I am asking this question because I am trying to find if I am non-binary, or am I actual mtf trans gender. (Here it goes)...........
Here is my story......
Back in Sept 2016 I decided to transition, and started my transition. At the time I was still new to the trans gender world. I'm still new to it but I'm willing to learn more. At the time I knew I wanted to be a women and actually look like a women FFS, Hormones, and possible SRS, hair removal etc. I already did my tracheal shave and I wanted to do more surgery. If money was no issue and people weren't so judgement and if government paper work took shorter time to process, I want to be a female this instant.
At the time I thought I was non binary gender fluid. Because I wanted to keep my male self so people wouldn't judge me. I wanted a androgynous appearance. After I did some soul searching I may not be Gender Fluid. The reason I say that is because I want to go fulltime female. I don't want to be male, Im male is because its how people sees me, but its not truly how I feel. So all this time have I been lying to myself and others so other people will be happier...
So my question is.......
.Has anyone ever experienced the same feeling as I am right now? Do you feel you are actually the opposite gender, but only say non binary to please other people so you don't risk your job or family?
I know everyone's story is different, im just curious if anyone is experiencing what I am experiencing.
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I'm young (18) and non binary has only become a thing to me in the past year or so. I'm beginning to understand it and it strikes me> as: this is the identity for some butch women who felt out of place in either bathroom and never felt comfortable claiming either male or female and for feminine men who were very in touch with their female side and struggled with the unacceptability of men cross-dressing in public without completely renouncing any semblance of maleness (of course for some of these people that's just an issue of feeling censored in expression, but some feel completely out of the binary because they simply cannot shed this gender confusion deep inside). I mainly understand it when it comes from the mouth of a calm old butch rather than a young person tbh, then I feel slightly connected to it.
Moderator Edit: We encourage all to learn about all the different stops along the gender spectrum. I think you may get some posts with different opinions. As long as we all realize which are our opinions versus provable or accepted fact.
I also removed a quoted post that the member had removed
Hi Mikka, I agree that only you can answer that question. For me, I know that nothing is black and white. In the ideal world, I would act and dress like a woman. But my life is complicated by having a wife that didnt do well with me wearing panties every day. I would probably lose all my friends. Are all these relationships important to me? Yes. Would I be in a depression if I was all alone? Yes. Would I have trouble and have anxiety with society judging me? Yes. So I have to chose. I would love to put on lace panties everyday, but when it comes down to it, they are just clothes that society has taught us are feminine. It is a complicated issue. I also think there is too much emphasis on labels. Whether I call myself nonbinary, gender fluid or gender queer doesn't change the way I feel about myself. Hope that helps
Hi Mikka,
I imagine that each of us does some sort of calculus in our heads as we investigate/explore the gender landscape, "trying on" various labels to find one that fits best. Those labels change over time, as do our perceptions of consequences, which also may change, whether those perceptions are accurate or not. So I imagine that many of us, transplanted into a different time and place, might make different choices.
Is your choice right or wrong? Good heavens, how many opinions can you count? There is only one opinion that really matters, and that is yours. When I went through this assessment myself, it never occurred to me that "non-binary" or "gender-fluid" would be a "safer" choice. But as some of my peers have stated, I didn't grow up with "non-binary" in my vocabulary, so I'm certain I don't see it in the same way that many of the young people today do.
It's also good to keep in mind that we have adopted a specific language to describe where we reside along continua in several dimensions. That is, how you feel might sit inside the limits of what you consider "non-binary" while might not in someone else's gender map. It's good to question, but remember that it's your opinion that counts and you're not wrong just because someone may disagree with you. Until we perfect methods of seeing what's in your mind (god help us), we have to rely upon your report. Best wishes in your decision process and in your transition.
Erin
As an older, transitioning, transgender woman, I also am quite confused about the non-binary paradigm. It's disturbing in it's newness as well as there is a sense that it it so broadly defined that it can encompass just about anyone and everybody. Maybe it's because I spent so many years living in hiding from an openly hostile, transphobic culture and always secretly wishing to be a woman. I guess I relate it to the eastern taoist concept of the yin and yang symbol. According to this ancient idea/symbol everyone has both male and female elements within them and the two are entwined around each other in an endless circle and inseparable. Also, buddhism teaches us about the nonduality nature of existence, i.e. all buddhas of the past, present and future awaking to the reality of the perfection of wisdom get that "form is emptiness, and the very emptiness is form; emptiness does not differ from form, nor does form differ from emptiness; whatever is form, that is emptiness; whatever is emptiness, that is form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness."
Also, I know a post op women who identifies as non-binary, as well as pre op men and women who identify as binary and pretty much everything in between.
In the end, it's all grafting words and ideas onto lived reality. My advice? Just do what y'know.
