I find this forum is making me feel something that I don't, whenever I come visit. I have been abstaining from this community lately. I don't know about my mom. She's probably going to forget if I bring up the topic of being trans in the future. I'm sorry but I'm kind of mumbling my posts today.
I believe I only think about possibility of being transgender when I see something on TV or the web about it anymore. It doesn't come up in my mind otherwise. I think these are likely not legitimate "triggers". I realize, why would I feel legitimately transgender or even maybe on the spectrum at all?
I know I was on this forum for 2 years now and made a lot of posts, but I don't feel quite the same as I did when I first started posting. I still admit that I could border on the spectrum of trans. But I'm having trouble getting my life together as it is now, I don't drive and I haven't worked a "real" job to pay for myself before.
Please let's discuss or ask questions.
Theres a girl on this site you remind me of in a couple of ways. Her name if i recall is Emily.
Anyways, seeing transgender people is a big trigger for some. Its why many trans and gay ''haters'' ''hate'' seeing trans and gays and it sparks a reality they want to brush off or otherwise could brush off. In your case you may be able to bursh it off easier. but the question you need to ask yourself isnt if you feel trans per say, but rather feel like a woman. Unless you are cis anyone can be trans, but a woman born in the wrong body is a special kind of trans. There are many things you can do in the non-binary. Have at er!
I don't "feel" like a woman, can I still be considered non-binary? Actually, asking if I "feel" like a woman is a little difficult to answer right now at the same time.
Do you ever get distracted by the "wrong end" of the clothing store? I know I do, it's like I want to be shopping there, but I know people would look funny if I just sidled into the dress racks and started shuffling...
Has anyone said "gender fluid" yet?
Not all of us want to transition to a new gender permanently.
Quote from: Dani on March 19, 2017, 05:53:01 PM
Has anyone said "gender fluid" yet?
Not all of us want to transition to a new gender permanently.
I think that's where we're going with the questions honestly
Quote from: redhot1 on March 19, 2017, 05:02:42 PM
I don't "feel" like a woman, can I still be considered non-binary? Actually, asking if I "feel" like a woman is a little difficult to answer right now at the same time.
I had my surgery in 1982 and from that time on, I never felt like a woman. What I no longer feel is uncomfortable as a man. A CIS person doesn't have a longing to be the other gender because they are comfortable with the gender they were born as.
Non binary is when you are not comfortable in either gender and it's a compromise of mixing both genders to find the place where you are most comfortable.
As for the site triggering you, think back about what caused you to look for this site in the first place. It had to be something that made you uncomfortable with your birth gender. Most likely that part of you hasn't changed and if it hasn't, you are most likely transgender.
Hiya.
I'd love to be able to say I feel like a woman, but the reality is, I feel like me. What has helped me immensely is working out what I am not (a man) because of how I folk respond when I am obviously not doing what folk expect a man-suit to do. And that male fail, is quite often...
I find talk about gender amongst my cis and LGB friends triggering - I just want to scream that they *just dont understand* like a petulant teen - because the talk is dressed up in such a way that it is clear that they have never, ever, ever had reason to question or doubt their gender.
When I can quiet my dysphoria mentally, using the 3 D's, I find the questioning subsides a fair amount, and I get a glimpse of what it means to be cis - again, highlighting that I am not.
Rounding back, by eliminating what I am not, I have been better able to define what I am, so I will ask.
Do you feel like a man?
Sno
Of course the real question is "what does a being a woman feel like?" I'd hazard a guess that it feels pretty much the same, 99% of it is just how others perceive you, the other 1% seems pretty unpleasant anyway (periods)
So there's not a literal way to feel like a woman, because both men and women feel like humans. Basically, do you want to be able to be feminine without anyone judging you, or showing any signs of being disturbed, and vice versa for masculine, although women can be masculine in our society there are limits there too, people would look twice (4 times or more) at a lady with a duck dynasty beard.
This is not a sure fire test by any means, but if you answer sometimes yes to both questions then bi-gendered or gender fluid is likely, if always yes to both then I'd look into androgenous types that I'm not too familiar with, and then there's obviously the binary answers always no to one of the two and either sometimes or always yes to the other. This makes it sound simple to figure out, but just getting an honest answer to these questions from yourself can be difficult...
