I am wondering whether HRT makes our basal metabolic rate decrease down to the level of cis women. If so we certainly should lower our food intake compared to what it was before starting HRT, all other things being equal.
Any opinion, advice or feedback on this subject?
Yes it does change our metabolism, so some things should be changed. Less burgers, more lettuce [emoji13]
Quote from: LiliFee on April 08, 2017, 04:58:28 AM
Yes it does change our metabolism, so some things should be changed. Less burgers, more lettuce [emoji13]
At what point should we make that change? My dietitian that is working with me for weight loss hasn't told me that we needed to adjust for HRT, at least not yet.
But that could be why my weight loss has slowed so much.
Estrogen for me, slowed down my metabolism tremendously. I would say eat 1/2 of what you ate, but keep up your physical activity as usual, You should be ok after that. Before hrt Artesia, if you can, since once on hrt, it will be twice as hard bringing down your weight, my experience.
Quote from: LiliFee on April 08, 2017, 04:58:28 AM
Yes it does change our metabolism, so some things should be changed. Less burgers, more lettuce [emoji13]
Foreal. My body keeps telling me this in more ways than one, and I keep not listening :icon_no:
I actually don't think my metabolic rate has changed much - that is to say, calories out seems about the same. However, how I get those calories makes a huge difference in how I feel physically, emotionally, how well my digestive tract works, even my skin tone is noticeably different (true story! I've had comments!).
If I eat vegetarian I feel like a million bucks. The larger portion of my diet that comes from meat, the worse I feel and function. And I've always been practically carnivorous, so either my taste-buds are like - "wth is this crap" or my body is like "wth is this crap".
I really need to quit eating for pleasure and start forcing myself to eat things I'm not overly fond of the taste/texture of. As it is, I often go for as long as I can without eating, and then get fast food when I feel like it's getting to the causing problems stage. When really I should've just had some damn eggs (or god forbid, fruits and vegetables!) before I left the house.
I suck at being a chick :(
Or an adult. Whichever way you wanna look at it ;D
Quote from: SonadoraXVX on April 08, 2017, 06:58:10 AM
I would say eat 1/2 of what you ate, but keep up your physical activity as usual, You should be ok after that.
1/2 is a lot ! You mean that if your calories intake was e.g. 2500 calories before HRT you would eat 1250 calories only once on HRT ? That's a near-starvation diet !
Eating is chemistry! You need a verities of veg and fruit to power your lower bowels to keep the microorganism healthy! 2500 hundred is a healthy amount to target for. Just try and have your foods more on alkaline side than acidic. Acidic food tends to drive inflammation! Live healthy and happy!
Dr Eric Berg, Nutrition Facts org and (Dr Sircus! YouTube) They have nothing to do with transitioning but only stand to reason that it will be easier to keep your body healthy for transitioning!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Listen to your body and try and eat the right, healthy foods as much as possible. Estradiol, in and of itself, according to the scientific literature, helps keep the weight off the waist while indirectly, through increasing (upregulating) progesterone receptors, increases how much fat is stored in the glutes, thighs, breasts and other regions, this is why women gain so much fat during pregnancy and these are fat stores for the baby, for when the mother will breastfeed. This, at least, is my understanding.
I personally don't adhere to hypocaloric approach as it is frustrating mentally, can be hard to keep up, makes you terribly hungry and tired, irritable and can, over time, rob you of nutrients you need. My 2 cents.
In addition, it's possible too little testosterone can result in excess weight gain so keeping T at a reasonable level *may* help.
Thanks to all of you for your replies.
Quote from: KayXo on April 08, 2017, 07:54:34 AM
I personally don't adhere to hypocaloric approach as it is frustrating mentally, can be hard to keep up, makes you terribly hungry and tired, irritable and can, over time, rob you of nutrients you need. My 2 cents.
As male I should eat 2300 calories, given my height, my weight and my activity rate (according to Mifflin-St Jeor formula). As female I should eat 2000 calories only. However eating 2100 or more calories raises my weight. Eating 2000 calories or less I feel hungry most of the time. I can't believe that 100 calories only can make such a difference. I probably should eat my fill and search for the reason of my weight increase...