Intresting Jane. I know non-binary has been around for a very long time, but it is now a very new to most as it has just gained traction. There are people out there, and even some on this form who think non-binary is for attention but not only do I disagree but I think they are ignorant. Non-Binary can be almost anything you want it to be and look like. I think that if one can harness both there male and female elements to their fullest extent good on them! I did a non-binary thing but have been living as a woman again for a host of reasons.
I see why many older people (anyone born before 1980) could be confused. Fact is until very recently life has been a super binary thing in society. So this whole notion of leaving a binary and becoming a mix, in the middle or whatever is kinda out of the norms. I too kinda thought non-binary was a bit odd at one point of my life, but I also had a lot of confusion in my life at the time. Not too mention I think a lot of AMAB non-binarys can be pretty cute hehehe ;)
But yes, when one lives their whole life in hiding of their trans-feelings I can understand how seeing an NB may cause a lot of mixed feelings. But I am happy that society is getting out of the ''masculine man and feminine woman'' only
outlook and is slowly embracing all differences from the old binary system to mix of all. Its all up to the person!
Hugs-Ashley
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on March 24, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Not too mention I think a lot of AMAB non-binarys can be pretty cute hehehe ;)
I hear that. I may be old, but I ain't dead. ;D It's interesting that if one can get out of the binary paradigm of madison avenue/hollywood created norms of male and female beauty and just look at the person one begins to see that lots of people whether they fully pass as male or female are really quite beautiful. Just as people.
Quote from: Jane Emily on March 24, 2017, 09:48:04 AM
I hear that. I may be old, but I ain't dead. ;D It's interesting that if one can get out of the binary paradigm of madison avenue/hollywood created norms of male and female beauty and just look at the person one begins to see that lots of people whether they fully pass as male or female are really quite beautiful. Just as people.
Totally agreed. I think thats one thing that is confusing to a lot of people. They assume if you want to be female you must striclty be feminine. Well, I am in the process of transition and am dying to get GRS at some point hopefully before 2020.. That still doesnt mean I cant fish, camp, do mixed martial arts either :D!! But I enjoy my traditional feminine things like make up, shopping and coffee time with the girls. I did the non-binary thing too, and in honesty it wasnt bad but I knew that I would rather be female. Its all in the mind :)!
But yes, some AMAB non-binarys are drop dead gorgious. May also be because I do not find masculinity attractive or appealing in any way shape or form lol
Mikka,
We have a lot of members who are at a lot of points along the spectrum. I think many people choose something to make life easier, even if it is not what they want. I know I am transitioning and started not knowing how far I would go. I kind of want to stay at this point to make it all easier(1 year into HRT, presenting in public in small amounts, not out at work). Although I do not use the phrase non binary, that is what it is and as my dress has become more androgynous I have become somewhat fluid in my day to day life. The difference is I am choosing to act these ways. There are other members who have stayed at that spot for many of these practical reasons. Others have de-transitioned to please others. Interestingly enough, Kate Bornstein(author of Gender Outlaw about Men, Women and the Rest of US) is almost the opposite of what you ask. Transitioned to female. She now feels that she is neither male nor female. Yet prefers female pronouns to ..."to keep it easier".
However, if am truly honest; my wife asked if I could hold off coming out till my youngest child is in college. Then we could move and "start life over". It is supposedly easier for my kids, my wife and me. I have felt a build up of anxiety, for the last month or so. It feels like bursting and I want to transition more and faster. I think she recognizes it and would not stop me yet I am still dragging my feet. Change is hard and scary.
So, long story short(too late), I feel you are not alone.
:police: I also know there is some quality of non binary and gender fluid that tends to confuse some. Binary is so much easier to wrap their heads around. I think discussing what we think it is versus what many feel is the accepted definition is good. However, let's just all be aware that these are our feelings. I would encourage any who do not fully grasp it to visit our wiki area where we have many words defined. Here is a link to our Trans 101 post:
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Trans_101
I have been over thinking a lot trying to figure out who I am to the point of depression. I know its not healthy to do that. I stressed my self with trying to find a legal name for myself, trying on make up, and then I was worried what if I had to stop hormones (incase of health issues will I still be a trans gender.) I love who I am now. I really don't want to go back to the male me. But thank you for everyone's comments.
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Everything you said I have experienced as well. I'm not saying we are the same. However, as I mentioned, you are not alone. It's okay to overthink. Just try not to get stuck there. Every so often maybe you could step outside yourself and look at yourself. You maybe can find ways you are thankful(you kind of did) and what are truly problems versus fears.
I hope you have a good week end.
With warmth,
Joanna
I guess if being gender fluid is what makes me happy then why not just accept myself as gender fluid, will probably just cause more stress on myself, and my mental health.
