Wondering what you guys & girls think about this.
I usually have trouble regarding the experiences of people who are not so dysphoric.
I mean, it´s fine. Not having a lot of dysphoria is good, I think. Of course dysphoria isn´t this static phenomenon either; it tends to shift over time, sometimes it´s worse than others.
I don´t know if it´s jealousy (to think that others may be more capable of dealing with their bodies), or the fact that it makes me uncomfortable that they do accept their body more. Their comfort with their body makes me more uncomfortable because on some level it makes me feel as if I should be comfortable with it too.
I know that this isn´t true. I also know that some people feel guilty that they do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminished their "transgender-ness". Which is not true, either.
How do you experience this?
I think because I still have internalised transphobia I'm skeptical of trans people who say they don't have dysphoria at all. I feel that a trans person must at least have social dysphoria; because how could being referred to as your birth gender not make you feel at least slightly bad at least some of the time.
When it comes to varying degrees of body dysphoria in trans people tbh I haven't really given it much thought. Although this is probably because I'm nb and have been on T for over a year now; sort of forgotten almost completely how I felt pre T. To me it makes sense that there are trans people who are sort of ok with their bodies and it doesn't me uncomfortable per se. It makes me slightly feel bad just because in general I should be more body positive; being trans has got nothing to do with that. I don't understand how anyone can like their bodies 100%. I'm guessing it just takes years of personal growth and becoming older to not care so much. At the old age of 23 I now am I'm slowly starting to get there (with the help of the right hormones) but I still have days when my body lets me down.
There most surely be some degree of dysphoria for any that wish to transition? Perhaps very mild, but something like a slight annoyance at being called by the wrong pronouns, or at the appearance of ones body; something? Or do some simply enjoy the idea of transitioning and think they would enjoy life more after doing so, but also dont feel any distress at all living as their born gender? I hadn't really considered that to be honest.
I would describe myself as a pulsing ball of dysphoria; it's quite a bit diminished since finally starting HRT but was a huge problem for me prior to that, and i still get hit by it in a big way now and then.. My genitals are by far the biggest cause and I really cannot deal with that thing at all, to the point where even being intimate with my past partners I would never want to involve it. I became extremely distressed when my last partner tried to force the issue several times during intimacy; this was 6 years ago and I havent dated since, so I guess you could say it rather spoiled romance for me :) . I am hoping to complete my surgery before pursuing a relationship again, even though I miss having one and surgery certainly being some time away still..
But I dont know if I can really compare emotions to what others feel.. People who say they feel less dysphoria than me may just be stronger and more secure people who handle the very same emotions I experience better than I do. I'm sure lots of transgenders hate their genitals just as much as I do, but are still able to look past them and focus on the act of intimacy rather than having the 'right bits' for it. I'm simply not strong enough to work past the discomfort and enjoy the moment.
I'm not really decided on any sorta identity though. I know that what I feel though is:
Socially: Feminine things irritate the <not allowed> out of me in an unnecessary way. Not like, feminine people, just... So I like painting my nails occasionally while watching a film, alone (though not much or for long since I think my hands look more masc with short nails, no polish as usual). If someone starts a nail painting sesh around me it becomes suffocating and wierd. Similar to how I hate being in the women's departments of clothes shops. I feel insulted also if someone calls me a lady, or just some sort of loaded statement about my femininity. I also find that guys are easier for me to hang out with but will eventually have to point out that I'm a girl, whereas as much as I like hanging out with women they never take me in properly and find me to be an enigma. I also feel like I've hidden and not enjoyed a lot of my hobbies because of some sort of shame about their masculinity. And I have a complex about dating men because this makes them really treat me like a girl and it's awkward. Pronouns are just words and mean nothing to me. A window is grammatically female in french - these little things mean nothing (I get why it would to many people though). Oh and I also want to gag when butches talk about how their not trans because they love being female - like... Why?
Body: I feel fairly Zen about my body. Possibly because I never used to look in mirrors since I was a kid because I felt it was weird to see what I actually looked like. I always thought my ass was weirdly large when naked but how much naked mirror staring do I do? Vaginas are weird and I think mines weird and it's my elast favourite body part but I just have to be like, oh well genitals are weird, cos they are. It's also a very ignorable body part unless your having sex which I'm not. Naked I think I'd look unnaturally skinny without boobs and I like the nipple sensitivity and all but when I actually dress they ruin how I think I should look so they increasingly piss me off the more I actually start to look in the mirror when I dress. I also wear looser jeans so as to fill out my skinny legs. I have had weird moments where I feel like I need desperately to have a more masculine haircut or to bind to be what I want to see in the mirror... And I could do those things. I also want to do weight training. But as a whole my body is fine and I am less concerned with it that most female friendsive had (most male ones haven't expressed much babout such things)
Yes I'm not really sure how one would justify transitioning.when feeling not particularly distressed socially and pretty Zen physically as I described. The idea of being a guy is really cool to me but surgery for that reason... Nah mate not in this current state of mind.
I don't know how others experience it.
But I do know for a long time I thought I was one of them. Someone who just didn't feel that bad about it.
Except that wasn't even true - as soon as I became aware of all the terminology, the studies, the options and what transsexual actually meant, and allowed time to think about it... peeled back some of the layers to look at what I felt underneath, and holy ****. Miles of dissociation and anger and resignation under there, rather than "not feeling all that much about it". I hadn't felt anything because I'd effectively mentally cut off half of myself or more to escape the torment. I'd also tried to forget about it by concentrating upon being in a relationship with someone.