QuoteIn addition, it's possible too little testosterone can result in excess weight gain so keeping T at a reasonable level *may* help.
That's might be the reason. The AA I take (bicalutamide) is quite effective and blocks most of my testosterone. Perhaps I should lower my dosage in order to have more active testosterone.
While many people find they lose weight on low carb/high fat, I found it was the opposite for me and upon increasing my carbs, I QUICKLY (a few weeks) lost all the weight I had gained, around 15 lbs. Remains a mystery to me...
Progesterone can also cause weight gain.
Quote from: KayXo on April 08, 2017, 08:30:28 AM
While many people find they lose weight on low carb/high fat, I found it was the opposite for me and upon increasing my carbs, I QUICKLY (a few weeks) lost all the weight I had gained, around 15 lbs. Remains a mystery to me...
How much carbs do you eat each day (on average) ?
Quote
Progesterone can also cause weight gain.
I tried to lower my progesterone dosage but I did not feel well.
Quote from: Lucie on April 08, 2017, 08:38:54 AM
How much carbs do you eat each day (on average) ?
Around 100-200 grams. I once consumed no carbs at all for at least 9 continuous months. This is when I gained most of my weight.
QuoteI tried to lower my progesterone dosage but I did not feel well.
Interestingly, I did too recently and feel BETTER. Taking once daily vs twice daily. No change in weight though, YET and this, despite adding a little testosterone too to my regimen recently.
In theory and in practice don't always match.
Your metabolism my get lower after a time, but it takes a while and it really doesn't get much lower. Last week I averaged 2800 cal per day at 163 lbs and still managed to lose a little weight. (That was about 300 cal more than my plan LOL. I got weak a couple times)
Mostly it's going to depend on what you eat. If you eat a lot of carbs and particularly a lot of sugar you will retain or gain weight easily. If you eat few carbs and a lot of good fat you can eat more without gaining weight and you can easily lose weight. It's not calories in minus calories out but rather the effect that the different macro nutrients have on your hormonal regulation system.
Last week my macro nutrient daily average was 79 g carb with 31 g fiber for 48 g net carbs, 147 g protein, and 217 g fat. The fat was all natural fats with zero manufactured vegetable oils. It came from a variety of sources including meat, fish, eggs, butter, nuts, cheese, avocados, olive oil, and coconut oil.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
MtF HRT does tend to lower metabolic rate in many people. I have gone from over 2000 kcal/day to 1470 kcal/day to hold my weight steady, but that is just my particular case.
Ultimately, you need to adjust your food intake to YOUR individual needs. I doubt that at a fine level of detail any two of us has identical responses and metabolic needs.
I use an app (MyFitnessPal) to track everything I eat, and monitor my activity with gadgetry. That's how I found that I needed my particular base food intake to hold MY weight steady. I do adjust my intake slightly when I am exerting myself.
It raised my metabolism.
. . . and yet another reason it's great to be trans. We are way more weight conscious (healthier) than the general public.! :)
. . . and we don't smoke. Mostly.
Quote from: Deborah on April 08, 2017, 11:12:24 AM
Your metabolism my get lower after a time, but it takes a while and it really doesn't get much lower. Last week I averaged 2800 cal per day at 163 lbs and still managed to lose a little weight. (That was about 300 cal more than my plan LOL. I got weak a couple times)
Mostly it's going to depend on what you eat. If you eat a lot of carbs and particularly a lot of sugar you will retain or gain weight easily. If you eat few carbs and a lot of good fat you can eat more without gaining weight and you can easily lose weight. It's not calories in minus calories out but rather the effect that the different macro nutrients have on your hormonal regulation system.
Last week my macro nutrient daily average was 79 g carb with 31 g fiber for 48 g net carbs, 147 g protein, and 217 g fat. The fat was all natural fats with zero manufactured vegetable oils. It came from a variety of sources including meat, fish, eggs, butter, nuts, cheese, avocados, olive oil, and coconut oil.