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I can still wear male cloths, but it doesn't mean I have to identify myself as a male that day, moment
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Also what I HATE the most, sorry if I offend anyone who is on Youtube. I hate it when I watch youtube videos on "what its like to be non binary and gender fluid." I hate that (not all but some.) Go to the extreme just to prove they are non-binary. It almost feels like they are having a spilt personality. Long Story Short.
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I don't know if being transsex is completely incompatible with being non-binary. Maybe I'm not using both words in their exact meaning, but I'll try to explain what I mean (sorry if I have some English errors, I'm not used to explaining this in English).
I'm still defining who I am, as I have written in some posts, and a bit lost. First of all, I separate the concepts of sex and gender, I see sex as a form of body expression (you have the characteristics of one of the sexes, or sth in the middle; and it is not something really fixed, you can change it in the "physical" part of transition, for example) and gender as a social construct and a way of being (adapting to the roles and behaviours of one of the numerous genders, and most important, what you feel about it -you feel like a woman, like a man, like sth else?-). Well, then sex for me is a physical concept while gender is more a social-mental one.
I also have a kind of struggle trying to know if I'm MtF or(and?) non-binary, and I don't really know yet (I consider that some of the best ways is experimenting with your gender identity if you can find a safe place or a support group). What you ask is something you only can answer, but, if it helps, this is how I feel: starting from the difference between sex and gender as I have understood it, in the view of gender I don't really have a special definition, in my inside I feel like if I was agender, I do not identify with the roles assigned to any gender and I think that imposing one on me would be somewhat limiting in what I can or can't be personally in the future (although I have an especial rejection of male roles and identity). I feel freer if in my interior there's no gender tag.
Nonetheless, talking about my body expression, since I started to question my gender and my body I've never liked being read as a male exteriorly, always hated the roles, the pronouns, the way of life, the social meaning of being a man... imposed on me because of that and looking at the mirror and seeing that. Even though (I think) I feel agender in the inside, I have a real desire of being read as a woman in society, I do want to have a female body at the same time I do not identify with any gender interiorly, and this is something that really strikes me.
For years I've seen this as a contradiction, and I'm still in the struggle of solving that. However, I'm starting to believe that maybe those are not actual contradictory ideas, maybe they can be separated? Maybe one is only about your feels and mind and the other is about your "gender performance", as some genderqueer theories propose?
You can make yourself this two questions: "how do I feel inside, who am I?" and "how do I want to be read in society?". To my mind, the answers don't need to match, you're the only entitled to answer this for you and every answer concerning sex and gender is as legitimate as any other.
This is what is working with me, and I really hope it can help you.
Hugs,
Q.
How do I truly feel?
Transgender/Transfeminine/Non-Binary/Gender Fluid/androgynous and in the process of transitioning to become more female.
That's how I feel. Would i be ok living my life as a women all the time.... Well im not sure, might be a bit too much stress on me. Am I happy if I had a androgynous look? Maybe. I want to be able to pass as a female. That's my main goal. That's what I have always stuck to. I want to say... I am highly likely NB.
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So, maybe you feel NB and also want to be read as a woman, having a female body? As I said, I think is legitimate wanting to be read in some way but still being NB, the first is about your body, the second about how you behave, feel...
I know this is not easy, I'm with the same kind of contradiction too. Also looking into this themes have helped me a lot, maybe reading books or going to conferences, or simply staying in bed, looking inside my mind.
Explore yourself open to all possibilities and you will figure it out sooner or later, regarding this, no option is wrong.
Q.
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Everything you said I have experienced as well. I'm not saying we are the same. However, as I mentioned, you are not alone. It's okay to overthink. Just try not to get stuck there. Every so often maybe you could step outside yourself and look at yourself. You maybe can find ways you are thankful(you kind of did) and what are truly problems versus fears.
I hope you have a good week end.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: theqnoumenon on March 24, 2017, 06:58:19 PM
You can make yourself this two questions: "how do I feel inside, who am I?" and "how do I want to be read in society?". To my mind, the answers don't need to match, you're the only entitled to answer this for you and every answer concerning sex and gender is as legitimate as any other.
This is what is working with me, and I really hope it can help you.
Hugs,
Q.
Yes, Thank You theqnoumenon. I looked up the term transgender and transsexual. 2 totally different things. Because sometimes I feel I want to be female and do more with my body, but some days I don't "act" female BUT I still love my new body. The first day I came out, yeah I was a bit more girly, but I still acted like me, I didn't feel I needed to change my voice. Hmmmm... 1+ for you. Thanks.