Sometimes I wonder if it hasn't sunk in for some of those people yet. And when it does it'll hit them like a ton of lead, like it did me. Or maybe they genuinely don't feel that much of it. All cases are unique. Their cases don't affect mine though. I tend not to judge my own psyche issues too deeply by how others react to theirs. I don't understand how they could have such a lighter attitude to it - but they know their own selves best.
Sometimes it is frustrating to deal with this different attitude - I have a friend who "questioned their gender" at one point but who decided against doing anything about it and who seems to want to impress the idea you should just "accept yourself" instead of seeking any sort of change... someone who didn't feel strongly enough to act on it, and maybe were just exploring concepts. People seem to think others should do and think how they do and think and I don't agree with that. My mother was the same, she claimed in a conversation once to feel "more like a man" than a woman, but ridiculed my decision to transition because she herself never felt the need for it. I since think that neither of them are trans people, and I've come to define my particular type of trans as the kind that definitely needs medical intervention. It's easier to separate myself off from all the different types I meet who all have different ideas about what being trans is and how it should be dealt with, rather than lumping them together and trying to compare them all to each other. It is better to concentrate purely on what I need. That's pretty much how the medical professionals want to handle each case too. They must have realized somewhere down the line you can't blanket-treat trans people. They're too diverse.
It might be worth thinking about how some people's bodies and gender presentations are already more or less "typically" masculine / feminine. For instance, I am AMAB and, while I don't quite know where my identity is headed, I have not been experiencing a crushing amount of dysphoria. However, I am slender, my body hair is very thin and light in color, I didn't have to start shaving until college, and I had been growing my hair long for months before realizing exactly why. I've been identifying as gay and am married to a man. I have always been bullied for being "too feminine." So while I'm AMAB, my gender expression has already strayed far from the norm. That, combined with some genetic luck, is helping me out. And perhaps a huge amount of denial, as Kylo rightly points out.
Definitely, Kylo, nobody should make it seem like you should just suck up dysphoria that's ridiculous. I've also never yet claimed to be trans with my comfy little self, just constantly a little confused. And not always totally comfy. Also I find a lot of women of past generations who had careers where they had to deal with men and breaking people's expectations of them like to go on about being just like a man. Yet they love feminine things and i wonder where they get that idea from.
Oh boy. Time to make myself unpopular.
There is research out there that says trans people have the brain structure of their gender and not their designated sex at birth. This is what causes dysphoria. In order to alleviate dysphoria, a person undergoes transition to the degree that is right for them. Therefore, being trans is a maladaptive condition which causes distress and requires medical intervention to correct.
I view being transsexual as a medical condition which is defined as having some degree of dysphoria. I think more people experience dysphoria than they are consciously aware of, and I also think it is very common for these feelings to start and often linger as social dysphoria. A lot of people I find either flat out don't recognize the discomfort and anxiety for what it is, or push it out of their mind as "not enough" because they aren't too put off by their junk. I was one of those people for a very long time.
In my experience, and in the experiences of many post-op trans men that I have read, it is also fairly common for social dysphoria to go away throughout the course of transition while sex dysphoria becomes more pronounced. So in line with that, I also think a lot of people looking at it from the outside thinking "ehhh I'm not dysphoric enough to do XYZ" might actually be that dysphoric when push comes to shove.
And on the flip side, I think there are a lot of confused people out there who for whatever reason have picked up the "trans identity" and are clinging to it when they should not be. This bothers me a lot, as I most often find it to be rooted in sexism. Often what I hear from these people is that they feel like/identify as a man or woman, behave like a man or woman, and relate to the label of man or woman. This implies that all men and women behave, feel, act, etc. in exactly the same ways and that being a man or woman is a universal experience. You can be a masculine woman. You can be a feminine man. It's internalized sexism to assume that you must be trans because you don't fit this idea of masculinity or femininity that you've created in your head for your birth sex.
I believe all trans people experience dysphoria to a degree. To what degree that is, is highly personal and variable. I believe anyone who claims to not experience dysphoria at all is either not trans and/or needs to really evaluate what made them think they were in the first place.
It's frowned upon in society to have a medical condition. Nobody wants that for themselves. We stigmatize it. And I think that's a big hurdle for a lot of people to get over when it relates to themselves. They put the blinders on and just keep moseying along because it's easier in this time to self identify as trans than it is to admit that you have a medical condition that's causing you some issues that you've ignored.
Quote from: FTMax on February 22, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
In my experience, and in the experiences of many post-op trans men that I have read, it is also fairly common for social dysphoria to go away throughout the course of transition while sex dysphoria becomes more pronounced. So in line with that, I also think a lot of people looking at it from the outside thinking "ehhh I'm not dysphoric enough to do XYZ" might actually be that dysphoric when push comes to shove.
Yeah. If anyone'd asked me 3-4 years ago if I was bothered by the idea people like me had more problems finding partners to date because of the issues of disclosure and the "physical limitations" of our condition, I'd have said no, what do I care. If they asked me did I care about the results of lower surgery not being perfect I'd have said no, I don't care. If they asked if I give a damn about any of that side of things I'd have said no. If they asked me was I going to start fretting about height, jaw structure, etc. I'd have said no.
Now I'm actually pretty angry about these things. It's as if they were all frozen before, but have started to thaw out and dumped themselves in a pile in my brain. And more than just those issues since I started this 'journey' that for whatever reason I never had to face before because the trans thing without treatment had me in some kind of
stasis, I guess. I'm struggling to keep up with them as they come out of containment. I didn't expect dysphoria of those to increase at all. The more normal I start to feel, the more narked off I become that I'm
still not normal.
So... there may well be unexpected dysphoric episodes round corners, even for those who don't feel especially bad at the start.