I am on a ketogenic diet (< 30g carbs, 65-85g proteins, 170-200g fats) with mostly animal proteins and fats, organic as far as possible. I have been on this diet since the beginning of my transition, which one I started 19 months ago. I lost 2 kg during the first 3 months, and then my weight remained stable until last december. Then, I started to regain some weight and my belly is no longer as flat as it was previously :-(. It's strange because nothing at all has changed either in my diet or in my hrt. My daily intake was 2300 calories on average until the end of March. Since that time I have decreased my intake to 2000 calories. It's too early to tell whether this decrease had the expected effect on my weight. But I don't feel as well now as I did when I ate 2300 calories/day (more anxious, more tired).
I must tell that my mind is presently very busy with choosing a surgeon and getting a date for my srs on one side, and with the official change of my first names on civil registrars and renewing of all my personal documents (this is quite complicated and cumbersome in my country) on an other side. Perhaps the stress that these worries produces on me plays a role in having my weight unstable, who knows?
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on April 08, 2017, 11:51:59 AM
It raised my metabolism.
Angélique, how did you know that your metabolism has raised ?
Quote from: Jane Emily on April 08, 2017, 12:09:24 PM
. . . and yet another reason it's great to be trans. We are way more weight conscious (healthier) than the general public.! :)
I'd rather say that being trans and being on hormonotherapy is a good reason to have a healthy lifestyle. ;)
Quote. . . and we don't smoke. Mostly.
For my part I have not been smoking for 31 years.
Quote from: Lucie on April 08, 2017, 04:40:25 AM
I am wondering whether HRT makes our basal metabolic rate decrease down to the level of cis women. If so we certainly should lower our food intake compared to what it was before starting HRT, all other things being equal.
Any opinion, advice or feedback on this subject?
The amount of food you should need daily is still going to depend primarily on your body mass provided your thyroid is in healthy order. I noticed metabolic changes from HRT, but it's the body size vs intake you need to watch really since you can offset slower metabolism by being more active. You will need to adjust for your own circumstance and goals.
Quote from: Kylo on April 08, 2017, 03:11:10 PM
The amount of food you should need daily is still going to depend primarily on your body mass provided your thyroid is in healthy order.
That's right. I'll have a thyroid check-up next month. Hopefully they will find nothing of concern.
I used to weigh 297lbs. I now weigh 220. I still eat mostly the same. The changes I made were smaller portions, iced Tea with a Splenda instead of soda's. I limit treats to just one serving a day. Instead of eating a bag of cookies I eat 1 serving.I limit carbs by cutting out bread. I use olive oil wherever And I eat before 6 pM.
Without a doubt my metabolism has changed. My intake has gone down and my weight has remained the overall the same, but it has taken consistent attention.
Quote from: Kylo on April 08, 2017, 03:11:10 PM
you can offset slower metabolism by being more active.
I am not sure of that. There is scientific evidence that exercising indeed
slows down basal metabolism, especially for overweight people.
Being more active will just require you to eat more as you need more to replace the lost energy. If you don't, you will be fatigued and feel lousy.
Exercise is great for improving health and building fitness. But it is not the way to control bodyfat and weight. That is all diet.
Exercising by itself will not slow metabolism. However, when combined with the typical low calorie low fat diet that nearly everyone uses for weight loss the metabolism will slow down to preserve itself.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Quote from: Deborah on April 09, 2017, 11:10:33 AM
Exercising by itself will not slow metabolism.
That's not what science tells us (see Volek and Phinney's book: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance).
Low carbohydrate training will shift the body's primary fuel source from glucose to fat. That's what I've been doing for the past six weeks. I have read that book also. This is what I got from it.
QuoteSports Implications The direct metabolic benefits of keto-adaptation translate into two general effects relevant to most athletes.
Improved body composition (power-to-weight ratio).
Improved prolonged endurance performance resulting from better sustained fuel delivery.
However, as you said the book also states.
QuoteAlthough genetically lean people as a group may respond differently, when overweight humans do more than one hour of endurance exercise daily, resting metabolism on average declines between 5 and 15%.
I was not aware of that and didn't remember reading it.