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My feelings about gender have always been essentially Binary. A reflection of the Pre-Jurasaic era this old dinosaur grew up in. A world where Gay was shunned and anything trans forget it. Still in the late 70's I had my first transition "experiment". An utter fail for a 6ft tall, big everything, deep voiced person in a world filled with 5'5" women and barely 5'10" men. Then add in an unhealthy dose of internalized transphobia. I never was able to shake the "Some Guy in a Dress" feeling. The people around me also noticed the same. Still, a few years later I tried again after a failed marriage I hoped that would 'fix" me.
After that second attempt I settled on being a CD++. I had a dream I tried to make true twice and failed. My only hope in life was to be some sort of a "Normal"(ish) guy. I still wanted to be a woman, simply resigned to the fact it cannot and will never be. Non-Binary and Gender Fluid weren't even heard of back then. Perhaps only in practice for those brave enough to mostly accept being labeled of or thought of Gay or drag queen wannabe's. For the rest of us, those who had a dream of being a woman and couldn't, those who like me "Settled" on being and living "male", hiding our "Shame" filled aspect from the world and especially loved ones; What were we?
Eight years ago I took on the Trans-Beast for real. Once again Joanne ventured out into the sunlight, into the real world as her genuine self this time feeling the sheer joy of it after a ton of personal growth and healing. Soon I was living part-time as female as I had no overwhelming need to be full-time that outweighed the risks to other aspects of my life.... most days. A few years ago life circumstances changed again and part-time living was out of the question. A major strain but again... balancing of conflicting needs and wants.
Twice I was asked by the two different therapists I have seen, "What would be different if Joanne showed up to work tomorrow?". My immediate reflexive response was "Nothing, except being and feeling perhaps 100% genuine vs the 80% or so I feel now." That was followed up with after they got over the shock of seeing this 6ft tall bald guy looking damn good for an old lady.
The Non-Binary label for me was adopted as a tool or a means to avoid or minimize the internal conflicts and angst of wanting to be binary but.... The reality on the ground, today, prevents me from being the binary of my genuine self. I needed to stop thinking in terms of "Binary". For the most part the person I am today is vastly different then the one I was 8 years ago. Before I was a lifeless, soulless Thing that only reason to exist was doing what others expected, including presentation. Today I have Joy while I am still learning who I really am, albeit at a far slower pace then when I was living part-time as female. My therapist said I shouldn't label myself. But labeling myself as a woman while living and presenting as male creates a ton more inner conflicts then NB, which is a far better fit.
(Warning: I'm feeling silly today....)
My own point of view (and it must be the One True Point Of View, because I have it :) :) ) is that labels aren't all that important.
The important thing is to figure out how to be YOU. The labels are only important to the extent they help you do that. I mean, if deciding you really have the soul of a giraffe helps you become who you really are, go for it! (Although, if you do, I'd advise taking great care when browsing leaves that are 6 meters off the ground :) :) )
The thing is, the definitions of trans terms are in a state of flux, anyway, so whatever one person or website says is going to be contradicted by the next. And they're a little vague, too. And people disagree, too. I refer to myself as "Non-binary MtF", which some people insist (rather loudly) is a contradiction in terms. I also am doing the full medical MtF transition, yet I don't "identify as female" (whatever that means), and people say that is impossible, too. But I'm too busy being me (or trying to) to waste my time on such disagreements. (Besides, my Mom always said I was "impossible." Can't prove my Mom wrong now, can I? :) )
And we're in a state of flux, too. (And not just trans people, either.) Who you are (or think you are) today isn't who you'll be (or will think you are) a few years from now. If you're anything like me, in five years, you'll look back at what you wrote and thought and just smile at how naïve you were.
Quote from: Asche on March 25, 2017, 08:59:13 AM
And we're in a state of flux, too. (And not just trans people, either.) Who you are (or think you are) today isn't who you'll be (or will think you are) a few years from now. If you're anything like me, in five years, you'll look back at what you wrote and thought and just smile at how naïve you were.
That is the thing that scares me. What if in a few years I regret my MTF transition.
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Quote from: Asche on March 25, 2017, 08:59:13 AM
My own point of view (and it must be the One True Point Of View, because I have it :) :) ) is that labels aren't all that important.
The important thing is to figure out how to be YOU. The labels are only important to the extent they help you do that. I mean, if deciding you really have the soul of a giraffe helps you become who you really are, go for it! (Although, if you do, I'd advise taking great care when browsing leaves that are 6 meters off the ground :) :) )
THAT'S IT, that is the sense I find in using labels to describe yourself, and everything you think about you or want to be is valid and legitimate.
Nonetheless, I also consider that labels are useful in order to be identified in society. At the present time, if you don't have a label to identify your group you don't exist, and this can be one of the major causes of discrimination, but we can debate this in another topic.
Quote from: Mikka55 on March 25, 2017, 10:03:34 AM
That is the thing that scares me. What if in a few years I regret my MTF transition.
