
The NHS made me want to commit suicide, if i didnt have a loving partner i would have. i hate the NHS loath digusted sickened by the way my gps then charing cross dealt with me they are sick in the head... if you dont like it go private i did. (http://www.transhealth.co.uk/) and that saved my life... full stop the end the end the end (the Nhs are sick) Lucy Maund
I Support this petition 100\%. The care available to tg girls is diabolical, and thats being kind! We wouldn't treat our animals the way we are treated by CXH. Very long waits for appointments (4 years for my 1st appoinmtment). The fact that CXH is the ONLY clinic in the UK is seriously not good enough. I have to travel 350 miles each way everytime I have an appointment. That means taking time off work and spending a fortune on fuel. There are no facilities on the nhs for Facial hair removal which is a necessity for a tg to be able to change full time. We have to pay for everything. What the bloody hell is my national insurance being taken out of my wages every week for! I thought it was for NHS CARE! From what I have experienced with CXH it is NHS Dont Care! CXH has shattered my confidence which it took me a very long time to build. I don't know if I can ever get it back. The whole system need a major overhaul. Rachel Nicholas
I endorse this petition 100\%. Charring Cross is unhelpful, manipulative and offers a very poor and predjudiced service. G. P. Andrew Smith
From my personal experience, Charing Cross GIC perpetuates misery and makes competent individuals feel disempowered. Gerry Small
the present system tears families apart close down CX and reopen it along patient centred lines with new management and clinicians. Stacey Widdison
spent six years trying to get to GIC! Only now have appointment for Jan 2007!
Adrian Dalton
got fed up waiting for treatment from CXH and went private to get hormones. I am unable in my present financial position able to pay for surgery. I finally got a first appointment at CXH in Jan 2007, 2 years after starting the process. We deserve better treatment than this, if you don't hassle CXH then they ignore you. Patients shouldn't have to constantly pressure CX to be able to get an appointment date. Jack Hallett
After having Being "treated" by Charring Cross GIC for over a year, I now feel that my only option is to go Private and work every hour of the bloody day to pay for it. I feel it is a real shame as my GP has been superb and it is only the rigid and punitive policies of the C.C. GIC that have driven me to this decision. When HM GOVT were talking about a more patient centred and flexible NHS, certain people clearly had their heads in the sand - or more likely somewhere else! Jennifer
The treatment of transgendered people in this country is diabolical. They should be treated by doctors and not as psychiatric patients. Transgendered people know more about this than the 'experts' they are seeing. This country needs to stop treating transgendered people as 3rd class citizens and treat them with the respect and dignity they deserve. Paul Hughes
I have to say the same about the standards of care...They stink...long overdue an overhaul, we get treated like idiots (even though we probably know more than good OLD Mr Green, Mr Montgomery just likes to offend to the point of distressing his patients).......And from what i have seen of Charing cross Hospital and it's dirty toilets (wish i had a camera that day!!!....also latex gloves laying in a corridor), i'm in 2 minds whether the place is clean enough to have Major surgery!!!.....Please, Please, Please do something about this diabolical situation, Before anymore girls decide to end their lives because of neglect and distress..... Miss Tamzin Beauchamp
Dr. Montgomery is an interrogator who demonstrates limited knowledge in some areas and Dr Barrett's attitude is dictatorial and quite bizarre in some of his ideas. Caroline Monroe
I have a supportive GP practice but chose to go privately because of my age.Other m2f firnds have experienced repeated cancelled appts at CHX. I have also witnessed at first hand the way a patientis greeted in the waiting room there. I wouldn't speak to my dog like that. Jan Scobey
I was on CHX's books from 1988 to 1998-with no resolution of my condition. I was able eventually in 2003 to get my surgery after coming into some family money-this FIFTEEN years after first going to CHX. There may be a new building but there are the same old faces, same old 1960's attitudes and it needs to be brought into the 21st Century. Years of lost records, cancelled appointments and an out of sight out of mind attitude have made me sign this petition. Any way I can be of help I will. Gemma Handford
How long will it take before the NHS finally realise that we have a genuine problem that requires attention & not to be pushed to one side. please allow me to quote a few words from a friend who visited Charring Cross the other day. "I had my appointment yesterday at charring cross and they have shattered everything that i have been working to .they were rude overbearing and controling in a god like way taking no consideration to individual circumstances". Andrea Logan
I wonder what the solution to this might be. I have met some of the docs from there. They are very knowledgeable, but yes, arrogant is a word that comes to mind. A thought would be in changing the directorship. I'm not sure what the oversight body is, a board of directors or supervisors? It is unthinkable to have a LGB health organization without LGBs on it's governing board and many on it's staff. Are there transpeople on the governing board or staff of Charing Cross? I doubt it. This might be a starting point to change attitudes there.
An idea.
Namaste, Taraftp://
Solution: total flushout of the system... replaces all the staff, doctors, and operation practice, re write the book, and THEN build a treatment system... probably privately run but nhs funded...
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on December 14, 2007, 02:24:34 PM
Solution: total flushout of the system... replaces all the staff, doctors, and operation practice, re write the book, and THEN build a treatment system... probably privately run but nhs funded...
R :police:
That is exactely the plan Rachael.