I'm the odd one for I am scientific when it comes to dealing with my issues,i access the situation,disect it,look at it from all sides then I face the problem and move on. I've always knew I was a female living in a male world because I had the genitals of a male,then puberty grew to a aa cup breast,that was a experience in itself here I as uppose to be male but I had female attributes which attracted bullies it was life. I was going too transition to fill female then I met the women who would be my wife and I wanted children she wanted children so I made adjustments and later me and my wife made another adjustment. I still present as male but people know me as a male and I have a good reputation. I am out of the closet and quite a few people know but it's something we not talk about. I have a fear of high places but will be the first one up,i have faced all my fears and my fears lost. I am at peace with myself.
I am kind of one of those people that feels guilty that I do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminishes my "transgender-ness". Some of the comments made by FTMax don't help me work through that either, but I try not to let it get me down.
I don't experience what I understand to be dysphoria in a textbook sense. Do I feel that my body isn't a match...yes. Do I think all the angles and hair are yucky...yes. But do I feel as though I am in crises and have to remedy this NOW...nope.
I figure age must be a factor in my case. This body has carried me through 39 years in a life that is fulfilling in many ways. My loving wife was attracted to this body. This body fathered 5 kids. After all this time, I suppose there is a certain level of acceptance.
Corny analogy alert! Have you ever had a ugly old car that accepted and even had some affinity for? Maybe it didn't match your personality and it was ugly but darn if it didn't see you through jobs, relationships, college or whatever else. Sure you didn't like it and you wanted it gone, but maybe you didn't hate it. Well I see this ugly old body as a vehicle for my soul. It's ugly and doesn't match me, but I don't hate it. It's just high time that I trade it in for one that matches who I really am.
Quote from: Kylo on February 22, 2017, 08:03:23 PM
It's as if they were all frozen before, but have started to thaw out and dumped themselves in a pile in my brain.
I agree that transition has this effect. Also, if one is considering medically transitioning, one should consider that where one is pre-transition, is often not where one will be as the medication begins its work and delivers very real cognitive changes as well. Some things that weren't such a big deal before, suddenly pop up as new priorities. So yeah part of it is thawing out, but part of it is the changes that are engineered by the medications as well. But then the whole point of transition is TO CHANGE. We accept this going in, at least if we have done our homework, that the changes are unpredictable and highly variable based on the individual. Medical intervention should never be taken lightly, but if one just can't continue in the old ways knowing they weren't working anymore it does provide a path forward.
Also, just coming out and being out causes some pretty significant ideational changes as to how and why we relate to our social support system the way we do as well.
Ever have someone ask you, Whats wrong, why are you feeling so bad? and you are unable to answer with certainty?
Due to the persistently stigmatized and even hated and marginalized minority status of being a transgender person it seems little wonder we might develop gender dysphoria. Having a dysphoric feeling is, as our dictionary notes, a generalized sense or feeling. Therefore being aware of this feeling of generalized unease and dissatisfaction is in itself a break through for many of us. Understanding the source of our feelings and connecting the dots can then take a lifetime for some of us. I simply didn't know how hard and how well I had been repressing, coping and acting like i should. I invested big time in staying busy and not reflecting on the constant sense that something is so wrong with me. I crossdressed for years and forgot about it. I did not accept myself as trans until I had the time and safety in retirement to work through the dysphoria and determine the real source. Only then did it become gender dysphoria for me.
My career was in anesthesia and I understand pain. Our pain and suffering can be quite real without our being able to accurately locate or diagnose the cause.
Yes, as Tessa James said, I think one can often bury ones feelings for seemingly practical reasons in such a way that it becomes less obvious where they are coming from in the first place. I've watched many a YouTube video of now fully transexual people who did not know for a long time they were trans, they were just consumed by depressive feelings and an inability to fit in and find themselves that they infuriatingly could not put their finger on. For example Aydain Dowling talks about rampaging around furious at everything for no apparent reason. And others talk about slightly less dramatic manifestations but similarly abstract.
Quote from: Danielle834 on February 22, 2017, 11:25:17 PM
I am kind of one of those people that feels guilty that I do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminishes my "transgender-ness". Some of the comments made by FTMax don't help me work through that either, but I try not to let it get me down.
Saying you don't experience as much dysphoria as others implies that you do experience dysphoria. My issue is with people who experience no dysphoria who would say they are trans despite that fact.
That's a fair distinction. Thank you for the clarification. What stood out to me was that you 'believe anyone who claims to not experience dysphoria at all is either not trans and/or needs to really evaluate what made them think they were in the first place.' I see now that you say 'at all'. I'm still learning a lot and where I missed the mark is that I suppose dysphoria is a broad scale. I have a tendency (incorrectly) to think of dysphoria generally being a crisis feeling. That you are repulsed by your body and that you HAVE to get it changed NOW. That is something that I don't feel, just a sense that my body isn't attractive, doesn't match and that I want to change it in due time. To your point, I suppose that is dyspohria too, just elsewhere on the scale. Thanks again for the clarification.
I've had a number of conversations with folks who both cross-dress and claim to be non-dysphoric. Things get interesting when I ask them about why or how often they cross-dress. The answer is often 'I need to', or 'I feel better when I do', and when talking about how often, it's often driven by a sensation of need or longing. That sounds awfully familiar...
They are not non-dysphoric, in my opinion, although they are of course welcome to their own opinion and may be more comfortable with denial. I suspect that dysphoria comes in a range of intensities, and rather than being non-dysphoric, is just fairly mild with some folks who still land under the transgender umbrella.