Well, the answer to that question is impossible, but what if you reverse it? If there's no transition, what if in a few years you regret not transitioning? If you are happy with your new body, as said before, go for it!
Mikka, I'm in a bit in a similar situation. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive.
I identified as genderfluid for about 3 years, and while that label does still fit me in some ways, more and more, I think I do want to fully transition eventually. I don't think I'll ever have a totally binary viewpoint on gender again, and why would I want to? It was pretty limiting, and I don't think I'd like limiting myself to the norms and expectations of being a woman any more than I liked limiting myself to the norms and expectations of being a guy.
We do live in a binary world though, and sometimes binary choices have to be made. As for possible regrets, that scares me too, though quite a bit less so now than when I first admitted to myself that I am definitely not a cis-gender guy. I already tried living as a guy for over three decades, and these thoughts of wanting to live as a woman just didn't go away. I currently regret wasting so much time trying to be a guy. I don't regret living as genderfluid, though I am pushing myself into an awkward non-passing trans woman presentation quite often now.
Love this thread, and it's a question I've asked myself many times, especially since losing my partner and soulmate last summer.
I identify as non-binary (transfeminine). I didn't even know these terms existed until a couple of years ago - but I always knew I wasn't just a ->-bleeped-<- - but not quite a transsexual either. I always felt somwhere in between the two.
Since then, I've pushed my boundaries more and more, having my eyebrows plucked regularly, having my nails done, having laser on my face and being referred to my local gender clinic - I hope to start HRT before this year's out. Long process on the NHS.
I've asked myself the same question as you: am I really transsexual? But I honestly don't think I am. I like my male side - football, beer, etc - though love my female side far more. In an ideal world where no-one judged people, would I present as female every day? Yeah, possibly.
But the fact is that it's not an ideal world, and I care very much what other people think of me. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it.
So that's why I plan to take estrogen, and yet still present as male - or at least androgynous. I'll present as a girl sometimes, possibly with certain friends. But I'd never go to the football in a skirt or I'd be laughed out of the stadium by people who know me there.
Labels are funny things. I wrote on my blog a while back about sexuality for non-binary people. I like women - whether trans or cis. But if I'm non-binary, how can I say I'm straight? To be straight means you fancy a member of the opposite sex. But being non-binary means there is no opposite sex for me. Gay, bi, poly, etc - none of the labels fit. Good job I don't care about labels.
I'm just me. If the estrogen changes how I think and I evolve into being transsexual, that's one bridge I'll cross when I come to it. I don't think it will, though, as my levels of gender dysphoria are far lower than many trans people.
Anyway, that's just my two penneth. Thanks for reading!
Andie xxx
Transition is not necessarily points moving across a spectrum line.
It can be the whole spectrum at once.
Fear can interfere with your self perception of gender, but deep down in your core you know who you are.
I transitioned fully to mtf trans, in a binary transition, no ops. Will I change the bottom? who knows.
But I am nonbinary, and an androgyne. I also live as a woman. It depends on the social situation, my mood, different things, but what does not change is me, who I am. And I am not a woman, nor am I a man. So I am nonbinary.
I am also mtf trans by definition. I have a complete transition. And I won't wear mens underthings, no way. Its not who I am physically, phsically I am mtf trans, sexually I am mtf trans.
But my core is me, and that is not going to fit any gender stereotype or label.
Regrets? About transition- my 4 years of high dose estrogen shots? NO. None. I know I need this body, this me, this look in the mirror.
But the question to ask is, what would you regret? What specifically are you worried about regretting?
I already have my children, there is that part of things. And living trans is a big deal, its not easy. I live it. I am full time sh'e. But sh'e has many presentations.
There is a concern about a pendulum swing, to move away from the female target, recenter in the middle. So long as you don't deny a part of who you are, repress it, it is ok. But when you suppress part of your gender identity, things have a way of popping up on you, truth eventually will always find its way out.
There are many nonbinary mtf transfolks out there. They may not admit it, not really, but they know well they are "more than women". And there are many binary transfolks out there too, and they are women through and through.
There are a thousand ways to be trans. Live your truth, who you are, deep down inside, eyes wide open, heart wide open, feeling the feelings and being who you really are. Gender for me is simultaneious and a symphony. Not a point on the line. Its the entire line, formed into a circle, a sphere. Formed into the diamond heart of trans.
Quote from: Asche on March 25, 2017, 08:59:13 AM
The thing is, the definitions of trans terms are in a state of flux, anyway, so whatever one person or website says is going to be contradicted by the next. And they're a little vague, too. And people disagree, too. I refer to myself as "Non-binary MtF", which some people insist (rather loudly) is a contradiction in terms. I also am doing the full medical MtF transition, yet I don't "identify as female" (whatever that means), and people say that is impossible, too.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."