I totally get the idea of being triggered by an online community. I've had it before on another forum where everyone just seemed really whiny and overthinking. I already overthink so I didn't need that. I may quit here too. I am a forum addict and I get way too wrapped up sometimes and its totally unhealthy. I reccomend announcing your departure on the forum, then you feel really weird whenever you go back because you know what you said.
Quote from: TomTuttle on March 19, 2017, 09:05:34 PM
I totally get the idea of being triggered by an online community. I've had it before on another forum where everyone just seemed really whiny and overthinking. I already overthink so I didn't need that. I may quit here too. I am a forum addict and I get way too wrapped up sometimes and its totally unhealthy. I reccomend announcing your departure on the forum, then you feel really weird whenever you go back because you know what you said.
Goodby posts are not permitted on this forum and will be removed as soon as they are spotted.
Quote from: Dena on March 19, 2017, 05:57:40 PM
I had my surgery in 1982 and from that time on, I never felt like a woman. What I no longer feel is uncomfortable as a man. A CIS person doesn't have a longing to be the other gender because they are comfortable with the gender they were born as.
Non binary is when you are not comfortable in either gender and it's a compromise of mixing both genders to find the place where you are most comfortable.
As for the site triggering you, think back about what caused you to look for this site in the first place. It had to be something that made you uncomfortable with your birth gender. Most likely that part of you hasn't changed and if it hasn't, you are most likely transgender.
Dena, that's a surprising answer. Though it is documented that some who have had GRS have regrets, I'm surprised to see you state you never felt like a woman.
To me, I don't care about GRS. I feel like a woman, I know I should have been a girl at birth. It's very powerful. It's core to who I am. It makes me smile. I think I would feel the same if I had a GRS or not. What defines me is what I feel and what I know. I know I'm a girl ... everything in my life points to that. And more importantly, everything I do to reaffirm that makes me smile. I love being a girl and I love feeling that I am a girl. I do everything I can to reinforce that. It makes me happy. It's like I found home, or something. I know everyone is different, but, I'm just so excited everyday to be female, and I've been exploring this for many years.
Quote from: Sinclair on March 19, 2017, 10:21:42 PM
Dena, that's a surprising answer. Though it is documented that some who have had GRS have regrets, I'm surprised to see you state you never felt like a woman.
To me, I don't care about GRS. I feel like a woman, I know I should have been a girl at birth. It's very powerful. It's core to who I am. It makes me smile. I think I would feel the same if I had a GRS or not. What defines me is what I feel and what I know. I know I'm a girl ... everything in my life points to that. And more importantly, everything I do to reaffirm that makes me smile. I love being a girl and I love feeling that I am a girl. I do everything I can to reinforce that. It makes me happy. It's like I found home, or something. I know everyone is different, but, I'm just so excited everyday to be female, and I've been exploring this for many years.
I wanted to be a woman and I knew my near constant depression was caused by not being one. RLE reduced the feelings as I primally have social dysphoria but surgery freed me of testosterone and eliminated both of those feeling. I don't wish to return to being male and I am comfortable as I am. It might be the difference between social and body dysphoria but I don't know. I am attempting to learn more about body dysphoria to determine other differences between the two.
Quote from: Sno on March 19, 2017, 06:21:51 PM
I'd love to be able to say I feel like a woman, but the reality is, I feel like me.
What Sno said.
I feel like me. I feel more happy in this world being perceived and socializing as a women though.
What make you happy?
Count me as another M2F who "never felt like a woman." But I know I'm a lot happier living as one. I don't so much feel "female" as feel "me."
FWIW, I never felt like a man, either. It was just how other people labeled me. Being labeled as a man came with a lot of very uncomfortable baggage, though.
The assumption that you have to "feel like a woman" to justify transitioning to female is one of the things that held me back for about a decade, in some sense maybe longer.
Why didn't you "feel like a man"?
I can understand the feeling of forums/online communities being a 'trigger', I guess I kind of try and suppress my feelings and think "ha, like I will ever be able to transition" then I get the urge to snoop around and see all these people transitioning and think "well, these people do it, why can't I?" then the cycle continues.