Don't get me wrong I had major disphoria when I was 13 -14 but I read a lot and study a lot so I studied myself through the resources on hand and found that was driving my anger issues for I fit nowhere and had few friends so I turned to pot and booze and then things changed when I got married and still carried the burden alone even knowing my wife knew for I told her early in before we got married but never fully acted on it,til the day I tried to sabatoge our relationship and he wouldn't take no for a answer then I leveled withe her and our relationship for better. My disphoria was due to puberty giving me a girls puberty and not a male one.
Much of my original dysphoria was about the social, not about the physical parts of me. For instance, I had a lot of athletic performance to tell me that my body at least could do things well. But, I badly needed to be with women socially and for them to recognize me as one of them. This consumed much of my brain cycles.
I don't feel like the lack of much physical dysphoria makes me less trans. I do envy like pretty much everyone else, when others have it easy in areas that i struggle, but then i remind myself the they envy stuff about me.
As my body changed, i have become more physically focused for sure and that is a new feeling for me, so we will see how that unfolds, perhaps i will develop envy there, perhaps not.
Thats an interesting question, I agree with and relate to everything stated above.
With me, I definitely started out not understanding if I was transgender or not, and didnt think I felt dysphoria and thought I couldnt be validated as transgender. I dont think I even understood what dysphoria was.
Turns out after all I DID experience dysphoria, it became more obvious when it clicked and I realized I may be trans. Looking back I did not like puberty. Looking back I was apathetic to certain aspects of my body, I didnt like it all that much, it just seemed 'off'. I was "okay" with being a girl, Ive never considered myself ugly and I saw myself as fairly attractive, I kind of just ignored it and lived with it and was myself, I was "okay" I often told myself, I wasnt highly depressive or experiencing suicidal tendencies. Thing is, I realized I like the idea of being male even more, that it made me happier. The idea of top surgery greatly appealed to me and I started to dream of it, and I realized my small chest that Ive always been confused about and ungirly is my greatest asset until I can transition. I liked the idea of being a feminine male, I knew I wasnt going to change myself in drastic ways and being a guy that way helped me realize where I lie. When I started realizing I could go from "okay" to happy, I started to feel better.
I think I never realized it, but the dysphoria seemed to clamp down on my confidence levels, Im a little less anxious and a little more confident being a guy. Funny how I never knew that all along.
Dyshoria to me was just discomfort, nothing extreme like suicidal tendencies or depression, but a lot of the times a deepset feeling of apathy and resentment, of not caring all that much and trying to find ways to care about myself even though I knew I was attractive. It was learning to handle the strangeness I felt with certain traits of my body.
Ive come to accept some things. I still want top surgery, but Ive accepted some feminine or female traits as part of myself as being a man. I still am small, have a little bit of a female figure, and female genitalia. Im okay with these, and the last one mainly because that cannot easily change. Ive learned that despite these Im still a man like I feel, and Im still happy and comfortable that way and learned to accept those things.
Most people might consider the fact I can accept certain aspects of myself and be happy as odd, but the important thing is I look like a male, act like a male, feel like a male, and have changes in masculinity where it counts.
I find it weird when people dont feel any kind of physical or social discomfort, otherwise it just seems as if they are doing it for fun, for recognition, or because of misinformation. I understand people can also just be confused as I was, though. Therefore no matter how skeptical I am of someone else its important for them to make their own decisions on what makes them happy. Most people need to talk out their feelings and be informed when deciding, and in the end its about what makes them happy amd thats up to themselves to learn truthfully.
An interesting question, as two years ago, I would have not identified as trans, or even understood what dysphoria is.
It's taken a lot of self examination to understand since that I get socially dysphoric. However, I never had until I I started reading up, words for my perpetual hatred of my genitals and my 24/7 awareness that they are there; in fact I can clearly remember a conversation with my partner about my awareness, because I asked her if that was normal. Her answer then, No. I now know why.
That awareness is there every day, a continuous annoyance. Prior to my realisation that I was, in fact, somewhere in this rainbow blend, it was just that, an annoyance - I now know what that actually is, and my dysphoria and I talk each day - doing so has helped lessen the sheer irritation.
I can see there being the possibility of not understanding dysphoria, or not having insight to be able to put two and two together, and yet being a part of a transgender group - whether we like it or not, our subconscious mind probably keeps us going back because we are in a group that understands, even if we don't understand ourselves...
Sno
Concepts don't exist in human minds unless they have the language for them.
Before I was aware of gender variance, trans issues, etc., I simply chose other labels for my discomfort, or blamed my upbringing.
Examples:
I didn't like to dress up or wear make up because my parents ignored me and fussed over my curly-haired sister.
I had little interest in dating men because I was raised abroad and wasn't familiar with US courting rituals.
I was rowdy and outdoorsy because my two brothers made me an honorary boy.
I was always angry because my parents didn't accept me.
I constantly fought depression, because of my parents' rejection as well, etc.
It wasn't until I realized I'm a partial transmale that could see that factor alone could account for all the other things, including being at least partly the reason for my parents' baffled rejection of me.
I couldn't explain why I avoided looking in the mirror or at photos and was horrified and ashamed to see myself unclothed, or why being called a "girl" or by my given name, caused a flash of outraged anger I had to quickly suppress. I simply ignored it and coped as well as I could by avoiding whatever caused the discomfort.
Denial is actually a useful adaptive mechanism. It isn't until we get on the right track gender-wise, that we can see the previously mislabeled anger, depression, lack of social skills, self-hate, body bashing, or whatever the problems were for what they are..gender dysphonia.
Quote from: Raell on March 01, 2017, 06:15:19 AM
Concepts don't exist in human minds unless they have the language for them.
Before I was aware of gender variance, trans issues, etc., I simply chose other labels for my discomfort, or blamed my upbringing.