Posted on: December 15, 2007, 06:52:10 AM
Quote from: Tara on December 14, 2007, 12:35:54 PM
I wonder what the solution to this might be. I have met some of the docs from there. They are very knowledgeable, but yes, arrogant is a word that comes to mind. A thought would be in changing the directorship. I'm not sure what the oversight body is, a board of directors or supervisors? It is unthinkable to have a LGB health organization without LGBs on it's governing board and many on it's staff. Are there transpeople on the governing board or staff of Charing Cross? I doubt it. This might be a starting point to change attitudes there.
An idea.
Namaste, Taraftp://
From my own experience I haven't found any of the psychiatrists at Charing Cross GIC 'knowledgeable'. Quite to opposite in fact and 12 months at 'The royal college of psychiatrists' isn't enough or the right training to deal with patients with gender dysphoria.
Of course they wouldn't allow a transsexual to be a part of their system because that sole person would have experience.
I'm so pleased that I'm no longer in that U.K 'gender clinic loop' but I've now found it is possible to access NHS treatment without attending any form of gender clinic. I wasted over 6 years with Charing Cross GIC who during that time period made ever possible attemp to avoid providing me with any treatment.
could it be that the waiting list for HRT and surgery is just long and that's why it takes years?
no, they mess you around in the meanwhile....
i have to wait 5 more years to SEE a therapsist... THEN a few to get on hrt, and do rlt, then the standard wait in my area is 23 years for surgery from referal... in reality, because so many go private, or commit suicide, its 6 more years instead of that.... as they only refer TWO people a year...
R :police:
The problem with the NHS is the same problem with most gender clinics worldwide,
when treatment protocols change, they don't adapt because they're insular and
dogmatic. They build they're whole system on an idea and if the underpinning
changes, well they don't see it and continue along their merry way.
They're also ultra bureaucratic and paternalistic. They believe they know more
about TS than a TS, even if the issue has scarcely been studied in any
many meaningful way. TS knowing all this lie to them to feed their delusion just
to get through the system; this doesn't help them change their delusion. They
prefer it to reality anyway. The Toronto Gender clinic is the same. The Montreal
one is better, but its nothing to write home about.
hmm only two patients referred a year? yeah, that's pretty bad. i was thinking of the free drug abuse treatment system here which a patient waits in line for 2 years before treatment because the waiting list is long and they can only treat a certain number at a time.
but, yeah yours sounds rather messed up.
thats two to surgery....
theres even less and longer waiting lists to just get seen... so many die waiting... and they dont consider it live saving :(
R :police:
I would like to pose a view here, even though I do not agree with it.
No insurance or with insurance because TS isnt a covered condition:
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)
Here in the US yes we have instant treatment, but in Canada and the UK you have Socialized Free Treatment.
Personally I would rather Transition in the US and pay all that money, but I would rather have my arm break in the UK, and live as a fully transistioned individual in canada or the UK.
Here in the US a TS who has had SRS and is insured can break thier arm and have insurance deny them pain medication or even worse deny them fixing the broken arm because of thier gender status!!! The NHS and Canada will not tell a person with a broken arm we cant help you, and you dont have to pay a $1k,2k,3k,5k DEDUCTABLE for treatment, on top of the monthly $100plus in insurance!!!
Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 04:37:07 AM
I would like to pose a view here, even though I do not agree with it.
No insurance or with insurance because TS isnt a covered condition:
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)
Thats quite a price...
in the uK its worse....
you have to start therapy,
THEN RLT
for a YEAR
THEN you get hrt... wtf?
if you go private here, the only PRIVATE shrink, charges £200 a session, yep, thats right, Dr Curtis, a Transman himself, who should know better... $400 a session...
hrt isnt THAT epxensive on the nhs... £12 a month or so...
and you left out electro/ laser... its still an awesome figure though :(
though i managed to get hrt on the nhs, because of my intersex condition, its seen as corrective... for some reason its differnet?
regardless, this is utter bull... and i doubt it will change... the hoops people here are forced through are retarded....
theres one gic ive heard of, that resets your RLE if you wear trousers... wtf?
R :police:
Socialized systems are not so nice either. Here are some comparisons from the local (Finland) system.
Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 04:37:07 AM
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
We don't have therapy (except if one pays for it). The GIC tries to find something else
wrong with us for 6 months and if they fail we get diagnosed.
Quote
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
We have less blood tests (would cost ~$500 @ private).
Quote
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
How do you get those meds so expensive? With a little bit of effort it should be trivial to get them cheaper - like
"HRT Meds from walmart for $4 w/o insurance" (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,20368.0.html).
With the socialized system I pay $75/month for HRT.
Quote
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
We just omit that. Blood tests which would cost $100 in private once per year.
Quote
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
RLT is here also the same length.
Quote
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
These are not normally covered by the system.
Quote
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)
Here we can get SRS from the system after 1-2 years after RLT has been completed.
But the quality is lower than thai surgeons which costs $8k there.
Yeah you all have some seriously good points, oh and before I get bashed on.
Most all of my figures are off my head, I only think there as accurate as I know them, so please dont bash me, I am just trying to get comparisions here roughly. positive input if you dont mind, not quoteing me and saying how wrong I am, just state your expieriences, thanks
That is so messed up RLT before HRT. WTF? Anarchy in the UK. LOL
ive said it before... and ill say it again... the UK GIC system makes ->-bleeped-<-s, not men or women...