Quote from: Asche on March 20, 2017, 12:12:06 PM
Count me as another M2F who "never felt like a woman." But I know I'm a lot happier living as one. I don't so much feel "female" as feel "me."
FWIW, I never felt like a man, either. It was just how other people labeled me. Being labeled as a man came with a lot of very uncomfortable baggage, though.
The assumption that you have to "feel like a woman" to justify transitioning to female is one of the things that held me back for about a decade, in some sense maybe longer.
Good stuff, Asche, and Karen. I have no idea what "feeling like a woman" is either, because I spent most of my life as a male. I'm just me, but I am much happier assuming what I call a "female user interface". I just want to interact socially, and be identified as a female. The female social role is very comfortable for me.
The label thing is also a great point. I never felt comfortable being male. I am a transsexual woman. I realize that label puts me on the very margins of society, but I have accrued enough male privilege to escape the worst aspects of discrimination. I just want to be an average middle-aged woman, and I feel that is very much within my grasp.
with kindness,
Terri
I think I knew that I was a girl in early childhood, based on the scant memories I have from that far back. That is, I knew I was a girl until I was told that I wasn't. Mom said I cried when I got my first haircut. I remember trying to line up with the girls on my first day in kindergarten. Playing concert flute from fifth grade until the end of high school. Building a model railroad and historical dioramas (Because I couldn't have dollhouses). And lots of other little things that, taken by themselves meant very little, but weave them together into a cohesive whole, and -- I'm a girl. I couldn't wear pink as a child, but when Don Johnson wore pink on Miami Vice, I spent the entire 1980's wearing pastel colored T shirts and polo shirts.
After I was told I wasn't a girl, I tried to fashion an alternate identity I could live in, but that was all that it was -- a male persona that I created and used to interact with the world. I never thought of myself as a man, because I always felt like I wasn't qualified for the job. But it was a job I had to learn and I had to do.
I gutted it out living as a man until the anxiety and the panic attacks had all but killed me. I couldn't stand it any more, so I went in for therapy and started hormones. I've turned from a sad, cynical, disaffected guy to a girl who smiles every time she sees herself in the mirror.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 20, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
Good stuff, Asche, and Karen. I have no idea what "feeling like a woman" is either, because I spent most of my life as a male. I'm just me, but I am much happier assuming what I call a "female user interface". I just want to interact socially, and be identified as a female. The female social role is very comfortable for me.
The label thing is also a great point. I never felt comfortable being male. I am a transsexual woman. I realize that label puts me on the very margins of society, but I have accrued enough male privilege to escape the worst aspects of discrimination. I just want to be an average middle-aged woman, and I feel that is very much within my grasp.
with kindness,
Terri
What does any of that even mean? I'm disappointed that some here feel that my feelings are invalid. I do feel like a woman, that is very important to me, and I'm sorry if u can't understand that. You are taking about political labels and such. Screw that.
If you don't feel like a woman, why in the hell would you want to pretend to be one? If you discount what feeling like a woman is, you have lost me completely. I don't want to pretend to be a woman. I don't want to be comfortable appearing as a woman. Or, play a woman for political, social, or fetish reasons. It's 2017 ... it's confirmed that some are born with equal, there about, genetic material to be either sex. That would be me. I have both female and male traits. I prefer the female traits. Really, I have to explain this here? WTF ...
Quote from: Sinclair on March 20, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
What does any of that even mean? I'm disappointed that some here feel that my feelings are invalid. I do feel like a woman, that is very important to me, and I'm sorry if u can't understand that. You are taking about political labels and such. Screw that.
If you don't feel like a woman, why in the hell would you want to pretend to be one? If you discount what feeling like a woman is, you have lost me completely. I don't want to pretend to be a woman. I don't want to be comfortable appearing as a woman. Or, play a woman for political, social, or fetish reasons. It's 2017 ... it's confirmed that some are born with equal, there about, genetic material to be either sex. That would be me. I have both female and male traits. I prefer the female traits. Really, I have to explain this here? WTF ...