Definitely agree, I think you sort of know youre trans beforehand but dont realize it until people rally and give the combined feelings you have a name, realizing that it isnt just you and others are like that too.
Before knowing that the label "tomboy" stuck, even though i didnt much like the word itself it was the closest fitting concept to what I was
Quote from: Tessa James on February 23, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Ever have someone ask you, Whats wrong, why are you feeling so bad? and you are unable to answer with certainty?
Due to the persistently stigmatized and even hated and marginalized minority status of being a transgender person it seems little wonder we might develop gender dysphoria. Having a dysphoric feeling is, as our dictionary notes, a generalized sense or feeling. Therefore being aware of this feeling of generalized unease and dissatisfaction is in itself a break through for many of us.
Wow this is definitely me. Having mood changes for no apparent reason, being generally bored with my life, getting upset and angry for the smallest things, I always felt it was just part of who I am and that I was destined to feel bored and apathetic towards life for the rest of my existence...But I then started connecting the dots and realizing this might be linked to my gender identity.
Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on February 28, 2017, 10:26:25 PM
Dyshoria to me was just discomfort, nothing extreme like suicidal tendencies or depression, but a lot of the times a deepset feeling of apathy and resentment, of not caring all that much and trying to find ways to care about myself even though I knew I was attractive.
That's exactly how I feel. I'm "ok" with being a guy but not happy about it. And despite having a fairly successful love life and career, I'm still very apathetic and bored at everything. Thinking about being a woman is what brings me joy and takes me out of my reality to a happy place. Right now it feels like I am living, and always have lived, at a 40 or 50% when I could be living at a 100% or 120% but I know that staying like this it'll never happen.
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 17, 2017, 02:31:06 PM
That's exactly how I feel. I'm "ok" with being a guy but not happy about it. And despite having a fairly successful love life and career, I'm still very apathetic and bored at everything. Thinking about being a woman is what brings me joy and takes me out of my reality to a happy place. Right now it feels like I am living, and always have lived, at a 40 or 50% when I could be living at a 100% or 120% but I know that staying like this it'll never happen.
And i identify with this except the ok with being a guy part. Largely social dysphoria and only partially physical dysphoria led to the point of thinking about suicide often. I was a bored escapist. I had a great life, a spouse i love dearly, children, traveled the world, career etc. and i was feeling like "well this is all there is, it is only downhill from here. Living as a feminine guy didn't alleviate it enough.
I'm so glad i am still here though because i got to experience life as the real me. I have new friends and a new relationship that i love. My wife notices the level of happiness change too. There has been a price but it has been worth it. When i look back now i realized i was not living life fully.
I always knew I was dysphoric, but I thought that if I did all the right things, the feeling would go away. Like Raell, I thought that the "real" reason I hated being female was that I had a hard childhood. If only I "dealt with" my abuse issues, my abandonment issues, my dissociative issues, and my everything-but-the-kitchen-sink issues, I would at last become happy being a woman. Besides, transitioning sounded scary and like an awful lot of work. I told myself that I could settle for life as a female.
Then eventually I ran out of issues to deal with, and I still hated having boobs and a period and everything that goes with those things. One day I just sort of woke up and said, "I am ****ing done with this." And it feels great to confront the issue head on. I didn't realize just how much dysphoria I had until I started actively looking for it. It's sort of like vaguely wondering why your house has so little space, and then coming to realize that it's because you've been sharing it with a herd of elephants. Dysphoria was everywhere. I feel a great deal better now that I've begun the process of "evicting the elephants."
I didn't think I was dysphoric, but I absolutely was, am... I think ignoring it is a coping mechanism, and a side effect of using that is you end up not realizing it's there until you acknowledge it again, it still affects your life negatively, you just put your hands on your ears and start humming loudly. I'm sure there are some who are really not dysphoric though, just worth mentioning that I originally said I wasn't.
I always felt that something was wrong with me, but it was only after beginning HRT and the process of transition that I understood that this feeling was gender dysphoria. It's become clear because the dysphoric feelings stopped, and I can see the beast for what it was. It wasn't me at all.
This is something simple in hindsight, but some years of therapy to deal with outbreaks of depression never brought the underlying issue into view. I hope that there is more understanding and awareness of gender dysphoria now, so those affected can find solutions more easily.
I still look at this in wonder that a problem that seemed so complex and difficult was in the end so simple. I'm grateful for that. I don't know that I ever would have gotten here without the benefit of HRT; getting the hormones right was essential to getting out from under the dysphoria.
Until about 3 years ago I didn't even have the right word... I knew I was different, I knew since about 5 I should have been a girl but the distress only came when I realised that I was actually turning into a proper guy at about age 10, I thought fantastic now I will be like all the other guys...about 6 months later I knew that my mind was not going to change like my body had...my first active suicide attempt was not long after....I felt I was doomed to a life of hell. Over the years I found various ways to cope and had a guardian angel on my shoulder looking out for me at times I am sure...but here I finally am later in life and the noise in my head is considerably less than it ever has been and since I started lived fulltime as myself...My Dysphoria has lessened heaps...I still have a couple of things I want to sort out.... but on the whole loving my life.
Liz
I agree ignoring it is a coping mechanism.
I used to think I was not dysphoric because I was never quite suicidal. Alcohol has been my main coping mechanism, and if I felt really bad for whatever reason, I would just drink until I felt better or passed out. Yeah, that can kill me, but it hasn't so far, and was never the goal.
Throwing myself into my work or school was the other big one, and can be a huge distraction.
These are both similar to ignoring it.
For me at least, I am often dysphoric if I am thinking about gender, and not if I am thinking about other things. I'm not sure not thinking about it at all is good, but also spending the whole day thinking about is not good either. I'd say my better days have some amount of balance.