R :police:
LOL, sorry I dont mean to laugh its not funny, but it was worded funny.
My greatest point though is with no insurance in the US you break your arm You are screwed, in the UK they just fix you for FREE, kinda I mean you all pay like what 40% of your paychecks for it, but it just isnt a worry, whether you are employed or not.
My current plan since I have no job (Got Fired for being TS!!!), and no insurance is If I get hurt, put me in my piece of crap car, and I will put it into a wall cause my auto insurance will pay for it!!!
its not free... we pay taxes for it...
we pay national insurance... same as yours, just flatrate, and low..R
R :police:
Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
LOL, sorry I dont mean to laugh its not funny, but it was worded funny.
My greatest point though is with no insurance in the US you break your arm You are screwed, in the UK they just fix you for FREE, kinda I mean you all pay like what 40% of your paychecks for it, but it just isnt a worry, whether you are employed or not.
My current plan since I have no job (Got Fired for being TS!!!), and no insurance is If I get hurt, put me in my piece of crap car, and I will put it into a wall cause my auto insurance will pay for it!!!
yep. the good ol US of A bends over backwards to help other nations, tons of immigrants get all kinds of frills - free loans, no taxes, etc. But She treats her OWN citizens like ->-bleeped-<-.
The problem is not with the UK health sustem. I think public health is much more efficient at providing health care than private one. This is a special case. Gender clinics are small clinks in a system that is otherwise woking. Too bad the small clinks is a big deal for us, but not for anybody else.
Quote from: Rachael on December 16, 2007, 06:24:14 AM
Thats quite a price...
in the uK its worse....
you have to start therapy,
THEN RLT
for a YEAR
THEN you get hrt... wtf?
if you go private here, the only PRIVATE shrink, charges £200 a session, yep, thats right, Dr Curtis, a Transman himself, who should know better... $400 a session...
hrt isnt THAT epxensive on the nhs... £12 a month or so...
and you left out electro/ laser... its still an awesome figure though :(
though i managed to get hrt on the nhs, because of my intersex condition, its seen as corrective... for some reason its differnet?
regardless, this is utter bull... and i doubt it will change... the hoops people here are forced through are retarded....
theres one gic ive heard of, that resets your RLE if you wear trousers... wtf?
R :police:
That's not my experience at all. I attended a London NHS Gender clinic for 2 years from 2001 to 2003 and still got continually refused HRT. So in the end I had no choice than to go private (cost £200) and got the HRT prescription at the appointment the same afternoon......so it was still good value compared to 2 years of fighting with the NHS...
I also have an intersexed condition which the London NHS gender clinic were made aware of and have been living a RLT for 5 years (backed up by full documentation etc) yet the London NHS Gender clinic still refused to give me a referral for SRS....
I have now taken legal steps against them as they have deliberately avoided helping me with my treatment.....
Since leaving the London NHS Gender clinic I have had far more success and have secured referrals on my own for FFS and Breast augmentation still through the NHS, so as Keira rightly says the NHS is not the problem on it's own but the Gender Clinic system is the problem.....
were you mutilated at birth? that could be the difference in our treatment..
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on December 22, 2007, 06:11:45 AM
were you mutilated at birth? that could be the difference in our treatment..
R :police:
I suppose Rachael, humour is the only way to get through the situation...
I haven't had any NHS treatment even though I attended a London CX NHS Gender Clinic for over 6 years! I really hope you get much better treated with the NHS than I did.
So far the only treatment available to me has been private.....
As you saw from the list of people I posted who have attended Charing Cross GIC over the last few years it's not uncommon for people to get abused in the same way as I did.....
i was refering to your stated intersex condition... i was corrected at birth, which is why i wondered how extensive, and known your is condition was, as i was offered hrt as a corrective measure... but no word on grs yet :( apparently i must still go through gic for it!
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on December 22, 2007, 07:04:20 AM
i was refering to your stated intersex condition... i was corrected at birth, which is why i wondered how extensive, and known your is condition was, as i was offered hrt as a corrective measure... but no word on grs yet :( apparently i must still go through gic for it!
R :police:
I see what you mean.......my problems were not of mixed genitalia like yours but I did have other problems while I was growing up. Some intersexed conditions (like mine) are mainly chromosome based and not as severe as yours may have been. My voice didn't break, my testicles were very small and I wasn't able to produce sperm.
I have had a lot of intersexed tests done at University hospital including chromosones and bone density scans..
Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 04:37:07 AM
I would like to pose a view here, even though I do not agree with it.
No insurance or with insurance because TS isnt a covered condition:
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)
Don't idealize the treatment in the UK , for the most part as people laid out...its crap for trans services, because they DO have to pay for surgeries and HRT on their own. They have to go private in many cases. It's not socialized free treatment.
Also you have to be very careful at the costs you are throwing out. I am going to list my cost. You will be surprised. Take into account LGBT centers in many north american cities have been offering trans services recently (HRT and Therapy) for a very low cost. Also even though my insurance has an exclusion they have covered both.
Also BA is not always required. I am a Full A, which for my frame is acceptable, this is in a very short time, I am pushing into B territory, which would be ideal. Also sometimes the cost is covered by insurance for things like therapy and HRT in the US, even when its not, if you live in a big city with a LGBT clinc, it is very cheap. Seeing a therapist so often during the RLE is not required. As far as my therapist sees it, if life is going well in your new role, you don't need to see her that often.