Hi Sinclair,
I never said or even meant to imply your feelings are invalid. If I gave you that impression, I sincerely apologize. Your life experience is what it is. I think it's wonderful that you have that sense of self. I'm not sure I do. I also have male and female traits, but I tend to think and act in a more typically feminine way, and it suits me very well. I like being treated like a woman.
I can understand you feel like a woman. No, you don't have to explain it. I am not as stupid as you make me out to be. I just don't have that same certainty of being that you do.
As far as "political labels", that was not really my point, although now that you mention it, there is a political and social implication to being transgender. Bathroom bills. Hate crimes. It's part of being transgender.
I was born with a 46-XY karyotype, as far as I know. I don't have a womb, never menstruated, and will never bear children. I didn't have a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship, or go to slumber parties, or participate in the myriad of activities most women participate in. I missed out on years of the socialization cis-women grow up with.
When I was a child, I knew there was something "wrong" with me, because I didn't want to be a boy. I wanted to be a girl, and wished every night I would wake up the next morning magically transformed. I know what I want, and I have gone to great lengths to transition. As I said, I just want the life of an average woman.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 21, 2017, 05:42:09 AM
Hi Sinclair,
I never said or even meant to imply your feelings are invalid. If I gave you that impression, I sincerely apologize. Your life experience is what it is. I think it's wonderful that you have that sense of self. I'm not sure I do. I also have male and female traits, but I tend to think and act in a more typically feminine way, and it suits me very well. I like being treated like a woman.
I can understand you feel like a woman. No, you don't have to explain it. I am not as stupid as you make me out to be. I just don't have that same certainty of being that you do.
As far as "political labels", that was not really my point, although now that you mention it, there is a political and social implication to being transgender. Bathroom bills. Hate crimes. It's part of being transgender.
I was born with a 46-XY karyotype, as far as I know. I don't have a womb, never menstruated, and will never bear children. I didn't have a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship, or go to slumber parties, or participate in the myriad of activities most women participate in. I missed out on years of the socialization cis-women grow up with.
When I was a child, I knew there was something "wrong" with me, because I didn't want to be a boy. I wanted to be a girl, and wished every night I would wake up the next morning magically transformed. I know what I want, and I have gone to great lengths to transition. As I said, I just want the life of an average woman.
With kindness,
Terri
My apologies. I think I over reacted. This stuff is so personal to me that I think I take comments personally sometimes when I should not. Best wishes ... my bad!
I usually get a lot from being on this site. I learn from others fairly frequently, and I hope from time to time I help someone with something I have learned. Maybe it is a weird thing about me, like some kind of PTSD from having lived this so long, but when I hear of someone's shame, or having to hide, or their longing for being their true self, it is more than just someone's story. It is personal to me. That feeling is what drives a sense of trans community in me. After all, I don't desire to live among trans people, I tend to want to blend into general society. So being on here gives me some feeling of community. Not to mention the friends I have made on here are wonderful!
I worry that I get on here in desperation sometimes. I will admit that it is where I go when dysphoria is bad. It helps me cope with it. It has a lot to do with progress in my transition, I think. Nothing in my transition ever happens fast enough. Maybe I fool myself into thinking I am getting further by reading anything I can get my hands on about people who know being trans. Everyone comes here looking for something. It is okay if they don't find it. This site, in and of itself, is no one's solution to their live problems. If you take something from here that makes you feel better or helps in your everyday life then isn't that awesome? I'll take it.
Moni
Quote from: Sinclair on March 20, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
What does any of that even mean?
If you don't feel like a woman, why in the hell would you want to pretend to be one?
Who is pretending? I just feel much better about myself.
QuoteI prefer the female traits. Really, I have to explain this here?
So do I and not to me. I understand completely.
Quote from: Asche on March 20, 2017, 12:12:06 PM
Count me as another M2F who "never felt like a woman." But I know I'm a lot happier living as one. I don't so much feel "female" as feel "me."
FWIW, I never felt like a man, either. It was just how other people labeled me. Being labeled as a man came with a lot of very uncomfortable baggage, though.
The assumption that you have to "feel like a woman" to justify transitioning to female is one of the things that held me back for about a decade, in some sense maybe longer.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 20, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
Good stuff, Asche, and Karen. I have no idea what "feeling like a woman" is either, because I spent most of my life as a male. I'm just me, but I am much happier assuming what I call a "female user interface". I just want to interact socially, and be identified as a female. The female social role is very comfortable for me.