Quote from: November Fox on February 22, 2017, 01:46:07 PM
Wondering what you guys & girls think about this.
I usually have trouble regarding the experiences of people who are not so dysphoric.
I mean, it´s fine. Not having a lot of dysphoria is good, I think. Of course dysphoria isn´t this static phenomenon either; it tends to shift over time, sometimes it´s worse than others.
I don´t know if it´s jealousy (to think that others may be more capable of dealing with their bodies), or the fact that it makes me uncomfortable that they do accept their body more. Their comfort with their body makes me more uncomfortable because on some level it makes me feel as if I should be comfortable with it too.
I know that this isn´t true. I also know that some people feel guilty that they do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminished their "transgender-ness". Which is not true, either.
How do you experience this?
Often I think how blessed I am since I (usually) don't have the various flavors of off the chart dysphoria the newbies to the TG Support group I belong to express during their first meetings. Like as in total broken, in tears, their lives blowing up. etc..
Many times I feel jealous, wishing I knew for sure one way or another which path is best. Here I am some 8 years later still hanging in there. Still holding valuable pieces of my life together. Still having those days when I might break down into tears myself. Many times thinking back to same scared newbies that after a few months to maybe a year going full time.
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 23, 2017, 05:14:43 PM
I've had a number of conversations with folks who both cross-dress and claim to be non-dysphoric. Things get interesting when I ask them about why or how often they cross-dress. The answer is often 'I need to', or 'I feel better when I do', and when talking about how often, it's often driven by a sensation of need or longing. That sounds awfully familiar...
They are not non-dysphoric, in my opinion, although they are of course welcome to their own opinion and may be more comfortable with denial. I suspect that dysphoria comes in a range of intensities, and rather than being non-dysphoric, is just fairly mild with some folks who still land under the transgender umbrella.
Quote from: Tessa James on February 23, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Ever have someone ask you, Whats wrong, why are you feeling so bad? and you are unable to answer with certainty?
I simply didn't know how hard and how well I had been repressing, coping and acting like i should. I invested big time in staying busy and not reflecting on the constant sense that something is so wrong with me. I crossdressed for years and forgot about it. I did not accept myself as trans until I had the time and safety in retirement to work through the dysphoria and determine the real source. Only then did it become gender dysphoria for me.
My career was in anesthesia and I understand pain. Our pain and suffering can be quite real without our being able to accurately locate or diagnose the cause.
I believe that both Michelle_P and Tessa.James have nailed my experience with dysphoria. I was exactly like Michelle postulated I crossdressed because I needed to and when the need arose. And it did make me feel better. I found myself binging on crossdressing doing it every chance I got and frequently in full regalia makeup, jewelry wig etc. I'd do this for days and weeks at a time then put it away until the next time I had to do it. I say had because it was a compulsion for me. Sometimes i could be satisfied with just an article or two of clothing, but usually it hit me in waves. I used to feel guilty about it when I was younger but over time I accepted it as part of me something I needed to do. That however did not lessen the guilt or shame of doing it. It was wrong and perverted! I was a man!, and men don't do such thing of have such feelings. Crossdressing and all it's baggage caused me many problems in my life. Or rather, as I understand it now gender dysphoria did.
Tessa also describes me well. I knew something was wrong with me for a longtime and didn't know what. I wished I was a girl so I could dress as I wanted to dress, so I could have long pretty hair and wear makeup up, so I could feel pretty and be okay with these desires. Cross dressing helped with those feelings. For short periods in time I could be a woman and feel pretty and be myself. I loved it and I hated it. I convinced myself that crossdressing was enough. But if it was why did I feel so bad about indulging in it and why did I still feel like there was something missing?
It wasn't until I was surfing thing on the internet late last year that I came across information the talked about gender dysphoria. The more I read about it the more I felt it fit myself. My browsing the subject also led me to information on HRT and the information of how to obtain it with little to no chance of getting into trouble for obtaining them without a prescription. I intuitively knew this was the right thing for me to do. The rest is history. One thing led to another and I stopped breaking the law in favor of obtaining my HRT under a doctor's care and getting therapy for my heretofore unknown but very real gender dysphoria. I like to think it was mild for me but as Michelle put it I may have just been in denial of the truth.
Hugs,
Laurie
My gender dysphoria (GD) had three components:
1) Testosterone toxicity. A female brain on T is not pleasant.
2) Body dysphoria. A female brain inside a male body is not pleasant.
3) Gender expression. A female brain deprived of feminine expression is (you guessed it) not pleasant.
HRT took care of #1.
FFS, BA, GRS took care of #2.
Living an authentic life took care of #3.
I'm cured! :)
Quote from: Clara Kay on May 06, 2017, 02:47:27 PM
My gender dysphoria (GD) had three components:
1) Testosterone toxicity. A female brain on T is not pleasant.
2) Body dysphoria. A female brain inside a male body is not pleasant.
3) Gender expression. A female brain deprived of feminine expression is (you guessed it) not pleasant.
HRT took care of #1.
FFS, BA, GRS took care of #2.
Living an authentic life took care of #3.
I'm cured! :)
I want to be able to say this so bad!
Yeah i know what you mean to a degree.
Like the Dysphoria for me pre-transition was always overwhelming. I basically couldn't live ANY kind of life at all before transitioning.
Lately i've met a few transgender individuals who are essentially "not too fussed" about transitioning. Which on balance is probably a good thing for them. I mean if they have the strength to simply not let it bother them well then its going to save them a lot of pain, rejection and expense. But i cant help comparing their level of dysphoria to that i went through and well part of me does question how genuine their feelings are.