-Emerson :)
Quote from: Satinjoy on March 26, 2017, 10:20:42 PM
Transition is not necessarily points moving across a spectrum line.
It can be the whole spectrum at once.
Fear can interfere with your self perception of gender, but deep down in your core you know who you are.
I transitioned fully to mtf trans, in a binary transition, no ops. Will I change the bottom? who knows.
But I am nonbinary, and an androgyne. I also live as a woman. It depends on the social situation, my mood, different things, but what does not change is me, who I am. And I am not a woman, nor am I a man. So I am nonbinary.
I am also mtf trans by definition. I have a complete transition. And I won't wear mens underthings, no way. Its not who I am physically, phsically I am mtf trans, sexually I am mtf trans.
But my core is me, and that is not going to fit any gender stereotype or label.
Regrets? About transition- my 4 years of high dose estrogen shots? NO. None. I know I need this body, this me, this look in the mirror.
But the question to ask is, what would you regret? What specifically are you worried about regretting?
I already have my children, there is that part of things. And living trans is a big deal, its not easy. I live it. I am full time sh'e. But sh'e has many presentations.
There is a concern about a pendulum swing, to move away from the female target, recenter in the middle. So long as you don't deny a part of who you are, repress it, it is ok. But when you suppress part of your gender identity, things have a way of popping up on you, truth eventually will always find its way out.
There are many nonbinary mtf transfolks out there. They may not admit it, not really, but they know well they are "more than women". And there are many binary transfolks out there too, and they are women through and through.
There are a thousand ways to be trans. Live your truth, who you are, deep down inside, eyes wide open, heart wide open, feeling the feelings and being who you really are. Gender for me is simultaneious and a symphony. Not a point on the line. Its the entire line, formed into a circle, a sphere. Formed into the diamond heart of trans.
Beautiful post, Satin. xxx
Quote from: Dayta on March 24, 2017, 09:11:53 AM
But as some of my peers have stated, I didn't grow up with "non-binary" in my vocabulary, so I'm certain I don't see it in the same way that many of the young people today do.
It's interesting that we had the same experience but with opposite reactions. I've been dysphoric over my gender since I was a teen in the mid 1980s, and without being aware of non-binary options I felt "trans" didn't fit and rejected the possibility. I wanted a penis, but I didn't want to give up being a girl. I wanted a penis *and* a vagina (and no one ever mentioned it was possible). I was dysphoric over my all-girl physical presentation but I love being a girl. I heard about non-binary a few years ago, but it wasn't made clear what it meant. It wasn't until I read the exact definition of bi-gender that I finally realized I AM trans. Just not the kind the the media shows all the time.
I keep wondering how many older MtFs and FtMs there are out there who are actually non-binary, but end up identifying binary trans because they weren't given the concept as an option "back when."
Quote from: Cailan Jade on March 28, 2017, 08:52:14 PM
I keep wondering how many older MtFs and FtMs there are out there who are actually non-binary, but end up identifying binary trans because they weren't given the concept as an option "back when."
The concept didn't exist back then and I suspect they fell into the transition failure category. They either had surgery and regretted it, RLE made them realize it wasn't for them or lived as a cross dresser or ->-bleeped-<- which were known at the time. Even today I have worked with bigender/gender fluid people who have been to therapy but the therapist couldn't figure out what was going on.
Then again, I suspect many people out there don't feel right but really don't understand what it is until something external causes their mind to click. In my case, I understood what I felt but it took a newspaper article to give it a name and me a direction.
From my research, non-binary trans was a known thing in the psych world as early as the 1970s, but it wasn't acknowledged because at that time they were only dealing with MtFs, and a few FtMs, and to get treatment you also had to be sexually interested only in the opposite sex of your target gender to even get HRT. The Harry Benjamin gatekeeping rules were ridiculous and homophobic. It's hard to believe WPATH kept them going until 2004.
I keep hearing many of these gatekeeping rules are still used today in "progressive" European countries. Oy.
The standards I was treated under didn't place restrictions on sexual preference. The senior member of the group were involved in producing the standards that proceeded WPATH so it was possible to be treated without worrying about sexual attraction in many gender programs.
You are correct that some countries still have gate keeping and some of the members have told stories about this.
Quote from: theqnoumenon on March 25, 2017, 04:39:22 PM
Well, the answer to that question is impossible, but what if you reverse it? If there's no transition, what if in a few years you regret not transitioning? If you are happy with your new body, as said before, go for it!
It's the folks who don't understand that messes with my mind.
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Quote from: Mikka55 on March 29, 2017, 06:06:05 PM
It's the folks who don't understand that messes with my mind.
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You are doing this for yourself and not somebody else. Their approval isn't required and once you understand that, you are able to make the best decision for you. Attempting to please other will greatly delay coming to peace with yourself.