So here is a more realistic rundown of services if you live in a city with a LGBT clinic in the US. I am using my expenses.
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($80 once every two to three months, but this is a non-clinic practioner, the clinic practitioner would be about $25 for me)
HRT Doctors visits including blood tests (Total around $0-$25 USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($15-20 each)
Real Life Experience (How many therapists visits vary. I actually see my therapist once every two to three months now)
FFS surgery (10k USD-25k USD)
Breast Augmentation (Not always necessary)
(Trip to psycholigist $10-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($16k-20kUSD Canada)
The cost...if you see...is really born with surgeries. HRT for me...is literally free. I live in the US, I go to a LGBT clinic that is covered by my insurance and is in network that does both blood tests. Spiro and estradiol...are dirt cheap at this clinic.
The NHS gender clinics and gender clinics in general are awful. US LGBT clinics on the other hand are great with trans services. They do not devalue our identities, they might as well be socialized, and they are by in large trans friendly. Yeah its only for HRT and Therapy. But that is better than nothing or long waiting lists. Which from what I noticed from trans people in the UK that is all they face and are forced to go private which is considerably more expensive then it is here in the US. Very few in the UK or Canada get their surgeries paid for. In the US there is actually companies that will cover much of the cost of SRS.
If anything the best system I have seen so far that RESPECTS trans people is the LGBT clinic system. If the UK was smart they would get rid of the gender clinics and their staff and adopt this system into the NHS. Its much much better.
ffs isnt always needed either kiddo ;) why does everyone stick that and BA in all measurements of transition costs?
R :police:
They stick in transition cost, the same way, you'd stick the possible costs of options when you buy a car. To give yourself a range and also to know which one's more important to you.
By having all options, and price, you can make a better decision than by having a partial view fo the situation.
'technically, options are listed as such, most people list all these things as required for any transition... and too many see it as so...
R :angel:
Quote from: Amy T. on December 26, 2007, 12:08:14 AM
The NHS gender clinics and gender clinics in general are awful. US LGBT clinics on the other hand are great with trans services. They do not devalue our identities, they might as well be socialized, and they are by in large trans friendly. Yeah its only for HRT and Therapy. But that is better than nothing or long waiting lists. Which from what I noticed from trans people in the UK that is all they face and are forced to go private which is considerably more expensive then it is here in the US. Very few in the UK or Canada get their surgeries paid for. In the US there is actually companies that will cover much of the cost of SRS.
If anything the best system I have seen so far that RESPECTS trans people is the LGBT clinic system. If the UK was smart they would get rid of the gender clinics and their staff and adopt this system into the NHS. Its much much better.
I totally agree, and I had to learn the hard way. I started with the NHS who spent two years of my time refusing hormones.........In the end I got tired of it and I saw a private consultant who put me on HRT straight away. The NHS U.K GIC psychiatrists then acused me of obtaining HRT from the black market and the internet which was particularly nasty, untrue and slanderous.....So I reported them to the Healthcare Commission.
That was the start of the unpleasantness that was to follow being part of the NHS GIC system. Two more referrals were blocked by the NHS GIC which really made up my mind I no longer wished to have anything to do with that system. I had previously been warned about the NHS (especially Charing Cross) by a couple of transsexual friends I knew in 1999 but of course I didn't listen to their expert advice.
Any treatment I have had so far has only been private.....but I have still managed to access two NHS surgeons from my own research away from any gender clinic system, and I have now realised it's possible to bypass the NHS Gender Clinic system altogether.........but still access some NHS surgeons.
I now have an NHS approved funding for breast augmentation and have also seen a FFS surgeon and hope to get possible funding for this as well. I did this in the space of a year on my own, but while I was attending the Charing Cross GIC for 7 years I couldn't access any treatment at all.
I agree, the U.K NHS system in England is very bad. Scotland isn't perfect either but it is a little better.
Yikes!
Money talks.
Seems strange that you guys onlyhave one private therapist avalible.
Oh well it definitely seems faster to go the private route.
Regardless of the cost.
In the time spent waiting, you could easily have saved up enough money to see a private therapist.
That would be my route. If I lived there.
I would ignore th NHS entirely.
£200 to see Curtis. (each time)
hrt script on nhs... £12ish a pop
surgeon? god knows....
im in college atm, struggling to pay for tuition, books, rent, food etc...
i cant even BEGIN to save up to see a private therapist, or surgeon, and tbh, at the moment the 5 year wait for the nhs seems my only option... ><
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on January 12, 2008, 10:03:47 PM
£200 to see Curtis. (each time)
hrt script on nhs... £12ish a pop
surgeon? god knows....
im in college atm, struggling to pay for tuition, books, rent, food etc...
i cant even BEGIN to save up to see a private therapist, or surgeon, and tbh, at the moment the 5 year wait for the nhs seems my only option... ><
R :police:
Also bear in mind that Richard Curtis is not a qualified psychiatrist and his referrals for GRS may not be accepted by the NHS or your PCT.
I ignored the GIC here too (in Montreal, Quebec), eventually went to see if it was as bad as I had heard, and maybe they could help finance stuff or something. I wasn't even admitted in the program.