It's a terrible thought i know, to question someone else's transgender validity but I'd be lying if i said the thought had never crossed my mind while talking to them..
I know logically that trans individuals suffer from varying degrees of dysphoria so it should be no surprise to have finally met some with only mild degrees of dysphoria but i also think its human nature to compare instances of phenomena to past examples of the same phenomena and the only example of gender dysphoria i am intimately familiar with is my own so that i guess will always be the baseline by which the dysphoria of others is judged.
To say that some people are more trans than others is cruisin' for a bruisin', so I'm sticking my neck out here.
The transgender umbrella includes a wide range of individuals who, in one way or another, are gender nonconforming vis-a-vis their birth assigned gender. The most recent study by the Williams Institute put the number of adults who self-identify as 'transgender' at 1.4 million, but we get no insight into what being transgender means to these people.
But another study by Benjamin Harris of the U.S. Census Bureau analyzed 2010 Census data against the US Social Security Administration database and found that only about 90,000 individuals have transitioned as far as changing their gender code and/or gendered name, important steps for transsexual men and women who sooner or later transition. Granted not all transsexual men and women change their official government documentation, but even doubling that number would indicate that a minority of trans-identifying people transition to live as the opposite sex.
That tells me that the vast majority of transgender individuals are not experiencing gender dysphoria at a level that leads to full gender transition. Why would anyone transition if there was another less debilitating, disruptive, stigmatizing, and difficult option? I do believe that as transgender people become more accepted within society, when the costs to transition, both personal and financial, lessen, more and more will chose to take the jump. But, to assume that all transgender people are cut from the same cloth, so to speak, as regards the source and strength of their transgender identity, doesn't make sense in my experience.
Does that mean that some transgender people are more trans than others based on their level of GD? Sounds like a case of comparing apples to oranges because both are labelled fruit.
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 17, 2017, 02:31:06 PM
That's exactly how I feel. I'm "ok" with being a guy but not happy about it. And despite having a fairly successful love life and career, I'm still very apathetic and bored at everything. Thinking about being a woman is what brings me joy and takes me out of my reality to a happy place. Right now it feels like I am living, and always have lived, at a 40 or 50% when I could be living at a 100% or 120% but I know that staying like this it'll never happen.
Charlie Nicki, you have neatly expressed exactly my situation as well for the last 25 years!
Quote from: Clara Kay on May 19, 2017, 08:17:05 PM
To say that some people are more trans than others is cruisin' for a bruisin', so I'm sticking my neck out here.
The transgender umbrella includes a wide range of individuals who, in one way or another, are gender nonconforming vis-a-vis their birth assigned gender. The most recent study by the Williams Institute put the number of adults who self-identify as 'transgender' at 1.4 million, but we get no insight into what being transgender means to these people.
But another study by Benjamin Harris of the U.S. Census Bureau analyzed 2010 Census data against the US Social Security Administration database and found that only about 90,000 individuals have transitioned as far as changing their gender code and/or gendered name, important steps for transsexual men and women who sooner or later transition. Granted not all transsexual men and women change their official government documentation, but even doubling that number would indicate that a minority of trans-identifying people transition to live as the opposite sex.
That tells me that the vast majority of transgender individuals are not experiencing gender dysphoria at a level that leads to full gender transition. Why would anyone transition if there was another less debilitating, disruptive, stigmatizing, and difficult option? I do believe that as transgender people become more accepted within society, when the costs to transition, both personal and financial, lessen, more and more will chose to take the jump. But, to assume that all transgender people are cut from the same cloth, so to speak, as regards the source and strength of their transgender identity, doesn't make sense in my experience.
Does that mean that some transgender people are more trans than others based on their level of GD? Sounds like a case of comparing apples to oranges because both are labelled fruit.
Right on, sister!
I had really bad dysphoria. The 2 main things for me were my chest and face. I had a really feminine and pretty face. Didn't matter how hard I tried to look masculine. I had a buzz cut for a while and people still would tell me how pretty I was. The worst was when dudes would tell me I was hot. It was too much and I couldn't deal. After starting T I really bulked up. Then I got top surgery and FMS. (Any dudes in Florida needing a good surgeon check out Dr. Sassani. He does excellent work. ) I still have dysphoria but nothing like I used to.
Quote from: Transdude on May 20, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
I had really bad dysphoria. The 2 main things for me were my chest and face. I had a really feminine and pretty face. Didn't matter how hard I tried to look masculine. I had a buzz cut for a while and people still would tell me how pretty I was. The worst was when dudes would tell me I was hot. It was too much and I couldn't deal. After starting T I really bulked up. Then I got top surgery and FMS. (Any dudes in Florida needing a good surgeon check out Dr. Sassani. He does excellent work. ) I still have dysphoria but nothing like I used to.
The experience of gender dysphoria is driven home to me whenever I read a post like yours, Transdude. For you to have so disliked something that I so wanted to have, and vice versa speaks to the power of gender identity like nothing else can.
Yeah, its really sad we can't swap bodies with each other. I would trade places with a MtF any day. The one thing I want most I can't ever have. A fully functional biological penis. And my gf can't ever have a child. Something she'd love to be able to do. The universe has a messed up sense of humor.
I said it before, but trying to question anybodys validity as transgender is a big grey area where you're pushing people away, if you truly think someone isnt transgender you should explain to them how you understand transgender people are and educate them on what it means to be transgender, and let them decide for themselves in the end how they experience it and whether or not they accurately feel they fall under the transgender umbrella in some way.