The label thing is also a great point. I never felt comfortable being male. I am a transsexual woman. I realize that label puts me on the very margins of society, but I have accrued enough male privilege to escape the worst aspects of discrimination. I just want to be an average middle-aged woman, and I feel that is very much within my grasp.
with kindness,
Terri
These answers are eye openers for me! I especially like Terri's way of describing it "female user interface". That definitely sounds like me. I wouldn't say I feel like a woman...I've never experienced anything like one so how can I feel like one? But I definitely have an innate desire to live an interact like a woman, for whatever reason. It's what comes natural for me and I've been suppressing it for so long.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 21, 2017, 05:42:09 AM
Hi Sinclair,
I never said or even meant to imply your feelings are invalid. If I gave you that impression, I sincerely apologize. Your life experience is what it is. I think it's wonderful that you have that sense of self. I'm not sure I do. I also have male and female traits, but I tend to think and act in a more typically feminine way, and it suits me very well. I like being treated like a woman.
I can understand you feel like a woman. No, you don't have to explain it. I am not as stupid as you make me out to be. I just don't have that same certainty of being that you do.
As far as "political labels", that was not really my point, although now that you mention it, there is a political and social implication to being transgender. Bathroom bills. Hate crimes. It's part of being transgender.
I was born with a 46-XY karyotype, as far as I know. I don't have a womb, never menstruated, and will never bear children. I didn't have a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship, or go to slumber parties, or participate in the myriad of activities most women participate in. I missed out on years of the socialization cis-women grow up with.
When I was a child, I knew there was something "wrong" with me, because I didn't want to be a boy. I wanted to be a girl, and wished every night I would wake up the next morning magically transformed. I know what I want, and I have gone to great lengths to transition. As I said, I just want the life of an average woman.
With kindness,
Terri
I really enjoy your posts Terri. It really reasonates with me.
Quote from: Sinclair on March 20, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
What does any of that even mean? I'm disappointed that some here feel that my feelings are invalid. I do feel like a woman, that is very important to me, and I'm sorry if u can't understand that. You are taking about political labels and such. Screw that.
If you don't feel like a woman, why in the hell would you want to pretend to be one? If you discount what feeling like a woman is, you have lost me completely. I don't want to pretend to be a woman. I don't want to be comfortable appearing as a woman. Or, play a woman for political, social, or fetish reasons. It's 2017 ... it's confirmed that some are born with equal, there about, genetic material to be either sex. That would be me. I have both female and male traits. I prefer the female traits. Really, I have to explain this here? WTF ...
Why are you complaining? Transwomen like you have been able to feel a lot more legitimate in transitioning than the ones that can't say that truthfully. The media only puts stories of transpeople like you, and that's what cisgender people generally understand (the ones that aren't against trans people.) I envy you, I wish I could feel female and female only. I feel that whatever maleness I have is ultimately a curse. I hate feeling like someone in the middle. I have all this untapped femininity inside of me because I can't ever feel ok with being very feminine because I'm trapped in a gender that is discouraging and at times hostile to anyone in it that is feminine (and I'm not gay.) And I can't enjoy being friends with women (in female style friendships) as well.
Quote from: Katelyn on March 22, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
Why are you complaining? Transwomen like you have been able to feel a lot more legitimate in transitioning than the ones that can't say that truthfully. The media only puts stories of transpeople like you, and that's what cisgender people generally understand (the ones that aren't against trans people.) I envy you, I wish I could feel female and female only. I feel that whatever maleness I have is ultimately a curse. I hate feeling like someone in the middle. I have all this untapped femininity inside of me because I can't ever feel ok with being very feminine because I'm trapped in a gender that is discouraging and at times hostile to anyone in it that is feminine (and I'm not gay.) And I can't enjoy being friends with women (in female style friendships) as well.