I got my hormones through a generalist, and would I have waited to go the official SoCs route, get a letter for them, and a specialized endo and all that jazz, I'd be dead by now. I can get all that stuff while on HRT and full-time, seems I'm not dying a bit everyday like I felt I was.
It is worrying that psychiatrists at CIC clinics within the U.K may not actually be trained properly. In November 2001 during my second appointment at Charing Cross GIC, Dr Donald Montgomery wrote to my GP stating that I was 'under the delusion of being female'. The attitude of the psychiatrists at Charing Cross CIC is that gender dysphoria doesn't exist and we are all under our own delusions. Their attitude is to beat the transsexulusm out of us in a hope it will cure us and they have no intention of providing treatment or support during these difficult times in our lives.
After careful investigation into Charing Cross GIC by the Healthcare Commission on my behalf, the Healthcare Commission found that my Charing Cross medical notes had been mixed up with another patients file. So some of my medical notes were in fact not mine but someone elses.
I have now found out after various independant medical tests that I am intersexed, so I'm certainly not dilusional and I have a medical condition. I think more should be done in the U.K to investigate these NHS gender clinics in order to avoid the increasing suicide rate caused by their unprofessional attitudes.
Berliegh,
Thats horrible, he acually wrote "under the delusion...", what a dick, mixed up with another patients file, is a bull->-bleeped-<- way of getting themselves out of trouble. God thats so rude, maybe he is under the delusion of being human.
Quote from: mara on January 26, 2008, 01:00:20 PM
Berliegh,
Thats horrible, he acually wrote "under the delusion...", what a dick, mixed up with another patients file, is a bull->-bleeped-<- way of getting themselves out of trouble. God thats so rude, maybe he is under the delusion of being human.
Montgomery from Charing Cross GIC wrote
'He is under the delusion that he is female' in a letter to my GP in 2002. Note they use 'He' instead of 'She'. Also patients files were mixed up and I got another letter from Barrett acusing me of
'taking illigitimate hormones from the internet' but in reality I was obtaining them through my GP on NHS prescription. When challenged about this Charing Cross admitted they had mixed up my files with another patient...
Wow.
Can you say: Lawsuit? ;D
That's what I would do.
Sue them to the ground.
I can't believe they have been getting away with this for so long.
How come nobody has sued them yet?
If they did that here, they would've been sued long ago.
Do they have some sort of immunity or somthing?
Sara
cant really sue over here without massive problems, and takes forever... we dont have the US blame culture quite yet
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 03:36:53 AM
cant really sue over here without massive problems, and takes forever... we dont have the US blame culture quite yet
R >:D
Rachael's right......over here in the U.K you have to have a few deaths before they start taking any notice.......and I know of a couple of suicide cases who were patients at Charing Cross.....but the NHS is the hardest nut to crack!
Quote from: Sarah on January 28, 2008, 01:04:14 PM
Wow.
Can you say: Lawsuit? ;D
That's what I would do.
Sue them to the ground.
I can't believe they have been getting away with this for so long.
How come nobody has sued them yet?
If they did that here, they would've been sued long ago.
Do they have some sort of immunity or somthing?
Sara
Something is in the works.........and I will be meeting with two politicians next month to talk about the subject...
Its not easy to sue the government over here either. And, despite a few cases that garner too much attention, most lawsuits are about responsibility, not blame. So, like the case of the Ford Pinto, where the designers knew it was going to have explosion problems when rear-ended, and the corporate management did a nice simple cost accounting and figured that the money spent on paying out lawsuits would be less than the profit they would make.
Quote from: tekla on January 29, 2008, 03:01:17 PM
Its not easy to sue the government over here either. And, despite a few cases that garner too much attention, most lawsuits are about responsibility, not blame. So, like the case of the Ford Pinto, where the designers knew it was going to have explosion problems when rear-ended, and the corporate management did a nice simple cost accounting and figured that the money spent on paying out lawsuits would be less than the profit they would make.
Hmmmm. So that scene in Fight Club where Edward Norton's character is inspecting the burnt out car while explaining about "the formula" ... they actually do that ... why am I not in the least bit surprised.
I had my own joyous run-in with the NHS - didn't even make it to Charing Cross. After my GP treated me like garbage when I came out to him last week, I decided to try and find out for myself about my options as a resident on a limited visa. I phoned up the local PCT, Charing Cross itself, even the Department of Health - nobody could tell me if I'd qualify for treatment at Charing Cross or not, and lets just say that, apart from one girl who was really nice about it and tried her best to help out, the other end of the phone was icy. I simply don't think GID is a high priority on the NHS list, for obvious ideological reasons - so what if a couple of freaks jump off of the occasional building...
I was really hoping to get some kind of supervision for my illicit anti-androgen taking, but I'll just have to keep self-medicating until I get back home to South Africa. I just hope the Gender Clinic at Pretoria Academic in South Africa is better than this bunch...