I posted a response awhile back offsite to someone who said being transgender is not physical, many people can be transgender, many different genders exist (Which I disagree with and explained my reasoning as politely as possible, being a bit of a touchy subject):
"Gender is the sex which a person experiences which may be different from their physical self assigned at birth. (It is not an emotion, a badge, or an expressive label). This does indeed have to do with physical abnormalities in growth and development whether it's neurological, chromosomal, or physical (secondary sex traits or primary sex traits). When it comes to human identification of self or others, the signs and tells we have are based on distinct traits that are typical for the majority of species of that sex. This is why when people look at someone theyre subconsciously looking for biological aspects that mark humans of either sex (although some contain traits of both and are ambiguous to pinpoint). Vice versa, a transgender person, who has traits of the other sex which they were not born with, typically seek to transition by completing the process of physically transitioning going as far as the individual may typically need.Gender isn't just an idea based on gender roles or the word "boy" or "girl", if there was no sense of physical dysphoria or social dysphoria (Again, not based on gender roles but based on internal identity traits), then it would just be a word and carry no meaning
Regarding "third gender" which is a canonical term in India and existing in various forms in other countries, it isn't literally a third (or fourth or fifth) gender, but a catch-all term for gender variant people, as in people who haved mixed traits that dont fall under typical physical traits of a sex. Intersex people are part of an "other" category, they are the gray area between male and female. There are various combinations of traits which make up intersexuality or a person's gender experience, each combination of such isn't a brand new gender. Even among intersex individuals a lot of them still identify as male or female based on the dominant traits they feel.
The thing about the LGBT community and the modern gender movement is it started by opening people up to fight against discrimination, but as the popularity of the community went on the rise it becomes part of a fashion statement to not just be cis/straight. The thing about gender and sex is it is NOT a way to be different and describe yourself, it is just what you are, and isn't any more special than someone who is cisgender heterosexual. Nobody chooses what they are. The bandwagon effect causes a rise in people to take upon labels and expressions which may or may not apply to themselves for the sake of being open and descriptive of who they are and fitting into a community.
As an example, For most transgender people, being transgender is not a source of pride or happiness. It's a source of pain. A source of pain that stems from the discrimination, the hate (from self and others), the dysphoria (the crushing physical and social dysphoria of being confused and sad in a body and neurological role that doesnt make sense), the overwhelming despair that there are aspects of yourself that you cannot be 100% male or 100% female. Being transgender is NOT happy. It is NOT proud. So where does the pride come from with these people? It comes from people who learn to accept the fate they were given, it comes from those who have the strength of character to push on and control what they can in life, and it comes from those who learn that they can be happy in a world where it is confusing to be born in a state of disparity. The "neat little boxes" you're referring to aren't random and escalating labels for people to invent to BE different for the sake of different; they are trans* people, agender people, and genderfluid people that are all part of a complex combination of what is based on physical traits (always, always, always physical in some sense), in the way that modern people are struggling to understand a minority that is and always has existed breaking out of the boxes people place on us means breaking out of the little known fact that males and females and all things in between do not come in all the same form and we are allowed to be different and embrace what makes us different from the majority rather than live in shame.
I know I'm sounding very inflammatory and argumentative about people's gender expressions so where am I going at this point? I'm not necessarily meaning to put down others for gender expression, and I'm not saying who out there is the "true" transgender person. What I'm saying is a lot of people who are openly accepting are suffering from misinformation based on a rapidly expanding base. This misinformation causes a lot of dissaray in terminology and understanding of what sex and gender is based on actual facts, not just emotional states and reasoning. My main idea I think is there needs to be that information for young people out there. Many young people are struggling to understand themselves, whether its gender roles or dysphoria or loneliness or lack of confidence. In the end, I'm not one that can tell anyone who or what they are, that's a decision that they should be 100% honest to themselves to discover.
I dont know how many people are going to read this entire thing and agree with me, or read this entire thing and go "Oh! I didnt know that! I understand now!" or "I totally disagree and this is a very negative view that I believe is wrong of this person", etc."
I read your re-post, Wolfnight, and I agree that one cannot separate gender identity from one's physical sex. To my way of thinking gender identity is assigned to you by others. It began at my birth and continued until I made up my mind that enough was enough, and I physically changed to resemble the opposite sex. Today, strangers assign to me the gender of female, and interact with me on that basis. My gender identity is female not only in my own mind, but it the minds of others who are not aware of my medical history.
Until now, being assigned male didn't allow me to express my personality authentically. My body betrayed me in every social circumstance, and I came to hate it for doing so. It made me frustrated, angry, jealous, depressed, lacking confidence, anxious, and a hundred things that made my life the pits.
But there was something else that ran deeper, and I think it is fundamental to what being sex-gender incongruent is all about. Notice that I avoided saying what being 'transgender' is all about because being transgender is so broadly defined my point would be lost. There is a truly biological basis for sex-gender incongruence, and although it has not been proven 100%, all the scientific evidence points to it as the underlying cause. If you're not familiar with this organizational-activational hypothesis, you can read about it here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational-Activational_Hypothesis).
When I changed my body's sex hormone balance from testosterone to estrogen dominance, I experienced a huge improvement in mental well being inside of a month. This change had nothing to do with psychology or social factors. It was purely endocronological. An organizationally female brain needs estrogen to function properly, and my male body was not producing the hormones that my brain needed. Being trapped in a male body is not simply a metaphor for being a transsexual woman.
I'm not saying this explains the source of transgender feelings that others experience. There are plenty of other reasonable explanations for the trans condition, and having it tied to a purely biological mechanism doesn't make me more trans than anyone else. I do believe, however, that those who are born with this condition need medical intervention to resolve this physical anomaly, and to have it done before puberty. Recent studies have shown that when gender dysphoric children receive proper social support and medical care, they are no more likely to experience psychological issues than cisgender children.