From that, and other sources I've read, I've come to believe that one can minimize any metabolism reduction during weight loss, either with or without exercise, using a very low carbohydrate diet. There is a long explanation behind that but it amounts to a lesser reduction in overall calorie intake combined with the body's ready access to stored energy (fat). The result is that the internal hormonal regulation systems do not get signaled that there is a famine underway and it therefore doesn't need to do whatever it can to preserve energy. So the metabolism theoretically remains elevated.
So, the lesson learned is that weight loss is a result of diet and that one should exercise for health and fitness but not for weight loss. Pick a sport or exercise because you enjoy it.
There was a time about four years ago when I was running 10 to 15 miles a day and lifting heavy weights three times a week. A lot of exercise; too much in fact. During that time I gained nearly eight pounds. I also crashed my endocrine system. That took nearly a year to recover from but it was a catalyst to face this trans thing head on instead of once again trying to hide from it through exercise induced exhaustion.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Quote from: Deborah on April 09, 2017, 12:34:53 PM
So, the lesson learned is that weight loss is a result of diet and that one should exercise for health and fitness but not for weight loss. Pick a sport or exercise because you enjoy it.
I totally agree.
As for me, I do not exercise and I am not overweight. I just try to understand before my next appointment with my endo why I've gained some weight (though moderately) during the last three months whereas nothing has changed either in my calories intake, my hrt or my activity rate, and to what extent the feminization process is involved in that weight increase.
My doctor told me years ago "if you need to exercise to lose weight, you're doing it wrong "
I believe it is the consistent caloric deficit that messes with your metabolism, not diet , not exercise.
~Brooke~
Quote from: Brooke on April 09, 2017, 01:49:54 PM
I believe it is the consistent caloric deficit that messes with your metabolism, not diet , not exercise.
What caloric deficit are you talking about ?
Quote from: Lucie on April 09, 2017, 01:56:35 PM
What caloric deficit are you talking about ?
The consistent caloric deficit typically associated with dieting. Where in a daily basis your intaking less calories than what is needed to sustain your current weight/bodily functions. In almost all cases (besides a ketogenic diet or fasting) when you go on a diet that includes reducing calories weight loss becomes more difficult as your body's metabolism slows down in order to compensate for less caloric intake.
Why most dieters get to a point of equilibrium. They've reduced the energy intake and/or increased their energy output and the body attempts to maintain homeostasis. Why even though your doing really well in sticking to your diet and exercise you end up in a weight loss plateau.
It's also the reason that contestants in the biggest loser often have to eat 30% less than somebody else who was never overweight that has their same bmi. The extreme dieting, and cardio slowed down their metabolism indefinitely, possibly for life.
When you fast, your body releases counter regulatory hormones, specifically norepinephrine (maintains or increases your metabolism) and growth hormone (tells your body to lay down lean mass when you do eat again, rather than storing that energy as fat.
Because the ketogenic diet mimics fasting, (both force your body to run off of fat rather than sugar) your metabolism acts in a similar fashion, even if you have a caloric daily deficit.
~Brooke~
A diet is a way of managing one's food intake. It dos not imply in any way a caloric deficit. A ketogenic diet is not based on calories deficit but on a low carb intake. As for me, my calories intake has been so far greater than what I am supposed to eat according to a standard western diet. And I must recall that I am not trying to loose weight.
Quote from: Lucie on April 09, 2017, 03:32:46 PM
A diet is a way of managing one's food intake. It dos not imply in any way a caloric deficit. A ketogenic diet is not based on calories deficit but on a low carb intake. As for me, my calories intake has been so far greater than what I am supposed to eat according to a standard western diet. And I must recall that I am not trying to loose weight.
No arguments from me there.
I was simply trying to clarify the context of caloric restriction. When I think of someone going on a diet I think of weight loss in the vast majority of cases.
Though you are definitely correct. A diet does not necessarily equate to a caloric deficit or weight loss goal.
My apologies
~Brooke~
I've found the best way is don't think of it as a diet - it's a budget. Ignoring that can be fun momentarily but has consequences. 100 calories can add up just like any other budget item.