If they are, I'll let everybody know. Please feel free to immigrate. We have great weather, lots of wild animals, and since all the skilled people leave the country for greener pastures, companies can't be too picky about who they hire. ;)
Given what I've read from the Brits here, hard to imagine anything worse. In the USA, were 'reinventing' yourself is a national pastime, all it really takes is the right doctor, and for your check to clear.
its ironic, considering we have the best protective laws and records change laws :D ><
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 10:34:30 PM
its ironic, considering we have the best protective laws and records change laws :D ><
R >:D
On records change, yeah, I'd agree, but I think South Africa probably is, legeslatively at least, more trans-friendly than anywhere else around. Non discrimination against trans people is written into our constitution, along with any other basis for discrimination.
Unfortunately though, if you want to change your legal gender, you must have had SRS, which we obviously feel is rather wrong.
Quote from: lady amarant on January 30, 2008, 12:17:14 AM
Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 10:34:30 PM
its ironic, considering we have the best protective laws and records change laws :D ><
R >:D
On records change, yeah, I'd agree, but I think South Africa probably is, legeslatively at least, more trans-friendly than anywhere else around. Non discrimination against trans people is written into our constitution, along with any other basis for discrimination.
Unfortunately though, if you want to change your legal gender, you must have had SRS, which we obviously feel is rather wrong.
SRS? If only..
Hi all
I had the misfortune to seek treatment via CHX and later the Claybrook Clinic. I had the misfortune of falling under the "care" of the esteemed (by his peers but not his patients) Richard Green. On one occasion he told me with a certain amount of pride that the suicide rate amongst CHX patients was only 18%. He seemed to think this was quite an achievement. It was an extremely negative experience that nearly lead to the darknes.
When I stopped going to Claybrook because it was such a negative experience and later told my GP I was going to Curtis she told me she said " I think thats a really good move and I support you fully" She sent a very positive letter to him and I got a referral after my second appointment with him(total cost £200 plus expenses) All HRT and tests still funded by NHS.
When I told my local shrink (NHS) that I was thinking of going to (he said Thailand) to see (he said Suporn) he thought I was making an excellent choice. I was slightly freaked by this experience.
FF to Thailand and a couple of months off work and I am fixed. Thank you Dr S.
FF to 3 months PO and I am "fixed". I still have my job with both more responsibility and confidence. I can swim over a mile and am currently aiming for two miles.
The NHS generally I think is very good. NHS Gender Clinics - a complete bag of ->-bleeped-<-.
Anne
Posted on: March 07, 2008, 04:59:52 PM
Hi all
I had the misfortune to seek treatment via CHX and later the Claybrook Clinic. I had the misfortune of falling under the "care" of the esteemed (by his peers but not his patients) Richard Green. On one occasion he told me with a certain amount of pride that the suicide rate amongst CHX patients was only 18%. He seemed to think this was quite an achievement. It was an extremely negative experience that nearly lead to the darkne
When I stopped going to Claybrook because it was such a negative experience and later told my GP I was going to Curtis she told me she said " I think thats a really good move and I support you fully" She sent a very positive letter to him and I got a referral after my second appointment with him(total cost £200 plus expenses) All HRT and tests still funded by NHS.
When I told my local shrink (NHS) that I was thinking of going to (he said Thailand) to see (he said Suporn) he thought I was making an excellent choice. I was slightly freaked by this experience.
FF to Thailand and a couple of months off work and I am fixed. Thank you Dr S.
FF to 3 months PO and I am "fixed". I still have my job with both more responsibility and confidence. I can swim over a mile and am currently aiming for two miles.
The NHS generally I think is very good. NHS Gender Clinics - a complete bag of ->-bleeped-<-.
Anne
Anne, many thanks for your post which of course highlights the truth about the serious problems you can be faced with if you go the NHS GIC clinic route in the South East / London area.
I'm currently under glasgow's sandyford.. which isnt so bad i guess called up in march (when i went ft), got an appointment in july and now (after being told no HRT till one yr at the least after doing an RLT) i am back asking for HRt, apparently sha wants to wait till ive done exams.. but im going nuts. i asked her do i need to change my name for the RLT she said RLT doesnt exist here, that the UK does not follow guidelines - which is fantastic *eyeroll*
our lives in their little pen pushing hands...
Quote from: Judge Yourself on March 15, 2008, 12:44:06 PM
I'm currently under glasgow's sandyford.. which isnt so bad i guess called up in march (when i went ft), got an appointment in july and now (after being told no HRT till one yr at the least after doing an RLT) i am back asking for HRt, apparently sha wants to wait till ive done exams.. but im going nuts. i asked her do i need to change my name for the RLT she said RLT doesnt exist here, that the UK does not follow guidelines - which is fantastic *eyeroll*
our lives in their little pen pushing hands...
Glasgow's sandyford is probably the best option NHS GIC in the U.K and is where I've ended up now. I suffered a lot of abuse at Charing Cross GIC and wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I'm surprised Sandyford would make you wait a year for HRT (Charing Cross made me wait 2 years). In the end I had enough of the NHS at that time and went private in order to start on HRT.
Ive had to wait 12 months befor my GP will refer me to a GIC. Only last week did he send my referal to Leister GIC. Just another waiting game now.... :-\
Quote from: Lucy on March 20, 2008, 06:30:34 AM
Ive had to wait 12 months befor my GP will refer me to a GIC. Only last week did he send my referal to Leister GIC. Just another waiting game now.... :-\
Lucy, I mentioned before that I personally think the NHS is not the way to go and I have had to learn the hard way. I wouldn't want you to spend 8 years fighting with the NHS system for treatment and referrals like I had to, and I'm still doing...