Yup. I envy those who KNEW at a young age. I wish I was that insightful then. All I had was a pocket full of dreams to be a girl, but never a ''I KNOW I AM'' moment that I can recall with certainty. I wish I could feel female all the time, but in the conditions that I was to be a ''man'' and grew up in a very masculine enviroment living female while only feeling female 95% of time works, its that 5% of intrusive doubt, shame and guilt that kills. I do find it funny how some of the most judgemental people in regards of transpeople are not so much cisgender people, but at times other transgender people.
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on March 22, 2017, 03:54:36 PM
I really enjoy your posts Terri. It really reasonates with me.
Thank you, Charlie Nicki. <smiles>
Blessings to you,
Terri
The feeling of not wanting to be a man is much stronger in me than the feeling that I am a woman.
I think these are two separate feelings. I feel like I'm in an awkward space between non-binary and MtF sometimes. It's like the type of woman I admire and would want to be--strong, athletic, not super girly, and primarily interested in women is all fine and good if you are born DFAB, but being that as a trans woman is somewhat discouraged.
This forum can be triggering but so can most every site. It's next to impossible to escape gender and much harder with transgender issues so much in the news lately. I hate much more when transgender issues come up randomly in completely unrelated forums and ignorant people post transphobic things. It almost to the point I don't even go to sites that aren't specifically trans-friendly anymore unless I'm in the mood to be able to not care.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 20, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
I'm just me, but I am much happier assuming what I call a "female user interface".
Thank you. I can't get this term out of my head now. It's exactly true. 100%
I am fascinated by this thread. I hope I do not ramble too much...
This discussion leads me to reflect on the individuality of perception. I think it is fair to say that none of us really understands at the internal level, that is, really can say they have shared the experience of being the other person. We may share external experiences, have similar reactions to those experiences, find we have similar or dissimilar likes adn dislikes, etc. But at the core of the question is whether you, I or anyone else on this site will ever truly know what it is to be the other, let alone what is internally feels like to be a genetic woman at the cellular, physiologic and neuropsychological level.
It is something similar to trying to explain in objective perceptual terms, not by analogy, what blue is or what the sound of an A (440 Hz) is or what sweet is. I don't want to delve into the hundreds, no, thousands of years of philosophical writing on the subject of epistemology but suffice it to say that it leads me to a very humble state of mind. I have to respect you and your perception as unique and deserving respect.
I am often prone to think that I "feel female" inside but in the next instant realize that I've never really been physiologically female. How do I know it, then?
I think we do take our cues in large part from the way we are hard wired to interact with one another, integrate socially, begin to realize our preferences and behaviors are more consistent with one gender or the other. This is a substantial part but I have to propose a rather unscientific explanation--something like the the biblical "still quiet voice." Yes, I have this "voice" in a big way. I think most of us do although some are deaf to it. It is not really so unscientific--it is the unconscious, the ego, or maybe as simple as the hardwired circuits that allow our consciousness. I listen to this "voice" regularly during meditation practice. It is an interesting interplay that I can "watch" internally between my highly logical scientific side and this highly intuitive "voice." The best way I can describe it is a debate between these two archetypal mental essences that I can consciously internally mediate during meditation.
The intuitive "voice" knows it is largely feminine but I cannot understand exactly how. The logical side has come to understand this as fact but acceptance without mechanism or proof was difficult. In the broader sense, the conscious "I" has come to accept the intuitive; what and how I feel as axiomatic--accepted as an obvious truth not needing external validation or proof.
I loved Terri's post describing how she will never know the life socialization and life experiences that most women enjoy from childhood through adulthood. Still she is confident of her greatest comfort living as a woman based on her experience doing just that. I admire her for being a great and mindful empiricist; a good scientist, an experimentalist.
When I was an adolescent, I had a difficult time dating initially, something symptomatic of my gender uncertainties. I found myself wondering what it felt like to be the woman in the relationship. I was pretty sure I was experiencing feeling more similar to that women experienced in relationships than what I understood was the typical experience of my male peers. Even at the sexual level, I found intense desire to know how it physically and emotionally felt to be a woman. That was a big insight for me.
So, for me, it boils down to something like the logic of the Turing test for evidence of intelligence. (Paraphrased: it is intelligent if you are convinced it is intelligent.) Commuted to gender: You are the gender you are convinced you are.
Axiomatic.
Steph