Quote from: Dena on March 29, 2017, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Mikka55 on March 29, 2017, 06:06:05 PM
It's the folks who don't understand that messes with my mind.
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You are doing this for yourself and not somebody else. Their approval isn't required and once you understand that, you are able to make the best decision for you. Attempting to please other will greatly delay coming to peace with yourself.
Dena beat me to it. That's the truth ^^^ right there.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 29, 2017, 07:25:33 PM
You are doing this for yourself and not somebody else. Their approval isn't required and once you understand that, you are able to make the best decision for you. Attempting to please other will greatly delay coming to peace with yourself.
Dena beat me to it. That's the truth ^^^ right there.
Hugs, Devlyn
Some Universal Truths are far easier said then done. Especially when you were either A) Teased unmercifully. B) Beaten up on, or C) All of the above, for being different. Scars from childhood tend not to fade with time, even 50 or more years later.
Sorry folks just bare with me. I know we have gone through this topic 1000 times. Lets go back to basics... What is transgender and what is transexual. If I can transition ill be mtf... but I can also be non binary right? no gender to female. But definitely not male. I don't feel I need to show my non gender side because i don't mind actually being viewed as female even on no gender days. I want to say im 80% comfortable being Mikka even on non gender days. So some know I want to transition further to become female.... So that would make me a transsexual?
Or even in the process of transitioning teach shave/ hormones... Can you still be called a transexual? or does it need to be a full transition to be transexusl? please help me out.
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Somebody who is transgender can be either non binary or transsexual. Transsexual is somebody who has a binary view on gender. Somebody who is non binary is somewhere in the middle. Transsexuals desire to change their body to the opposite gender as much as possible however if you are non binary, surgery may still be desirable.
Personally, I was a transsexual because my gender identity is fully feminine. Remaining male held no attraction to me and I have never regretted my decision. As for you, I can't say because I don't know exactly what you feel. It normal to be somewhat confused about where in the spectrum you fit in the early stages but that's why the RLE requirement exist. It gives you time to work with your gender and discover where you really fit into the picture.
Can you still tell people that they are transexual even if they didn't do srs, or in the process of transitioning?
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Some transsexuals don't have surgery because of money issues, medical issues, personal reasons or possibly something else so not have surgery doesn't mean a person isn't transsexual. Transsexual means a person who wants to change their gender so as long as they have the desire, they would remain transsexual. In my case, I am no longer transsexual because I have changed my gender and I no longer have the desire. That is why I refer to me being transsexual in the past tense.
Quote from: Dena on April 04, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
Somebody who is transgender can be either non binary or transsexual. Transsexual is somebody who has a binary view on gender. Somebody who is non binary is somewhere in the middle. Transsexuals desire to change their body to the opposite gender as much as possible however if you are non binary, surgery may still be desirable.
Well, different people have different interpretations of those terms. I call myself a "transsexual" because I want to live as and have a body that is as close as possible to the "opposite" gender from what I was assigned at birth. I call myself "non-binary" because I don't identify as either male or female. "Male" and "female" are, to me, simply different systems of behavior for interacting with other people. In my view, some people identify with one or the other system of behavior, the way people may identify with "American-ness" or with being a Yankees fan. And some people don't.
You could call my view of gender "binary," in that society only has two such systems of behavior. But they are social constructs, like language or laws. Gender, as I experience it, is something society has developed and teaches us (starting at or before birth), not a biological fact (although biological factors are involved.)
Quote from: Mikka55 on April 04, 2017, 11:37:36 PM
Can you still tell people that they are transexual even if they didn't do srs, or in the process of transitioning?
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Absolutely not. It's never all right to tell someone else how they identify.
Quote from: Dena on April 04, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
Somebody who is transgender can be either non binary or transsexual. Transsexual is somebody who has a binary view on gender. Somebody who is non binary is somewhere in the middle. Transsexuals desire to change their body to the opposite gender as much as possible however if you are non binary, surgery may still be desirable.
Personally, I was a transsexual because my gender identity is fully feminine. Remaining male held no attraction to me and I have never regretted my decision. As for you, I can't say because I don't know exactly what you feel. It normal to be somewhat confused about where in the spectrum you fit in the early stages but that's why the RLE requirement exist. It gives you time to work with your gender and discover where you really fit into the picture.
Huh? First I heard of that. ???
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 05, 2017, 02:19:19 PM
Absolutely not. It's never all right to tell someone else how they identify
Sorry they meaning me... Can I still be a transexual... even tho i didn't do srs yet and still in the process of transitioning.
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Quote from: Mikka55 on April 05, 2017, 02:37:42 PM
Sorry they meaning me... Can I still be a transexual... even tho i didn't do srs yet and still in the process of transitioning.