However, I do think I was probably living in the worst area of the U.K (being in the South East) for NHS treatment and I'm not sure how Leicster GIC conduct themselves, but oveverall it's a battle going through the NHS for treatment across the board..
Quote from: Berliegh on March 20, 2008, 06:41:44 AM
Quote from: Lucy on March 20, 2008, 06:30:34 AM
Ive had to wait 12 months befor my GP will refer me to a GIC. Only last week did he send my referal to Leister GIC. Just another waiting game now.... :-\
Lucy, I mentioned before that I personally think the NHS is not the way to go and I have had to learn the hard way. I wouldn't want you to spend 8 years fighting with the NHS system for treatment and referrals like I had to, and I'm still doing...
However, I do think I was probably living in the worst area of the U.K (being in the South East) for NHS treatment and I'm not sure how Leicster GIC conduct themselves, but oveverall it's a battle going through the NHS for treatment across the board..
The only thing is to keep you posted about how quickly things move on and the experteese of the people there. I have oftern considered self medicating but wouldnt know where to start. I will just stick with the NHS for now..
Quote from: Lucy on March 20, 2008, 06:49:12 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on March 20, 2008, 06:41:44 AM
Quote from: Lucy on March 20, 2008, 06:30:34 AM
Ive had to wait 12 months befor my GP will refer me to a GIC. Only last week did he send my referal to Leister GIC. Just another waiting game now.... :-\
Lucy, I mentioned before that I personally think the NHS is not the way to go and I have had to learn the hard way. I wouldn't want you to spend 8 years fighting with the NHS system for treatment and referrals like I had to, and I'm still doing...
However, I do think I was probably living in the worst area of the U.K (being in the South East) for NHS treatment and I'm not sure how Leicster GIC conduct themselves, but oveverall it's a battle going through the NHS for treatment across the board..
The only thing is to keep you posted about how quickly things move on and the experteese of the people there. I have oftern considered self medicating but wouldnt know where to start. I will just stick with the NHS for now..
I didn't go down the self medication route. I attended Charing Cross GIC for two years but they still refused to provide hormone treatment. So I went private and started on hormones the same afternoon as my private appointment....
This highlighted the perspective between private healthcare and the NHS..
For myself and many people finance is their biggest stumbling block....
Quote from: Berliegh on March 20, 2008, 05:03:05 AM
Quote from: Judge Yourself on March 15, 2008, 12:44:06 PM
I'm currently under glasgow's sandyford.. which isnt so bad i guess called up in march (when i went ft), got an appointment in july and now (after being told no HRT till one yr at the least after doing an RLT) i am back asking for HRt, apparently sha wants to wait till ive done exams.. but im going nuts. i asked her do i need to change my name for the RLT she said RLT doesnt exist here, that the UK does not follow guidelines - which is fantastic *eyeroll*
our lives in their little pen pushing hands...
Glasgow's sandyford is probably the best option NHS GIC in the U.K and is where I've ended up now. I suffered a lot of abuse at Charing Cross GIC and wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I'm surprised Sandyford would make you wait a year for HRT (Charing Cross made me wait 2 years). In the end I had enough of the NHS at that time and went private in order to start on HRT.
yeah i cant complain, i love it in glasgow and theyve been great to me
apparently because t works so quickly they make you wait a yr to make sure you know what youre doing etc which is fine cause ive just completed it :D
the surgery issue however is a different story - the guy up here retired and theres no one to replace him so we all join the london queue... which is unbearably long to see some guy who doesnt seem to know what hes doing
im saving up and going private
Quote from: Judge Yourself on March 20, 2008, 04:31:34 PM
the surgery issue however is a different story - the guy up here retired and theres no one to replace him so we all join the london queue... which is unbearably long to see some guy who doesnt seem to know what he's doing
im saving up and going private
That just about sums it up....
Hello people, I've not seen anyone else in the Manchester area on here yet. I called the Manchester "Psychosexual Counselling Unit" yesterday and was told to get a referral from my GP first and then I'll have to fill out a questionairre and wait 6-8 weeks for my first appointment with them. I have an appointment with my GP in 2 weeks so my first consultation with an expert could be as early as 8 weeks from now. I'll let you know how it goes :)
I've had bad experiences with the NHS in the past for other reasons so I don't have high hopes really. But who knows, she could be wonderful!
Quote from: Alex on April 17, 2008, 09:31:47 AM
Hello people, I've not seen anyone else in the Manchester area on here yet. I called the Manchester "Psychosexual Counselling Unit" yesterday and was told to get a referral from my GP first and then I'll have to fill out a questionairre and wait 6-8 weeks for my first appointment with them. I have an appointment with my GP in 2 weeks so my first consultation with an expert could be as early as 8 weeks from now. I'll let you know how it goes :)
I've had bad experiences with the NHS in the past for other reasons so I don't have high hopes really. But who knows, she could be wonderful!
Nice one Alex, keep it up...
Good luck, but don't expect that sort of wait.... be prepared for longer... you'll only be disappointed if they screw you over...
im from near manchester originally Alex, i used to live in Urmston....
R >:D
Can we have an update with this topic? has the service at Charing Cross GIC improved in anyway? has anyone recent experience of CX GIC? and are there any improvements with their services in recent years / months?
Quote from: Berliegh on December 22, 2007, 01:29:16 AM
That's not my experience at all. I attended a London NHS Gender clinic for 2 years from 2001 to 2003 and still got continually refused HRT. So in the end I had no choice than to go private (cost £200) and got the HRT prescription at the appointment the same afternoon......so it was still good value compared to 2 years of fighting with the NHS...
I also have an intersexed condition which the London NHS gender clinic were made aware of and have been living a RLT for 5 years (backed up by full documentation etc) yet the London NHS Gender clinic still refused to give me a referral for SRS....
I have now taken legal steps against them as they have deliberately avoided helping me with my treatment.....
Since leaving the London NHS Gender clinic I have had far more success and have secured referrals on my own for FFS and Breast augmentation still through the NHS, so as Keira rightly says the NHS is not the problem on it's own but the Gender Clinic system is the problem.....
And they want to institute a NHS in the US.... I do not think this benefits anyone.
Maybe a compromise. Keep insurance the way it is ( maybe reform it a little better ).
Add a NHS system for the uninsured ( or the insured where the particular medical procedure(s) are not covered ) and pay doctors that are done with their residency for a 5 year term and forgive their Student loans.
Daisy
Quote from: daisybelle on July 15, 2009, 09:53:42 AM
And they want to institute a NHS in the US.... I do not think this benefits anyone.
Maybe a compromise. Keep insurance the way it is ( maybe reform it a little better ).
Add a NHS system for the uninsured ( or the insured where the particular medical procedure(s) are not covered ) and pay doctors that are done with their residency for a 5 year term and forgive their Student loans.
Daisy
I agree and I live in the U.K. The NHS has been quite damaging towards the TG community. The 'Gatekeeper' syndrome of the NHS tends to drive people away from the NHS. Private treatment here is very expensive but far more beneficial.
Here is someone else's critical viewpoint of the NHS:
http://foxstales.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-bless-our-national-health-service.html (http://foxstales.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-bless-our-national-health-service.html)
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 16, 2009, 04:41:16 AM
I agree and I live in the U.K. The NHS has been quite damaging towards the TG community. The 'Gatekeeper' syndrome of the NHS tends to drive people away from the NHS. Private treatment here is very expensive but far more beneficial.
Here is someone else's critical viewpoint of the NHS:
http://foxstales.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-bless-our-national-health-service.html (http://foxstales.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-bless-our-national-health-service.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.bigoo.ws%2Fcontent%2Fsmile%2Fmiscellaneous%2Fsmile_131.gif&hash=fa15c9959bcc6756d58be75b425b98001a9f5596) Naturally Blonde (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.bigoo.ws%2Fcontent%2Fsmile%2Fmiscellaneous%2Fsmile_131.gif&hash=fa15c9959bcc6756d58be75b425b98001a9f5596) and (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartof.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fxsmall2%2F401_blond_girl.gif&hash=fc9be0d0400adbf846e632dd5b3fbd8c94231bcd)smart (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartof.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fxsmall2%2F401_blond_girl.gif&hash=fc9be0d0400adbf846e632dd5b3fbd8c94231bcd) too. I like it...
:icon_bunch: :icon_bunch: Daisy :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch:
And they want to institute a NHS in the US.
This is not true. I don't know if the intent was to deliberately mislead, or comes from accidentally believing Faux News or Glenn Beck (and we all hope he can get some coverage to treat his mental illness), nothing even remotely comparable to this has been proposed by anyone in Congress or the White House. What is being - or should be - proposed is a health plan buy-in that would offer people an option to private insurance, not a national health care system that would be controlled 100% from top to bottom by the Federal Government like the NHS is. As it is, most people are under some form of 'managed care' at any rate, so it just depends on who you want - or trust - to manage it, and what the motivation for the management decisions is, a healthy population or a bottom line.
Quote from: daisybelle on July 16, 2009, 11:59:02 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.bigoo.ws%2Fcontent%2Fsmile%2Fmiscellaneous%2Fsmile_131.gif&hash=fa15c9959bcc6756d58be75b425b98001a9f5596) Naturally Blonde (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.bigoo.ws%2Fcontent%2Fsmile%2Fmiscellaneous%2Fsmile_131.gif&hash=fa15c9959bcc6756d58be75b425b98001a9f5596) and (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartof.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fxsmall2%2F401_blond_girl.gif&hash=fc9be0d0400adbf846e632dd5b3fbd8c94231bcd)smart (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartof.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fxsmall2%2F401_blond_girl.gif&hash=fc9be0d0400adbf846e632dd5b3fbd8c94231bcd) too. I like it...
:icon_bunch: :icon_bunch: Daisy :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch:
This is just so true, the blog item to, the NHS dont care about trans people, they dont want to help and they dont see anything wrong with it.
Does any one deserve this treatment.... NO
Quote from: Lucy on July 17, 2009, 01:09:24 AM
This is just so true, the blog item to, the NHS dont care about trans people, they dont want to help and they dont see anything wrong with it.
Does any one deserve this treatment.... NO
Thank you Lucy and Daisy. I want people to see what actually goes on the U.K and the nature of the NHS towards TG people. I'm also grateful for the threads others have started and the websites that highlight this awful injustice which has gone on for far too long..