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Works for me. I think if you identify as female on one end of the spectrum.... Yes, you are a transsexual.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Mikka55 on March 23, 2017, 11:32:18 PM
I am asking this question because I am trying to find if I am non-binary, or am I actual mtf trans gender. (Here it goes)...........
Here is my story......
Back in Sept 2016 I decided to transition, and started my transition. At the time I was still new to the trans gender world. I'm still new to it but I'm willing to learn more. At the time I knew I wanted to be a women and actually look like a women FFS, Hormones, and possible SRS, hair removal etc. I already did my tracheal shave and I wanted to do more surgery. If money was no issue and people weren't so judgement and if government paper work took shorter time to process, I want to be a female this instant.
At the time I thought I was non binary gender fluid. Because I wanted to keep my male self so people wouldn't judge me. I wanted a androgynous appearance. After I did some soul searching I may not be Gender Fluid. The reason I say that is because I want to go fulltime female. I don't want to be male, Im male is because its how people sees me, but its not truly how I feel. So all this time have I been lying to myself and others so other people will be happier...
So my question is.......
.Has anyone ever experienced the same feeling as I am right now? Do you feel you are actually the opposite gender, but only say non binary to please other people so you don't risk your job or family?
I know everyone's story is different, im just curious if anyone is experiencing what I am experiencing.
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Hi Mikka,
I identity as nonbinary, but express myself most of the time as female. How you are yourself is separate from how you present.
What surgeries you may or may not pursue is your business and nobody else's.
I am legally and physically female. I've had GCS. It makes life safer when I am abroad, and easier here at home.
But I can be as butch or as femme as I feel and it is not anybody's business but my own.
We have the absolute right to identify as who we are, and acknowledge that that identification is fungible and on a scale, never fixed.
Hope this helps and does not hopelessly muddle things.
JB
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Quote from: JB_Girl on May 10, 2017, 09:44:25 AM
Hi Mikka,
I identity as nonbinary, but express myself most of the time as female. How you are yourself is separate from how you present.
What surgeries you may or may not pursue is your business and nobody else's.
I am legally and physically female. I've had GCS. It makes life safer when I am abroad, and easier here at home.
But I can be as butch or as femme as I feel and it is not anybody's business but my own.
We have the absolute right to identify as who we are, and acknowledge that that identification is fungible and on a scale, never fixed.
Hope this helps and does not hopelessly muddle things.
JB
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Hi Mikka
Just as many of us have shared, the taxonomy that you use to describe yourself is perhaps less important than understanding and expressing yourself. This in itself may prove to be a journey of growth and discovery rather than a swift and direct route to the destination that you perceive or expect as you start your travels.
We are each quite unique, and it is good that the either/or binary strait jacket is increasingly an artefact of the past. For many years while I understood myself to be transgender I thought that my only option as a maab, would be to understand and to declare myself as mtf. This proved to be just as distressing and felt just as much of an 'act' as when I earlier tried to reject and to resist my transgender nature and present as a binary alpha male.
Several years later, having had extensive ffs, transition levels of hrt and found increasing comfort in a more androgynous presentation, I am far more comfortable with my understanding and expression of my non binary nature. Having said this, there is rarely a day that goes by when I do not ponder my final destination or landing point. It is also fair to say that just as I am comfortable with the pronouns they/them, he/him, she/her, I am also comfortable should I end my travels as a fully transitioned mtf in the physical sense, even if I still understand myself as non binary.
Our journey is unique to each of us. Authenticity and honesty are necessary for a successful journey. Perhaps my only counsel would be to listen to yourself, seek counsel from fellow travellers and view this as a voyage of delight and discovery, free from the manacles of genitally assigned birth gender.
Safe travels
Aisla
Quote from: Aisla on June 06, 2017, 08:24:21 PM
Several years later, having had extensive ffs, transition levels of hrt and found increasing comfort in a more androgynous presentation, I am far more comfortable with my understanding and expression of my non binary nature. Having said this, there is rarely a day that goes by when I do not ponder my final destination or landing point. It is also fair to say that just as I am comfortable with the pronouns they/them, he/him, she/her, I am also comfortable should I end my travels as a fully transitioned mtf in the physical sense, even if I still understand myself as non binary.
Our journey is unique to each of us. Authenticity and honesty are necessary for a successful journey. Perhaps my only counsel would be to listen to yourself, seek counsel from fellow travellers and view this as a voyage of delight and discovery, free from the manacles of genitally assigned birth gender.
I for one will call you girlfriend, teacher, and fellow traveler. Over the years Aisla you have been a beacon of insight for me and countless others. Understanding that gender identity need not be static and that gender expression is quite divorced from that was transcendent for me. It feels good to circle back to the beginning and find that truth once again. See you soon sweetie.
JB